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Hubis posted:Maybe this goes to explain how people somehow live with a flush vice without crushing their hands like Paul Sellers does? I still can't not laugh at the whole "hand crushing" excuse. Phone and I were working on his bench in my garage and I showed him the magic trick of simply not putting your fingers between the board you are clamping and the front edge of the bench. He was really amazed by my discovery that since you control your hands, you can move them to locations where they don't get squashed. How this information as eluded Mr. Sellers is anyone's guess.
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Jan 3, 2017 19:28
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It's witchcraft, you must be a witch. Today, we'll be making a stake, the sort you might use for burning a witch, in the traditional style.
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Jan 3, 2017 19:32
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GEMorris posted:I still can't not laugh at the whole "hand crushing" excuse. Phone and I were working on his bench in my garage and I showed him the magic trick of simply not putting your fingers between the board you are clamping and the front edge of the bench. He was really amazed by my discovery that since you control your hands, you can move them to locations where they don't get squashed. How this information as eluded Mr. Sellers is anyone's guess. I can control all of my fingers independent of my hand and wrist positions. Is this normal?
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Jan 3, 2017 19:35
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I like pinching my fingers so a flush vise is great for me
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Jan 3, 2017 19:38
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Bad Munki posted:It's witchcraft, you must be a witch. "Now I know that this crucifix is square because I made it."
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Jan 3, 2017 19:43
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GEMorris posted:He was really amazed by my discovery that since you control your hands, you can move them to locations where they don't get squashed. How this information as eluded Mr. Sellers is anyone's guess. In fairness it eludes many woodworkers at least sometimes. Like the times I stabbed myself with a chisel because my hand was in the wrong place.
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Jan 3, 2017 19:48
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Does anyone have any recommendations for a book about Arts and Crafts style woodworking? Maybe something that hits on the history of it as well as design elements.
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Jan 3, 2017 19:51
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wormil posted:In fairness it eludes many woodworkers at least sometimes. Like the times I stabbed myself with a chisel because my hand was in the wrong place. Yeah, managed to give myself a real nice clean slice across the thumb since I slipped and was being an idiot. My wife was not as impressed as I was with the ease or the cleanness of the cut.
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Jan 3, 2017 20:04
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Falcon2001 posted:Yeah, managed to give myself a real nice clean slice across the thumb since I slipped and was being an idiot. My wife was not as impressed as I was with the ease or the cleanness of the cut. What was the relative moisture of your thumb? Is your shop heated by a wood stove because that'll definitely put some twist along the surface of the joint.
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Jan 3, 2017 20:13
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Phone posted:What was the relative moisture of your thumb? Is your shop heated by a wood stove because that'll definitely put some twist along the surface of the joint. Thumb movement is a myth.
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Jan 3, 2017 20:20
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Phone posted:What was the relative moisture of your thumb? Is your shop heated by a wood stove because that'll definitely put some twist along the surface of the joint. This is why you evenly shellac both sides of your thumb
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Jan 3, 2017 20:26
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Falcon2001 posted:Yeah, managed to give myself a real nice clean slice across the thumb since I slipped and was being an idiot. My wife was not as impressed as I was with the ease or the cleanness of the cut. "drat, I did a good job sharpening that one. It didn't even hurt before it started gushing blood. Hmm... I wonder how blood holds up as a stain..." 
