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Sarcophallus posted:A Regular is defined as someone chosen by Headon to climb the Tower within Zahard's little system of tests and administrators. An Irregular is anyone who isn't a Regular. We have three groups, regulars who were chosen by Headon to climb the tower, people living in the tower and under it's rules, and irregulars. Irregulars have the right to takes tests administered by the guardians, which sets them apart as special. Lots of powerful people fall into the category of tower natives that are not regulars or irregulars. Jaina Zahard, the one with the Opera, never bothered to climb the tower. Most of the people from the workshop don't seem to climb the tower either and they can move from floor to floor. They were the ones who built the hell train that was around when Jahad and party were first climbing.
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Mar 30, 2017 12:22
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| # ? May 20, 2024 13:46 |
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With how long it takes to climb the Tower, it'd be no surprise if they'd built a civilization long before they'd finished. Climbing may have become more of a hobby. Makes them using the Hell Train to skip a few floors a lot more plausible.
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Mar 30, 2017 12:33
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I mean heck, they never actually finished. Zahard stopped and settled down to be king of his little world.
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Mar 30, 2017 12:40
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Yeah my favorite part about this setting is that absolutely no one has managed to climb the whole tower and we actually have no idea how big it is.
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Mar 30, 2017 13:31
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Two Tone Shoes posted:I mean heck, they never actually finished. Zahard stopped and settled down to be king of his little world. Well, to be fair 135 (or whatever) regions the size of North America isn't that small! I wonder is there are people (as opposed to guardians/monsters) native to the floors above Zahard's empire.
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Mar 30, 2017 13:34
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I still giggle thinking about Yuri's little ball/communicator thing (complete with her red spikey hair piece) harassing Endorsi.
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Mar 30, 2017 14:08
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http://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-244/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=325 Rachel did nothing wrong. More seriously, it's interesting to see Baam finally move on. Too bad it seems pretty clear that he is walking along the exact same path Jahad did.
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Apr 3, 2017 05:51
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Ah yes, the cathartic reversal. Rachel's sudden inclusion in the test makes me feel a bit more confident in my little thorn theory.
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Apr 3, 2017 12:35
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Maybe it's just the proximity to the Arlene Grace stuff but it feels like Bam has really come into his own, MC-wise, these days.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:09
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It's certainly a far sight better than the hell train boarding arc where he didn't progress at all.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:23
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HE DID IT. OUR CINNAMON BUN FINALLY DID IT. The sky's the limit for Baam now! Any episode where Rachel gets BTFO is a drat good episode. I like how she isn't even trying to hide her hate for Baam now. And I think I've posted this before, but in light of what we know now, it makes perfect sense why she hates him and even though she'll use everyone else never even considered the idea of using him. Because he's the chosen one and she's not, no matter how hard she tries, and that grinds her gears so hard.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:02
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was disappointed we didn't get to see her fall even if she used a lighthouse to save herself
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Apr 3, 2017 15:13
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Gologle posted:HE DID IT. OUR CINNAMON BUN FINALLY DID IT. The sky's the limit for Baam now! Any episode where Rachel gets BTFO is a drat good episode. I like how she isn't even trying to hide her hate for Baam now. And I think I've posted this before, but in light of what we know now, it makes perfect sense why she hates him and even though she'll use everyone else never even considered the idea of using him. Because he's the chosen one and she's not, no matter how hard she tries, and that grinds her gears so hard. She clearly doesn't hate Baam. She refused to kill him in the Hell Train game, after all. I think she just hated her life more than anything and Baam's kind of a representation of that. She also thought she could abuse his attachment to her again and failed miserably since Baam's got a new purpose. That said I think she's going to win this game.
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Apr 3, 2017 16:11
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It makes more thematic sense I think for Rachel to get a thorn so that she actually sort of matters, and then later on at the end she'll receive a mortal blow so she can give it to Baam to go fight Jahad or whatever in some dramatic scene. It would also make thematic sense for her to fail miserably as well tho.
