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Zhent posted:That's sort of what worries me about taking on more restoration projects - I've had enough trouble figuring out when my planes were restored 'properly' that I'd almost like to start with something I know is correct, and then add to it from there with items I can refurbish myself using the new saw as a comparison. You can use a rip saw for crosscutting, but you can't use a crosscut for rip cutting. Crosscutting with a rip saw may give you some more tear out on the back side, but you can clean it up with a plane or ignore it if it's the non-showing face. Edit: GEMorris disagrees with me. I'd defer to him. TooMuchAbstraction posted:Quick check -- if my only plane currently is a block plane, then a Stanley 5 or thereabouts should be the next on the list, right? I'm looking on eBay and seeing prices of $30 at the low end (for a visibly covered-in-rust specimen) to over $100 for restored planes. What's a "reasonable" amount to be paying? I can probably handle restoring one. Maybe I'm just lucky on eBay, but I found a ready-to-use No 5 for $35 shipped a couple months ago. Skip anything with broken handles (the horn is really important!) or visible rust. Use a type study and aim for something before 1940. If they sell for above your ideal price point, just let it go. There are loads of them being traded every day, you'll get lucky eventually. These two are <$50 shipped and ending in just 24 hours. They look ready to use; I would be willing to bid on them: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-Bailey-No-5-wood-plane-/252697334158 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-No-5C-Corrugated-Sole-Jack-Plane-Type-11-1910-1918-/262750346525 ColdPie fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 19:49
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Zhent posted:That's good to know and I had assumed the opposite, that a panel saw would be more cheaply purchased later on. I can stretch to cover the router plane and one of the two panel saws, rip or crosscut. If you picked one, is one easier to use for both uses? Thanks! The necessity of panel saws depends on what other tools you have, especially power tools. Always go crosscut first for panel saws as a crosscut saw can rip, albeit slowly, but a rip saw has a tendency to make a mess of cross-cuts. Edit: I realize that ColdPie and I are giving contradicting recommendations. I will say that Schwarz, Sellers, and (more importantly in my mind) Charles Hayward all recommend getting a crosscut saw first. However there are a lot of conflicting opinions out there on the topic. TooMuchAbstraction posted:Thanks for the advice. Do you just lurk the Tool Swap'n'Sell subforum until he posts some planes, or what? As far as I can tell he doesn't have a storefront. Any other restorers you'd recommend? I used to lurk there a lot but I'm pretty much "done" with my tool purchases so not so much anymore. Reaching out to him via PMs there can help, just tell him what you are looking for. I don't have any experience with other restorers but I know there are a lot of good ones out there. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 19:55
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GEMorris posted:The necessity of panel saws depends on what other tools you have, especially power tools. Always go crosscut first for panel saws as a crosscut saw can rip, albeit slowly, but a rip saw has a tendency to make a mess of cross-cuts. I'd definitely defer to you. My understanding was the crosscut teeth when ripping will fall in between the fibers and follow along them, giving a poor rip cut. While a rip saw when used for crosscutting will cut the fibers well, but give bad tearout on the far side instead of slicing cleanly like a crosscut saw would.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:07
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ColdPie posted:I'd definitely defer to you. My understanding was the crosscut teeth when ripping will fall in between the fibers and follow along them, giving a poor rip cut. While a rip saw when used for crosscutting will cut the fibers well, but give bad tearout on the far side instead of slicing cleanly like a crosscut saw would. After reading your post I started doing some searching and realized the issue is a lot less clear than I had thought. What I'm picking up so far is that a crosscut saw with a lot of fleam is going to be a bear to rip with but one with more moderate fleam will do just fine at both tasks, while of course being slower at ripping than a dedicated rip saw. It sounds like most of the modern saw manufacturers aren't putting as much fleam on their crosscut saws these days compared to older manufacturers like disston et al I do still think a crosscut panel saw is overall more useful around the shop, especially if you already have a means of easily ripping (bandsaw or table saw)
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Jan 1, 2017 20:13
