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Dangerllama posted:Wow. That really resonates with me since I just finished Wizard and Glass and am debating giving up and reading all the Dark Tower spoilers just to get this interminable series over with. I don't know if can handle four more books worth of this. some guy on the bus posted:Wizard and Glass is the last good book in the series btw. Yeah it's funny because W&G does nothing to advance the plot and feels like a waste of time the first time you read it but in retrospect it's one of the best books in the series. I thought Wolves of the Calla was fine all-in-all even though it clearly goes off the rails, Song of Susannah is a completely pointless book that can really be skipped even on a first read. The final one is actually kinda fine I guess? many people complain about the ultimate conclusion but I honestly thought it was pretty strong, the book also contains some decent character moments. Honestly if you just want the plot to progress you'll get none of that in books 5 & 6, so you might as well skip to the last one past W & G. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 16:38
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Yeah it's funny because W&G does nothing to advance the plot and feels like a waste of time the first time you read it but in retrospect it's one of the best books in the series. I 100% totally agree with this. I even have trouble placing anything that happened in SoS. Wasteland and Wizard and Glass are my hands down favorites of the series. The last book is odd, but I liked it and thought the conclusions for the characters were all well done.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:23
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:She accomplished plenty! She left much of Essos smoking ruins, leaving shitfucked hellholes so hosed that former slaves long for the days when they were slaves simply because the status quo then was preferable to the utter anarchy Dany left behind her. That's the beauty of it! When winter comes, the Dothraki freeze to death.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:59
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Solice Kirsk posted:I 100% totally agree with this. I even have trouble placing anything that happened in SoS. something about a chap...
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Sep 28, 2017 21:07
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Snowman_McK posted:I'm barely following the show at this point, and I thought that got revealed ages ago. I thought it was pretty clear in the first scene in Dragonstone. "This volcanic island has a lot of volcanic byproduct" is something a person as smart as Sam shouldn't need to be told, let alone forget about completely. 
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Sep 28, 2017 23:07
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Who ever said Sam was smart? Show Sam is just a fat whiny thief. Gilly made way more of an effort to learn things in Oldtown than the guy who was sent there with the express purpose of learning things.
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Sep 28, 2017 23:13
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I like how he stole the sword, then the season after that we had a whole (well....sort of) arc with his dad who never once commented on sam or the sword. How many show-watchers even remembered that he was related?
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Sep 28, 2017 23:31
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I like how he stole the sword, then the season after that we had a whole (well....sort of) arc with his dad who never once commented on sam or the sword. How many show-watchers even remembered that he was related? As a show watcher (what are books?) I barely cottoned on to the fact that the Tarly boys who got torched by Drogon the Dragon were Sam's dad and younger brother. I was instead debating in my head whether Kelly C. was going to feed them to him because considering the near fatal wounding he suffered I'm thinking he needs some protein. But I guess he got the oxen or whatever was pulling the wains.
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Sep 29, 2017 00:13
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bloom posted:Who ever said Sam was smart? Show Sam is just a fat whiny thief. Gilly is just wildly competent when compared to Sam the Slayer. She lived/gave birth to her child in the most inhospitable climate in the setting, survived well into her teens in the house of a mad man, learned how to read (and maybe learned a new language too, though in the show I guess the freefolk speak the same language as the poncy southerners), and probably did a bunch of other things im forgetting. All Sam did was get a lot of exercise and inexplicably not lose weight/ use his privilege and education as a noble to get a plum job in the wall's library.
