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Droyer posted:Most characters in AGE look fine if you just judge them on their own, but put the entire cast together and some of them look like they're from different species. There's no stylistic cohesion whatsoever. Ditto with IBO, and it's even more of a problem because the rest of the show has a significantly grittier, less cartoony aesthetic than AGE. I don't know whether it would have been an ideal fit, but it would have been interesting to see the IBO cast in the Thunderbolt art-style.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:48
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Gammatron 64 posted:I'm like 9 episodes in and it's pretty ok. I'd say it's probably the best non-UC, non-Build Fighters thing to come out of Gundam since Turn A. The darkness is what I'm enjoying. I just expect the cute anime stuff and it hasn't detracted from the main cast at all for me. I think the part where Mika gets handed that gun and then uses it without question to carry out Orga's plan was what got me locked in. That's a very tightly packed relationship and Mika being fairly likeable and human while also being cold beyond belief keeps me interested in him. The showdown with Crank (who was a cool guy) was kind of the one two punch that made me want to watch the show intently. I like dark stuff and big robots so the show is probably tailor made for me more than anyone else.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:25
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I like the character designer for build fighters
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Oct 12, 2017 00:14
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JBP posted:The darkness is what I'm enjoying. I just expect the cute anime stuff and it hasn't detracted from the main cast at all for me. I think the part where Mika gets handed that gun and then uses it without question to carry out Orga's plan was what got me locked in. That's a very tightly packed relationship and Mika being fairly likeable and human while also being cold beyond belief keeps me interested in him. The showdown with Crank (who was a cool guy) was kind of the one two punch that made me want to watch the show intently. Just be aware that the stuff people are saying about the first season ending pulling its punches occurs in a way that is very obviously "Oh hey, guys, you're getting a second season" in hindsight, so don't dwell on it too much. Darth Walrus posted:He actually kind of does, which is his tragedy. His rant at Orga on the train is basically him begging his friend to keep going so the awful poo poo he's done will be worth something, and by the time he's reached the point where he could create the peaceful life he once wanted for himself, he's thrown too much of his humanity away to live as anything other than a weapon, so he doubles down and ensures that fighting is literally the only thing he and his friends can do so that everyone else will stop asking them to be better. Most of Tekkadan's downfall in S2 is due to Orga's decisions, but Mikazuki is Orga's motivation, and he damned well knows it. (Big major IBO spoilers) Biscuit dying is really what gets them all killed, because he was the voice of reason in the group. Without him, all there is is Orga turning to Tekkadan for advice and getting several hundred former-child-soldiers asking how he'd like them to murder what's currently in the way. Because they'll do it, no matter how lovely the odds. And the odds just kept getting worse every time until they finally lost against someone terrifyingly competent.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:09
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Yasuhiko Yoshikazu remains the top character designer in Gundam for me.
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Oct 12, 2017 04:09
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The voice of the Pale Rider's pilot is certainly not what I was expecting.
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Oct 12, 2017 06:41
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Darth Walrus posted:Animation is a choice to use the entire audiovisual suite to tell a story. If it isn't providing an appropriate sensory experience, that's a pretty big problem. Yeah. I just think it's funny that I love the original Gundam and can tolerate all its terrible 1979 animation, but SEED is just too aesthetically unpleasing for me to stomach. I think the difference is that while the animation in MSG really, really sucks, and the colors are like a pastel nightmare, the character designs are actually very good. Yoshikazu Yasuhiko is a great character designer and an even more amazing artist. MSG is an incredibly ugly anime, but Gundam: the Origin is one of the most gorgeous comics I have ever read, manga or otherwise. It's just stunningly well crafted. That, and the character and mecha designs are barely changed. I really, really love that Origin manga. The original Mobile Suit Gundam is probably tied for my favorite anime series of all time (the other is Evangelion because I'm very cliche), and Gundam: the Origin manages to improve on it and gives the original show a run for its money. I very, very badly want the Origin OVA to continue past episode VI and actually go into the part of the manga that's a retelling of the original series. I'm sure some people are against a remake, but that's just because remakes are usually bad. The Origin manga already exists and it improves on the original by a pretty decent margin, so we know an anime adaptation would be good. It's like, the best possible version of my favorite thing. JBP posted:The darkness is what I'm enjoying. I just expect the cute anime stuff and it hasn't detracted from the main cast at all for me. I think the part where Mika gets handed that gun and then uses it without question to carry out Orga's plan was what got me locked in. That's a very tightly packed relationship and Mika being fairly likeable and human while also being cold beyond belief keeps me interested in him. The showdown with Crank (who was a cool guy) was kind of the one two punch that made me want to watch the show intently. IBO definitely stands out among most other Gundam spinoffs in that it's ballsy and has its own story to tell. It's like... the total opposite of Turn A in terms of tone, but for whatever reason I'm reminded of that series when I watch it. It's like the characters, story and setting are higher priorities than having a wide appeal and selling model kits.
