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sexpig by night posted:I think in the Saiyan saga Vegeta made some reference about his Galick Gun being able to wipe out cities or something but that was probably just Vegeta being Vegeta considering we've never actually seen it. the entire point of him using the gallick gun was he was gonna blow up the planet you blockhead
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Sep 21, 2017 15:10
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Kamehamehas, Garlic Gun, Final Flash are all giant ki dump blasts that blow up at the end, which is why they never aim them down at the planet when doing it. Finger beams, Makankosappo, kienzan are putting a lot of ki in a tiny space in order to pierce someone. Masenko is, I have no idea, it's like some mix of the two, I guess.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:53
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Blue Star posted:broly IS a bad character. DBGT IS bad. Broly being good is the hill I'll die on. GT is definitely worse than Super, but I'd argue it has more redeeming elements; Super doesn't have cool characters like Super 17 and Blue pales in comparison to SSJ4.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:11
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My headcanon (not headcannon, that's Masenko  ) is that ki attacks in DBZ are basically either steady energy beams, explosive blasts or super-concentrated piercing BS, and all the different attacks are just what people came up with to do the same BS. Masenko is just Piccolo's Kamehameha, Gohan started doing the latter after he trained with Goku and as sort of a gently caress you to Cell. Same logic applies to Makankosappo and Dodonpa, or Light Grenade and Big Bang Attack. So yeah, it's what that dude said about energy attacks being like guns, they can do different poo poo and serve different purposes but at the end of the day they all shoot bullets to gently caress someone up.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:13
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TenCentFang posted:Broly being good is the hill I'll die on. GT is definitely worse than Super, but I'd argue it has more redeeming elements; Super doesn't have cool characters like Super 17 and Blue pales in comparison to SSJ4. You might be the only person in existence to call Super 17 cool. Especially since we now have the actual 17 in the story and he's been one of the best characters this arc.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:14
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TenCentFang posted:Broly being good is the hill I'll die on. GT is definitely worse than Super, but I'd argue it has more redeeming elements; Super doesn't have cool characters like Super 17 and Blue pales in comparison to SSJ4. Super has Android 17 who is infinitely superior to Super 17 so hey.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:15
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TenCentFang posted:Broly being good is the hill I'll die on. GT is definitely worse than Super, but I'd argue it has more redeeming elements; Super doesn't have cool characters like Super 17 and Blue pales in comparison to SSJ4. You ruined that post by calling Super 17 cool. Especially since regular 17 is killing it.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:15
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Broly is a terrible character with some good scenes of him just being one of the most crushingly overpowered villains the series ever produced to the point where at the end they realized they had no idea how anyone was actually going to beat him so they pulled the dumbest poo poo out of their asses. Like for people who like no-sell villains, Broly is your dude. He's fun, and completely stupid and I love my big, dumb green son.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:16
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So far I've found Super's 17 extremely bland and personality-less, which is all the more crushing since he was the main reason I was looking forward to the current arc.Glagha posted:Broly is a terrible character with some good scenes of him just being one of the most crushingly overpowered villains the series ever produced to the point where at the end they realized they had no idea how anyone was actually going to beat him so they pulled the dumbest poo poo out of their asses. Like for people who like no-sell villains, Broly is your dude. He's fun, and completely stupid and I love my big, dumb green son. If I'm gonna admit to Broly flaws, it's that yeah, the ending to the first movie was complete bullshit, even if all the stuff preceding it was  Dias posted:So yeah, it's what that dude said about energy attacks being like guns, they can do different poo poo and serve different purposes but at the end of the day they all shoot bullets to gently caress someone up. I like this way of putting it.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:39
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TenCentFang posted:So far I've found Super's 17 extremely bland and personality-less, which is all the more crushing since he was the main reason I was looking forward to the current arc. He had a nihilistic view on getting destroyed, became a family man that has a passion for his work, and pretended to be a magical girl villain of the week. How you can get "bland and personality-less" from this, and somehow think Super 17 is better is ridiculous.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:53
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Glagha posted:Broly is a terrible character with some good scenes of him just being one of the most crushingly overpowered villains the series ever produced Is that even the case when basically every Dragon Ball villain since Radditz overpowered the protagonists and was only ever beaten by a bullshit powerup, a desperation attack, or both?