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Jan 3, 2017 20:28
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wormil posted:In fairness it eludes many woodworkers at least sometimes. Like the times I stabbed myself with a chisel because my hand was in the wrong place. I sliced my belly in 2 places leaning too hard on a very sharp Ashley Isles chisel, so in fairness I should be called the Samurai Seppuku woodworker
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Jan 3, 2017 20:52
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edit; ^^^^^^^^^  Magnus Praeda posted:... I wonder how blood holds up as a stain..." It slowly fades over time but a little luminol can bring it back to life 
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Jan 3, 2017 20:53
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Zhent posted:Can anyone recommend a book or series of projects that will help work my way into hand-tool woodworking? I've been looking around for a good introductory book, but something like the 'Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking' series seems like more of a reference series than a set of projects. Another strategy you could take here is just building stuff you want to have around the house. My first project was a coat rack. Just a couple pieces of wood in butt joints, but that taught me about buying wood, flattening it, and applying finish. Then I needed a computer table as my old one was falling apart. That taught me about designing furniture plans, mortise & tenon joinery and laminating boards for the top. Now I'm building a new table for my kitchen to expand our counter space. This taught me about using rough wood from the lumber yard, and is giving more practice for all of the above. In the spring I'm going to make a workbench, then I'm planning on a tool chest, a book shelf to keep woodworking books in the garage, a wall shelf for the kitchen, a bench for the front entry way... In other words, I don't think you need to baby-step it or follow some proscribed set of projects. Just dive in with the simplest piece of furniture that you want to have and go from there. You'll figure it out. Some ways back, Wormil (I think) recommended three books, one on carcase construction (Andy Rae), another on joinery (Gary Rogowski), and one on finishes (Bob Flexner). I bought all three of those, read/skimmed them, and now find them useful to flip through when planning a project, as a single resource to remind me what kinds of construction designs and joints are available.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:41
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Has anyone read By Hand and Eye and have any thoughts? Or any of the other books from lost art press? I'm enjoying Sellers but I'd like to make things other than the craftsman style stuff he does. Also people are talking about the anarchists design book...what does it offer in terms of design? It sounds like it uses the basic forms of furniture that has been around for a long time or something? I've looked at a few things people have made from it and I'm a little meh.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:11
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ColdPie posted:
I'm going to gout out on a limb and say that anyone asking for skill level specific sources of projects that provide guidance on techniques has already considered "just winging it" and has rejected it as not the right approach for them. There is nothing wrong with seeking appropriate guidance and a book aimed at newer woodworkers is a pretty good place to start if you are a newer woodworker. It's easy to forget how difficult it is to synthesize multiple sources of (let's be honest it's woodworking so, often conflicting) information when you are new. It's also easy to forget how discouraging it is when you end up with a disappointing result only because you didn't know what you didn't know. Please don't take this as an attack but if someone asks for guidance I think the answer probably shouldn't be "you don't need any". Flattened Spoon posted:Has anyone read By Hand and Eye and have any thoughts? Or any of the other books from lost art press? I'm enjoying Sellers but I'd like to make things other than the craftsman style stuff he does. Also people are talking about the anarchists design book...what does it offer in terms of design? It sounds like it uses the basic forms of furniture that has been around for a long time or something? I've looked at a few things people have made from it and I'm a little meh. I still need to get by hand and eye but the anarchists design book offers both a language of functional but simple vernacular furniture as well as several design prototyping techniques which can be very useful. That being said if the pieces aren't your style then you might get less out of it. I'm meh on a few pieces but the chair and worktable are very much my jam. Honestly I don't think LAP publishes anything of low quality, but I certainly do not own their entire catalogue. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 00:21
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Flattened Spoon posted:Has anyone read By Hand and Eye and have any thoughts? Or any of the other books from lost art press? I'm enjoying Sellers but I'd like to make things other than the craftsman style stuff he does. Also people are talking about the anarchists design book...what does it offer in terms of design? It sounds like it uses the basic forms of furniture that has been around for a long time or something? I've looked at a few things people have made from it and I'm a little meh. By Hand and Eye is good, but it's sort of handwavey. It's about using measurement by proportion rather than numbers, and one man's raging erection for dividers. Worth buying the PDF if you're interested in it. Anarchist's Design Book is probably my favorite woodworking book. The projects are super simple, mostly staked and then casework later in the book. Everything is plain and useful (including a coffin, for some reason), tools and techniques are minimal, etc. I'll likely never build anything out of the book, and I doubt most people who read it do. I don't see that as the point of it anyway. e: related, the only full blown "tools and techniques" book I've really liked is, ashamedly, Hybrid Woodworking. Hypnolobster fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 00:29