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Oct 12, 2017 13:23
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Gammatron 64 posted:It's like the characters, story and setting are higher priorities than having a wide appeal and selling model kits. I really wish this was true but my takeaway feeling from IBO was that unless someone with a lot of clout is helming their new series then it winds up feeling very much like a Marvel movie situation wrt how short a leash the creatives get.
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Oct 12, 2017 13:35
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https://twitter.com/ex_shiki_/status/917201306879655942
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Oct 12, 2017 13:38
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Srice posted:I really wish this was true but my takeaway feeling from IBO was that unless someone with a lot of clout is helming their new series then it winds up feeling very much like a Marvel movie situation wrt how short a leash the creatives get. I would dearly like to know what kind of blackmail the production team of IBO held over Bandai to keep them from interfering like with every other Gundam series.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:15
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Srice posted:I really wish this was true but my takeaway feeling from IBO was that unless someone with a lot of clout is helming their new series then it winds up feeling very much like a Marvel movie situation wrt how short a leash the creatives get. Mind you I'm only like 9 episodes into IBO, but it seems different from other recent Gundam stuff. You're absolutely right about the Marvel focus group stuff though, because the majority of Gundam stuff from the past few decades is absolutely like that. 0079, Zeta and Wing are aped constantly. I mean, just look at SEED, 00 and Unicorn. (I haven't seen AGE at all.) I mean I enjoyed the Unicorn OVAs and all. The animation was great and they spared no expense. But it was loaded to the brim with fanservice and I kept feeling deja vu, like I had already seen it. Gundam Unicorn is basically the Force Awakens.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:34
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Gammatron 64 posted:Mind you I'm only like 9 episodes into IBO, but it seems different from other recent Gundam stuff. You're absolutely right about the Marvel focus group stuff though, because the majority of Gundam stuff from the past few decades is absolutely like that. 0079, Zeta and Wing are aped constantly. I mean, just look at SEED, 00 and Unicorn. (I haven't seen AGE at all.) It's funny, IBO is my first Gundam series and from what I'm reading if I go into anything else after this I'm going to find it massively jarring because IBO seems to be the dark timeline. I'm 17 episodes in and I really like this series. The cuts to the closing credits are always great and leave me wanting to watch the next episode.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:42
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How is Wing aped constantly? Like there's 00 I guess but even then the presentation between those shows is like night and day.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:43
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JBP posted:It's funny, IBO is my first Gundam series and from what I'm reading if I go into anything else after this I'm going to find it massively jarring because IBO seems to be the dark timeline. Watch Thunderbolt and Victory next
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Oct 12, 2017 14:43
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JBP posted:It's funny, IBO is my first Gundam series and from what I'm reading if I go into anything else after this I'm going to find it massively jarring because IBO seems to be the dark timeline. EDIT: DAMMIT
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Oct 12, 2017 14:44
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Raxivace posted:How is Wing aped constantly? Like there's 00 I guess but even then the presentation between those shows is like night and day. I was referring to 00. Gundam 00 is basically a better version of Gundam Wing. Guy Goodbody posted:Watch Victory next No. Bad. We want him to actually like Gundam. JBP posted:It's funny, IBO is my first Gundam series and from what I'm reading if I go into anything else after this I'm going to find it massively jarring because IBO seems to be the dark timeline. Well, I mean, Gundam was pretty drat dark for its time. And Zeta is still pretty bleak. 0080 is pretty heartbreaking. But IBO kind of ramps it all up to 11 and will make these things look tame.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:50
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Gammatron 64 posted:I was referring to 00. Gundam 00 is basically a better version of Gundam Wing. No it wasn't. Tomino had just come off Zambot goddamn 3. Gundam was happy fun times in comparison.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:59
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Darth Walrus posted:No it wasn't. Tomino had just come off Zambot goddamn 3. Gundam was happy fun times in comparison. Tomino doesn't come vacuum sealed
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Oct 12, 2017 15:06
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IBO is dark but people are pretty overstating how dark it is. It has a dark worldsetting and a lot of people die but it also is a setting where they constantly undermine the worst consequences and try to keep as many characters marketably clean as possible. It would not even say it's particularly much darker than a lot of recent Gundam series. Perhaps a bit better executed but not darker except maybe the ending and even the ending is a looooot more optimistic than you'd expect from that series.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:09
