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snoremac posted:- Question: Is the Dying God an offshoot of TCG or are they unrelated? The book did point out the difference between the two cults (TCG says he offers salvation after death, DG doesn't), but if they're not related I'm surprised by how little TCG factors into this book. I didn't fully comprehend the events at the temple with Clip midway through.
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Oct 5, 2016 12:35
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anilEhilated posted:IIRC, no. I believe he's some echo of Hairlock. I don't think it's that guy, but I don't know exactly so I'm just gonna drop a link to this wiki page that says its Bellurdan Skullcrusher. Apparently the spoiler is for TTH so go nuts Snoremac.
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Oct 5, 2016 13:06
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Thanks, that clears it up. I thought Aranatha had successfully destroyed Bellurdan at Bastion, so when Clip was possessed I assumed Bellurdan must have just been a lackey of the true Dying God.
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Oct 5, 2016 13:14
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I was almost at the end of that book before I realized those two gods were distinct. I think it will make more sense if I ever reread the series.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:15
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nah much as I love TTH the whole Dying God thing is really weird and unnecessary. I think it's a metaphor for oil wars but I don't think that helps and I don't really loving know.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:39
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Knobb Manwich posted:I don't think it's that guy, but I don't know exactly so I'm just gonna drop a link to this wiki page that says its Bellurdan Skullcrusher. Apparently the spoiler is for TTH so go nuts Snoremac.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:13
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I never thought there'd be scenes from the POV of K'Chain Che'Malle but there are and I love it!
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Oct 6, 2016 02:36
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Mordja posted:I don't know if he's got the range, but Lance Reddick looks the part down to a T. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-ppplQ18qs
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Oct 6, 2016 11:19
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"You're a good friend Shurq. I want to sex you." Between that and his request to Tehol for a big boat and lots of money for food and chickens Ublala Pang is my new fave.
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Oct 7, 2016 10:29
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the Dying God subplot in Toll The Hounds feels like one of the least smoothly integrated tabletop campaign plots in the whole series. i don't love it, i don't hate it. it's just one of the many qualities that makes TtH stand out from the rest of the series. and in a way, it's another pointer back to Gardens of the Moon, when Erikson wasn't quite so concerned with turning his gamed stories into novelistic ones.
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Oct 8, 2016 01:06
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Schmischmenjamin posted:the Dying God subplot in Toll The Hounds feels like one of the least smoothly integrated tabletop campaign plots in the whole series. i don't love it, i don't hate it. it's just one of the many qualities that makes TtH stand out from the rest of the series. and in a way, it's another pointer back to Gardens of the Moon, when Erikson wasn't quite so concerned with turning his gamed stories into novelistic ones.
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Oct 8, 2016 01:37
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It's similar to the Pannion Domin in that respect. The first book foreshadows it as the ultimate villain but then it's introduced and done away with in MoI. I was very surprised by that. It's probably to the series' credit that it's never openly building to an endgame and contains these self-contained plots (or Shaik-like plots that cover a few books) that have their own momentum. You jump into each book never knowing what you're in for and without expectations. ASoIaF is the opposite because by Book 4 you just want everyone to get to the fireworks factory but you have to deal with so much crap in-between. The way that series is structured it could never pull a Midnight Tides. snoremac fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Oct 8, 2016 |
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Oct 8, 2016 02:47
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snoremac posted:It's probably to the series' credit that it's never openly building to an endgame and contains these self-contained plots (or Shaik-like plots that cover a few books) that have their own momentum. You jump into each book never knowing what you're in for and without expectations. ASoIaF is the opposite because by Book 4 you just want everyone to get to the fireworks factory but you have to deal with so much crap in-between. The way that series is structured it could never pull a Midnight Tides. it's funny that you say that, because i see Feast for Crows and its whole bemoaned separation from main plotlines of the first three books almost as an attempt to pull a Midnight Tides. i don't know why Erikson is so much more successful at playing the "important events were happening here too the whole time!" game. maybe it's just what you alluded to here: after a couple books, Malazan readers know to expect a sizable cast of important new characters and settings in each book alongside the familiar faces. maybe it's just that Erikson did it better.