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Sep 21, 2017 16:55
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how could anyone say 17 has no personality after his incredibly powerful dad joke to marron
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Sep 21, 2017 16:58
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TenCentFang posted:So far I've found Super's 17 extremely bland and personality-less, which is all the more crushing since he was the main reason I was looking forward to the current arc.t. 17 has a ton of personality. He trying hard to be nihilistic and grim while secretly being a good-natured dork who wants to protect animals and go on a cruise with his family. The contrast is great and why you get stuff like his hilarious dad joke. 17 is genuinely my favorite character in the current arc and I never thought I'd say that.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:59
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a cartoon duck posted:Is that even the case when basically every Dragon Ball villain since Radditz overpowered the protagonists and was only ever beaten by a bullshit powerup, a desperation attack, or both? I think it was the DBZAbridged guys who first said this, but Nappa's fight is basically Broly's fight except better. He's completely superior to the main team in a straight fight, he inflicts actual losses on them, but at the same time they get hits in and fight back properly in what is clearly a losing struggle. Also it doesn't go on loving forever (at least in the manga. I dunno about the show) Pureauthor fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 17:03
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a cartoon duck posted:Is that even the case when basically every Dragon Ball villain since Radditz overpowered the protagonists and was only ever beaten by a bullshit powerup, a desperation attack, or both? Yeah, because even when like, Frieza was hot poo poo, people landed hits on him that made him flinch. Gohan slapped him around a little before he just turned it around on them, and Piccolo was kicking his poo poo before he transformed. Like they show villains like going "ow you hit me in my face" before they decide to step up their game and crush the opposition. Broly did not give a single gently caress the entire movie. He's also among few villains that they actually actively team up against instead of going one on one, and he just shrugs it off the entire time. He's just kind of the one time they went full nonsense overpowered villain where he is just a force of nature that is completely untouchable until they decide he's touchable.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:04
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cell no selling krillin was the only time that ever happened in dbz. even buu took damage; it just didn't matter because he would regenerate
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Sep 21, 2017 17:07
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Glagha posted:Yeah, because even when like, Frieza was hot poo poo, people landed hits on him that made him flinch. Gohan slapped him around a little before he just turned it around on them, and Piccolo was kicking his poo poo before he transformed. Like they show villains like going "ow you hit me in my face" before they decide to step up their game and crush the opposition. Broly did not give a single gently caress the entire movie. He's also among few villains that they actually actively team up against instead of going one on one, and he just shrugs it off the entire time. He's just kind of the one time they went full nonsense overpowered villain where he is just a force of nature that is completely untouchable until they decide he's touchable. Doesn't help that even when Broly's declared punchable, it's not even a particularly cool move that finishes him off. Goku just glows a lot and gives him one good stomach punch and then he literally pops.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:10
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I feel like "getting hits in" just makes no sell bad guys suck, because it's more inexplicable and frustrating that the whole dang conflict is pointless time killing until Goku arrives. A no sell bad guy is awesome because of how invincible they are because it makes the strugglers more badass and pushes them further, with the solution usually being an awesome pay off. Except in the case of what we're talking about, because... Spiritus Nox posted:Doesn't help that even when Broly's declared punchable, it's not even a particularly cool move that finishes him off. Goku just glows a lot and gives him one good stomach punch and then he literally pops. Again, that's the movie's one flaw. Although I'll admit, I'm smitten by Abridged Broly. What a sweetiepie.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:21
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no selling is just boring and lame
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Sep 21, 2017 17:22
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Manatee Cannon posted:no selling is just boring and lame Yeah, in canon. Even before I started re-evaluating Dragon Ball, I was always annoyed with how often it was the rule as opposed to more interesting fights in, say, Naruto.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:24
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TenCentFang posted:So far I've found Super's 17 extremely bland and personality-less, which is all the more crushing since he was the main reason I was looking forward to the current arc. Okay there are a lot of really really bad opinions in this thread but this is just bizarre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ray8xeBidhs - Goku and 17 when 17 turns down the tournament https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hQT8xuV9Tw - The whole exchange between Marron and 17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmiUAhWNS64 - Interrupting the transformation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfwnpWxHhCY - "The Prey. Is you." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf8QQhSBoGU - I AM ANDROID 17~ Seriously, 17 is the best character of this arc and probably the best character of Super so far period. He just has so many amazing moments
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Sep 21, 2017 17:25
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TenCentFang posted:Yeah, in canon. Even before I started re-evaluating Dragon Ball, I was always annoyed with how often it was the rule as opposed to more interesting fights in, say, Naruto. why is it bad in canon and acceptable in the broly movies
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Sep 21, 2017 17:27
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Honestly the Broly movie would have been so much better if Gohan had just freaked the gently caress out and went SSJ2, and then it was a mad dash for our heroes to escape that hosed up rage fight. But no, we have to save Movie SSJ2 Gohan for the knock off of Cell
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Sep 21, 2017 17:30
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TenCentFang posted:Yeah, in canon. Even before I started re-evaluating Dragon Ball, I was always annoyed with how often it was the rule as opposed to more interesting fights in, say, Naruto. Maybe the early parts of Naruto but by the end you had poo poo like Madara and Zetsu and Eyehax vs Eyehax and literal immortal zombies. But even pre time-skip it just became ninja wizards instead of actual ninja stuff. Kild fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 17:32