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I really like the optimism of it. It's a weird show because I'll be having fun and watching robots or something funny will happen, then I crash back to remembering dead kids in the street and human debris. I don't know maybe that makes the optimism of the crew more endearing than it should be. It's a bunch of good people dealt a bad hand trying to make it in the universe the only way they know how. By fighting interstellar giant robot battles.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:12
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Gammatron 64 posted:I was referring to 00. Gundam 00 is basically a better version of Gundam Wing. The only thing they have in common is that the protagonists are teen terrorist gundam pilots. And Wing is better
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Oct 12, 2017 15:30
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Wing has Relena, making it extremely difficult to top.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:34
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Pureauthor posted:Wing has Relena, making it extremely difficult to top. There are apparently people out there in this crazy world of ours who think Relena sucks.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:44
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I would dearly like to know what kind of blackmail the production team of IBO held over Bandai to keep them from interfering like with every other Gundam series. The kind that failed given they even had a second season in the first place. TheKingofSprings posted:Tomino doesn't come vacuum sealed What does this even mean? ImpAtom posted:IBO is dark but people are pretty overstating how dark it is. It has a dark worldsetting and a lot of people die but it also is a setting where they constantly undermine the worst consequences and try to keep as many characters marketably clean as possible. It would not even say it's particularly much darker than a lot of recent Gundam series. Perhaps a bit better executed but not darker except maybe the ending and even the ending is a looooot more optimistic than you'd expect from that series. Every time people talk about how dark IBO is I remember the Brewers arc, which has some of the silliest character designs in the franchise and some pretty terrible writing to boot; Guys, I've got a long lost brother so if we ever run in to him I really want to help hi...oh look, there he is. Pureauthor posted:Wing has Relena, making it extremely difficult to top. Relena is one of the worst things about Wing. And Wing has a lot of bad things gunning for worst. Her character has a great finale thanks to Endless Waltz, since she finally realizes that absolute pacificism absolutely isn't working and does something, but she spends most of the series bouncing around various factions without accomplishing much while shouting nonsense at Heero. tsob fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 15:49
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Remembering the over the top Fist of the North Star rejects and the melodrama in the brewers arc and loling.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:51
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Guy Goodbody posted:Watch Thunderbolt and Victory next I'm torn about how well a cold watch of Thunderbolt might go. On the one hand it throws world building to the wind because it's the Nth 0079 side story OVA and it's assumed you already know all the important points. On the other hand though you don't really need to know about the world because it's all about the pew pew pew and free jazz 
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Oct 12, 2017 16:07
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wing and relena are very good but 00 is better cause it's way more coherent as a series. also GN drives are cool as hell
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Oct 12, 2017 16:10
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dudermcbrohan posted:wing and relena are very good but 00 is better cause it's way more coherent as a series. also GN drives are cool as hell Season 1 maybe, season 2 no.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:13
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RillAkBea posted:I'm torn about how well a cold watch of Thunderbolt might go. On the one hand it throws world building to the wind because it's the Nth 0079 side story OVA and it's assumed you already know all the important points. On the other hand though you don't really need to know about the world because it's all about the pew pew pew and free jazz You really don't need to know much going into Thunderbolt, other than that the Federation and Zeon are at war.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:18
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When I watched Gundam Wing as a kid, the plot made absolutely zero sense to me and I just like the cool robots and explosions. I was well "well, I'm a kid, maybe I'll understand these things when I'm older." I tried watching it again as an adult and still absolutely nothing in the show made a lick of sense. Gundam Wing doesn't really have a story or a plot or anything resembling that, it's just a bunch of random things happening. And also the Gundams killing hundreds of Leos like it's Dynasty Warriors. chumbler posted:There are apparently people out there in this crazy world of ours who think Relena sucks. Um.... RillAkBea posted:I'm torn about how well a cold watch of Thunderbolt might go. On the one hand it throws world building to the wind because it's the Nth 0079 side story OVA and it's assumed you already know all the important points. On the other hand though you don't really need to know about the world because it's all about the pew pew pew and free jazz I kind of feel like 0080 and the 08th MS Team work on their own like this, too. You don't really need to know how the war started or why they're even fighting it, just that there's a war going on.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:35