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Zhent posted:Can anyone recommend a book or series of projects that will help work my way into hand-tool woodworking? I've been looking around for a good introductory book, but something like the 'Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking' series seems like more of a reference series than a set of projects. I forgot to mention this in my earlier response but the English woodworker has a series of projects which include a lot of video instruction and are hand tool only
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Jan 4, 2017 00:32
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Hypnolobster posted:including a coffin, for some reason Because gently caress consumer capitalism I think Schwarz's politics are a bigger source of the hate directed at him than his opinions on woodworking. Hypnolobster posted:Anarchist's Design Book is probably my favorite woodworking book. The projects are super simple, mostly staked and then casework later in the book. Everything is plain and useful (including a coffin, for some reason), tools and techniques are minimal, etc. I'll likely never build anything out of the book, and I doubt most people who read it do. I don't see that as the point of it anyway. I'm currently building a staked stand for my planer (testing out the technique on shop furniture) and also working on a end table that combines boarded and staked techniques.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:36
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ColdPie posted:Some ways back, Wormil (I think) recommended three books, one on carcase construction (Andy Rae), another on joinery (Gary Rogowski), and one on finishes (Bob Flexner). I bought all three of those, read/skimmed them, and now find them useful to flip through when planning a project, as a single resource to remind me what kinds of construction designs and joints are available. I might have recommended Flexner but that could have been anyone. His blog about finishing tables aside, I've never gone wrong with any advice from his book on finishing. The other two I haven't read but I would like to. I have Bill Hylton's book on carcase construction and it's basically an encyclopedia of how to build any carcase based piece of furniture. There are lots of books I'd like to read but I have to set limits on buying or I get carried away. And unfortunately my local library hasn't bought a woodworking book in about a decade.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:50
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GEMorris posted:I still need to get by hand and eye but the anarchists design book offers both a language of functional but simple vernacular furniture as well as several design prototyping techniques which can be very useful. That being said if the pieces aren't your style then you might get less out of it. I'm meh on a few pieces but the chair and worktable are very much my jam. edit: Hypnolobster posted:By Hand and Eye is good, but it's sort of handwavey. It's about using measurement by proportion rather than numbers, and one man's raging erection for dividers. Worth buying the PDF if you're interested in it.
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Jan 4, 2017 00:59
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Atticus_1354 posted:Does anyone have any recommendations for a book about Arts and Crafts style woodworking? Maybe something that hits on the history of it as well as design elements. I have this book and it's great. https://www.amazon.ca/Arts-Crafts-Furniture-Classic-Contemporary/dp/1561583596 There's no plans, but it does go deeply into the history as well as touch on some of the construction elements. The photography is also top notch, I highly recommend it.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:12
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Flattened Spoon posted:I just came across this video from woodwrights shop http://www.pbs.org/video/2365788077/ does this sum up what the book is about? It's pretty cool actually. I'm only halfway through it, but yes. I've only skimmed the book, but it's the 450 page version of that video with theory, practical and political, attached.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:18
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GEMorris posted:I'm going to gout out on a limb and say that anyone asking for skill level specific sources of projects that provide guidance on techniques has already considered "just winging it" and has rejected it as not the right approach for them. There is nothing wrong with seeking appropriate guidance and a book aimed at newer woodworkers is a pretty good place to start if you are a newer woodworker. Heh, I reworded that post a bunch to try to avoid sounding haughty or dismissive. The guidance I was trying to provide was to find something to build that they personally want, instead of something provided out of a book. Just wanted to place a vote for an option that has been working for me. Dude has a bunch of good options in front of him and can decide for himself, obviously. I plan to pick up Schwartz's book myself, sometime.