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Sep 29, 2017 01:07
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Gilly is just wildly competent when compared to Sam the Slayer. She lived/gave birth to her child in the most inhospitable climate in the setting, survived well into her teens in the house of a mad man, learned how to read (and maybe learned a new language too, though in the show I guess the freefolk speak the same language as the poncy southerners), and probably did a bunch of other things im forgetting. All Sam did was get a lot of exercise and inexplicably not lose weight/ use his privilege and education as a noble to get a plum job in the wall's library. Gurm is in love with being 'unpredictable'. It's the reason why Tyrion has killed far, FAR more people in melee combat that, say, Jon Snow or Jaime Lannister in their POV chapters, despite having no martial training. And why every big battle that is foreshadowed (Stannis vs. Renly, Battle of the Blackwater) will swing around so the chaos can go on and nothing will be settled. And yeah, Sam still being a big guy still bothers me. When he was living a noble's life, ok, makes sense. But when all you have to eat is army gruel out in the cold and you are doing yard practice and going north of the Wall, then sent packing across the world, you'd think it would melt away fast.
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Sep 29, 2017 02:05
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They didn't have the bull ropes to keep John Bradley-West from the craft services table.
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Sep 29, 2017 02:08
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Sam going to Oldtown to learn something he already knew and another thing Bran should have already figured out is the most glorious bit of "writers have no loving clue where they're taking any of this poo poo" in recent memory. The most glaring version of this was whatever the gently caress they did with Jorah. He gets greyscale, a death sentence in the series, for some reason in season 5. Gets banished for like a third time from Essos, and then gets cured by Sam to do...what exactly? Just be another warm body in Jon's venture North? He may make some meaningful sacrifice or *something* next season, but then, why cure the greyscale, what was the purpose of this? Something definitely got left in the writer's room on that storyline.
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Sep 29, 2017 05:18
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I thought he has lost weight in the books. Don't they mention his clothes being too big and him not getting tired anymore and stuff?
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Sep 29, 2017 05:36
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The mast is still fat.
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Sep 29, 2017 09:41
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I feel like Sam has a short, thick schlong.
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Sep 29, 2017 10:09
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Solice Kirsk posted:I thought he has lost weight in the books. Don't they mention his clothes being too big and him not getting tired anymore and stuff? Yeah his sword belt keeps falling off when he's in Oldtown and we learn that he improved a lot at archery and doing physical tasks when he's on the boat from Braavos (when Pink Fat Mast occurs), it's pretty subtle most of the time because GRRM intentionally wrote it so that Sam is the last one who notices his transformation.
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Sep 29, 2017 10:15
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Yeah his sword belt keeps falling off when he's in Oldtown and we learn that he improved a lot at archery and doing physical tasks when he's on the boat from Braavos (when Pink Fat Mast occurs), it's pretty subtle most of the time because GRRM intentionally wrote it so that Sam is the last one who notices his transformation. GRRM is.... good?
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Sep 29, 2017 19:16
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Sam has to stay fat so GRRM can cameo as Old Sam in the series finale.
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Sep 30, 2017 00:38
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cis autodrag posted:GRRM is.... good? I know, right? It's groundbreaking stuff.
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Sep 30, 2017 00:57
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Lycus posted:Sam has to stay fat so GRRM can cameo as Old Sam in the series finale. It's perfect, he writes the song of ice and fire books from the citadel but dies before he finishes.
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Sep 30, 2017 02:04
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GRRM very good. Despite all this threads goonisms our main gripe with GRRM is not the stuff that he writes but rather the things he didn't. Lycus posted:Sam has to stay fat so GRRM can cameo as Old Sam in the series finale. Sam huffs and puffs as he kneels down next to Sansa who's been brutally raped by Sandor Clegane, exasperated he whimpers to her ear "Guess *huff* you *puff* should have *cough* *choke* *wheez* chosen nice guy Sam Tarly instead. SanSan loving bullshit. Idiot fans."
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Sep 30, 2017 11:05
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*Tips chainmail fedora*
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Sep 30, 2017 11:10
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:It's perfect, he writes the song of ice and fire books from the citadel but dies before he finishes. The last episode will actually be in the form of a play performed by Arya's Bravossi theatre troop mates.
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Sep 30, 2017 12:45
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Junkenstein posted:The last episode will actually be in the form of a play performed by Arya's Bravossi theatre troop mates. And all of them are Arya.
