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I'm struggling with some questions that get asked on phone screens - in particular I got stuck when I was asked why or under what circumstances I left my last job. I'm not sure how to put it given that the truth is just that I was burned out and bored with what I was working on (my ex-coworkers have expressed that they are missing having me there very much now, though, since apparently things got Interesting just after that), and my manager noticed. I haven't been blacklisted or anything though, I'm certain of it.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:36
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AweStriker posted:I'm struggling with some questions that get asked on phone screens - in particular I got stuck when I was asked why or under what circumstances I left my last job. I'm not sure how to put it given that the truth is just that I was burned out and bored with what I was working on (my ex-coworkers have expressed that they are missing having me there very much now, though, since apparently things got Interesting just after that), and my manager noticed. I haven't been blacklisted or anything though, I'm certain of it. "I was finding the work repetitive and tedious and decided to find a position where I could find new and interesting challenges that make the best use of my abilities." Its just a matter of giving it the right spin.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:42
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Grump posted:Just had a phone interview where the employer said they were transitioning to working with React on a database project that's 15 years old. Depending on where you live, just being able to prove you know a single React thing other than having heard of it once is probably enough to entice. The last time I was looking about 3-4 years ago, I did an interview for a contract position I wasn't interested in just to dust off a bit and the guy seemed shocked to be talking to a Developer who had prior experience with SASS and MVC 3/4.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:52
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lifg posted:Never went to HS, or dropped out? I've known quite a few dropouts, but never anyone who never even attended. Never attended. It's a long story outside the scope of this thread, but the short version is that my parents asked if I wanted to be homeschooled, I said "Not go to school? Sure!", then they realized that homeschooling was too much work and left me to my own devices. Used the internet to learn, got my GED later. Probably wouldn't do it again, as there's a lot of prejudices involved("You were homeschooled in Louisiana? How old do you think the Earth is? Just curious."), but it worked out fine. More on topic, it was weirdly not a big hurdle to overcome. An awkward topic in interviews, sure, but everyone I've met in the tech industry, from meetups to work, has absolutely not given a poo poo about anyone else's education unless they went to the same school and want to reminisce about the campus. People only seem care if you know how to do the thing they need done, or if you want to learn the thing they like talking about. I had to work harder to get a job than just about every person I know, but it still wasn't particularly BAD, you know? In the end, I had sent out over 400 applications using indeed/glassdoor for about 4 months in Los Angeles, and out of those 400 I only had a handful of interviews. Of those handful of interviews, everyone mentioned they liked what they saw on the personal projects/open source section of my resume then called me in to ask more about them. They went over why I made choices I did, how I did certain things, then we did the algo-trivia(And, for every javascript interview, setTimeout shenanigans) everyone wants to do and eventually one gave me an offer. Nobody brought up education(specifically with regards to college), and if they were not abundantly clear when asking if my experience was paid, I quoted them on how long I had been doing code. If they explicitly said "paid", though,  The job I have now required a degree in computer science and 2 years of experience, for what it's worth. I had neither. Vincent Valentine fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 01:58
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Vincent Valentine posted:More on topic, it was weirdly not a big hurdle to overcome. An awkward topic in interviews, sure, but everyone I've met in the tech industry, from meetups to work, has absolutely not given a poo poo about anyone else's education unless they went to the same school and want to reminisce about the campus. If anything I'd think it'd be a bonus. A lot of programmers pride ourselves on being self-taught and self-motivated, but a programmer who never even went to high school is just on another level. I know you didn't ask for advice, but dear god you should leverage that on your next job hunt. Saying, "I never went to HS and taught myself coding by reading SICP and the dragon book," would get you an interview anywhere.
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Mar 1, 2017 04:22
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ROFLburger posted:I mean do you really want to work at a place that says "What the gently caress is a Github"? i used to work at AMD doing drivers and the majority of people on my team had never heard of github before, really depends what type of companies you're applying to.
