|
POOL IS CLOSED posted:This isn't very FOOFy, but does anyone know why it's so difficult to get high concentrations of acetic acid in the US? Not even anhydrous/ glacial acetic acid, but like 80% acetic acid (which is recommended to beekeepers as a fumigation agent for woodware beehives that may harbor the nosema fungus). I'm guessing it must have some sort of drug making application since I can't imagine anyone making a sufficiently powerful explosive even with the best combo of super vinegar and baking soda. I mean, acetic anhydride is one of the components of making acetylsalicylic acid, aka aspirin. It's also enough of an irritant even at modest concentrations to warrant a fume hood, and outright corrosive at higher concentrations.
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 08:20 |
|
|
Olesh posted:I mean, acetic anhydride is one of the components of making acetylsalicylic acid, aka aspirin. It's also enough of an irritant even at modest concentrations to warrant a fume hood, and outright corrosive at higher concentrations. POOL IS CLOSED posted:This isn't very FOOFy, but does anyone know why it's so difficult to get high concentrations of acetic acid in the US? Not even anhydrous/ glacial acetic acid, but like 80% acetic acid (which is recommended to beekeepers as a fumigation agent for woodware beehives that may harbor the nosema fungus). I'm guessing it must have some sort of drug making application since I can't imagine anyone making a sufficiently powerful explosive even with the best combo of super vinegar and baking soda.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
It's a pretty strong acid with all the fun that entails. There's not really any consumer applications for 80% acetic acid so they don't really sell it for consumer use I guess?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 17:04
|
|
|
This reminds me, I should get a gallon of vinegar and a significant quantity of baking soda to make some crystalline sodium acetate to put on food. Salt 'n Vinegar flavor 
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 17:18
|
|
|
POOL IS CLOSED posted:This isn't very FOOFy, but does anyone know why it's so difficult to get high concentrations of acetic acid in the US? Not even anhydrous/ glacial acetic acid, but like 80% acetic acid (which is recommended to beekeepers as a fumigation agent for woodware beehives that may harbor the nosema fungus). I'm guessing it must have some sort of drug making application since I can't imagine anyone making a sufficiently powerful explosive even with the best combo of super vinegar and baking soda. You can though! Triacetone Triperoxide is what was used in the London bombings.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 17:32
|
|
|
Gobbeldygook posted:Acetic anhydride is completely different from acetic acid. Acetic anhydride is a DEA List 2 chemical. Acetic acid does have some drug manufacturing uses but nothing particularly mainstream. My bad on the anhydride thing. I assume that means that acetic anhydride wouldn't be made from acetic acid? Why's it a DEA list 2 chemical, out of curiousity? I remember doing a synthesis of aspirin back in high school; is there some synthesis involving acetic anhydride to make meth or something? Is there a different aspirin synthesis that we would have done?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 17:41
|
|
|
Acetic anhydride is used when making heroin. e: Used to add acetyl groups to morphine more specifically.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 17:52
|
|
|
Olesh posted:My bad on the anhydride thing. I assume that means that acetic anhydride wouldn't be made from acetic acid? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEA_list_of_chemicals
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 17:57
|
|
|
GenericOverusedName posted:A lot of chemical names are basically just german compound words that describe the structure, if it follows standard naming conventions. Hardest part for that compound is the first part on the right, isowurtzitane. It is describing the shape of the weird carbon cage, but that's not something you run into often like an propyl group or whatever so it's a weird word for a weird cage. After that you have hexa (6) aza (aromatic nitrogen stuff), so six nitrogens in that cage structure replacing some of the carbons, and then hexa (6) nitro groups attached to it. I know but I don't have a chemistry background so a lot of the stuff doesn't really stick 
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 18:26
|
|
|