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Oct 8, 2016 03:48
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Schmischmenjamin posted:it's funny that you say that, because i see Feast for Crows and its whole bemoaned separation from main plotlines of the first three books almost as an attempt to pull a Midnight Tides. i don't know why Erikson is so much more successful at playing the "important events were happening here too the whole time!" game. maybe it's just what you alluded to here: after a couple books, Malazan readers know to expect a sizable cast of important new characters and settings in each book alongside the familiar faces. maybe it's just that Erikson did it better. Yeah. I'm still stunned by how well Midnight Tides works. New characters and settings can grate so easily in fiction, but here it's not only great (it's my favourite book of the series) but it hooked me in so quickly. Same with the start of House of Chains. He's really good at it. The Redmask stuff in Reaper's Gale is the only thing that felt like plodding overkill to me. I think Tides works while Crows doesn't because Storm of Swords ends with characters heading towards explicitly defined endgames while House of Chains only vaguely explains or doesn't explain where anyone is headed. So the reader's expectations are working on different levels. snoremac fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Oct 8, 2016 |
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Oct 8, 2016 04:47
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Erikson can write and Martin can't. No need to complicate beyond that really.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:39
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Martin can write half a story really well!
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Oct 10, 2016 14:45
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Jesus gently caress Hetan's hobbling 
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Oct 11, 2016 19:36
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snoremac posted:Martin can write half a story really well!
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Oct 11, 2016 19:43
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Captain_Person posted:Jesus gently caress Hetan's hobbling That's definitely the roughest part in the series. Ugh.
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Oct 11, 2016 22:08
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Captain_Person posted:Jesus gently caress Hetan's hobbling yeah. i still don't know quite how i feel about that scene. Erikson made a good point (i think in the Tor reread Q&A?) about how that kind of thing happened in history and to not include it would be to turn his narrative face away from suffering, which would go against the whole point of the series. but at the same time, isn't that just the same old tired excuse used by any fantasy writer who has included something seriously upsetting in a story? granted, i think Erikson wears the excuse better than some, but even so.
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Oct 11, 2016 22:59
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HOLY poo poo I just connected that the T'lan on the Silandah was the same one that showed when Hellian was on guard duty . God drat it these series. Also loved remembering how we learn about the Silandah in reverse order.
turboraton fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 07:49
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Yeah I love how it keeps returning to it throughout the series and makes the initial weirdness clear over time. The coolest thing is learning Karsa is largely responsible.
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Oct 12, 2016 08:45
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snoremac posted:Yeah I love how it keeps returning to it throughout the series and makes the initial weirdness clear over time. The coolest thing is learning Karsa is largely responsible. Malazan book of the fallen: Karsa did it.
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Oct 12, 2016 11:51
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Tgc: I would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling teblor 
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Oct 12, 2016 13:12
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turboraton posted:HOLY poo poo I just connected that the T'lan on the Silandah was the same one that showed when Hellian was on guard duty . God drat it these series. Also loved remembering how we learn about the Silandah in reverse order. On my third reread now (first only 5 books were out, second 8 were out, so will be my first full read-through) and this has been one of my favourite things in coming back to books I've read before. Given that each book tends to have half a dozen plot strands that are all impressively woven together in a final convergance, the fact that the series itself also has these loose threads that build through all the books is pretty cool. I don't know if they have a pay-off on par with the climax of individual books, but even if they don't I'm just digging the jigsaw puzzle nature of it.
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Oct 12, 2016 14:21
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Gravy Jones posted:On my third reread now (first only 5 books were out, second 8 were out, so will be my first full read-through) and this has been one of my favourite things in coming back to books I've read before. I'm on my third full re-read. Looking forward to connecting even more stuff that I missed! Gets better every time.
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Oct 13, 2016 11:34
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I started reading the next series after TCG came out, the one about the Tiste (can't remember off the top of my head what it was called) but it's just so boring to me. What happened to him writing a series about Karsa trying to destroy the world?