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Mar 1, 2017 04:36
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Doghouse posted:literally not a single developer or manager had ever heard of an ORM That might be better than the opposite scenario.
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Mar 1, 2017 04:42
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I prefer my ORM to know all about developers.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:07
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lifg posted:If anything I'd think it'd be a bonus. A lot of programmers pride ourselves on being self-taught and self-motivated, but a programmer who never even went to high school is just on another level. I've had hiring responsibility and can confirm that if I got a cover letter which read "I never went to high school and I taught myself coding by reading SICP and the dragon book" I'd give the sender a call.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:14
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B-Nasty posted:That might be better than the opposite scenario. One of the former devs at my current company wrote a bespoke ORM for our flagship product. It's surprisingly okay to use, if not the most flexible thing in the world. I do prefer to use that instead of dynamic sql unless it's something really fancy. Until you need to dig into the ORM code itself for whatever reason. The main classes have the following header comment: "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here." I'm not joking about that and the comments are 100% correct. The dude who wrote that code wrote a lot of other code that I call "clever," and I don't use that term in a complimentary way in this case. Pro tip for you newbies: if you're at your job and find yourself in a position to write really cool, minimalist, or clever code, stop and think, "Can I possibly do this in a way that will be easier to read and follow for people who have no idea what the code is supposed to do before they start reading it?" If you can answer yes to that question, write your code the boring yet clear way, instead of the cool way. Save the clever poo poo for vanity projects if it's not getting you any other tangible benefits.
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Mar 1, 2017 06:37
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Che Delilas posted:One of the former devs at my current company wrote a bespoke ORM for our flagship product. It's surprisingly okay to use, if not the most flexible thing in the world. I do prefer to use that instead of dynamic sql unless it's something really fancy. Management might think, "We were going to use <framework> but Dave is such a genius...he wrote his own framework!" Meanwhile, it's a clusterfuck and you have 100,000 lines of code written in Dave_Framework instead of <industry_standard>.
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Mar 1, 2017 16:50
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Not necessarily saying that it was bad that they weren't using an orm, but I thought it was incredible that they had never even heard of the concept
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Mar 1, 2017 19:11
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Iverron posted:Depending on where you live, just being able to prove you know a single React thing other than having heard of it once is probably enough to entice. Yeah I basically explained to the guy that I was in the middle of creating my first React CRUD app and was just completely honest about not being extremely skilled at it but was having a lot of fun learning. I honestly couldn't tell what he was thinking after. Hopefully I get a call back 
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Mar 1, 2017 20:22
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A bit of a rant below, would really really love some feedback. I've been job searching for over a year now for a web development position. I come from a self taught background but do have a degree in mechanical engineering. I have completed about 10 websites at this point, freelanced and held a contract position, written several coding projects in my free time (stuff with Raspberry Pi, Python scripts for automation, a web scraper, etc.) which are all on my portfolio website or Github portfolio. In the past, my biggest problem was that it looked like I didn't have any interest in a specific thing and might jump as soon as I found some other interesting career to pursue. I have since rewritten my resume and and Linkedin from scratch, purely focusing on web development (except for a completely separate resume for software development positions because I am somewhat experienced in that.) I am getting a ton of hits, actually the first week I had to stop taking calls because I was getting so many interview requests. Now is the point where I'm starting to get rejected from all the positions I've interviewed for and there seems to be a somewhat steady trend of, and this is a direct quote from my most recent rejection, "Ultimately, we are looking for more depth of skill in both coding and product development experience. That said, I want to encourage you to stick with it and stay in touch. Certainly, your personality and attitude are very good and would fit in well here. I am hoping you will stay in touch and, as you develop your skills, we can pursue a role again at some point. " This isn't some automated thing because I have ~20 emails back and forth with this recruiter. I came right out of the Peace Corps to this job search and I've had a temp job for over a year. I'm broke as gently caress and don't think I'd be able to pursue some sort of coding school or something to obtain this mythical experience I don't seem to have even though I've been working so hard at this. What am I doing wrong?