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Apr 3, 2017 16:28
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Two Tone Shoes posted:She clearly doesn't hate Baam. She refused to kill him in the Hell Train game, after all. I think she just hated her life more than anything and Baam's kind of a representation of that. If she doesn't hate Baam, at the least she hates that he's special and she's not.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:12
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Khun is going to be so happy when he finds out about what just happened. Also it seems like Baam has an actual plan. Khun's really rubbing off on him.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:23
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I'm gonna be real sad when the last chapter is just Baam back in the room at the bottom of the tower but this time he has a horn
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Apr 3, 2017 17:32
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Tower of god: New game +
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Apr 3, 2017 17:50
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Shugojin posted:I'm gonna be real sad when the last chapter is just Baam back in the room at the bottom of the tower but this time he has a horn baam had the horn the entire time he was there
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Apr 3, 2017 18:06
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Gologle posted:If she doesn't hate Baam, at the least she hates that he's special and she's not. Yeah, I think that was evident with her "drat destiny!" remark. She's clearly fully aware of what Baam was supposed to be. I'm imagining she just saw a young boy with no ambition or power like a child of prophecy should and took it up on herself. Now she's been thoroughly proven wrong and it's all her fault. If only her actual goal were to get to the top and see real stars. I'm sure Baam would've loved to carry her weak rear end up the tower like the original plan.
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Apr 3, 2017 19:21
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Before I discovered this thread I never picked up on how creepily possessive Baam was of Rachael and I was pretty firmly in the "gently caress Rachael" camp. After the last few chapters though? I'm honestly rooting for her. Not to say she did nothing wrong because she's done some horrible poo poo, burned a lot of bridges, and most of the cast hates her. But poo poo, look at what she's trying to compete with here! Baam is basically a monster. He's a natural prodigy with shinsoo, he's great at everything he attempts, because he's a prodigy with shinsoo he's incredibly strong in a fight, he's literally a blue mage from final fantasy who can learn anything (physical or shinsoo) by watching it, being hit by it, or having it explained. And because of this, he keeps attracting people to his side interested in seeing where his path leads him, people that are no slouches themselves on the power scale. And now, he's apparently also the Main Character as fortold by destiny and prophesy. It's hard to stay mad at Rachael when one side is painfully average and the other can create black holes and is telling the other side to gently caress off so he can get even stronger.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:18
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Wrist Watch posted:Before I discovered this thread I never picked up on how creepily possessive Baam was of Rachael and I was pretty firmly in the "gently caress Rachael" camp. Baam's obsession with Rachel isn't creepy. It's not creepy to obsess over the only person you've ever known for 99% of your life. Baam's personality is modeled after what she taught him and how reliant he was on her. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 20:25
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The problem with giving Rachel a benefit of the doubt due to Baam's insane power is that all of that power could have been hers if she hadn't tried to murder him. She could have been leading the walking shinsoo chosen one along by the nose, but nope, she just couldn't stand the fact that he didn't suck as much as she did. If she can't be the chosen one, nobody can be the chosen one. People who flip the Monopoly game aren't to be rooted for.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:56
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Also the part where she does evil stuff and works with even eviler people makes it hard to root for her. I like her as an antagonist though!
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Apr 3, 2017 20:59
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Fair enough, that's just how I see it myself but I can understand it not being that way for other people. I dunno, the story's just poo poo on her so much lately that she's gone from antagonist to underdog for me.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:05
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Wrist Watch posted:Fair enough, that's just how I see it myself but I can understand it not being that way for other people. I dunno, the story's just poo poo on her so much lately that she's gone from antagonist to underdog for me. I get the vibe she's going to be somewhat akin to Beta, in that she had no real control over her fate/destiny/circumstance and is trying desperately to break free from that fate no matter what it costs anyone else. She'll probably have tragic circumstances eventually revealed which helps us to understand her stated goals, why she betrayed Baam, and so on and so forth. SIU seems to really like that in his antagonists. Nobody's inherently evil, they just dislike their circumstances and turn towards evil actions to fight against fate, or are told to do evil actions by the 10 families, etc etc etc. We've seen it quite a few times already and it feels like Rachel's just going to be another instance of it.
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Apr 3, 2017 23:12
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Baam's obsession with Rachel isn't creepy. It's not creepy to obsess over the only person you've ever known for 99% of your life. Baam's personality is modeled after what she taught him and how reliant he was on her. While you are correct, that doesn't mean it can't be creepy. And it is. Nowhere has Baam's fixation on Rachel ever been portrayed as a good thing, and a good example of the creepiness is when Rachel first boarded the Hell Train, Baam saw her, and was like "nah Rachel, we're going back. I don't care what you want, we're going back."
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Apr 3, 2017 23:28
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Gologle posted:While you are correct, that doesn't mean it can't be creepy. And it is. Nowhere has Baam's fixation on Rachel ever been portrayed as a good thing, and a good example of the creepiness is when Rachel first boarded the Hell Train, Baam saw her, and was like "nah Rachel, we're going back. I don't care what you want, we're going back." Baam is an extreme victim of abuse, abandonment and betrayal. Frankly, that he's handled it as well as he has is a miracle of fiction. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 23:33
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Baam's obsession with Rachel isn't creepy. It's not creepy to obsess over the only person you've ever known for 99% of your life. Baam's personality is modeled after what she taught him and how reliant he was on her. She's basically his mom/sister/girlfriend so the fact that he can even live without her and be around other people is a miracle.