Olesh posted:I mean, acetic anhydride is one of the components of making acetylsalicylic acid, aka aspirin. It's also enough of an irritant even at modest concentrations to warrant a fume hood, and outright corrosive at higher concentrations. I can pick up muriatic acid from my local lumberyard and all sorts of hellishly flammable and noxious paint solvents from the local general store though. I can get high concentrations of liquid ammonia in gallon jugs for cleaning ovens too. I don't need to jump through any particular hoops to do so. Gobbeldygook posted:Acetic anhydride is completely different from acetic acid. Acetic anhydride is a DEA List 2 chemical. Acetic acid does have some drug manufacturing uses but nothing particularly mainstream. This is what I ended up doing before I posted. It was pretty much the only place I could order from that wasn't a sketchy eBay supplier! I was a little surprised that no one local could supply it, and all the listings on Amazon were I stocked or unavailable for shipment to the US. Next week is "fun with acids" week. AA is for Quitters posted:You can though! Triacetone Triperoxide is what was used in the London bombings. The world's worst vinegar baking soda bomb?  Thanks for setting me straight!Vitamins posted:Acetic anhydride is used when making heroin. Weird! Thank you. I'll update if anything interesting happens when I use the acid. Let's hope that it's boring and that I handle it safely. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
AA is for Quitters posted:You can though! Triacetone Triperoxide is what was used in the London bombings.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
darthbob88 posted:Actually, TATP is acetone and peroxide, not acetic acid. You still can't do anything too interesting with acetic acid. And acetone itself is totally uncontrolled. I making TATP was such a concern that they made acetic acid hard to get, you'd think you wouldn't be able to buy 100% acetone at hardware stores and pharmacies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 22:23
|
|
|
POOL IS CLOSED posted:This isn't very FOOFy, but does anyone know why it's so difficult to get high concentrations of acetic acid in the US? Not even anhydrous/ glacial acetic acid, but like 80% acetic acid (which is recommended to beekeepers as a fumigation agent for woodware beehives that may harbor the nosema fungus). I'm guessing it must have some sort of drug making application since I can't imagine anyone making a sufficiently powerful explosive even with the best combo of super vinegar and baking soda. it works as a shittier heroin precursor if you can't get anhydride
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
Acetic acid is controlled to cheapen the public's taste for good vinaigrettes after lobbying by Big Salad.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 22:39
|
|
|
Phanatic posted:And acetone itself is totally uncontrolled. I making TATP was such a concern that they made acetic acid hard to get, you'd think you wouldn't be able to buy 100% acetone at hardware stores and pharmacies. Which preparation of TATP are you using that involves acetic acid? Everything I've ever seen says to use Hydrochloric. I did note that you absolutely must keep the acetone/acid mixture cold, otherwise it starts fuming chloroacetone, one of the OG tear gasses. That was fun. TBH, the whole TATP preparation is a bunch of fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 23:47
|
|
|
That is a bad comment and nobody should pay attention to it, in particular people who aren't experienced synthetic chemists. Making that material is a good way to accidentally kill yourself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 00:25
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
POOL IS CLOSED posted:This isn't very FOOFy, but does anyone know why it's so difficult to get high concentrations of acetic acid in the US? Not even anhydrous/ glacial acetic acid, but like 80% acetic acid (which is recommended to beekeepers as a fumigation agent for woodware beehives that may harbor the nosema fungus). I'm guessing it must have some sort of drug making application since I can't imagine anyone making a sufficiently powerful explosive even with the best combo of super vinegar and baking soda. I work for a company in Australia that buys the stuff (90%) in 1000L pallecons. Plenty of suppliers for it. Try chemical companies that serve the food industry?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 00:36
|
|
|
B.H. Facials posted:Not as fun as Methyl Nitrate! God, chapter 1.12 in TM 31-210. We had a lot of fun with that on Coleman Demo Range at Ft. Bragg.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 02:05
|
|
|
Gobbeldygook posted:Keep in mind DEA list 2 is a pretty low bar, e.g. Hydrochloric acid which you can buy at every pool supply store is also list 2. I once asked my perpetually-sniffly SO to pick up some muriatic acid while he was out shopping, so I could get the zinc off some galvanized steel I wanted to weld; he looked it up on wikipedia and told me "no, get it yourself, I'm already buying one precursor today, I don't want to be on the higher-tier list." Can't blame him. Humbug Scoolbus posted:God, chapter 1.12 in TM 31-210. We had a lot of fun with that on Coleman Demo Range at Ft. Bragg.  to google the number and download the official US Army Anarchist's Cookbook. I have a physical copy I bought from a surplus store.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 06:20
|
|
Bad Angus! Bad!
