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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I'm not sure how old you are but I remember Bay's movies in the 90's and the extent of the criticism back then was a mix of "oh gee, that's a lot of pyrotechnics" and a couple nerds on the internet quoting the Bad Astronomy page about how Armageddon isn't scientifically accurate. http://michaelbay.com/articles/the-mere-mention-of-his-name-is-enough-to-make-movie-critics-hiss-and-groan/ Here is an article, on Michael Bay's own website, whiche discusses his reputation and how critics consider him the devil and he has a reputation for just being empty flash. This is from the release of The Island, two years before Transfomers came out. So yes, his reputation long predates Transformers.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:07
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ImpAtom posted:http://michaelbay.com/articles/the-mere-mention-of-his-name-is-enough-to-make-movie-critics-hiss-and-groan/ And maybe if you actually read the text of it instead of scanning the headline on google and rushing to touchdown post it you'd realize that the article is a lot more in line with what I'm saying than what you are.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:13
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:And maybe if you actually read the text of it instead of scanning the headline on google and rushing to touchdown post it you'd realize that the article is a lot more in line with what I'm saying than what you are. I chose that article specifically to find one that was complimentary to Bay in order to show that "Bay has a reputation" was something even the director himself acknowledged. So yes, I did read the article. That doesn't mean I agree with it. What does this have to do with your claim that Transformers was the cause of this reputation?
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Oct 15, 2016 01:16
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ImpAtom posted:I chose that article specifically to find one that was complimentary to Bay in order to show that "Bay has a reputation" was something even the director himself acknowledged. So yes, I did read the article. That doesn't mean I agree with it. How about you actually look at my initial statement and then compare it to the criticisms being levied against him in that article, brosef, because the critics being quoted aren't making the same criticisms that nerds are making today. Like, that article even has a point where it says how even his worst critics will admit that Bay knows exactly what he's doing, just that they don't agree with his execution. Bay's modern reputation is a lot more puerile, since it has been constructed to make him a target of ridicule and contempt, framed as just too dumb to know what he's doing and relying entirely on a backline of technicians to build the movie around his clumsy ham hands. Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 01:18
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Why is this happening How did we get here
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Oct 15, 2016 01:20
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Oct 15, 2016 01:21
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CineD is leaking.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:22
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FckkZihQUaU
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Oct 15, 2016 01:25
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This all just reminded me that I never actually rewatched Eva when the blu Rays came out earlier this year and I need to do that once I get caught up on JoJos
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Oct 15, 2016 01:33
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:How about you actually look at my initial statement and then compare it to the criticisms being levied against him in that article, brosef, because the critics being quoted aren't making the same criticisms that nerds are making today. You're moving the goalposts pretty far away from "It's kind of funny because the meme of Michael Bay being a big dumb jock idiot who somehow keystone kopsed his way into making tightly produced blockbusters one after another for twenty years running only really started after Transformers" to "well, it's not the exact specific criticism I'm thinking of!!" Bay had a lot of reputations as a vapid cocaine-addled explosion-fest thoughtless film maker from basically post-Armageddon and Pearl Harbor and The Island didn't help him much. If that's justified is up to debate (I think it's a bit unreasonable to assume he's stupid at bare minimum). Likewise if you're saying Armageddon and The Rock never got nailed for racial stereotypes you've got a poor memory of the 90s or were remarkably isolated. It was literally something we had to discuss in class in school before we watched Armageddon for the inevitable "teacher is bored, time to watch a movie" end-year moments.) The guy had a reputation and Transformers lived up to that reputation in the minds of a lot of people. You can argue it is unfair as much as you want but pretending that Michael Bay wasn't criticized before Transformers is straight wrong. (And if you want to argue that the racism and sexism criticisms are louder than the vapid cocaine criticisms in 2016 vs the 1999s, that's true but also a reflection of changing cultural tone as well.) In Training posted:This all just reminded me that I never actually rewatched Eva when the blu Rays came out earlier this year and I need to do that once I get caught up on JoJos Just watch them at the same time.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:34
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gently caress cine d and gently caress transformers and gently caress the posters who won't let this die. Can I talk about how sick it was that shin Godzilla used some evangelion tunes please
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Oct 15, 2016 01:36
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ImpAtom posted:You're moving the goalposts pretty far away from "It's kind of funny because the meme of Michael Bay being a big dumb jock idiot who somehow keystone kopsed his way into making tightly produced blockbusters one after another for twenty years running only really started after Transformers" to "well, it's not the exact specific criticism I'm thinking of!!" Like on two monitors?
