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The Bee posted:Forget the HIt-Vegeta "rematch." I want Cabba to beat his master, and Vegeta to die as a proud papa. Youre like the son I never had
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Sep 20, 2017 02:53
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Neo_Crimson posted:Did we all forget that Cabba casually oneshot the robot universe's captain? He's not the captain. Thats Paparoni.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:14
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you can tell because 'Papa' is in his name. He's the team dad.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:40
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He knew Nigrisshi was a loser but wanted to big him up a bit and called him the strongest. Then he got eliminated by Cabba so clearly negative reinforcement is superior.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:44
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Velisarius posted:All you people saying 'yeah, I'll be really surprised if this doesn't happen' haven't been paying attention to the show. This thread is full of people with silly opinions. Honestly I think DBS dropped the ball on making Frost a bad guy. He was more interesting when we thought he was good, but nope, hes gotta be Freeza-Lite for some reason. It would have been so much better if Frost was actually a good dude, along with the Universe 6 Saiyans being good dudes, while the U6 Namekians are evil. That would have been a nice reversal. I'm sure someone will say "No thats a dumb idea, Frost is good as Diet Freeza  ", but whatever. I try not to give too much of a poo poo about all of this, but frankly Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are superior to DBS so far. I mean, I love almost everything about those two series. I honestly think the Saiyan Arc and Freeza Arc are drat near flawless storytelling. But in Super there's just so much where I'm like "Thats kinda dumb".
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Sep 20, 2017 05:37
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Lol if you think any Dragonball arc is flawless storytelling.
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Sep 20, 2017 05:47
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CharlestheHammer posted:Lol if you think any Dragonball arc is flawless storytelling. LOL if you think I said that when I said "drat near". And it is. Though i dont feel like getting into the whys. But at any rate its better than anything in DBS so far 
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Sep 20, 2017 05:52
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Zamasu is more interesting a villain than anything in Z and original. Because they are all rather boring. As DB and Z are a mess when it comes to storytelling.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:09
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I feel like it's mostly this arc that has felt bad. The arcs up till now have been good and interesting, but more then that they've felt like they haven't been afraid to challenge Goku; we talk a lot about how he hasn't won many fights at all in DBS for various reasons, and for decent reasons; from Beerus to Hit, all these enemies have been portrayed as actual threats and not someone Goku can just walk all over in an instant. In that context these fights were thrilling. This arc is the opposite; Goku acts like these guys are supposed to be challenging but him and his team have stomped a mudhole in every person who even dared raise a finger to them so far, and even the guy presented as 'the biggest threat' has done nothing but stare menacingly from the top of a rock for several episodes. There's no tension because it's been effortless curbstomping in a way that ruins the tension of the fight and makes it feel like the guy that's supposed to be scary is going to get dumpstered just as easily. The tournament as a whole seems so unwilling to challenge U7's dominance that, literally next episode, two of it's own members are going to fight each other rather then someone from other universes, because all of the other universes have been kind of thoroughly debunked as complete incompetents who can't match up without trickery or deceit, so the only valid challenge has to come from the team not getting along and even fighting each other.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:11
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I think a lot of it is because the whole "moral level" wasn't really explained directly and was only in magazine supplementary information. Universe 7 could be the best fighting universe, they just have a lower concentration of beings.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:Zamasu is more interesting a villain than anything in Z and original. Obviously this is all up to opinion but i dont see whats so unique or cool about Zamasu. Oh another genocidal maniac, how original. The idea of a god that thinks no mortal is worthy can be interesting but not inherently more so than an alien warlord that thought he was unbeatable or a bio-engineered dude that is obsessed with being perfect and testing his strength. All of these can be boring as poo poo. But frankly Zamasu was ruined once he stole Goku's body and became another Tullece. Another evil Goku? Come the gently caress on. But Im ultimately whining about a punchman cartoon/comic book so jokes on me, I guess. As for storytelling, DB and Z are far less of a mess than DBS has turned out to be. I still maintain that the progression from Raditz to Freeza is great. Cell Arc is a little more meandery, Boo Arc is just one fight after another. Original DB is probably better than all of Z.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:26
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Blue Star posted:But frankly Zamasu was ruined once he stole Goku's body and became another Tullece. Who?