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Quick check -- if my only plane currently is a block plane, then a Stanley 5 or thereabouts should be the next on the list, right? I'm looking on eBay and seeing prices of $30 at the low end (for a visibly covered-in-rust specimen) to over $100 for restored planes. What's a "reasonable" amount to be paying? I can probably handle restoring one. GEMorris already answered, but this is a cool video talking about corrugated soles if you're interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CZlIRE2oO8 He misses some points, but it's a neat demonstration. I have a #5C, but I only ended up with the corrugated version because it was the best deal at the time. Personally I think the main advantage is that flattening/lapping the sole is faster, and that's about it. e: The #6 is a weird size, but they're usually pretty cheap and I think they're great to have as an inexpensive shooting board plane. Tons of weight and length. They should really be around $40 or so. Why not both! Hypnolobster fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 22:21
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Ripping by hand is a lot of work, so I also agree with going for the crosscut panel saw as a powered tool is more likely to be used. I may get some hate for this, but I have a Mastercraft panel saw, crosscut, with induction hardened teeth and it works great. It works so well that I don't know if i'd ever go for a premium one when this $10 one works great. I only use it for breaking down rough lumber for milling, not for any precise or finished cuts. I wouldn't take that stance for a backsaw though, always go for a nice backsaw. I have my "bookshelf" pretty much done, I just need to finish it, I'm waiting till my dresser is ready for finish, so I can do both at once. It's made out of butternut, walnut drawer fronts, cherry pulls and a pine back panel. A bit of a mishmash of woods but I think it'll look nice once finished. My dresser is also almost complete, glued it up last night and started the drawers today, got 5 of them dovetailed so far. I'm in a mad dash to get these done as my wife is due in a week, so if I don't get them done now they could be sitting awhile.  
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Jan 1, 2017 22:44
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GEMorris posted:After reading your post I started doing some searching and realized the issue is a lot less clear than I had thought. What I'm picking up so far is that a crosscut saw with a lot of fleam is going to be a bear to rip with but one with more moderate fleam will do just fine at both tasks, while of course being slower at ripping than a dedicated rip saw. Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I have a little contractor table saw [http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-15-Amp-10-in-Compact-Job-Site-Table-Saw-DW745/100497987], but it is less than useful for larger pieces which tend to flop around. I'm sure I will end up with both styles at some point, but I'm trying not to dive into the hobby headfirst TOO much, and it would be nice to build some easy projects while I get a handle on how all this stuff works, so it doesn't feel like I'm just buying stuff for the sake of it!
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Jan 1, 2017 22:53
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I'm glad to say I've solved the problem of tearout and bothering with grain orientation in my smoother planes. Basically, fettle the chip breaker to the right specs and put it very close. Basically this 3-part guide should set you on the right way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bhh6kxXZOQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVfJxDFNinc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmDVa5cxq8w Here's also an interesting japanese video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56DpxEOpxz0 So I've been futzing with this on and off for a year now and experimenting and it's all boiled down to what's said up there. With the blade and chip breaker fettled a humble bevel down stanley does everything the fanciest planes can do. Been trying to get tearout today on several forms of wood, oak, ash, and the worst of all, fir construction lumber. I will try tomorrow with this piece of silver birch I got which has got grain going everywhere in it... Won't be needing card scrapers anymore. I love the feeling when the plane performs as it should and shavings just shoot out of it.
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Jan 1, 2017 22:55
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Just a heads up for anyone who's been eyeing the Brooklyn Tool & Craft toolbox saw but hasn't yet pulled the trigger: the maker of the saw, toolsforworkingwood just raised the price on the saw by $40 but other retailers that carry the saw haven't yet done likewise, so if you want to pick it up and save $40 I'd suggest grabbing it from Lee valley soon .