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Oct 14, 2016 16:11
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I finished Dust of Dreams last night and goddamn I'm excited for The Crippled God. I'm leaving for the airport soon so I don't have the time for an effort-post but: - I really loved the slow, quiet focus on all of the soldiers throughout the book. It's been one of my favourite parts throughout the series and it was at it's best here. - Draconus appearing is possibly one of the most badass moments in the entire series so far. - Telorast and Curdle again! I love those two little shits, although looking at the cast list for TCG it doesn't look like my dream of seeing them, Apsal'ara and Not-Apsalar is going to happen. - Toc forcing Tool to turn back from a peaceful end was heartbreaking. Why does Steven Erikson always try so hard to break my heart? - Gesler and Stormy leading an army of K'Chain Che'malle was ridiculously badass, although I couldn't get the image of Ampelas Unrooted as a budget 70s Doctor Who prop out of my head which I found hilarious. And predictions: - Everything is going to go badly. - Karsa will own, and will witness the Bonehunters where nobody else does. - Magic is going to be irrevocably changed by the end of the series, but I have no idea how that's going to happen. - The Crippled God is getting Shield Anvil'd so hard.
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Oct 14, 2016 20:48
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Headline on BBC News today:quote:Giant jade stone uncovered in Myanmar 
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Oct 16, 2016 16:26
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Just got back into Gardens of the Moon: Kruppe is The Eel! That's so loving cool! Best character ever! The nobility cull is immoral and creepy but very genre-savvy of the Malazans. How many epic fantasy series are, at their core simplistic tales of Good vs. Evil that cover it up by saddling the 'good guys' with a bunch of corrupt and shortsighted nobles. Adjunct Lorn's thing where her 'mask is starting to crack'; Not buying it. She seems like any character tasked with something both stupid and psychotic, but is duty-bounded enough to go along with it. Could probably show it to a feminist and get back quite a long rant about her, honestly.
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Oct 17, 2016 04:53
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I don't care much for Lorn but her dinner showdown with Tattersail was a very tense scene.
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Oct 17, 2016 08:22
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This is it. After ten months, I’m down to the final two chapters of the series. I’m taking a break from reading tonight, so that I can sit down on Friday night and finish it in one sitting. I feel like I’m right at the point where everything is going to kick in all at once, and I know if I start the next chapter now I won’t be able to tear myself away. And I really need to sleep tonight - finishing Toll the Hounds at 3:00 a.m. wrecked me. Plus this gives me time to prepare myself for the ending. What's really remarkable about The Crippled God is just how brilliant and vast this final convergence is. Every book in the series has a bucket of plot strands that each come together by the end, and not only does each book very definitively finish, but they all still work towards this final ending. It's awe-inspiring writing and I cannot begin to comprehend just how much planning and preparation must have gone into pulling this off. And while some parts of this book seem like they've come out of nowhere, on reflection they were set up several thousand pages earlier, which is going to make eventually rereading the series an absolute joy. Even plots with seemingly little setup (like the Tiste Liosan's dragon-fueled assault on the Shore) still have some backstory to them, somewhere in the series. And the big moments as well - I only recently realised that the reason the Bonehunters suffered so much throughout the series against such unimaginable odds is because they ultiamtely end up fighting for the Crippled God. And just as brilliant is the fact that I have no idea how this is going to end. I have some ideas, but the series goes against what you expect so much that the ending feels impossible to predict. There's no easily-identifiable win condition, no deux ex machina to neatly tie everything off - everything is up in the air. But Erikson still gives you just enough to work with, that whatever happens will be a perfectly natural conclusion. It's also really remarkable to read a series that has compassion as one of its strongest themes. Taking what could be a very typical fantasy end boss and making freeing him and ending his suffereing the end goal? And going through so much suffering yourself just to have a change of achieving that? I don't think I've ever read anything else that does this, and it's a wonderful message to read. One minor criticism I do have with Erikson's writing is his habit of starting new scenes and going several paragraphs before mention who the viewpoint is of. Sometimes, he gives you enough contextual clues to figure it out, but more often than not he