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Jan 4, 2017 01:18
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Flattened Spoon posted:I just came across this video from woodwrights shop http://www.pbs.org/video/2365788077/ does this sum up what the book is about? It's pretty cool actually. Staked furniture is about half the book, and yeah all the concepts from that video are discussed in depth in the book. I made the "banjo" jig he discusses in the book for drilling the resultant angles for my legs last night, and it worked remarkably well. Currently octagonalizing the legs for my planer stand (once I finish watching this video). ColdPie posted:Heh, I reworded that post a bunch to try to avoid sounding haughty or dismissive. The guidance I was trying to provide was to find something to build that they personally want, instead of something provided out of a book. Just wanted to place a vote for an option that has been working for me. Dude has a bunch of good options in front of him and can decide for himself, obviously. I plan to pick up Schwartz's book myself, sometime. Certainly man, sorry if I came off harsh or anything. I used to be an educator and have some pretty strongly held opinions (which I should probably hold a bit looser) based on that experience. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 01:22
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I'm not an educator and largely hated my time in formal education, so perhaps there's some difference in philosophy here 
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Jan 4, 2017 02:04
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Meow Meow Meow posted:I have this book and it's great. https://www.amazon.ca/Arts-Crafts-Furniture-Classic-Contemporary/dp/1561583596 That sounds like what I want. I bought a Greene and Greene book and that made me want more books that are about the different movements and styles and less an instruction book.
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Jan 4, 2017 02:51
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 The octagonalizing isn't so bad, but the tapering takes some time....
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Jan 4, 2017 03:16
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I managed apply the final coats of spray lacquer to my small wooden box project around 3 days ago. I started looking over the box again today and it seemed to have turned out fine. However, I left the box on top of a table for a few hours resting on the corner of a piece of normal printing paper, and it turns out the outline of that paper's corner got imprinted onto the lacquered surface on the bottom. It feels rough to the touch, and it doesn't come off by wiping. Is there something I can do to repair it besides sanding the whole thing and spraying even more coats on top? I'd rather not start doing that again since I've already put the hinges onto the box. Also, how long am I supposed to wait for the lacquer to cure before I can start handling it? Apparently 3 days wasn't enough. edit: Supposedly people tend to sand with a P400-grit paper with mineral spirits after the final finish, and then apply wax with a cotton cloth. I didn't do that since I figured the finish was good enough already. Should I do that to fix the imperfection? Will the wax protect against further damage? Minorkos fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 03:24
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Lacquer can feel dry to the touch in minutes but take weeks or months (depending on thickness) to fully dry. You can either sand it smooth and respray or try touching it up with lacquer thinner. The buffing with mineral spirits isn't required, at least I've never done that.
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Jan 4, 2017 05:27
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wormil posted:Lacquer can feel dry to the touch in minutes but take weeks or months (depending on thickness) to fully dry. Yeah, I knew it wouldn't have fully cured yet but I didn't expect gravity alone to mess up the finish on the bottom. wormil posted:You can either sand it smooth and respray or try touching it up with lacquer thinner. The buffing with mineral spirits isn't required, at least I've never done that. I figured it'd be easier to buff it and polish it using wax instead of applying another coat of lacquer. The spray lacquer I'm using is really finicky to apply and messing up the finish at this point would be pretty nightmarish. I've also already put in the hinges and a latch and I'd like to be finished with the project. I mentioned noticing the imperfection to my dad and he basically told me to stop being such a baby and get over it, so that's an option too
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Jan 4, 2017 05:55
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wormil posted:Lacquer can feel dry to the touch in minutes but take weeks or months (depending on thickness) to fully dry. You can either sand it smooth and respray or try touching it up with lacquer thinner. The buffing with mineral spirits isn't required, at least I've never done that. Agreed, but use a really light touch with the thinner
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Jan 4, 2017 16:07
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ColdPie posted:Another strategy you could take here is just building stuff you want to have around the house. GEMorris posted:I forgot to mention this in my earlier response but the English woodworker has a series of projects which include a lot of video instruction and are hand tool only Thanks to both. I think there's definite value in just building useful items, and have a list of those [stand for that contractors table saw, assembly table, wood drying rack of some kind, workbench] but I'm not sure I'm at a point where I could reasonably design those and be confident they were sturdy and useful. I've picked up both the Anarchists Design book and Working Wood 1 & 2 - between those and building some of the workshop-related items I really need, hopefully I can pick up some skills towards making some actual woodworking pieces. Zhent fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 19:13
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Zhent posted:Thanks to both. I think there's definite value in just building useful items, and have a list of those [stand for that contractors table saw, assembly table, wood drying rack of some kind, workbench] but I'm not sure I'm at a point where I could reasonably design those and be confident they were sturdy and useful. Post pics!
