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Stallion Cabana posted:The tournament itself is already filled with false tension though because it keeps trying to act like U7 is under fire but then there's scenes where Goku literally walks through an opponent's techniques because he's just that much more powerful then them. This is more of a problem with how Dragon Ball has been written since Namek and one I really don't wanna get into.
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Sep 22, 2017 08:05
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Come on, the only really "interesting" they can do if have Goku be eliminated next or after. But that ain't happening ever
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Sep 22, 2017 08:55
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I'm sorry guys for ruining this thread for around 5 pages. gently caress you Blue Star for being a goalpost shifting rear end in a top hat and gently caress you sassassin for being a pretentious snob. You are right that classing stuff as high art and low art is dumb though. But you are wrong about Dragon ball as art.
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Sep 22, 2017 10:58
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We should probably be talking about the provisional titles for episodes 111-113. 
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Sep 22, 2017 12:50
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Webbeh posted:We should probably be talking about the provisional titles for episodes 111-113. idk if it's spoiler but Looks like Goku/Jiren doesn't end with Goku just beating him down. I wonder if Goku gets knocked?? No idea on 112, maybe he limit breaks and finishes what Hit and Goku started. Ep 113 is going to be Kale focused
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Sep 22, 2017 13:03
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Mordaedil posted:I'm sorry guys for ruining this thread for around 5 pages. Dude, please chill out. Or I'm sending you korins tower to sweep the whole place.
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Sep 22, 2017 13:12
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Matoi Ryuko posted:Dude, please chill out. Or I'm sending you korins tower to sweep the whole place. your sig is getting scary
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Sep 22, 2017 13:14
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Kashuno posted:your sig is getting scary 
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Sep 22, 2017 13:15
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Also I know we have been talking about how hosed up this tournament is and Goku in general not really caring but like, even looking back on it now it's pretty hosed up that Goku hired Hit to kill him and basically got 'killed' in front of his kids for fun.
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Sep 22, 2017 13:21
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sexpig by night posted:I mean, the literal entire point of DBZ is that no Goku doesn't act like a Saiyan beyond loving to fight, and the only way Vegeta could grow as a character was to let Earth and his not very Saiyan Saiyan frienemy rub off on him. Like, no, I don't think a 'proper' Saiyan takes their kid to an amusement park and tries his hardest to NOT go to a fighting tournament because his wife's about to pop a kid. I don't know about Goku, obviously the original pitch was that falling on his head killed off the evil saiyan part of his brain to make him a kind, loving boy (with monkey fight powers), but over time (and in comparison with Vegeta especially) this interpretation fits less and less. Vegeta is an unforgivable monster but shows more "humanity" (empathy, compassion, self-awareness) than Goku, who backs up his pure love of fighting with bullying and selfishness and neglectful parenting (all in a sweet hundred year old lady's voice). If you look at Saiyans over the whole run of the shows (not just how they're introduced) it's clear that most of their reputation was down to nurture not nature. Frieza's enslavement of their race, and the pervading myth of a Legendary Super Saiyan (indirectly also Frieza's fault), forged a culture of brutality and bloodshed. The U6 saiyans - who lack both those things - are entirely different in nature. Even Vegeta adapts to Earth's ways, and his earliest actions horrified even his Saiyan comrades (who he then murdered). It's not Goku who changes him, but the love of a wife and family (which Goku explicitly doesn't understand or really feel). If anything Goku is the most Saiyan Saiyan, loving to fight above all else (the lives of his friends, family and universe). He's forgotten Grandpa Gohan's teachings, probably as a result of the brain injury. The only moral conclusion to this story is that he should kill the gods, and then himself.
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Sep 22, 2017 13:35
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Please don't tell goku to kill himself. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours
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Sep 22, 2017 13:40
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Goku isn't going to get eliminated
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Sep 22, 2017 13:40
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Grandpa Gohan didnt even teach Goku how to recognize women without groping them first
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Sep 22, 2017 13:49
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Idk if that's true. Goku definitely is willing to show compassion, love, and empathy. Goku really loves to fight, but he does not like people he cares about to get hurt as a result of it. He may not care about opponents, and the ToP makes it really awkward for him, but when push comes to shove he cares a lot about the people close to him. We see it in super multiple times, it's just that in most cases cases Goku ends up dealing with it with more violence (a Saiyan trait) and is really just dumb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFqvHRuuEng - Frieza destroys Earth, Goku accepts fault and kills Frieza. (sidenote, English Whis and Beerus sound weird as hell) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMWPCqIci8o - Goku finds out Black killed his family https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K5JK7nEKgs - Goku & Roshi
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Sep 22, 2017 13:51
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I think Goku has CTE
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Sep 22, 2017 13:54
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It's just so inconsistent. Like the Roshi example is super weird because he tries his hardest to revive him, but 5 minutes later when Frost is torturing the poo poo out of him Goku decides fighting Lady Buu is more important
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Sep 22, 2017 14:04
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Matoi Ryuko posted:Dude, please chill out. Or I'm sending you korins tower to sweep the whole place. Chill it is.
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Sep 22, 2017 14:05
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CharlestonJew posted:It's just so inconsistent. Like the Roshi example is super weird because he tries his hardest to revive him, but 5 minutes later when Frost is torturing the poo poo out of him Goku decides fighting Lady Buu is more important Yeah, it's a character trait the writing only highlights when it feels like it. Between that and making him even stupider for no apparent reason Goku's probably the actual worst written character in Super.