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Kild posted:Maybe the early parts of Naruto but by the end you had poo poo like Madara and Zetsu and Eyehax vs Eyehax and literal immortal zombies. To be fair only the Madara fight in those examples involved no selling.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:37
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Kashuno posted:Okay there are a lot of really really bad opinions in this thread but this is just bizarre I'll concede to these, though I'm still put off by the  thing.Manatee Cannon posted:why is it bad in canon and acceptable in the broly movies TenCentFang posted:I feel like "getting hits in" just makes no sell bad guys suck, because it's more inexplicable and frustrating that the whole dang conflict is pointless time killing until Goku arrives. A no sell bad guy is awesome because of how invincible they are because it makes the strugglers more badass and pushes them further, with the solution usually being an awesome pay off. The supporting cast needs something to do yet also can't succeed, they just make tiny dents at best and everyone comes off looking worse. I've always thought it'd have been better if the Ginyu Force was Goku-involvement free, kind of like the Saibamen were, but then the Saibamen were a mess anyway and it just led into the Nappa "fight" where the only achievement was blowing off his clothes. Broly applies to the whole cast equally and he consistently tanks everything. Getting through his no sell is the whole story, instead of being padding for Goku to jump in with a new transformation. Also, I only like the first Broly movie, of which I still hate the ending. Burkion posted:Honestly the Broly movie would have been so much better if Gohan had just freaked the gently caress out and went SSJ2, and then it was a mad dash for our heroes to escape that hosed up rage fight. Agreed. Kild posted:Maybe the early parts of Naruto but by the end you had poo poo like Madara and Zetsu and Eyehax vs Eyehax and literal immortal zombies. But even pre time-skip it just became ninja wizards instead of actual ninja stuff. The zombies were some of the coolest and most cerebral fights, though the eyehax wars were lame, yeah. Still, as a friend put it years ago, Naruto fights are "strategic". I don't care if it's not realistic martial arts, I want the players to be outfoxing each other with their ninja wizardry instead of just powering up, being invincible, and stomping the other guy with one backhand. To it's credit, Super has done a lot of putting that back into Dragon Ball. TenCentFang fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 17:38
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Dias posted:My headcanon (not headcannon, that's Masenko Same. A bog-standard ki attack is similar to a vanilla jab, and the Kamehameha/Galick Gun/whatever is like an uppercut or a killer right hook.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:39
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Having characters no sell weaker characters just makes them feel like pointless time wasters. Which perfectly describes half the Broly movie
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Sep 21, 2017 17:41
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CharlestheHammer posted:To be fair only the Madara fight in those examples involved no selling. You think sacrificing eyes to literally go 'nuh-uh' isn't no selling?
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Sep 21, 2017 18:18
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Kild posted:You think sacrificing eyes to literally go 'nuh-uh' isn't no selling? No? Why would it be.
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Sep 21, 2017 18:29
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Shiryuu did the same, it's a valid strategy.
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Sep 21, 2017 18:30
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17 getting an actual personality is by far one of my favorite things to happen in Super. He's just such a dork who's trying to be cool still. Him and '18 is a real good wife and mom even if she doesn't give a poo poo about 99% of the rest of the world' have made the androids easily high up on my favorite character list.
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Sep 21, 2017 18:38
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CharlestheHammer posted:No? Why would it be. The entire Danzo fight with Izanagi was cool because it was the only way he stood a chance against someone like Sasuke. The time Tobi uses it against Konan sucks though
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Sep 21, 2017 18:45
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sexpig by night posted:17 getting an actual personality is by far one of my favorite things to happen in Super. He's just such a dork who's trying to be cool still. Him and '18 is a real good wife and mom even if she doesn't give a poo poo about 99% of the rest of the world' have made the androids easily high up on my favorite character list. Where yall are seeing personality I just see "a guy more robotic than 16 occasionally saying something funny".
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Sep 21, 2017 18:51
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TenCentFang posted:Where yall are seeing personality I just see "a guy more robotic than 16 occasionally saying something funny". The part where people actually pay attention to his dialogue and the actions he takes. It's difficult, I know.
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Sep 21, 2017 18:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:Having characters no sell weaker characters just makes them feel like pointless time wasters. I honestly believe the best thing Super ever did was de-emphasize these huge gaps in power. Whis and Beerus are waayyyyy above everyone, but we've seen stuff like Krillin and Roshi land punches on Goku. You've still got a definite hierarchy of power, but the low-level guys can still have their moments to shine. It hasn't felt like that since Freiza. I've been rewatching the Cell and Buu saga via Kai, and it's frustrating how so many characters just revert to "We can't do poo poo anymore, not even worth trying"
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Sep 21, 2017 18:54
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In a weird way I like to think Goku's ritual to divinity did something to subtly raise the others on whatever wave of power he ascended on, and the presence of Beerus and Whis alone so frequently is bleeding off into everyone quietly finding their potential ceiling having risen somewhere past the stratosphere (whereas Goku has already lapped the Sun and is off to see what Andromeda is like) Associate with gods and soon you'll find yourself walking like they do
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Sep 21, 2017 19:41
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Black August posted:In a weird way I like to think Goku's ritual to divinity did something to subtly raise the others on whatever wave of power he ascended on, and the presence of Beerus and Whis alone so frequently is bleeding off into everyone quietly finding their potential ceiling having risen somewhere past the stratosphere (whereas Goku has already lapped the Sun and is off to see what Andromeda is like) Relax Kubo.
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Sep 21, 2017 19:46
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Black August posted:Associate with gods and soon you'll find yourself walking like they do Next arc Goku achieves CHIM.
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Sep 21, 2017 19:48
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TenCentFang posted:Next arc Goku achieves CHIM. But will the Grand Angel show him his love that is like a spear
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Sep 21, 2017 19:52
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