opens with philisophical musings that mean I generally skip ahead to see who is talking, and then backtrack to start the scene properly. Also there hasn’t been nearly enough Karsa. But overall, it's been one hell of an experience and I have nothing but praise and amazement to offer. So here's one last set of my favourte moments from TCG so far: - “He was not a modest man. Contemplating suicide, he summoned a dragon.” - Shadowthrone ranting about his mother. - Tehol’s letter to his brother. - The marines getting a resupply of munitions. And some predictions for the final few hundred pages: - Mappo is going to find Icarium just in time to say goodbye. They’re both going to die together, but the new warrens will continue one without him. - Tavore is going to come face-to-face with Ganoes. It’s going to be very awkward for them both. - Hellian will find something to drink. Somehow. - Brys will die. And at least twenty other named characters. - Karsa is going to get into a fight with Hood. This is a (mostly) silly guess, but I really want to see this happen. - Korabas is going to die at a really inconvenient moment for every magic user. Quick Ben will be pissed. - Teloras and Curdle are going to find new skeletons, and immediately start fighting each other. Hell, they’re probably going to take Silchas Ruin and Tulas Shorn’s skeletons. - Torrent will help Onos T’oolan take down Olar Ethil, and Toc the Younger will show up to take Tool away. - All the Elder Gods will either be dead or completely removed from play. Mael is already dead after his gift to the Bonehunters. - The Crippled God will be set free, but will inadvertently cause havoc when he is. He'll then be embraced, maybe by the Bonehunters as a whole. - Shadowthrone and Cotillion will be satisfied with the outcome of everything that is happening, but it won't be exactly how they envisioned it. They'll wander off back into the Azath Houses to look for something more, leaving Shadow empty for now. - The dead Bridgeburners will ride forth one final time. - We’ll hear Fiddler play one final time. - I am going to cry
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Oct 20, 2016 01:15
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Haven't read any of the Esslemont books but Dancer's Lament. And I really liked it. Should I dive into his books or is DL just a product of Kellanved and Cotillion being awesome?
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Oct 21, 2016 17:23
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If you enjoyed DL, you'll probably enjoy the bunch.
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Oct 21, 2016 17:33
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saviro posted:Haven't read any of the Esslemont books but Dancer's Lament. And I really liked it. Should I dive into his books or is DL just a product of Kellanved and Cotillion being awesome? Dancer's Lament is definitely the best of the ICE books, the others vary from enjoyable to boring. Most would benefit from at least three fewer POVs.
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Oct 21, 2016 17:51
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Be warned that Night of Knives is garbage.
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Oct 21, 2016 17:57
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Erikson really likes dual-class Assassin/High Mages Are those really good in GRUPS?
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Oct 23, 2016 02:38
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Monocled Falcon posted:Erikson really likes big women Are those really good in GRUPS?  But uh there aren't many over the series. Actual High Mages are very rare. Most assassins are either without magic entirely, dudes with a little bit of magic that pairs well with being an assassin (either trained or untrained), or are in organised units with mages supporting them. I'm assuming you're still reading Gardens, which is very heavy on sneaky magic dudes. In later books there's a fantastic rampage by an assassin that scorns magic taking on a bunch of hybrid class punks and loving them in the ear. e: the great part about that rampage is it very clearly shows how sloppy people who depend on magic for a leg up can get
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Oct 23, 2016 10:23
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My memory retention with this series is bad. I just moved house and didn't touch Dust of Dreams much in the last few weeks and can barely remember who half these characters are. The Barghast are quite filthy people. In MoI the Barghast women were all freely having sex but this hobbling stuff is quite unsavory. I'm 54% in and my favourite part so far is when that Perish commander completely cuts through Chancellor Rava's bullshit. snoremac fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 15:51
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In the previous post I'd only read of hobbling as a custom. I just reached the actual hobbling. I assume that's what Captain Person expressed dismay over in that spoilered post. The Malazans should never have sided with these jerks!
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Oct 29, 2016 07:19
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