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Sep 22, 2017 14:16
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Blockhouse posted:Goku's probably the actual worst written character in Super. This is definitely true. I'm trying to think of a character who has had less development in Super. Maybe 18? e; nvm it's Goten
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Sep 22, 2017 14:20
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TenCentFang posted:I'm thinking Freeza will get erased one way or another by the end of all this. Vegeta is totally going to kill him to erase him from existence.
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Sep 22, 2017 14:38
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CharlestonJew posted:It's just so inconsistent. Like the Roshi example is super weird because he tries his hardest to revive him, but 5 minutes later when Frost is torturing the poo poo out of him Goku decides fighting Lady Buu is more important I read as effectively: "See? He's fine now. So NOW will you fight?" "...Fine" Because when she first shows up, he throws her aside initially. It's only after Roshi's eliminated that he actually stops to fight.
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Sep 22, 2017 14:57
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Kashuno posted:This is definitely true. I'm trying to think of a character who has had less development in Super. Maybe 18? Goten had the scene where he has to teach his dad how to buy a gift. He's a good kid.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:01
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Chieves posted:I think Goku has CTE It was really Goku that killed Odin Llyod.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:03
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Honestly after the ToP the old guard needs to all retire and let the new kids on the block take over. Dende quits running the earth to become a fighter, and the new squad of Trunks, Goten, Pan, Bulla, Marron, Dende, and Uub become the new focus. They'd probably get along better with Zeno anyway.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:07
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sassassin posted:Goten had the scene where he has to teach his dad how to buy a gift. He's a good kid. Goten being just like goku but not an idiot is the best possible idea because it means Goten could very likely become the strongest most pure hearted being in universe 7 but also not an idiot. Edit- dende will never come down off that tower.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:08
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Kashuno posted:Honestly after the ToP the old guard needs to all retire and let the new kids on the block take over. Dende quits running the earth to become a fighter, and the new squad of Trunks, Goten, Pan, Bulla, Marron, Dende, and Uub become the new focus. They'd probably get along better with Zeno anyway. This should have been the Buu Saga. Or GT.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:10
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Dragon Ball: The Next generation.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:14
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reignofevil posted:Goten being just like goku but not an idiot is the best possible idea because it means Goten could very likely become the strongest most pure hearted being in universe 7 but also not an idiot. If you think Goten will ever do anything without kid Trunks I'm so sorry
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Sep 22, 2017 15:15
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Buu saga actually concluded in a very satisfying way for me which was a strange situation because I very distinctly remember watching it from day to day and wondering how they were possibly gonna make something more intimidating than Cell was and then that shifted into how they could possibly defeat something that turned you into candy and couldn't be harmed (and so on) but by requiring both the (totally illegitimate) faith of the earth, which wrapped up the Hercule almost saves the earth with bath time and game boy subplot nicely and by requiring Vegeta to experience genuine character development( because unlike goku he could actually be for-real gone if kid buu doublekilled him) they even had buufight buufor a while it was a perfect pro wrestling face turn. I was really sure even as a little babby that I couldn't possibly see the pink gum man go down without there being a gigantic asspull but they used a move they hadn't tried with a bunch of excuses for it being way more effective and at the end both Hercule and Vegeta were completed characters (lol super I know). Goku didn't actually do much but I made my peace with that while he was still doing pushups on the road to namek.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:21
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I'm glad Goten doesn't get to do anything, he's lame
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Sep 22, 2017 15:30
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Goten is destined to do things, Goku is the most marketable icon of Dragon ball and now that the "wish him to be younger" well is poisoned the hungry businessmen in charge are gonna bust out the "Goten series" emergency valve three months after they pull the "Vegeta and Goku's final battle" lever.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:35
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I want to see a Cabba vs Frieza fight.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:39
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Burkion posted:If you think Goten will ever do anything without kid Trunks Fusion was a horrifying mistake.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:48
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reignofevil posted:Goten is destined to do things, Goku is the most marketable icon of Dragon ball and now that the "wish him to be younger" well is poisoned the hungry businessmen in charge are gonna bust out the "Goten series" emergency valve three months after they pull the "Vegeta and Goku's final battle" lever. Vegeta is old news. Goku has moved on.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:49
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Realtalk: have audiences moved on? Goku will mysteriously invent a reason to go punch Vegeta if audiences demand it and somehow I suspect they do.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:53
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He's a narrative dead end. There's nothing left to do with him. Choosing to stay home with his pregnant wife instead of training was the capstone on his arc.
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Sep 22, 2017 16:01
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Audiences are moving on from Goku.
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Sep 22, 2017 16:09
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Can Goku go die again so that he can just train in the afterlife some more and let everyone else have fun.
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Sep 22, 2017 16:13
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sassassin posted:He's a narrative dead end. There's nothing left to do with him. Choosing to stay home with his pregnant wife instead of training was the capstone on his arc. When the tournament is over I fully see him taking a mentorship role with the U6 Saiyans. Just a bunch of Super Saiyans training at Capsule Corp while proud Daddy Vegeta does his thing.
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Sep 22, 2017 16:37
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Kashuno posted:Audiences are moving on from Goku. It's probably overdramatic, but Goku was my number one undisputed childhood hero and Super making me like him so much less has been legitimately depressing.
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Sep 22, 2017 16:40
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