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I finally started to read FoL and I am enjoying it far more than I thought I would. Hooray for low expectations. I think what helps me is that I reread the series and FoD before reading it. Rather than just focusing on plot progression generally like the first time, I found I savored the character interactions far more. And when the philosophy/poetry gets too overbearing I can skip it without the feeling I may miss out on something like the first time I read the series. Besides if you take out all that stuff you end up with a videogame power army fighting dinosaurs elves and orcs aka Sanderson.
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Jan 20, 2017 01:27
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Gravity Cant Apple posted:It doesn't get better. I'm gonna power through this one because I spent $8 on it but gently caress. What do I read next now? Read all of sanderson and kind of quit malz after book 4 or 5.
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Jan 20, 2017 05:22
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I finished OST. It started strong but the end was a little bit of a mess. Still some very good poo poo and I'm glad to see Dassem getting some chill moments. I did miss a lot of stuff How did the two powerful mages aiding the Tyrant die? What the gently caress did Caladan Brood do? but I did catch some stuff Derudan hiding as the witch, the Dragnipur Bolts. Now on my way to Blood and Bone. From the Dramatis Personae it looks like it's Ardata Rumble Time in Jakuruku (love how it sounds).
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Jan 22, 2017 03:49
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Dust of Dreams finished and......I'm really not feeling the urge to go onto the Crippled God. Maybe it's cos I've burned through the series so fast, but I can't even tell what the point of the story is anymore. The Kchain sections were amazing, the Bonehunters were better than they've ever been, and the Tool sections were as heartbreaking as I've come to expect. But, is any of that going to matter? There's so much stuff going on, but the choice of what bits Erikson decides are important are utterly confounding. The Grey Swords get all killed off screen, and then replaced with an almost identical set of characters, from a different but almost identical culture. MoI ends with the feeling that both the Grey swords and the former-tenescowri are going to undergo some fundamental transformations. But that potential story just gets thrown away and new people conjured up from nothing to take their place. I couldn't tell you anything about the Perish beyond "there's some bullshit politics that the Grey helms don't care about" And the Crippled God - we've had 7 books of him being referred to only by his title, and then his name just gets dropped into conversation casually, and he's some prick we've never heard of before. Why tease some mystery by witholding that? And if the largest part of him fell on Letheras than why has his manifestation there been so shockingly underwhelming compared to the rest of the world? And Olar Ethil is Burn. What? How? How does the Fire/Light Warren have anything to do with the earth? How can she be the sleeping goddess if she's up and doing stuff? What was all the point of the prophecy and warm gooey symbolism about Fire and Light and the Errant if it's just gonna get ignored? Does any of this come together? Or do I have another ten books of meaningless speculation to go through?
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Jan 22, 2017 22:00
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Don't believe her lies
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Jan 22, 2017 23:42
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And finish Crippled God. Its great.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:02
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Hand Row posted:Don't believe her lies Pretty much this. Everybody lies. And those who don't are usually wrong.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:04
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Strom Cuzewon posted:but I can't even tell what the point anymore This goon became a Malazan Veteran. The answer? You just guard the goons beside you, soldier. That's all you'll truly have.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:54
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The Crippled God is really great it has a really short build up, and then BOOM like 99% of the book are several epic Erikson style convergences. It's a thrilling and spellbinding read that ties up a helluva lot without disappointing the reader like end of series so often do. It does stuff like make you care about both the Shake and the Snake something I never thought I would. Seriously if you burned through the series and thought it was good then I'm more worried about you forgetting to eat and finishing the book in one sitting than not loving it.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:30
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Confirming that at least this reader hated the Snake and grew to love them by the end of the Crippled God.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:39
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Note: Olar Ethil is explicitly not Burn as of FoD. Most of that actually does get wrapped up in TCG. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 22:55
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zokie posted:The Crippled God is really great it has a really short build up, and then BOOM like 99% of the book are several epic Erikson style convergences. I actually really like the Shake, and the outsider perspective you get of the Malazans on Shake Island is priceless. The snake....eh less so. I was really excited when I figured out the Ribbers were Forkrul Assail. Then it turns out the Ribbers are dogs, and the Forkrul are Quitters. :mystery: Although the cannibalism gave me absolute chills.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:35
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I actually really like the Shake, and the outsider perspective you get of the Malazans on Shake Island is priceless.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:37
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Then it turns out the Ribbers are dogs, and the Forkrul are Quitters. :mystery:
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Jan 24, 2017 00:40