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Sep 30, 2017 20:43
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Junkenstein posted:The last episode will actually be in the form of a play performed by Arya's Bravossi theatre troop mates.
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Oct 1, 2017 02:12
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I honestly would watch a web series of a recap of the show as produced by that theater troupe.
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Oct 1, 2017 03:50
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Max posted:I honestly would watch a web series of a recap of the show as produced by that theater troupe.
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Oct 1, 2017 04:04
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one thing that i don't understand about westeros is the custom of super important dudes using other important dudes to man their personal bodyguard we have seen this gently caress people over constantly House Gardener was extinguished because Mern apparently had all of his male relatives loitering right around hem when he got fried Brandon brought a bunch of super highborn guys with him to KIng's Landing, where they all got killed , causing succession problems down the line Ned brought a bunch of young lords and heirs with him to Dorne, where they mostly all got killed, causing succession problems down the line Robb formed his personal guard from young heirs, many of whom got killed protecting him, causing succession problems down the line (the whole Hornwood affair) as well as setting off the stark/karstark feud now, my milsperg credentials are not good enough for me to know whether this was a historical practice when like, Robert the Bruce was galivanting around, would he have Moray's heir and Douglas's heir and Dunbar's heir and Ross's heir all guarding him?
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Oct 1, 2017 10:46
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I think it has much to do with the so called "social contract" of a feudal society, the scions of noble houses are still expected to prove their value, valor and loyalty both to the commoners as well as to their fellow aristocrats. There's also another aspect wherein if you drag other highborns alongside with you you stand a better chance to deter other highborns from messing around with you, this definitely came into play when Brandon marched to King's Landing, Aerys stood a much better chance of surviving his reign had he just killed Brandon and Rickard, instead he found himself at war with 3 great houses because he also had to deal with Brandon's entourage. And really, most people tend to think of the next battle and not on what will happen to their houses if they die. Some people do but I guess many just act.
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Oct 1, 2017 11:23
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Mike N Eich posted:The most glaring version of this was whatever the gently caress they did with Jorah. He gets greyscale, a death sentence in the series, for some reason in season 5. Gets banished for like a third time from Essos, and then gets cured by Sam to do...what exactly? Just be another warm body in Jon's venture North? He may make some meaningful sacrifice or *something* next season, but then, why cure the greyscale, what was the purpose of this? There are highly contagious diseases that have been set up to spread wildly and kill off huge portions of the population in the books. Connington has greyscale, Shireen brought it to the Wall and Essos has the Pale Mare that has flared up. It's clearly a major component of the book plot but it was likely chopped down to 'Jorah gets it saving Tyrion and then gets better' because it was a heavy handed and honestly unnecessary and it's utterly unnecessary in the show. Not that it makes 'Literally having your plagued skin sliced off your body and then you're fine after some sleep and breakfast' any better.
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Oct 1, 2017 18:49
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Sam should use that paste he made on the undead to bring them back to life, stuff seems legit.
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Oct 1, 2017 18:50
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Brother Friendship posted:There are highly contagious diseases that have been set up to spread wildly and kill off huge portions of the population in the books. Connington has greyscale, Shireen brought it to the Wall and Essos has the Pale Mare that has flared up. It's clearly a major component of the book plot but it was likely chopped down to 'Jorah gets it saving Tyrion and then gets better' because it was a heavy handed and honestly unnecessary and it's utterly unnecessary in the show. I think GRRM is pretty explicit in the pale mare just being an outbreak of dysentery in the Yunkish war camp and Meereen. The Unsullied don't contract it and all they do is bath every day. I actually don't think GRRM set up any major "apocalyptic plague" elements in the book, I know many people think that he did mostly due to Val freaking out after seeing Shireen's greyscale but I just don't get that vibe and don't really see how it could possibly tie up to the Dragons & Ice Elves plot. Quaith does warn Dany about the Pale Mare though and it does seem possible she contracted it herself though so who knows.