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Sep 20, 2017 06:28
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Andrast posted:Who? Adult Goten
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Sep 20, 2017 06:30
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Blue Star posted:Obviously this is all up to opinion but i dont see whats so unique or cool about Zamasu. Oh another genocidal maniac, how original. The idea of a god that thinks no mortal is worthy can be interesting but not inherently more so than an alien warlord that thought he was unbeatable or a bio-engineered dude that is obsessed with being perfect and testing his strength. All of these can be boring as poo poo. But frankly Zamasu was ruined once he stole Goku's body and became another Tullece. Another evil Goku? Come the gently caress on. But Im ultimately whining about a punchman cartoon/comic book so jokes on me, I guess. Yes having an actual clear motivation is genuinely impressive for DB. Most have either the insanely generic rule everything or ?????
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Sep 20, 2017 06:31
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bobjr posted:I think a lot of it is because the whole "moral level" wasn't really explained directly and was only in magazine supplementary information. Universe 7 could be the best fighting universe, they just have a lower concentration of beings. I thought it was painfully clear that U7, as the second worst universe in existence, had managed through its hellish trials to produce insanely strong mortals who had no business surviving or thriving like they did. They're so strong BECAUSE they have a lovely rating from being a nearly dead and morally bankrupt universe that does nothing but throw apocalypse after apocalypse at them.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:32
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Black August posted:I thought it was painfully clear that U7, as the second worst universe in existence, had managed through its hellish trials to produce insanely strong mortals who had no business surviving or thriving like they did. They're so strong BECAUSE they have a lovely rating from being a nearly dead and morally bankrupt universe that does nothing but throw apocalypse after apocalypse at them. Then there's Universe 9.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:34
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Universe 9 is when things just are poo poo. They don't deal with super apocalypses, they just have poo poo management. You can see that clearly with Freeza. If he was in their universe, or something like him, he would have taken it over in a week. Buu would have wiped out all of the Kais. Basically 9 is so bad partly BECAUSE things weren't bad enough. Most of their problems come from a Kai that was too violent and hateful and a GoD that was too soft and weak willed.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:36
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CharlestheHammer posted:Yes having an actual clear motivation is genuinely impressive for DB. Freeza's actual clear motivation was to get the Dragon Balls and wish for immortality so he could continue being a dick to the rest of the universe. Cell's actual clear motivation was to complete his evolution and test his new-found power against Goku. Both of these characters also had clear character traits: both are obviously villains who are arrogant and full of hubris but Freeza is all polite and posh but paranoid while Cell was more willing to let the heroes get stronger in the interest of a good fight (where he was still confident he'd win anyway). Not Shakespeare but those are motivations that are just as clear and succinct as Zamasu's.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:42
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For real if not for Goku and pals, if this Tournament somehow happened anyways Beerus would look around to find out there's NO LIFE ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE shortly before being erased
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Sep 20, 2017 06:43
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Cells motivation is insanely inferred and I mentioned Frieza and his boring rear end motivation
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Sep 20, 2017 06:44
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The plot of dragonball is fight
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Sep 20, 2017 06:49
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CharlestheHammer posted:Cells motivation is insanely inferred and I mentioned Frieza and his boring rear end motivation Okay. You obviously love Zamasu and thats okay 
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Sep 20, 2017 06:54
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Blue Star posted:Okay. You obviously love Zamasu and thats okay I don't actually love him, he is just clearing a fairly low bar. I love the goofy poo poo he does tho.
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Sep 20, 2017 07:03
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Andrast posted:Who? Serious answer, it's an alternate translation for Turles (that makes the vegetable naming slightly more obvious I guess).
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Sep 20, 2017 07:12
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I do agree that making Frost Frieza-lite was a bit disappointing. He's not as strong as Frieza, he's not even as evil as him, Frost is an rear end in a top hat while Frieza is a mass murdering psychopath. Frieza being back makes Frost seem entirely pointless.
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Sep 20, 2017 07:16
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mycot posted:Serious answer, it's an alternate translation for Turles (that makes the vegetable naming slightly more obvious I guess). Who?