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Infinite Karma posted:I think the trick is that Quitters are supposed to be kidspeak (which is itself chilling, with how grim the Snake plotline is) for "Quieters." Which sounds a lot more like a nickname for the Forkrul Assail. That makes sense too, but I always thought it was for Inquisitors.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:17
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Oh god that makes so much sense. I feel a weird urge to show you all my educational certificates now.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:30
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Infinite Karma posted:I think the trick is that Quitters are supposed to be kidspeak (which is itself chilling, with how grim the Snake plotline is) for "Quieters." Which sounds a lot more like a nickname for the Forkrul Assail. I'm pretty sure it's actually Inquisitors
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Jan 24, 2017 01:37
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cptn_dr posted:That makes sense too, but I always thought it was for Inquisitors.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:45
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Never thought of it that way. I always thought it was because they were quiting on the world.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:16
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They killed their God because he wasn't holy enough for them so just quitting the whole world makes a kind of sense
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Jan 24, 2017 05:15
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Yeah, I'm sure those kids were thinking along those same lines.
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Jan 24, 2017 15:57
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in the deck of dragons I am The King of Poop and Pee
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Jan 24, 2017 16:05
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:in the deck of dragons I am The King of Poop and Pee Mods, please change my name to Mage of Butts.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:48
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blurb posted:Returning readers to the turbulent early history of what would become the Malazan Empire, the second chapter in Ian C. Esslemont's thrilling new epic fantasy sequence . . . I heard dancer's lament was pretty good but haven't gotten around to it yet. Ice is putting them out at twice the rate Erikson has lately, too.
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Jan 28, 2017 06:20
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Ice is putting them out at twice the rate Erikson has lately, too. Well, they do say that you have can quantity or quality, but not both...
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Feb 1, 2017 18:48
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Found Gothos on Blood and Bone, what a pleasant surprise. One question tho, is he the Top Dog of Magic?
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Feb 20, 2017 00:58
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It's been a few weeks since I finished tCG, and I've been chewing it over and over since then. And I've reached a very simple conclusion. I do not understand Malazan. Give me something like Prince of Nothing or aSoiaF and I can (and will!) pontificate about what those books are all about, what the author is trying to do, where I think he hasn't made his point, where I disagree with his point, etc etc. I get those books. But I cannot get my head around Malazan. I had almost a thousand words rambling about this, but it all comes down to the chekov's roulette he does. Erikson talks about how he delights in swamping the reader with chekov's guns, so as to keep you guessing and surprised when one of them actual goes off. But the choice of guns just confuses me. Throughout the series there are these great big flags pointing out This Will Be Important later. poo poo like: Gothol and Kallor joining the House of Chains Leomon running away with QoD Kuralad Galain opening in Coral Hood wants a wife (EE-I-AL-EE-OO) Otataral explosives are a bad, bad idea The Refugiam, Rud Ellale The Nachts and their shenanigans with Grub and some sword they threw in the water Edgewalker, and the implied link between the Barghast and the warren of shadow Scillara giving birth to a Child of the Dead Seed All of which just drop out of the story, never to be mentioned again. Frankly, it feels insulting. The series sells itself as rewarding attention to detail and speculation. And when I pour more effort into reading and understanding these background elements than I have for any other fantasy series, the book discards them and throws yet more stuff at me. Or kills off key figures offscreen, only to replace them with identical characters (the Perish plot only makes sense to me when I assume Erikson wrote it all as a continuation of the Grey Helms/Tenescowri, only to realise he'd massacred them between books). I understand that the series is meant to just be a window into the Malazan world, just dipping into a portion of its history. And that there are yet more books I haven't read. But "Book of the Fallen" is still one series, Erikson says it has an arc (if I had to summarise it, I'd say the whole story is simply "Kellanved manipulates ascendants to force a changing of the guard"). But the supposed "climax" of the series is between forces that are only introduced halfway through book 9. The Errant basically takes on the role of series villain (in the sense that he was responsible for the climactic confrontation) and he literally vanishes right at the end. Same with Mallick Rell/Korbolo Dom - two of the most hateful characters in fantasy fiction, an absolute masterpiece in building up antagonists - who the books literally and metaphorically decide to run away from for poorly explained reasons. It reminds me of the backlash to Mass Effect 3 and the "lots of speculation" - yes, there's a multitude of hints and insinuations throughout the series, but so few of them come to fruition that I feel like I'm being forced to imagine a story, instead of being told one.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:45
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Some of those things are addressed in ICE's books, others come up in the Kharkanas Trilogy. Not much is actually dropped. I'm sure the planned books will come back to even more that feels unfinished now. Also some of those things you're remembering mistakenly. Scillara never had a child of the dead seed and Hood is avenging a dead wife, not looking for one.