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Jan 4, 2017 19:32
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Mr. Mambold posted:Agreed, but use a really light touch with the thinner Sorry to be bombarding the thread with questions but I'm struggling to find clear information on how to fix the surface with thinner. I assume I need to wipe the lacquered surface clean, but not sand it beforehand. Do I apply the thinner with a cloth or spray it? Will simply applying the thinner fix imperfections like smudges and stuff? The surface is otherwise very smooth and clear right now, so is there any danger of the thinner messing that up (or the applying process with the cloth)?
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Jan 4, 2017 19:47
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Zhent posted:Thanks to both. I think there's definite value in just building useful items, and have a list of those [stand for that contractors table saw, assembly table, wood drying rack of some kind, workbench] but I'm not sure I'm at a point where I could reasonably design those and be confident they were sturdy and useful. It's easy to make something heavy and sturdy. It takes engineering and craftsmanship to make something light and sturdy. What I'm getting at here is you can always overengineer and come back later.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:30
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One step at a time! I've been reading The Wheelwright's Shop by George Sturt and he talks about how wheelwrights and cartwrights would make sure to shave off every fibre of wood that didn't provide strength, so as to spare the draught animals. A dangerous proposition for me because I love my drawknife
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Jan 4, 2017 20:38
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Minorkos posted:Sorry to be bombarding the thread with questions but I'm struggling to find clear information on how to fix the surface with thinner. I assume I need to wipe the lacquered surface clean, but not sand it beforehand. Do I apply the thinner with a cloth or spray it? Will simply applying the thinner fix imperfections like smudges and stuff? The surface is otherwise very smooth and clear right now, so is there any danger of the thinner messing that up (or the applying process with the cloth)? I've only ever used a small brush or the corner of a rag to apply thinner, and yes there's a definite danger of it messing the surface up.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:04
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Minorkos posted:Sorry to be bombarding the thread with questions but I'm struggling to find clear information on how to fix the surface with thinner. I assume I need to wipe the lacquered surface clean, but not sand it beforehand. Do I apply the thinner with a cloth or spray it? Will simply applying the thinner fix imperfections like smudges and stuff? The surface is otherwise very smooth and clear right now, so is there any danger of the thinner messing that up (or the applying process with the cloth)? I've only ever used a small brush too but I have heard of people who spray lacquer thinner over a lacquer finish to 'reflow it' for lack of a better word. I don't know how bad the the spot is you're trying to fix. The big benefit of lacquer is it melts into itself so repairs are easy compared to varnish or poly which only bond mechanically. Lacquer is commonly used in luthiery so that might help you track down a source of information. Zhent posted:...stand for that contractors table saw, assembly table, wood drying rack of some kind, workbench] but I'm not sure I'm at a point where I could reasonably design those and be confident they were sturdy and useful. If you want to actually learn woodworking and understand why furniture and cabinetry is built the way it is, why one tables strong and rigid while another is rickety you need more general knowledge type books like the Tage Frid trilogy. Before anyone flies off the handle I'm not suggesting the books previously suggested are not up to the task, I don't know whether they are because I haven't read them, so I can only recommend what I know but Tage Frid will get you there and you'll know more about woodworking than most hobbyists. On the other hand you can spend the next 4 decades woodworking and building all the things you want to build without ever learning the fundamentals, all you have to do is learn how to you use your tools and copy what others have done, many people go that route too and there is nothing wrong with it.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:46
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