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Jan 2, 2017 05:26
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His Divine Shadow posted:I'm glad to say I've solved the problem of tearout and bothering with grain orientation in my smoother planes. Basically, fettle the chip breaker to the right specs and put it very close. Basically this 3-part guide should set you on the right way: Thanks for posting this! I spent this morning re-sharpening and setting up my number 4 and number 5 in this way and it made a big difference to planing over difficult grain. I'd previously spent a bit of time getting the edge of my cap iron sharp, but not this much. I also set the distance from the edge of the plane iron to the start of the cap iron to about 0.4mm. Going against the grain and over knots was quite successful! That final video really demonstrates the relationship between cutting depth and cap iron distance.
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Jan 2, 2017 05:29
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Hypnolobster posted:... a cool video talking about corrugated soles if you're interested. This is better. http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/11/25/why-were-hand-planes-corrugated/ ColdPie posted:You can use a rip saw for crosscutting, but you can't use a crosscut for rip cutting. Crosscutting with a rip saw may give you some more tear out on the back side, but you can clean it up with a plane or ignore it if it's the non-showing face. Well, you can use either for either but using a crosscut saw for ripping sucks about 383% more donkey rear end than using a rip saw for crosscutting. Crosscut teeth are small and struggle to clear the kerf so there is a lot of friction, plus it's really slow. Crosscutting with an aggressive rip saw is also annoying. Obviously the ideal is to have both rip and crosscut and use them appropriately. A saw (or saws if you are a neander) is intrinsic to woodworking. If a person goes the handtool route then you have to buy saws, there is no way around it. (Unless you are a woodturner and at some point you will still need a saw.) The best choice is a nice combo or general purpose blade on a good tablesaw. 
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Jan 2, 2017 05:39
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Is anyone in this thread both primarily a hand tool woodworker AND also someone who primarily uses Japanese handsaws? I'm pretty heavily invested in western style saws, but the initial investment is really high. I've always wanted to recommend japanese saws for their relative low cost and easy maintenance (replaceable blades rather than sharpening) but as it's not something I use I always hesitate. For the same functions you get with a Ryoba, a Dozuki Noko Giri, and a Dotsuki Takebiki, you would need three backsaws and two panel saws in the western tradition.
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Jan 2, 2017 05:47
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GEMorris posted:Is anyone in this thread both primarily a hand tool woodworker AND also someone who primarily uses Japanese handsaws? I'm pretty heavily invested in western style saws, but the initial investment is really high. I've always wanted to recommend japanese saws for their relative low cost and easy maintenance (replaceable blades rather than sharpening) but as it's not something I use I always hesitate. Heck you can sharpen the higher quality saws just fine. I like them for really precise cuts and narrow kerfs, but they tend to wander a bit on me for longer rip cuts. That may be more a function of my poor technique with the long whippy blade though. In fact the first saw I ever bought was the "professional" ryoba from Lee Valley, just for economy. What I'd like to see is a bit more variety in makes and quality available in the west
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Jan 2, 2017 06:02
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Skippy Granola posted:Heck you can sharpen the higher quality saws just fine. I thought the reason you couldn't sharpen was that they were hard fired so were very brittle?
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Jan 2, 2017 06:23
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A lot of the newer ones are impulse-hardened so they'll just ruin a file I'm not a huge fan of disposable tools, even if an impulse hardened ryoba will last years
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Jan 2, 2017 06:29
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There's also the time/effort factor, too. Plus file ruining hotness.
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Jan 2, 2017 06:31
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Whats the goto inexpensive 10" sawblades that are halfway decent? Preferably something on Amazon I just picked up a mediocre table saw off craigslist to do the odd cuts my mitre saw can't handle but it didn't come with any decent blades and all my mitre blades are 12" Ill want a general purp and probably a nice finish blade.
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Jan 2, 2017 09:14
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Freud Diablo blades were my general go to on table, radial arm, and mitre saws. Although I don't own a radial arm or table saw anymore.