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Mar 16, 2017 18:45
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Gravity Cant Apple posted:Some of those things are addressed in ICE's books, others come up in the Kharkanas Trilogy. Not much is actually dropped. I'm sure the planned books will come back to even more that feels unfinished now. House of Chains explicitly mentions that Scillara's rapist ejaculates at the moment of his death - coming straight after Memories of Ice it's something that leaped out at me. And then I spent the rest of her storyline expecting it to become relevant, and then it never does. As to Hood: Bonehunters posted:‘Hunt? Oh yes, we all hunt, but I was closest! Piss on Hood’s bony feet! Pluck out the hairs of his nose and kick his teeth in! Drive a spear up his puckered behind and set him on a windy mountain top! Oh, I’ll find him a wife some day, lay coin on it! But first, I hunt!’ So I guess I took that a bit too literally - he's not specifically looking for a wife, just something the Second throws in to his ranting.
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Mar 16, 2017 19:37
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Strom Cuzewon posted:House of Chains explicitly mentions that Scillara's rapist ejaculates at the moment of his death - coming straight after Memories of Ice it's something that leaped out at me. And then I spent the rest of her storyline expecting it to become relevant, and then it never does. I dont think this is right. Isn't her baby daddy the blue skinned dude? The right hand of Korbolo whose name I can never remember?
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Mar 16, 2017 19:51
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Spermy Smurf posted:I dont think this is right. Isn't her baby daddy the blue skinned dude? The right hand of Korbolo whose name I can never remember? Kamist Reloe? Scillara identifies one of the napans as the father, cant remember which. It's irrelevant really who the father is, which is sort of the point im trying to make. We have the graphically described rape scene that very strongly evokes the Tenescowri. I don't known how anyone can come away from HoC and not be convinced that Scillara is carrying a child of the dead seed, it was that clear to me. And then nothing comes of it. Basically I dont feel like Erikson is rewarding the level of attention and theorising the series seems to demand. It's like the difference between Agatha Christie and Sherlock Holmes - Im coming to his books with the expectation that if i pay attention and properly think about the events and ideas he's hinting at that i'll be able to solve some of the mystery, that there'll be some sort of cathartic moment when everything falls into place. Instead there's just more dangling threads, more half formed plots, and I get the same answer I got 3 million words ago: "Read more books"
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Mar 16, 2017 20:10
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Spermy Smurf posted:I dont think this is right. Isn't her baby daddy the blue skinned dude? The right hand of Korbolo whose name I can never remember? You are thinking of Korbolo Dom? Many of the complaints are handled by Esselmont: Leoman House of Chains other members Kallor The Refugium is also handled and tied up if you ask me Hood doesn't want a wife, that is just mad rambling and maybe implying Hood should stop grieving and finding someone new? Edgewalker is going to be a mystery and a lot of factions have a "claim" to shadow And don't the Andii take the Terrondai with them when they leave Coral? And I think a big reason the children of the dead seed are hosed up are because their mom's are craaaazy and the are part of the Tenescowri. I mean growing up there is only going to fill you with hosed up poo poo leaving an empty s shell when you meet the Redeemer. I'd say that growing up in a small village with several old ladies taking care of you is quite different. And there are a ton of hidden stuff or connections that are really only noticeable on a 2nd read through. Like the Edur raiding Gennabackis in HoC and finding the corpse of the dude Mael crushed in the end of MT... zokie fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 20:14
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There are too many plot threads for them all to be tied up neatly, for better or worse. Those tied up in the ICE books aren't even necessarily tied up well. Given you read the whole series you must have found some redeeming features so I guess I'll recommend you FoD to read. Your complaints are not unwarranted or uncommon. I guess when I read the series I was just happy to let go of my expectations and go with the flow of the narrative. dishwasherlove fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 22:36
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The issue with dangling plot threads always struck me as a feature/consequence/result of it being so heavily inspired by a sprawling series of tabletop games. That sort of expansive narrative where things pop up and vanish sometimes without apparent rhyme or reason is pretty common in long form rpg campaigns from my experience. Whether that's bad or not comes down to personal preference though. I quite like it, though others obviously aren't fans.
