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It makes sense when you think about how they had to keep Emps company. Space Marines would be terrible to spend a weekend with.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:04
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If they didn't have the 'nails the World Eaters would of been fine in a post-crusade Imperium, already knowing that they were the jackbooted thugs for a totalitarian regime.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:51
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I desire an alternate history series where Custodes have to negotiate disputes between Terra's manufacturing plants and underhive trade unions.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:14
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Endman posted:I desire an alternate history series where Custodes have to negotiate disputes between Terra's manufacturing plants and underhive trade unions. Get ADB/Abnett/Wraight to write it and I'd buy it.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:40
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So I haven't read anything by BL since unremebered empire, are the any must reads since then?
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Oct 12, 2017 11:09
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White Noise Marine posted:So I haven't read anything by BL since unremebered empire, are the any must reads since then? Master of Mankind Carrion Throne Scars/Path to Heaven
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Oct 12, 2017 13:40
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Thanks bud.
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Oct 14, 2017 08:27
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Emperor's Legion is really good. Wraight is up with Abnett and ADB I think.
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Oct 14, 2017 15:57
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Yeah his works are solid Still waiting for the third book in the Blood of Asaheim series though
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Oct 14, 2017 17:33
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So I'm reading Dark Imperium at long last, and honestly? It's kinda poo poo. The writing is awful, there are very few decent battle scenes (Varens being an exception), and everyone speaks like they're trying to info dump as much setting exposition as possible to the reader. It's like a rulebook novellized, and not particularly well.
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Oct 15, 2017 05:48
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:So I'm reading Dark Imperium at long last, and honestly? It's kinda poo poo. The writing is awful, there are very few decent battle scenes (Varens being an exception), and everyone speaks like they're trying to info dump as much setting exposition as possible to the reader. It's like a rulebook novellized, and not particularly well. That's because that's exactly what it is!
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Oct 15, 2017 09:05
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The Iron Rose posted:So I'm reading Dark Imperium at long last, and honestly? It's kinda poo poo. The writing is awful, there are very few decent battle scenes (Varens being an exception), and everyone speaks like they're trying to info dump as much setting exposition as possible to the reader. It's like a rulebook novellized, and not particularly well. Yeah, I was really excited to get my hands on it but ended up having to wait a couple months. By the time I picked it up all the decent scenes had been spoiled and the rest was so tedious I barely made it through.
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Oct 15, 2017 15:30
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I enjoyed the setting and info dumps, but yeah it's far from one of the better books. I started reading A Thousand Sons last year and gave up on it like 100 pages in. Last week I took it up again and am loving it. I think I was just burned out on HH when I first tried, having read them straight to this one. One of my favorites so far. I always hated the Thousand Sons, but now I wanna pick up a couple models.
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Oct 15, 2017 15:40
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The first book of A Thousand Sons (on the desert planet Aghoru) was the worst experience I've had with HH so far. Then book two comes and you know Magnus is about to get emotionally curb stomped and it's all worth it.
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Oct 15, 2017 22:15
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I like the slow bits 
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Oct 15, 2017 23:57
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Endman posted:I like the slow bits Me too. I like it when they take the time to build the setting around a pre-heresy primarch (apart from Descent of Angels) and show what a legion was supposed to be about until Horus hosed it all up for everyone. Not that the sons were going to last too long given the path they were on. I also found that I enjoyed the Ahriman books a bit more because after seeing the sons in their prime you really get a sense of how far the 40k marines and sorcerers have fallen and how weak they are compared to the first gen guys. When one of the old school guys rolls up you get a real feeling of the big boys being in town. Speaking of pre-heresy legions and their plans, you have to wonder how many of the loyalist legions would have been Russ'ed eventually if the heresy hadn't happened. Would the black rage have got the angels executed? Would Ferrus have taken his kids to one side and said "look, this metal arm thing wasn't planned, ok - quit turning yourselves into toasters"? The sons would have probably burnt out regardless of Horus, but what about the lion and his retarded chaos knights? Hell, at some point Russ is going to start foaming at the mouth, humping the furniture and barking at the mailman to the point where eventually the big E is going to have to take him out behind the barn.
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Oct 16, 2017 08:19
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I think there's a difference between the essentially foreseeable mutations and quirks the legions were always going to have and the Thousand Sons specifically going extremely all in on exactly the thing Big E 100% definitely did not want anyone to get too involved with. I mean, by the time of the heresy most of the legion is extremely powerful sorcerers who've made pacts with demon servants and poo poo. It wasn't so much the sorcery itself that was the problem, it's that the Thousand Sons and Magnus especially thought themselves the absolute masters of their powers and didn't worry even a little about how this was all possible and where the power came from. It's definitely also partially the emperor's fault for not going to Magnus and the thousand sons and going "hey so uhhhhh the warp is extremely hosed up and the creatures you're loving with are only helping you for their own selfish reasons" but then it obviously would have been helpful if he had told all the primarchs this straight up instead of relying on the soft "oh no the warp is dangerous but definitely not full of sentient creatures trying to bring down the imperium" poo poo he tried to peddle.