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Mar 2, 2017 16:52
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Nothing, just keep it up. Also: lower your standards and salary expectations.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:07
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huhu posted:I came right out of the Peace Corps to this job search and I've had a temp job for over a year. I'm broke as gently caress and don't think I'd be able to pursue some sort of coding school or something to obtain this mythical experience I don't seem to have even though I've been working so hard at this. Flex your Peace Corps experience. Apply for web development jobs at non-profits and international development orgs. You need to be trolling https://www.peacecorps.gov/returned-volunteers/careers/career-link/ every single day. I have got my job off it, and still browse it from time to time. Find interesting organizations and companies on there and check their job boards directly. They may not always post their technical jobs on the job board (some do). Join Peace Corps networking groups in your city. Craft a storyline and really be strategic when you are applying. grenada fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 03:12
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Daviclond posted:I'd love a sense check from you guys as to: Sorry that I'm late to the party on this one. I did a conversion course in the UK (at Cardiff University). It was a huge boost to my career, although previously I had been a mediocre Psychology grad, so your circumstances might differ. UK salaries are lower than the US, although I do have one friend who did a Psych PhD and got hired to work remotely for an American software company on a £60,000 starting salary. UK salaries seem to be around half that (although maybe other people have a different experience). The software job market is crazy right now, or at least it was a year and a half ago. I got an offer from everywhere I applied. (I didn't apply to any AAA tech companies though.) In terms of how to select a course: I did some of the preparatory reading for the courses I was considering over my Easter break. I did a bunch of exercises from K&R and decided I didn't like it so I ruled out the Bristol course and opted for a Java/Python based course instead. Turns out doing the Bristol course would have prepared me way better for my current job, but it's not a huge problem and it's pretty much inevitable that you will have to pick up new technologies on the job. Crisis fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 22:00
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Cliffs:
I'm coming up on two years in July and I've been through 15-20 smaller builds as sole / lead, a couple large ($1m+) builds (co-pilot and support), etc. A lot of frontend experience (SCSS/VueJS/Angular1/etc), a good amount of CMS wiring experience in C# / .NET MVC including business, some PHP, some Python, and a lot of AWS/Linux management experience (I handle everything related to AWS/Linux at the company now). I came in being very aimed towards open source languages, tried C#, turned out to like the tool chain a lot in many ways (minus Windows. I will never like Windows), and now would not mind continuing into a C# environment. I like the people I work with, I get paid well, the benefits are good, and I get to try a lot of new things and very quickly find out what works and what doesn't. I also have a lot of pull on the dev end of the company at this point, which I really enjoy. What I don't like is that the work is boring, I'm constantly under heavy deadline pressure, we have bullshit AGILE meetings like retro that last 2-3 hours INCLUDING A DAILY STANDUP LASTING 45min-1hr, my commute sucks nut, and I have no mentor... I am doing the mentoring most of the time (wat). I guess I'm wondering if a transition to a more software development oriented place or at least singular project focus is a bad idea, or if I'm just crazy and burned out. I also don't know if this is a good future step as I am not a person that likes to coast, I like to be pushing and learning all the time . I'm also worried about this being my only on-paper experience and how that bodes for me in the future especially in terms with matching what I currently make as I get the idea that raises like I've gotten are not normal at all. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 02:58
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BlackMK4 posted:Cliffs: No one is forcing you to take a new job if you get offered one. Go look and if you get a better offer take it. It sounds like you're the smartest person in the room and that's an awful place to be early in your career. Also my experience is that massive raises are a sign that you were drastically underpaid and have a good manager. I wouldn't expect them to continue though if you're actually doing senior dev work then you're still underpaid.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:01
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BlackMK4 posted:Cliffs: Hi! My background is quite similar to yours (call center -> data entry -> sysadmin -> software, along with large pay bumps along the way), down to feeling a lot like you did at the end of my last company (enjoying having a lot of pull but being burnt out and tired of what I was working on). I do think life will be better for you if you get into a software product company and you can probably hack it. There will be a bit of an adjustment period but I think you will have plenty of opportunities to push yourself (although also probably to specialize a bit more than you are now). It's hard to get away from the Agile bullshit, but your company seems like an extreme case. In my experience "mentorships" never really seem to materialize, so I wouldn't get my hopes up there. As far as pay, you probably won't be able to constantly keep increasing at that same rate but you can probably seek a big bump from your next place.