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Jan 2, 2017 16:24
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I recently bought a Freud Fusion and while it doesn't quite live up to the marketing, I couldn't get chip free cuts in melamine, it is a very good blade and I'm appreciating it more as I use it. At first I didn't think the rips were glue ready but after gluing up some panels I changed my mind. I've also used Freud combo blade and it did a good job, a 60T crosscut which cuts clean and leaves a burnished edge, an 80T miter blade which leaves a polished edge. If you want a really cheap blade the 10" Dewalt construction blades are excellent for the price and thin kerf.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:31
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Zhent posted:I'm looking for a tool/purchase recommendation: I received a pair of gift cards to Lie-Nielsen. I'm just starting out in handheld woodworking - all I've got currently are a refurb stanley #4, #6, a veritas blcok plane, and a low angle bevel up jack plane [62?]. Next on my list was a saw or two and starting to get some chisels, but I was not planning on getting those from Lie Nielsen - I figure . Should I use the gift card on a plane, or pick up a dovetail saw + some chisels instead? The Auriou rasps are pretty cool too if you like shaping things.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:34
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While reading random woodworking stuff today, I discovered that people race Belt Sanders. Goddamnit humans
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Jan 2, 2017 21:21
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I don't think I've seen a joint like this before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCimhd3COvw
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Jan 2, 2017 22:27
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Trabant posted:I don't think I've seen a joint like this before: Oh gotcha, "sashimono" is Japanese for "hotdoggin' showboatin' joinery"
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Jan 2, 2017 22:39
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TheDon01 posted:Whats the goto inexpensive 10" sawblades that are halfway decent?
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Jan 2, 2017 23:33
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I was able to find a couple of sellers on ebay with Daizo Mitsukawa saws for between 60 and 80 USD - cursory research indicates he's one of a handful of master sawsmiths in Japan. Worth a look - will report back once they arrive and I break them in. More to the point, the teeth are not impulse hardened, which adds life to the saw and honestly I feel improves the cut. Plus, sharpening your own saws is good for the soul.
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Jan 3, 2017 00:27
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japtor posted:How much is inexpensive? I got the Irwin Marples 50T combo blade a while back as my first/only blade so far for about $40, here's a comparison with the equivalent Freud Diablo. Not sure if it matters but that comparison is the Italian Marples vs the Chinese Freud combo. Freud also sells an Italian made combo for $50-something.
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Jan 3, 2017 00:37
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As far as Japanese Saws go, I have a Dozuki Z Saw that I am quite fond of so far. It has effortlessly sailed through all the wood I've put it to so far. I think it's one of the ones that has to have the blade replaced instead of sharpened though. Trabant posted:I don't think I've seen a joint like this before: Oh my god it's so pretty
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Jan 3, 2017 01:37
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Goon mass purchase project- get on it boys. Idk if I've posted this before, seems like the old boy lists every few months in hopes of a buyout. http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/tls/5936827327.html
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Jan 3, 2017 01:58
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Hoarding of any type gives me anxiety but hoarding tools especially so since I know how easy it would be to end up on the same road as that guy.
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Jan 3, 2017 02:12
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Dibs on the 49 brace and bits
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Jan 3, 2017 02:22
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I ended up getting both the large routing plane and the crosscut panel saw. I figured that if I need to do any serious ripping before I acquire the appropriate saw, I will have to jury rig something to get my table saw to work. I'm currently working on tracking down a saw or two that I can try my hand at refurbishing, although given the mess I have made of two of my 'refurb' hand planes that may do more harm than good. Can anyone recommend a book or series of projects that will help work my way into hand-tool woodworking? I've been looking around for a good introductory book, but something like the 'Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking' series seems like more of a reference series than a set of projects.