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Oct 16, 2017 10:18
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Really, most of the things that went wrong can be traced back to Emps being a tremendous arsehole.
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Oct 16, 2017 11:02
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Groetgaffel posted:Really, most of the things that went wrong can be traced back to Emps being a tremendous arsehole. Pretty much. Why couldn't he just tell his 18 idiot sons "hey so we're reclaiming the galaxy from aliens and poo poo but the number one biggest baddest enemy are the warp creatures that want to corrupt our whole society". It's obviously a stupid line of thought since the setting is what it is and wouldn't be the same if the Emperor wasn't a loving big dumb idiot but still.
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Oct 16, 2017 11:51
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Can't wait for a reveal that he did that to one of the lost legions and they basically pretty much hosed off straight to chaos.
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Oct 16, 2017 11:55
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Telsa Cola posted:Can't wait for a reveal that he did that to one of the lost legions and they basically pretty much hosed off straight to chaos. I really want them to do a series about the two lost legions, but who knows if that will ever happen.
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Oct 16, 2017 12:08
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hopterque posted:Pretty much. Why couldn't he just tell his 18 idiot sons "hey so we're reclaiming the galaxy from aliens and poo poo but the number one biggest baddest enemy are the warp creatures that want to corrupt our whole society". I'm pretty sure his plan was to ultimately defeat the Chaos gods by full suppression of knowledge their existence. The Imperial Truth of a godless, rational universe wasn't exactly true...yet. In a sense, he's telling his kids "there's no monster under your bed." Because he knows there's a monster and it thrives on attention. But of course they look under the bed, and Lorgar builds a church to it. Magnus is like "I need to warn Dad!" It's not a great plan, or it might have been the best plan. But we'll never know if it works because the primarchs were dummies who thought they knew better than dad.
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Oct 16, 2017 12:27
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hopterque posted:I really want them to do a series about the two lost legions, but who knows if that will ever happen. In all likelihood, never. The lost legions were specifically written in to allow the wargamers to create their own chapters. Suddenly providing fluff for them would be the same as saying "sorry, your homebrew basement chapter is poo poo and non-canon".
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Oct 16, 2017 12:46
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I dunno, I think the official line on why the Emperor didn't specifically warn the primarchs about Chaos is valid: "Everyone knows the Warp is dangerous as gently caress, we have Gellar Fields and the Astronomicon for a reason. If you need me to specifically tell you that the Warp is an incredibly bad thing you should stay away from then you're a loving idiot not worthy of being called my son." Big E thought the primarchs would display common sense. He was wrong.
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Oct 16, 2017 14:15
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moths posted:I'm pretty sure his plan was to ultimately defeat the Chaos gods by full suppression of knowledge their existence. The Imperial Truth of a godless, rational universe wasn't exactly true...yet. He went about it the dumbest possible way though. Seeing as how he was sending his idiot rockabilly sons all over the galaxy where they were bound to stumble over some bad poo poo, a "hey so don't touch any strangely compelling ancient swords, burn weird temples that seem to defy physics to the ground, and for gently caress's sake don't listen to any noises you might hear from the warp" might have been a good idea. Sure keep the majority of the people, even most of the space marines, ignorant but maybe let the people leading your forces know what to watch out for. Of course if Big E wasn't galaxy's worst dad the setting couldn't exist so it's a silly debate to have.
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Oct 16, 2017 15:03
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A question about A Thousand Sons. Not really a spoiler to anyone at all familiar with the lore but maybe the specifics. So at Nikea, Magnus has the vision of their destruction. Among the images is a big deal made of this brass clock, with cracked face, and ivory or mother of pearl hands. Is this a reference to something specific in the universe? Or just poetic imagery about time? My mind jumped to The Last Church but the description isn’t quite the same.
