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I just wish they were a little more unified. I get that Zeta is about a civil war, but I feel that the Titans having a more distinct look would still be to the show's merit, giving them a clear, iconic identity. You can instantly tell what's a Zeon suit, or an OZ suit, or a Gjallarhorn suit, or a Zanscare one, and it both makes the fight scenes easier to parse and gives them more personality as a faction. Having the Titans use more intimidating Federation designs (with the loyalists using friendlier ones) and the AEUG using more heroic Zeon designs would fit pretty well.
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Oct 9, 2016 23:24
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Darth Walrus posted:I just wish they were a little more unified. I get that Zeta is about a civil war, but I feel that the Titans having a more distinct look would still be to the show's merit, giving them a clear, iconic identity. You can instantly tell what's a Zeon suit, or an OZ suit, or a Gjallarhorn suit, or a Zanscare one, and it both makes the fight scenes easier to parse and gives them more personality as a faction. Having the Titans use more intimidating Federation designs (with the loyalists using friendlier ones) and the AEUG using more heroic Zeon designs would fit pretty well. The thing about all the factions you mentioned (with the possible exception of Gjallarhorn, which I'm not familiar with) is that they all have a particular facility manufacturing suits directly for them and only them. In Zeta, Anaheim Electronics is creating MSs that they sell to both sides, and if they create something for the Titans that they end up not wanting then they'll alter it slightly and turn around and sell it to the AEUG, and vice versa.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:52
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A friend of mine confirmed that kuboTEN is a working parts replacement order for Bandai kits. There's a 1700 yen fee right off the bat though, and EMS shipping is pretty pricey at ~2000 yen. SAL is much cheaper though. Turnaround time for my friend was 3-4 weeks, but apparently that was because Bandai drags their feet on making the parts. And honestly that's still miles better than the agonizing wait of Gentei Parts.
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Oct 10, 2016 05:33
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Son Ryo posted:The thing about all the factions you mentioned (with the possible exception of Gjallarhorn, which I'm not familiar with) is that they all have a particular facility manufacturing suits directly for them and only them. In Zeta, Anaheim Electronics is creating MSs that they sell to both sides, and if they create something for the Titans that they end up not wanting then they'll alter it slightly and turn around and sell it to the AEUG, and vice versa. CCA also had Anaheim arming both sides, and the differences were extremely visible. That also doesn't explain the massive variation in designs between Titan suits - if you're making the argument that both sides have similar stuff because of Anaheim, that implies a specific Anaheim 'look', much like the specific OZ look that most suits had in Wing. Instead, there's a total confused hodgepodge, which works well for the rag-tag AEUG but not for the Earth Federation's renegade elite.
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Oct 10, 2016 06:53
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Zeta/ZZ was basically engineers trying all sorts of new poo poo constantly because they had the budget and there was a need. That's why there was that whole technological arms race from movable frame to wing binders to transformations, and then repeated attempts to add more thrusters or more guns or more whatever. I like to think it all eventually culminates in the lovable mess that is the ZZ.
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Oct 10, 2016 07:13
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BlitzBlast posted:Zeta/ZZ was basically engineers trying all sorts of new poo poo constantly because they had the budget and there was a need. So was the original show, though, and Zeon still had a tighter aesthetic than the Titans.
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Oct 10, 2016 08:46
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The biggest innovation Zeon had to deal with was beam weapons, and to begin with they were all based on one colony so you'd expect consistency.
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Oct 10, 2016 08:50
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I thought the reason the Anaheim suits were so disparate in Zeta was that it's essentially a new company that's made up of the OYW feddie mobile suit efforts, plus all the personnel poached from both of the Zeon mobile suit companies. Given that Zeta only takes place eight years after the OYW, it's not surprising that Anaheim is a bit of a mess and probably still has a bunch of different development teams and manufacturing pipelines within the company putting out feddie-esque and zeon-esque and inbetween suits at the same time, as it presumably still retains the entire design-to-manufacturing pipelines of at least three different companies. Skip ahead to ZZ and CCA, Anaheim has wizened up to the fact that there's still a market for distinctly feddie and zeon style suits because those conflicts are still going on and so it's making these two distinct lines of products, but during Zeta they think the war with Zeon is over for good, so they're just making "mobile suits" that look all over the place.
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Oct 10, 2016 11:46
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The point of ZZ is that it gave us Dreissen, Zaku III and Doven Wolf. I'm grateful for this.