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Mar 8, 2017 12:28
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BlackMK4 posted:What I don't like is that the work is boring, I'm constantly under heavy deadline pressure, we have bullshit AGILE meetings like retro that last 2-3 hours INCLUDING A DAILY STANDUP LASTING 45min-1hr, my commute sucks nut, and I have no mentor... I am doing the mentoring most of the time (wat). Do you not like the work because it isn't challenging, or because you just find coding in general boring? The first one can be solved with a different job (though you have to FIND the job that provides a challenge) or project, the second not so much. At my company we use scrum and so we spend about a day of time to review, retro and planning each sprint (realistically more like a day and a half since our brains are not braining at peak efficiency after planning). Nobody really likes these meetings but the goal is to get management off our backs for the rest of the sprint so we can work (which is mostly successful), so we deal with it. It helps that I aggressively keep the daily stand-up to under 15 minutes - 45 is insane and I would be loudly claiming that they're an enormous waste of time (they should be for devs to get on the same page, NOT status report meetings for the management). Sometimes you can effect change, but mostly I would be asking new companies about their process and specifically how long their stand-ups are. As for mentoring, eh. I tend to find a more senior dev and solicit their opinions when I'm unsure about something. Formal mentoring is nice but I find it rare. Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 18:46
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asur posted:No one is forcing you to take a new job if you get offered one. Go look and if you get a better offer take it. It sounds like you're the smartest person in the room and that's an awful place to be early in your career. Also my experience is that massive raises are a sign that you were drastically underpaid and have a good manager. I wouldn't expect them to continue though if you're actually doing senior dev work then you're still underpaid. I guess that is true, I am sitting on 255hr of PTO right now so I can afford to interview around. I'm not very experienced in that department, which is probably another reason to go through with it. RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS posted:Hi! My background is quite similar to yours (call center -> data entry -> sysadmin -> software, along with large pay bumps along the way), down to feeling a lot like you did at the end of my last company (enjoying having a lot of pull but being burnt out and tired of what I was working on). Che Delilas posted:Do you not like the work because it isn't challenging, or because you just find coding in general boring? The first one can be solved with a different job (though you have to FIND the job that provides a challenge) or project, the second not so much. The process you describe is very different than ours -- our checkins are to get PM oversight of what is happening. I bitch about the process all the time, but there is only so much you can do, and only so far you can take things before you're just being a dick. In terms of mentoring, the casual version is what I am need as I don't even have that here. Formal isn't what I'm looking for. I like breadcrumbs along the way that result in a 'holy poo poo' moment when it all comes together in my mind.  Thank you guys
BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 19:21
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BlackMK4 posted:I am sitting on 255hr of PTO right no
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Mar 8, 2017 19:48
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I find it difficult to find a 'convenient' time to use it since projects are back to back. 
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Mar 8, 2017 21:15
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BlackMK4 posted:I find it difficult to find a 'convenient' time to use it since projects are back to back. gently caress your projects timeline. I just took 3 days off and on one of them they had a mandatory overtime 'huddle' meeting at a managers desk. I don't give a poo poo about the timelines.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:28
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BlackMK4 posted:I find it difficult to find a 'convenient' time to use it since projects are back to back. Whose fault is that?