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Oct 16, 2017 15:38
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bloom posted:He went about it the dumbest possible way though. Seeing as how he was sending his idiot rockabilly sons all over the galaxy where they were bound to stumble over some bad poo poo, a "hey so don't touch any strangely compelling ancient swords, burn weird temples that seem to defy physics to the ground, and for gently caress's sake don't listen to any noises you might hear from the warp" might have been a good idea. Sure keep the majority of the people, even most of the space marines, ignorant but maybe let the people leading your forces know what to watch out for. Yeah I've said the same before. Deprive Chaos of worship by the Trillions of humanity with a bullshit cult of reason is a defensible strategy, but for Gods sake explicitly warn your demi-god Generals and their super-elite troops who are most likely to have to deal with Chaos fuckery up front. Hell make a point of it, the proles have the Imperial Truth, the Elite get to hear the Noble Truth, the truth about the Warp that only the Astartes and their Primarchs are worthy to be entrusted with.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:24
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Tias posted:In all likelihood, never. The lost legions were specifically written in to allow the wargamers to create their own chapters. Suddenly providing fluff for them would be the same as saying "sorry, your homebrew basement chapter is poo poo and non-canon". This is kind of a weird reason in 'modern' 40k since legions and chapters aren't the same thing. There's an insane amount of chapters and basically infinite room to expand them as is, there don't need to be two 'blank slate' legions for the purpose of creativity.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:32
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Dog_Meat posted:Hell, at some point Russ is going to start foaming at the mouth, humping the furniture and barking at the mailman to the point where eventually the big E is going to have to take him out behind the barn. Russ' time was almost up as well because if the heresy hadn't kicked off then he would of had to answer for breaking the Edict of Nikea with his own pet sorcerers. "Spirits of Fenris empowering me" is just as big of a bag of poo poo as the 1k Sons were accused of.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:37
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I could have sworn after reading Master of Mankind that Emps did warn the primarchs about what evils are in the warp and that ultimately once the Webway was finished they wouldn't need to use it or psykers anymore and everything would be hunky dory? Thanks Magnus.
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Oct 17, 2017 03:26
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Bang3r posted:I could have sworn after reading Master of Mankind that Emps did warn the primarchs about what evils are in the warp and that ultimately once the Webway was finished they wouldn't need to use it or psykers anymore and everything would be hunky dory? Emp pretty much says "It was really loving obvious guys come on". He felt like he didnt or shoudlnt have to spell it out which is actually likely a good thing?
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Oct 17, 2017 03:29
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So did the emperor tell anyone at all about chaos?
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Oct 17, 2017 04:55
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Weissritter posted:So did the emperor tell anyone at all about chaos? No. He told them it's dangerous as poo poo always have your Gellar field on and here's a shiny new Astronomicon for the Navigators to follow so you can sail the stars in relative safety. The Emperor figured that was enough to make people realize the Warp is bad.
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Oct 17, 2017 05:07
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Everyone had known the warp was bad poo poo for as long as there were warp capable human ships.
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Oct 17, 2017 05:19
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One need only look at the first ship to enter the warp, as seen in Event Horizon (the best 40k prequel to date), to know that that poo poo ain’t to be trifled with.
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Oct 17, 2017 05:31
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I think what's really important isn't that Russ did nothing wrong.
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Oct 17, 2017 06:18
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There's a big difference between knowing the warp is dangerous to traveling ships and knowing it's full of sentient creatures that will gently caress with you in a variety of ways. Everyone knows blizzards are dangerous but if buying a funny looking snowglobe could also freeze you to death that would be useful information to have.
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Oct 17, 2017 08:12
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bloom posted:There's a big difference between knowing the warp is dangerous to traveling ships and knowing it's full of sentient creatures that will gently caress with you in a variety of ways. Everyone knows blizzards are dangerous but if buying a funny looking snowglobe could also freeze you to death that would be useful information to have. Yeah, the Emperor is basically telling them "fire is dangerous, don't play with it" but it turns out that fire is actually massively powerful and sentient and will do everything it can to try and burn your house down or trick you into doing it and that's a pretttttty big difference. The warp being dangerous is an obvious no brainer, he's right, but the primarchs had no reason to suspect that it was capable of tricking them or making plays for power or coming up with plans or strategies or whatever at all.
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Oct 17, 2017 09:22
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hopterque posted:Yeah, the Emperor is basically telling them "fire is dangerous, don't play with it" but it turns out that fire is actually massively powerful and sentient and will do everything it can to try and burn your house down or trick you into doing it and that's a pretttttty big difference. The warp being dangerous is an obvious no brainer, he's right, but the primarchs had no reason to suspect that it was capable of tricking them or making plays for power or coming up with plans or strategies or whatever at all. Plus it wasn't hard to convince them that the Emperor was playing his own games and manipulating them himself. Especially given his utter disregard for his primarch's humanity. I can't remember Horus Rising too well, but isn't there a scene after the first marine possession where Horus is explaining that there are sentient beings in the warp and doesn't seem to think this is something new? Just very restricted knowledge
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Oct 17, 2017 10:56
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Warp possessions and things living in the warp were known. The Emp prolly didn't tell people poo poo because knowledge of chaos existence is basically how it gets its first foothold in you and it likely wouldnt have been worth it.
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Oct 17, 2017 11:04
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