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Oct 10, 2016 14:09
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BlitzBlast posted:A friend of mine confirmed that kuboTEN is a working parts replacement order for Bandai kits. Still hosed for P-Bandai parts, huh? 
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Oct 10, 2016 20:07
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Actually, if you have the manual code it should theoretically work. I know someone on Gaijin Gunpla who's testing it out with the PG Banshee Armed Armor bits.
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Oct 10, 2016 20:43
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Red Bones posted:I thought the reason the Anaheim suits were so disparate in Zeta was that it's essentially a new company that's made up of the OYW feddie mobile suit efforts, plus all the personnel poached from both of the Zeon mobile suit companies. Given that Zeta only takes place eight years after the OYW, it's not surprising that Anaheim is a bit of a mess and probably still has a bunch of different development teams and manufacturing pipelines within the company putting out feddie-esque and zeon-esque and inbetween suits at the same time, as it presumably still retains the entire design-to-manufacturing pipelines of at least three different companies. Skip ahead to ZZ and CCA, Anaheim has wizened up to the fact that there's still a market for distinctly feddie and zeon style suits because those conflicts are still going on and so it's making these two distinct lines of products, but during Zeta they think the war with Zeon is over for good, so they're just making "mobile suits" that look all over the place. Yeah, the suits in Zeta feel like the results of a sort of Operation Paperclip thing where they're eager to combine Zeon and Federation design ideas with all the scientists and engineers they've nabbed and then you get to ZZ/CCA where they completely separate out the lines agai.
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Oct 10, 2016 21:43
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Everything being mixed up and weird post oyw is great and a nice detail. A series like gundam that has some focus on the "bad guy" being ambiguous of course they arent gonna have super clear lines. Im not even the biggest fan of zeta and i was always really impressed that the feddies were using zeon derived suits and these splinter groups were using jacked gundam tech. The titans are also like, not a super martial group in a classical sense and having them easily identifiable by their genocidal weapons (gas, super laser) instead of their robots is probably OK
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Oct 10, 2016 22:03
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EthanSteele posted:Yeah, the suits in Zeta feel like the results of a sort of Operation Paperclip thing where they're eager to combine Zeon and Federation design ideas with all the scientists and engineers they've nabbed and then you get to ZZ/CCA where they completely separate out the lines agai. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think Haman's Neo Zeon was buying from Anaheim, I think they were manufacturing their own mobile suits. At least, I don't remember seeing any references to it in the show.
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Oct 11, 2016 02:44
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You are correct. The Gaza-C was Neo Zeon construction equipment converted into janky rear end MS, for instance.
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Oct 11, 2016 02:55
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The Vidar is a really imaginative take on the IBO Gundam concept, and it looks like the 1/100 will be doing it the justice it deserves. What makes Post Disaster Gundams special is the enormous power output they get from their twin reactors, and every one we've seen leverages that to mount thick armour and/or huge weapons. The Vidar has even more strength available thanks to what appears to be a third reactor, but its equipment uses none of it. The armour is well-placed but utterly minimalist (and the plates seem to have slits in them to further reduce their weight), and the weapons consist of a standard rifle, two dinky little pistols, and a duelling epee so fragile that it comes with five backup blades. It can probably deliver some obscenely vicious kicks with those folding blades on its feet, but that's about it. It's an incredibly specialised design, sacrificing all of the frame's advantages in durability and strength and dedicating itself exclusively to overwhelming speed, agility, and precision. It should be really cool to see in action. As for the kit, I really like that they decided to individually model all the spare blades. They didn't have to, and it's some nice attention to detail.
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Oct 12, 2016 01:33
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I've checked the western options for P Bandai and I don't see a pre-order option for Heavyarms so where do you usually go to pre-order P Bandai stuff?
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Oct 12, 2016 01:54
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Darth Walrus posted:The Vidar is a really imaginative take on the IBO Gundam concept, and it looks like the 1/100 will be doing it the justice it deserves. It still looks like a really imaginative take on Attack on Titan to me  .
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Oct 12, 2016 01:58
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Mad Lupine posted:I've checked the western options for P Bandai and I don't see a pre-order option for Heavyarms so where do you usually go to pre-order P Bandai stuff? Middlemen. Samueldecal on Facebook has good prices, but you've probably already missed your shot at it. That leaves you with random places across the net from Gentei Kits (overpriced) to GG Infinite (really overpriced) to eBay (it depends). After release, you can typically find it on mandarake for reasonable pre-shipping prices at least. I usually get my P-Bandai stuff on eBay.