|
You can get significant amounts of toluene and chloromethane from paint thinner via distillation (i dunno about potential azeotropes tho) And small amounts of methanol, methyl ethyl ketone and if youre lucky, tetrahydrofuran.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 09:55
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:tetrahydrofuran. Oooh, that's a fun little molecule. Username very relevant. "Wikipedia posted:One danger posed by THF follows from its tendency to form highly explosive peroxides on storage in air.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 10:29
|
|
|
There's quite a few ethers that spontaneously form explosive peroxides when stored in light or air. Finding very old bottles of the stuff is always fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 10:38
|
|
|
B.H. Facials posted:Not as fun as Methyl Nitrate! Two of my least favourite functional groups, together at last!
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2017 03:44
|
|
|
FOOF thread: dammit I made what amounts to krokodil but it makes your limbs explode TCC thread: dammit my limb exploded
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2017 08:22
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:You can get significant amounts of toluene and chloromethane from paint thinner via distillation (i dunno about potential azeotropes tho) I will always remember taking dry THF from the distillation room with a slightly leaky syringe and seeing the droplet literally cut my glove open as it went. The joys of organic solvents.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2017 13:44
|
|
|
thecluckmeme posted:FOOF thread: dammit I made what amounts to krokodil but it makes your limbs explode *Arm reduction joke here*
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
I survived diluting and fumigating with glacial acetic acid. All my fingats are as good as when the adventure started. Since my home isn't equipped with the appropriate fume hood, I used a vapor respirator plus recommended PPE and worked outside. Nothing FOOFed, much to no one's disappointment. Significantly less interesting than synthesizing my own salicylic acid. Was that a pretty common high school chemistry lab? Anyway, thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 01:50
|
|
|
I once cleaned a coffee maker with glacial acetic acid. That I diluted first.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 01:58
|
|
|
pmchem posted:I once cleaned a coffee maker with glacial acetic acid. That I diluted first.  That seems like overkill.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 02:06
|
|
|
pmchem posted:I once cleaned a coffee maker with glacial acetic acid. That I diluted first. Did you dilute it yourself?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 02:13
|
|
|
Yeah, I mean, I diluted it significantly. Hooray for chemistry. We had the coffee maker, lab next door had the acid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 02:16
|
|
|
A world where glacial acetic acid is more accessible than vinegar. A chemist's world. I won't lie, it's really tempting to make a hellish baking soda volcano, but I'm afraid of being maimed. The acetic acid goes back to the basement until I need to fumigate wood again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 02:26
|
|
|
pmchem posted:Yeah, I mean, I diluted it significantly. Hooray for chemistry. We had the coffee maker, lab next door had the acid. The safety person in me is mad at you for ignoring the "lab use only" label on the bottle. Otherwise: that's being resourceful! I find the stuff neat since it freezes at just below room temperature.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 02:35
|
|
|
i mean if the lab uses the coffeemaker, it seems like it's being used for it's intended purpose
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 05:04
|
|
|
I you want concentrated acetic acid you could distill it from regular vinegar but that would require some glassware. In other news I am planning on using HF for the first time in a week or two so this may or may not be my last post
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 11:50
|
|
|
Shikantaza posted:I you want concentrated acetic acid you could distill it from regular vinegar but that would require some glassware. I used HF like 2664 times this week. Fear it. Fear it always. Also wear lab coat, gloves, and goggles while working in a hood for all dilutions. Do not open the concentrated jug outside of a hood ever. Oh I guess don't use glass too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 12:01
|
|
|
Ignimbrite posted:Oooh, that's a fun little molecule. Username very relevant. LupusAter posted:I will always remember taking dry THF from the distillation room with a slightly leaky syringe and seeing the droplet literally cut my glove open as it went. The joys of organic solvents. Its mainly intesting for the above reason. Its an incredibly, incredibly useful solvent. I'm loathe to call it a universal solvent but it comes close.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 12:47
|
|
|
Mustached Demon posted:I used HF like 2664 times this week. Wait, Demons are supposed to give bad advice. Unless this is a overextended metaphor on the evils of OSHA, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 12:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 08:20 |
|
|
Bubblyblubber posted:Wait, Demons are supposed to give bad advice. Fine. Chug the HF. Drink it down until you no longer have teeth. Or bones.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 13:51
|
|