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Oct 15, 2016 01:37
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In Training posted:Like on two monitors? Just play the audio of Jojos over the episode of Eva you're watching. or vice-versa. Edit: It turns out Aoba was Dio all along.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:46
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the yikes smiley except instead of walking out he falls to the ground in despair
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Oct 15, 2016 01:58
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Pearl Harbor sucked just a little bit more than this conversation.
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Oct 15, 2016 02:05
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yes
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Oct 15, 2016 02:34
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cined is the loving worst
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Oct 15, 2016 02:56
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So if we can draw parallels between evangelion and the new godzilla movie, and we can do the same between evangelion and kill la kill, can someone now draw parallels between the new godzilla movie and kill la kill for me please.
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Oct 15, 2016 03:48
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I think CineD should be nuked from orbit and everyone who posts there should be sent to the gulags
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Oct 15, 2016 03:55
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Gammatron 64 posted:I think CineD should be nuked from orbit and everyone who posts there should be sent to the gulags I think you should... um, uh *desperately tries to think of appropriate line from evangelion*
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Oct 15, 2016 03:58
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If Gammatron puts you in a gulag I'll come save you, comrade Shiskabob. 
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Oct 15, 2016 04:06
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SHISHKABOB posted:I think you should... um, uh *desperately tries to think of appropriate line from evangelion* "I must not run away."
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Oct 15, 2016 04:07
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The derails are one of the most interesting parts of this thread and it is one of the reasons I still visit ADTRW. As for the conversation itself, I'm not sold on the idea that Bay makes ironic dudebro movies in the same way Anno does ironic otaku movies. Doing that takes a certain level of skill, and I can buy Anno knows what he's doing because Evangelion, even at its most superficial pandering moments, isn't just thermal expansion jokes. The middle arc of the show has some of the most creative and tense action scenes in giant robot media, it has great iconic shots that stay in your memory forever and the characters are still the same hosed up people from the rest of the show. I only watched the first Bayformers, but judging by that one the man can't make giant 3D robots beating each other fun to watch. He can't write good comedy or interesting character drama either. When he can do a movie that is at least as good as a mediocre Gundam episode, I'll be more willing to believe that his movies are actually subversive criticism. Make SMG watch Evangelion.
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Oct 15, 2016 04:11
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GimmickMan posted:Make SMG watch Evangelion.
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Oct 15, 2016 04:14
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GimmickMan posted:As for the conversation itself, I'm not sold on the idea that Bay makes ironic dudebro movies in the same way Anno does ironic otaku movies. Doing that takes a certain level of skill, and I can buy Anno knows what he's doing because Evangelion, even at its most superficial pandering moments, isn't just thermal expansion jokes. The middle arc of the show has some of the most creative and tense action scenes in giant robot media, it has great iconic shots that stay in your memory forever and the characters are still the same hosed up people from the rest of the show. It's one thing to say you don't agree with a particular flavor of analysis, it's a totally different thing to say that Bay lacks directorial skill. You don't get two of your films in the Criterion Collection by accident. Whether it appeals to you or not, he is an extremely detail-oriented director, and his loudest critics often tend to mistake "detail-oriented" to mean "conforms to reality" rather than "internally consistent."
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Oct 15, 2016 04:30
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What I hear a lot of people say was that it wasn't an accident but that The Rock and Armageddon's inclusions were just a means for Criterion to fund their other work (It's a bit telling that the essay for Armageddon was written by one of Bay's college professors, and that both movies were included only shortly after their initial release- less than a year in Armageddon's case). I hear similar sentiments about Kevin Smith's Chasing Amy being included as well. However I would say Bay's work does meet Criterion's standard of being "important" filmmaking in the sense in that it was incredibly influential on future directors...though IMO it and the whole "chaos cinema" phenomenon have been to the medium's detriment.