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Apr 4, 2017 00:06
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You shouldn't really sympathize with Rachel. She can't poop lasers like other irregulars but she's blessed in her own way. She's deceptively smart, at least as tenacious as Baam, and circumstances end up in her favor. Baam constantly makes friends/has people who thinks he's handsome but Rachel is able to surround herself with talented people as well.
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Apr 4, 2017 00:13
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I want Rachel to acquire a harem of handsome FUG boys.
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Apr 4, 2017 00:18
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Do we know that Karaka's male?
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Apr 4, 2017 00:27
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I don't think we're even sure whether that's Karaka's skin or some sort of armor, lot of open questions there. Anyway, the Rachel/Baam relationship is obviously super hosed up for both of them. He was creepy about her and it was perfectly understandable given the circumstances. He's growing out of that, maybe she can too.
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Apr 4, 2017 00:57
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IIRC it's a mask. He told Ha Jinsung he wouldn't show his face to people he doesn't trust, or something like that.
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Apr 4, 2017 01:16
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That sounds vaguely familiar now that you mention it - I don't suppose you remember ballpark which chapter that was?
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Apr 4, 2017 01:38
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ok it was more like the last chapter before the workshop battle arc. season 2 ch: 35 Tipme fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 02:04
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Hypocrisy posted:You shouldn't really sympathize with Rachel. She can't poop lasers like other irregulars but she's blessed in her own way. She's deceptively smart, at least as tenacious as Baam, and circumstances end up in her favor. I'm not saying you're wrong or that we can't have different opinions on this but I can't resist playing devil's advocate with that.  Rachael:
Baam:
E: vvvv True, edited to be fair Wrist Watch fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 02:47
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There are a few things he can't copy, however. The only one I know off the top of my head is the Arie family's sword technique.
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Apr 4, 2017 03:03
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Wrist Watch posted:I'm not saying you're wrong or that we can't have different opinions on this but I can't resist playing devil's advocate with that. Yeah but then Rachel tried to cripple Dan purely because he was better at something than she was despite having already duped him and Khun. It's not just about Baam being powerful and special. Her inferiority complex extends to everyone else. She hates Khun not just because Khun mistrusts and hates her, but because he's smarter than her. She hated Dan because he was smug about the one thing he was good at. And yes, she seems to have some resentment for Baam because he's the child of prophecy (with all the cool powers that come with it) and she's not. This insecurity and inferiority is why she's at odds with Baam. If she could've accepted that she wasn't the most important person in the universe then she wouldn't be in these underdog positions, she could've been climbing with Baam. I'm sure FUG wouldn't have minded her being the lightbearer for the team if that's what she wanted -- but FUG was also aware that she wanted to be the heroine of the story, not just another person climbing the tower. I mean who knows how things actually turn out if she doesn't betray Baam -- everything was compromised by FUG from the start. But we've seen enough of her since to know her situation is caused largely by her own ego. And she's lucked into plenty on top of that, otherwise she wouldn't have gotten past the second floor. And I think it's also important not to forget what Headon said of Rachel at the very beginning. What made Baam special wasn't just his luck/fate that drew Yuri to him, or his power that ignited Black March. It's that he was willing to charge headlong into certain death to chase his dream (simple as it was). Rachel wasn't. She whined and complained about how everything was unfair to her long before Baam was this unstoppable shinsoo minigod. That dichotomy is paralleled all the way through. Baam was a genuine and good person who drew others to him through his kindness and gentle nature long before he was fighting rankers -- how much of that is prophecy/fate, who knows? But I think it's funny that most of Baam's good nature comes from Rachel teaching him yet Rachel has none of that in herself. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 04:03
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I was mostly joking with that, but the points you bring up are really good. You're absolutely right, and it's kind of why I'm rooting for her. I had another post about it that mentioned a bunch of the same stuff you said, but my phone ate it I guess. She wants to be the "chosen one" but because of destiny or whatever she's not, and her entire arc is kind of built around that she's painfully average and will never be able to play that role. But every attempt she's made to insert herself into that role has basically inadvertantly helped the actual Main Character and it's kind of grown into this huge mess where because she's burned so many bridges it's too late to stop so the only thing to do is keep going. The stuff with Dan was petty, but I can understand how a character dealing with her issues could snap like that. Like I said, I'm not denying she's done some heinous poo poo, I'm just appreciating how well written her character's arc is.
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Apr 4, 2017 05:59
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