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tsob posted:What does this even mean? It means that the original Gundam was fairly dark relative to a lot of it's contemporaries and comparing it only to the work Tomino finished preceding it is a little misleading TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 16:51
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chumbler posted:Season 1 maybe, season 2 no. I'd take season 2 and/or the movie over Wing any day of the week and call it a win. Wing is a hot mess to me though. It has some really cool ideas, like what role soldiers have in peace time, drones/AI and how they change warfare etc, but the execution is garbage from top to bottom. Season 1 of 00 was really interesting, and while season 2 wasn't nearly as interesting it was still entertaining and had some cool set piece battles and fun moments like Momento Mori. Gammatron 64 posted:I kind of feel like 0080 and the 08th MS Team work on their own like this, too. You don't really need to know how the war started or why they're even fighting it, just that there's a war going on. If what he's looking for is dark then he'll probably want to avoid 08th MS Team, just because someone kept replacing the director's copy of All Quiet on the Western Front with Romeo & Juilet, so it keeps setting up pragmatic and gritty grunt things but interrupting them for melodramatics and star crossed lovers.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:53
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I'll take 00 over wing any day. The fights are better, the characters are better and the plot makes more sense. Wing is just lazy in every regard. the fights are just so boring. At least the gundams being unstoppable in 00 was a major plot point and they had the main governments try to figure out a way around them. zechs is by far the biggest char clone in the entire franchise.
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Oct 12, 2017 17:10
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My Wing fandom ptsd has been horribly triggered.
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Oct 12, 2017 18:06
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tsob posted:The kind that failed given they even had a second season in the first place. The Brewers arc did at least have that bit with Norba and the kids, which I thought was one of the defining moments of the whole series.
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Oct 12, 2017 18:12
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JBP posted:Mika being fairly likeable and human while also being cold beyond belief keeps me interested in him. The showdown with Crank (who was a cool guy) was kind of the one two punch that made me want to watch the show intently. That and the dub being actually pretty good is what got me to finally watch it after catching the first two or three episodes at Sakura Con. It and Thunderbolt are the only Gundam things I've enjoyed since maybe G or arguably Wing (specifically the time I actually watched Wing with the understanding that Zechs is the main character and Relena is garbage).
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Oct 12, 2017 18:59
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Monaghan posted:I'll take 00 over wing any day. The fights are better, the characters are better and the plot makes more sense. Colonel Zechs, he is a CHAR indeed. That aside, I can definitely see the Wing parallels with five sexy dudes manning at-times undefeatable Gundams. But SEED's a far worse offender in being a Gundam Wing ripoff (right down to the pacifist nation hogwash) than 00 ever was. At least in 00 the governments are reasonably competent. Later, they become frighteningly competent once the Innovades manage to unify them and control them like a puppet state. Graham is also a cool semi-antagonist, and Ali Al-Saachez does a serviceable job being the Big Bad who dumpsters the Gundam pilots, especially once he gets his hands on their technology. I agree that S2 is blah compared to S1, but it's nowhere near the same drop in quality as I saw between Code Geass and Code Geass R2.
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Oct 12, 2017 19:02
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Relena owns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFnusMJgcWo
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Oct 12, 2017 19:04
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I would dearly like to know what kind of blackmail the production team of IBO held over Bandai to keep them from interfering like with every other Gundam series. I got the opposite impression of ibo because they pretty clearly hold back on going all in at the last second in both seasons
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Oct 12, 2017 19:05
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Monaghan posted:I'll take 00 over wing any day. The fights are better, the characters are better and the plot makes more sense. Well, season 1 McGillis is in contention, I think. Of course, like your mention of unstoppable Gundams in 00, McGillis's Char-ness was kind of the point, rather than just hoping copying Char would work, and season 2 McGillis goes places Char never did. As for discussion of the show not "sticking to its guns" by having a season 2, I thought it seemed pretty clear from how the arcs played out there was, essentially, a "We get one season" plan and a "We get a second season" plan, with the finale to season 1 caught in the middle of the shift. There's a lot more that got changed as it went, but it seems much more Breaking Bad style "No, wait. This works better." than "Sell all of our playsets and toys!" Likewise, season 2's last six episodes have been said to have changed along the line, since the writer's room looked at the initial ending pretty much killing everybody and went 'Yeah, I get the thematics, but... we've kind of been setting up this whole series for the audience to sympathize with Tekkadan. We should throw them a bone." Meanwhile, a producer was going "Hey, why don't we kill Kudelia too?"
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Oct 12, 2017 19:11
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