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Oct 12, 2016 02:19
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So I'm putting together my first Master Grade (Tallgeese), and what's really surprised me is the lack of snap-fits in the kit. I was expecting the armor to be easily removable, but basically every color separated part is very simple to detach, which will make detailing it waaaaaay easier. Is this common for most quality MG's, or is this one an outlier?
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Oct 12, 2016 02:20
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Oddly enough, it does depend on the effort of the kit but not in the way you'd think. Really high end MGs with tons of effort tend to have much tighter fittings that make disassembly a pain without peg trimming, which regular MGs (especially ones that reuse a generic frame) are very simple to disassemble.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:09
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http://www.gundam.info/content/1734 jakldfmadfiafoijnafdjafonkmdmkla;fMDAF 
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Oct 12, 2016 06:09
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I'll believe it when I see it.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:47
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I'm imagining the MG ZZ will have some kind of ridiculous structural flaw, like it's too back-heavy and when it starts tipping over backwards the whole combiner will just split apart.
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Oct 12, 2016 08:50
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Red Bones posted:I'm imagining the MG ZZ will have some kind of ridiculous structural flaw, like it's too back-heavy and when it starts tipping over backwards the whole combiner will just split apart. I don't care what flaws it has. I just want a MG Tryon 3 to result from this somehow, even if it's a third party conversion kit. Also Zeta Gundam can piss off with that 0.1 percent lead over God Gundam.
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Oct 12, 2016 09:00
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Red Bones posted:I'm imagining the MG ZZ will have some kind of ridiculous structural flaw, like it's too back-heavy and when it starts tipping over backwards the whole combiner will just split apart.  The Enhanced ZZ specifically lengthens the feet just so that won't happen, and the ZZ's backpack isn't nearly as heavy as the bulk of the suit anyways. It'd be pretty weird if a newer MG ZZ couldn't stand up when both of the older ones could do it just fine. No, if there's going to be any problems it's going to be Katoki pulling a V/V2 and insisting on making it fully transforming with no polycaps. Boy I sure can't wait for the ZZ to not be able to hold its weapons... again. EDIT: 
BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 09:07
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When completing ZZ ver. Ka, the kit will instantly collapse into its individual parts and the souls of the designers who were sacrificed to engineer it will let out a terrible moan.
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Oct 12, 2016 09:48
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BlitzBlast posted:EDIT: That's adorable. (I have to admit, I double-taked.)
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Oct 12, 2016 13:13
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Red Bones posted:I'm imagining the MG ZZ will have some kind of ridiculous structural flaw, like it's too back-heavy and when it starts tipping over backwards the whole combiner will just split apart. This structural flaw is called "being the ZZ."
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Oct 12, 2016 14:28
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It still looks like a really imaginative take on Attack on Titan to me I know you're just being flippant here, but this touches on an interesting topic, so I'll chat about it. This really cuts close to the topic of inspiration versus plagiarism, and I'd argue that this sort of comment is unfair because while the Vidar's main weapon is clearly inspired by the swords from Attack on Titan, it alters the design enough and puts it in a different enough context to significantly change its meaning. Consider another Gundam example, beam sabers. They're almost certainly modelled after lightsabers from Star Wars (which aired the year before Mobile Suit Gundam, remember), but serve a very different purpose. In Star Wars, lightsabers are exactly what Obi-Wan calls them, elegant weapons from a more civilised time. They're symbols of how alien the Jedi and the Force are, little gleaming drops of magic in a grimy, cynical world run by science and money rather than mysticism. Gundam, on the other hand, doesn't give beam sabers to little old monks and terrifying dark wizards, but to huge, fantastically powerful war machines. They're expressions of might, ultra-advanced technology designed to emphasise the terrible damage that these monsters can do. Remember the first time Amuro uses one and sets off a nuclear explosion? Yeah. They're the same sort of weapons, more or less, but they've been given distance from each other by their different contexts. Now let's look at the Vidar versus a typical soldier from Attack on Titan. The soldiers of the latter are exactly that - soldiers sent to fight and die against a huge and terrible enemy. The way in which they do this is cool as gently caress, but they're essentially just put-upon, expendable grunts. Their uniforms reflect this - they're halfway between paratroopers and nineteenth-century cavalry officers (both elite, glamorous jobs), but their colour schemes are drab and their ornamentation is minimal. Their gear is extremely plain and functional - the cool-factor comes more from what it does and how it does it than from how it looks. The swords fit