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Sep 20, 2017 08:00
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Andrast posted:Who? Adult Goten
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Sep 20, 2017 08:01
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Andrast posted:Who? Ukog.
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Sep 20, 2017 08:26
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Rhonne posted:I do agree that making Frost Frieza-lite was a bit disappointing. He's not as strong as Frieza, he's not even as evil as him, Frost is an rear end in a top hat while Frieza is a mass murdering psychopath. Frieza being back makes Frost seem entirely pointless.
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Sep 20, 2017 08:40
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Frieza's motivation: Become immortal despite already being a nigh-indestructible freak of nature Cell's motivation: Prove he's the strongest then I guess float around the empty vacuum of space after killing any viable competition until Beerus wakes up and wastes him Buu's motivation: chocolate and puppies
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Sep 20, 2017 12:54
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Buu having such good motivations is why he gets to be everyone's friend afterwards.
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Sep 20, 2017 12:56
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Why are you being so contrarian Charles?
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Sep 20, 2017 13:02
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Frost being actually evil instead of opposite-universe Hero Frieza is boring, but Frost attempting to backstab Frieza because he mistakenly thinks they are equal parallel universe twins will be hilarious 
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Sep 20, 2017 13:06
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Blue Star posted:As for storytelling, DB and Z are far less of a mess than DBS has turned out to be. I still maintain that the progression from Raditz to Freeza is great. Cell Arc is a little more meandery, Boo Arc is just one fight after another. Original DB is probably better than all of Z. some things that are silly storytelling in DBZ, from Raditz to Frieza: Piccolo shot an energy blast at the moon and blew it up. A woman tries to steal Goku's heart and then turns into a giant snake King Kai never trains any of the dead Z warriors to use Kaioken The fact that somehow, after knowing his tail didn't incapacitate him, Goku thinks he should grab Raditz tail The fact that even after this fails, Piccolo tries to grab Nappa's tail. HELL Goku literally being able to tell Shenron to gently caress off when people wished for him to come home
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Sep 20, 2017 13:11
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Burkion posted:Universe 9 is when things just are poo poo. Something I do have to give credit to U9 for is that it's the only universe where we see the ToP for what it is: an apocalyptic horror story. There are people panicking and desperately trying to find a way to escape to another universe, and there are assholes who think they can do anything they want just because the universe is ending. It's chaotic, but the universe knowing what they're about to face is better since they have a chance to make peace with their fate, rather than going on about their day without knowing they could get erased at any moment.
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Sep 20, 2017 13:53
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Jesus Christ, dragon ball is basically Saturday morning cartoons level writing, but here we have some guy claiming it is high art. It's entertaining to watch, but that's kinda it. Claiming it is more than that is giving it too much credit. I do agree with Blue Star on one thing, and that is the lost potential in Frost. He's really boring as he is.
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Sep 20, 2017 14:19
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amigolupus posted:Something I do have to give credit to U9 for is that it's the only universe where we see the ToP for what it is: an apocalyptic horror story. There are people panicking and desperately trying to find a way to escape to another universe, and there are assholes who think they can do anything they want just because the universe is ending. How did those people find out? The gokuniverse had no idea until the last moment and that was limited to the z fighters.
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Sep 20, 2017 14:27
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Kashuno posted:some things that are silly storytelling in DBZ, from Raditz to Frieza: tbf that one kinda made sense. It was an established thing back during the Saiyan saga that anyone more powerful than the Dragon Ball creator (e.g. Kami, Little Green) can resist any wish directly affecting them, which is why they couldn't just wish Vegeta and Nappa to death
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Sep 20, 2017 14:52
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Arguably with dende in charge it's a miracle shenron can bring you a glass of water.
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Sep 20, 2017 15:09
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Blue Star posted:This thread is full of people with silly opinions. Frost as an underhanded scheming little poo poo wasn't "Frieza-lite". Classic Frieza was always upfront and honest about his intentions. Maybe modern Frieza is Frost-lite? I haven't seen many of his episodes. Mordaedil posted:Jesus Christ, dragon ball is basically Saturday morning cartoons level writing, but here we have some guy claiming it is high art. All art has meaning.
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Sep 20, 2017 15:40
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