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Mar 16, 2017 22:53
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dishwasherlove posted:. Given you read the whole series you must have found some redeeming features And how! I know I bitch and whine a lot in this thread, but the fact that I keep coming back to this series despite how bloody angry it makes me is a testament to how drat good they are when it hits home. I think nearly all my complaints would be resolved if it was structured in a more digestible format. If it was a bunch of trilogies (Genebackis, Seven Cities, Malaz Central) that sort of overlapped and followed on from each other I doubt I'd have any problems with it. And it wouldn't feel like so much of a plot treadmill. To balance out my moaning, here's something that I really liked: Zombie Jaghut - the vagueness of their background really worked for me, because the whole idea behind them is that their outsiders dropped into the middle of things. And I really liked how slightly alien their sense of humour was - I don't think I actually laughed at any of their bits, but I definitely see how it could be funny from a certain point of view. So: Who is the funniest character in the series? And why?
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Mar 16, 2017 23:44
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Kamist Reloe? Scillara identifies one of the napans as the father, cant remember which. The Children of the Dead Seed are specifically part of the Pamion Domin invader culture, not something that has weight along the whole Malazan world. Scillara doesn't know who the Pamion Domin are, neither does anyone else in Seven Cities. Scillara's pregnancy story isn't a big mystery or anything. She carries a child to birth that she neither wants nor cares for, even as she knows she's expected to care for it and even as other characters like L'oric try to make her care for it. Not every story has to be a mystery. The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Mar 17, 2017 |
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Mar 17, 2017 01:05
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The Ninth Layer posted:Scillara's pregnancy story isn't a big mystery or anything. She carries a child to birth that she neither wants nor cares for, even as she knows she's expected to care for it and even as other characters like L'oric try to make her care for it. Not every story has to be a mystery. Correct. Which is why it's weird to me that we have the scene which suggests it is a mystery. It so strongly recreates the rites of the Domin, and it set up the expectation that there was some significance to how the kid is conceived. Im not saying that he's literally a member of the PD, that would be mental. But Erikson foreshadows that there is something more going on than just a simple pregnancy, which left me feeling slightly deflated when he never follows up on it. It's an illustration of my frustration with his chekovs roulette - lining up a surplus of further plots just to keep the reader guessing about what's going to happen next. I actually really like Scillara's plot. It's a much smaller, human tragedy in the midst of all the world changing epicness.
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Mar 17, 2017 09:29
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Or it's just one of the many details he adds to make the world seem larger and more real. Not everything needs a conclusion or a reason for being there, even if we want it to.
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Mar 18, 2017 20:54
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latinotwink1997 posted:Not everything needs a conclusion or a reason for being there, even if we want it to. Disagree. He needed a good editor.
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Mar 20, 2017 14:21
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Correct. Which is why it's weird to me that we have the scene which suggests it is a mystery. It so strongly recreates the rites of the Domin, and it set up the expectation that there was some significance to how the kid is conceived. Im not saying that he's literally a member of the PD, that would be mental. But Erikson foreshadows that there is something more going on than just a simple pregnancy, which left me feeling slightly deflated when he never follows up on it. I'm fairly certain its Korbolo Dom's child. His dusky blue skin is noted almost every time he's in a scene and the child has blue skin.
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Mar 20, 2017 21:29
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