into this context as tools of desperation - the huge boxes of disposable blades underline how mighty the enemy the soldiers are facing is, and the box-cutter design is both exotic and brutally functional. The Vidar, on the other hand, is not a soldier. It's a duellist, a swaggering killer blending aristocratic grace with the low cunning of a street brawler. Its armour is minimal and structurally compromised, daring its enemies to land a hit. In a world where everyone else is carrying around the biggest axe, mace, or cannon they can find, its weapons are flashy, showy badges of skill, demonstrations that its pilot can do a lot with a little and will start playing dirty when that doesn't work, from the jauntily phallic Old West-style pistols to the barely-hidden menace of its boot-knives. The sword is transformed by this context from a strange but necessary weapon for a specialised mission into just another way to show off - the pilot wants to play fencer, so they'll damned well do it, even if they have to replace the blade for their skinny little epee every thirty seconds. The recontextualisation is underlined by the design changes - instead of two swords, the Vidar has one, and the hilt design goes from a simple clip-on handle to an elegant little thing with a proper bell guard. This isn't a weapon that the pilot uses because he needs to - it's a weapon that he uses because he can, a tool of humiliation as well as murder. This is another reason I like this Gundam - it conveys a ridiculous amount of personality for its pilot. Mobile suit design is at its best when it says something about the person flying it, and too little of it actually does do that.
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Oct 12, 2016 15:06
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Darth Walrus posted:I know you're just being flippant here, but this touches on an interesting topic, so I'll chat about it. Pretty sure you just put way more thought into the Vidar than the designers did. Also pretty sure Beam Sabers are in Gundam because holy poo poo, let's crib this awesome new thing into our show and put it on a giant robot because gently caress it why not? 
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Oct 12, 2016 15:24
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Pretty sure you just put way more thought into the Vidar than the designers did. Try looking at some of the mechanical designers' interviews. They do actually go into this level of detail. For instance, Naohiro Washio wanted the Barbatos to look like a young warrior, so he gave it much narrower shoulders than most other suits to make it look like a scrawny teenager.
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Oct 12, 2016 15:48
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At least for IBO, I think they did put thought into what the design visually conveys (this is a fast suit, this is a lumbering suit, this suit looks like a scrawny teenager, etc) but little toward actual mechanics. For example the swept back lines of the Vidar's scabbards convey a sense of forward momentum and add to the look of speed, but practically speaking they make no sense, it's a poo poo ton of extra weight just to hold a bunch of swords. Maybe it does double duty as a thruster or something but now you've got some kind of thruster built around three swords pretty much running through its entire width and length. The exposed waist pistons are another example, they give the suits a mechanical, practical feel, but it's just a visual shorthand, not actual mechanicality or practicality, something as small as a nick by a piece of shrapnel on the piston rod could damage the hydraulic seal and disable the suit, unless the pilot can aim and fight with the top half flopping around everywhere on a bum waist.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:48
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Did you know: gigantic two legged walking machines with a profile taller than most buildings aren't very realistic?
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Oct 12, 2016 19:56
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They should give them four legs, so they're lower to the ground and are a more stable platform for firing.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:58
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My biggest beef with the IBO designs is honestly the exposed waist. Yeah, yeah, it's the main distinguishing feature of the timeline but holy poo poo it just looks silly. It was especially bad with the Barbatos' 6th form, where everything got armored up except the waist because ????
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Oct 12, 2016 19:58
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BlitzBlast posted:My biggest beef with the IBO designs is honestly the exposed waist. Yeah, yeah, it's the main distinguishing feature of the timeline but holy poo poo it just looks silly. After the Calamity War, the knowledge of how to put armor on waists was lost.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:48
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Sharkopath posted:Did you know: gigantic two legged walking machines with a profile taller than most buildings aren't very realistic? FYI you're in a thread about making giant robot model kits look realistic.
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Oct 12, 2016 21:09
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Xy Hapu posted:FYI you're in a thread about making giant robot model kits look realistic. is that what this thread is about?
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Oct 12, 2016 21:24
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I sure hope so, otherwise I just wasted 20$ on weathering inks instead of buying much more economical clown make-up
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Oct 12, 2016 21:34
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