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Oct 15, 2016 05:13
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GimmickMan posted:The middle arc of the show has some of the most creative and tense action scenes in giant robot media, it has great iconic shots that stay in your memory forever and the characters are still the same hosed up people from the rest of the show. Sometimes I really feel like it gets forgotten in the midst the character psychodramas and religious symbolism, but it bears repeating that Anno didn't get picked for Godzilla just because somebody liked Eva in a broad sense - the man has a loving incredible talent for directing Kaiju battles. I still go back and rewatch Rebuild 1's take on the Ramiel fight every so often, even when I've otherwise lost Eva fever. The way it balances quiet character moments with the brief but terrifying explosions of violence, how it establishes the scale and desperation of the coordinated effort to defeat the Angel (and how ensuring that the viewer understands the magnitude of the war effort helps the viewer to empathize with the incredible stress Shinji is under), the long, slow, white-knuckle buildup to the final exchange of gunfire with Ramiel, Shinji's utter terror warring with his resolve and fundamental decency - it's a goddamn masterclass in what you can express with a Kaiju scene. That applies both in terms of flashy and memorable action scenes and in terms of the more enduring character moments that bracket those scenes.
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Oct 15, 2016 05:26
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3 posted:It's one thing to say you don't agree with a particular flavor of analysis, it's a totally different thing to say that Bay lacks directorial skill. You don't get two of your films in the Criterion Collection by accident. Whether it appeals to you or not, he is an extremely detail-oriented director, and his loudest critics often tend to mistake "detail-oriented" to mean "conforms to reality" rather than "internally consistent." Fair enough. Add a disclaimer to my post: I genuinely don't get the appeal of "chaos cinema" and I tend to equate it with bad cinematography, which is my own bias. I stand by what I said regarding the comedy and characters though.
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Oct 15, 2016 05:49
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You guys have been making GBS threads on CineD all page but right now they're having the exact opposite conversation about this awesome Godzilla movie in that it is cool and chill and not full of angry nerdwank. Seriously, the gently caress was any of this
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Oct 15, 2016 06:43
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Someone really likes Michael Bay. Like the same way he likes Megan Fox.
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Oct 15, 2016 07:15
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That's enough cross-board drama, Michael Bay/Transformers talk. Talk about noted good and important anime Neon Genesis Evangelion instead, like the thread title suggests.
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Oct 15, 2016 07:20
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ImpAtom posted:Pacific Rim is superficially similar to Evangelion. It's got attacking monsters of the week, a sort of post-apocalyptic-but-not-really protect-the-cities vibe, and giant robots linked mentally with their pilots. It's only superficially though and a lot of that stuff is fairly generic robot stuff, it's just that for a lot of casual viewers Evangelion is one of the more familiar of those that isn't Voltron or Gundam. Pacific Rim has a shot of Crimson Typhoon that's basically the Unit-00 head snaps up to look at camera close-up. But that's about as far as it gets, yeah. Also, it's funny as poo poo to watch people go crazy about Michael Bay. It's like they forget/don't realise that TF2 introduces you to the antagonists by having them wail and gnash their teeth about the fact that their babies are dying. Not plotting to destroy the Earth or anything, just angsting that they need energy or their children will perish. The films are flat out weird and I don't think anime fans have any high ground to stand on about how they're actually just gross stupid art, but Shinji jerking it over Asuka's comatose body is high art because. . . (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 15, 2016 10:05
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Oh my god dude, if both mods telling you guys to stop talking about transformers isn't enough this thread should just be gassed.
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Oct 15, 2016 10:30
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K. Flaps posted:Oh my god dude, if both mods telling you guys to stop talking about transformers isn't enough this thread should just be gassed. Lol wow clam ur tits
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Oct 15, 2016 13:28
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Shut the gently caress about that piece of poo poo Michael Bay and his pieces of poo poo Transformers movies.
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Oct 15, 2016 14:08
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Rebuild 3 is out on dvd in the us now, right?
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Oct 15, 2016 14:45
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Yes it is.
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Oct 15, 2016 15:19
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Wonder what's goin on in the ol' Eva thread? e: I'll be back in a couple of days, maybe.
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Oct 15, 2016 17:18
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ImpAtom posted:Just play the audio of Jojos over the episode of Eva you're watching.  
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Oct 15, 2016 23:32
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shin godzilla was cool ignoring musical plagarism
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Oct 15, 2016 23:35
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