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Jan 3, 2017 16:32
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Zhent posted:I ended up getting both the large routing plane and the crosscut panel saw. I figured that if I need to do any serious ripping before I acquire the appropriate saw, I will have to jury rig something to get my table saw to work. I'm currently working on tracking down a saw or two that I can try my hand at refurbishing, although given the mess I have made of two of my 'refurb' hand planes that may do more harm than good. Don't hit me but Paul Sellers' Working Wood 1&2 is a pretty good set of projects and basic information to get you started. It's nicely designed to build on various skills, and I like his concept of just three woodworking joints.
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Jan 3, 2017 16:47
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Zhent posted:Can anyone recommend a book or series of projects that will help work my way into hand-tool woodworking? I've been looking around for a good introductory book, but something like the 'Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking' series seems like more of a reference series than a set of projects. Anarchists Design Book, hands down my top recommendation for this.
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Jan 3, 2017 16:53
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Yet Another Roubo Post, but as a beginner I found this video to be a good visual walk-through of some specific bench features. Seeing them in action made the design choices click a lot more for me. Also, going back to flush-mount vices: starting at 4:00 he points out the work rest pegs down the length of the bench: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB0-F6yq8zM&t=240s Maybe this goes to explain how people somehow live with a flush vice without crushing their hands like Paul Sellers does?
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Jan 3, 2017 17:49
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Zhent posted:Can anyone recommend a book or series of projects that will help work my way into hand-tool woodworking? I've been looking around for a good introductory book, but something like the 'Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking' series seems like more of a reference series than a set of projects. Paul Sellers also has small projects that are free on youtube, like a small dovetail box, a wall clock, a frame saw, spoons, and some others. If you want more complex things, he also has a subscription site that has videos of him demonstrating how to make the various projects which are super helpful in learning techniques. There are table projects, doors, drawers, tool chests, cabinets, chairs, stools, and a bunch of other projects that you can adapt fairly easily to make something more to your taste. He just finished up a rocking chair which was interesting.
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Jan 3, 2017 17:49
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Hubis posted:Yet Another Roubo Post, but as a beginner I found this video to be a good visual walk-through of some specific bench features. Seeing them in action made the design choices click a lot more for me. I find that guy's videos to be well produced and he does good work, but there's a certain je ne sais quoi pas about him whenever he's not talking directly about woodworking.
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Jan 3, 2017 17:57
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GEMorris posted:Anarchists Design Book, hands down my top recommendation for this. I would also recommend this, although with the caveat that I haven't actually tried to do anything in it yet, but it is well written and engaging and tackles a lot of tricky subjects in multiple ways.
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Jan 3, 2017 18:02
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Phone posted:I find that guy's videos to be well produced and he does good work, but there's a certain je ne sais quoi pas about him whenever he's not talking directly about woodworking. Yeah I feel the same way. Also I've been conditioned to regard a white dude referring to himself as "samurai" anything as rather cringe-worthy.
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Jan 3, 2017 18:48
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Phone posted:I find that guy's videos to be well produced and he does good work, but there's a certain je ne sais quoi pas about him whenever he's not talking directly about woodworking. I know what you mean. He seems pretty insufferable and like his whole life is an act. Like watch the first part of this video and tell me he seems like someone you would want to be around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAqwTD1RBKQ
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Jan 3, 2017 19:03
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Atticus_1354 posted:I know what you mean. He seems pretty insufferable and like his whole life is an act. Like watch the first part of this video and tell me he seems like someone you would want to be around. *literally spends 30 seconds sucking on a pipe* "Exciting new development... my apprentice quit on me. Freakin' guy." *pause* "That wasn't a negative thing, it was more of a financial thing." Yeah, you seem like a delight to work with. The thing that comes to mind is when Penny-Arcade wanted a combination sysadmin web developer to work for $30k because think about all of the exposure you'll get and fun you'll have by working for me!?!? e: I made it to 3 minutes. What an rear end. "I'm looking for an apprentice. 2 years of experience required." Piss off. Phone fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jan 3, 2017 |
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Jan 3, 2017 19:11
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