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Oct 1, 2017 19:09
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Brother Friendship posted:Shireen brought it to the Wall Shireen doesn't have greyscale. One of the big things about her was that she had it but was cured, a rarity, however she's still scarred from it. Meanwhile Sam more or less flays Jorah to cure him and there's no scarring. 
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Oct 1, 2017 20:03
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PupsOfWar posted:one thing that i don't understand about westeros is the custom of super important dudes using other important dudes to man their personal bodyguard Yeah, that's how feudal armies were arranged. The military elite and the societal elite were one and the same. It's something that GRRM gets really well, hence the linguistic obsession when he writes battles about who is leading which troop on which part of the battlefield. Even in a professional army like the Roman legion, the aristocracy and the political elite were expected to serve, it's how they won renown and made their fortune. It was common practice right up until the first world war, where death become so horrifyingly common and random that no aristocrat would risk their child.
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Oct 2, 2017 02:37
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Evil Fluffy posted:Shireen doesn't have greyscale. One of the big things about her was that she had it but was cured, a rarity, however she's still scarred from it. Meanwhile Sam more or less flays Jorah to cure him and there's no scarring. They think she's cured, but the wildlings still refer to her as 'the dead girl' and I wonder if they know something about greyscale that we don't
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Oct 2, 2017 02:43
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Mad Hamish posted:They think she's cured, but the wildlings still refer to her as 'the dead girl' and I wonder if they know something about greyscale that we don't Likely just that they probably immediately kill or abandon anyone with greyscale, so that's how they would refer to someone with it, even if it's been cured.
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Oct 2, 2017 04:16
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Snowman_McK posted:Yeah, that's how feudal armies were arranged. The military elite and the societal elite were one and the same. It's something that GRRM gets really well, hence the linguistic obsession when he writes battles about who is leading which troop on which part of the battlefield. I'm not questioning why the aristos are present and occupy positions of authority or prestige in the armies, just questioning why they tend to be err all clumped together, so to speak, so that their casualties are clustered the idea that a lot of the bodyguards are semi-hostages makes sense, I suppose as does the fact that feudal societies sorta back up the premise that social status equates to fighting competence, since the important lords can afford better trainers and masters at arms than the minor gentry and the commonborn retainers for the most part didn't spend their youths training at all. People like the Smalljon and Dacey were probably flat out more competent as bodyguards than anybody Robb could have pulled from the standing household guard or, god forbid, the levies. otoh Tywin and Stannis aren't really seen maintaining this practice, so maybe it's a thing that young gallant lords do you're going to war, why not go with all of your pals, etc Mad Hamish posted:They think she's cured, but the wildlings still refer to her as 'the dead girl' and I wonder if they know something about greyscale that we don't Shireen's been living with grayscale scarring for years. You'd think that if she was still infectious, somebody at Dragonstone would have caught it from her by now. unless there's some sort of weird environmental trigger that would bring the disease out of remission. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 04:56
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PupsOfWar posted:I'm not questioning why the aristos are present and occupy positions of authority or prestige in the armies, just questioning why they tend to be err The casualties are much more inflated than what you see in real life, because they were trying to capture each other if at all possible. Also the families in question seem to only have one heir each which is real dumb, even in a time of peace disease is going to be killing loads of people basically randomly, you have to pad out those families.
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Oct 2, 2017 06:45
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PupsOfWar posted:Shireen's been living with grayscale scarring for years. You'd think that if she was still infectious, somebody at Dragonstone would have caught it from her by now. This has basically been my assumption. Something with the cold, or the magic built into the Wall or something, I don't know. Of course, none of that matters on television now.
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Oct 2, 2017 11:49
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It won't matter in the books either, Melisandre is going to burn that little girl real good in one of the opening chapters of TWOW.
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Oct 2, 2017 11:52
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