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Mar 8, 2017 22:52
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FWIW where I work we don't actually have to get leave approved we just take what we want. We send an email to our line manager and cc our team that we will be away. There's an understanding that around Christmas/summer you coordinate with your team so essential functions are filled, but there's no official approval processes.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:16
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BlackMK4 posted:I am sitting on 255hr of PTO right now 
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Mar 9, 2017 13:48
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Take your PTO. If you are so important that a project can't continue without you then it'll be the perfect opportunity for management to realize that A) you're a really crucial team member and B) maybe other people should learn what you're doing so that things don't stop if you're OOO
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Mar 9, 2017 15:56
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Just loving lol at Jobspring Partners and Workbridge Associates. These are the worst recruiting agencies ever. I used them last year when I was fresh out college because I was naive and was desperate for a job. They just bait you with an email for a potential job. And then when you get on the phone with them, they ask you to come in to their office without even mentioning the said job. I mistakenly started up communications with them because I'm on the job hunt again and here's basically how it went. They send me an email:  "Hey. We have this really cool company we're working with that needs someone with JS experience and who is interested in front-end frameworks such as React and Angular."I call them: "Hey that job sounds really cool. I'm working at a company building apps in JS and Jquery and have a little bit of React experience under my belt as well." "Hey. So it turns out they're looking for someone more mid-level. Can you come into our office anyway so we can discuss what you're looking for?" "Can't we just do that over the phone?" "We typically like to meet our canidates. What time is best for you?" "Idk. I work 40 hours a week"So then she basically made me look at my schedule and pick a time to meet, even though I told her I was too busy this week and next week. We're scheduled for 8AM on Monday and she's having all her co-workers come in early to meet with me. I have no plans on going to this interview. I told her I didn't have the time. And I know she probably had a manager breathing down her back telling her what to say b/c I could hear the guy in the background.
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Mar 9, 2017 16:54
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You know you can just hang up on people, right?
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Mar 9, 2017 17:34
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Yeah when I was out of college and desperate Robert Half made me drive downtown, fill out a W4, and sign an NDA just so a recruiter could tell me about a $13/hour C# position
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Mar 9, 2017 17:39
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camoseven posted:You know you can just hang up on people, right? My Irish guilt gets the best of me.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:49
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March and still no offer worth taking, so thanks for the tips on which consultant firms to reach out to. I did finally get the "You speak our language" Google game last night. While studying for midterms. 
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Mar 9, 2017 18:08
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camoseven posted:You know you can just hang up on people, right? "Sorry, I'm no longer looking. Please remove me from whatever lists." I have to do this with Robert Half every few years.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:57
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I hate headhunters. Except the one cool lady who contacted me and we had a lovely chat and she has helped me out a ton. I wish I saved the one voicemail I got that was so bad. My speech to text function for my voicemails thought the guy was speaking Spanish.  
huhu fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 20:13
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I'm unemployed and have an interview with a company 10 minutes from my house at a 20% raise from what I was making before. It's the first opportunity I've had that wasn't a 45 minute commute and is actually based out of this city. It's a 6-month contract for doing C# API integration on an ecommerce platform for a loving MLM. I don't know if I should do that. 
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Mar 10, 2017 23:29
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Do you get a bonus if you recruit three more developers within the first three months?
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Mar 10, 2017 23:37
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In late capitalist America you gotta get yours and not give a poo poo who it hurts, cause late capitalist America sure as poo poo doesn't care about you. Get yourself that money and good commute, and spend your extra free time and resources helping out causes you support if you feel bad about your day job. edit: oh poo poo and you're unemployed right now? Just take it, it's only 6 months and you can look for other jobs while you're doing it.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:40
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Luigi Thirty posted:I'm unemployed and have an interview with a company 10 minutes from my house at a 20% raise from what I was making before. It's the first opportunity I've had that wasn't a 45 minute commute and is actually based out of this city. I've worked on morally worse things. A job's a job.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:51
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