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Dog_Meat posted:Plus it wasn't hard to convince them that the Emperor was playing his own games and manipulating them himself. Especially given his utter disregard for his primarch's humanity. I believe the exact line you're referring to is after Loken asks what happened. "...the warp."
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Oct 17, 2017 11:05
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Telsa Cola posted:Warp possessions and things living in the warp were known. The Emp prolly didn't tell people poo poo because knowledge of chaos existence is basically how it gets its first foothold in you and it likely wouldnt have been worth it. There's a difference between telling the imperium at large and telling the primarchs and the legions. They're never EVER going to divulge a secret that is that important. If there's one group besides the custodes you can trust with information it's the space marine legions and primarchs, to the point where they're obviously and clearly willing to sacrifice regular human lives to control information that is of such a critical nature. Also again its a difference between saying "hey the warp is dangerous" and "hey the beings that live in and control the warp will do and say anything in order to win you over to their side and want more than anything to destroy me and my empire"
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Oct 17, 2017 12:12
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Wasn't the Emp planning some weird underground prison complex for the primarchs? Like 18 massive customized villas or something but still was planning to keep the primarchs under lock and key once the great crusade was finished. Probably planned to cull the legions too to weed put the more aggressive marines.
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Oct 17, 2017 12:46
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pentyne posted:Wasn't the Emp planning some weird underground prison complex for the primarchs? Like 18 massive customized villas or something but still was planning to keep the primarchs under lock and key once the great crusade was finished. Probably planned to cull the legions too to weed put the more aggressive marines. No your confusing something. I remember that scene but it was portrayed as a vacation or ceremonial type deal. There's wasn't a hint of it being a prison
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Oct 17, 2017 12:48
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He was planning to house them there while he raised them. The scattering wasn't planned.
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Oct 17, 2017 13:02
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pentyne posted:Wasn't the Emp planning some weird underground prison complex for the primarchs? Like 18 massive customized villas or something but still was planning to keep the primarchs under lock and key once the great crusade was finished. Probably planned to cull the legions too to weed put the more aggressive marines. It's in the Corax book (Deliverance Lost, possibly?). He goes to earth to see the Emperor about rebuilding his legion and all the Primarchs have custom quarters tailored for themselves for when they visit. I thought it added an extra layer of sadness to the heresy because they were supposed to be this big family who would have their own rooms at their dads palace when they stopped by. Might want to be careful opening Mortarion's door though. There was a similar scene in Unremembered Empire where Gulliman has a stately hall and banquet table with places at the table for his brothers and their banners. I really wanted him to get a chance to use it  Demiurge4 posted:He was planning to house them there while he raised them. The scattering wasn't planned. Was it for raising them? I seem mto remember them being custom to the primarch's individual characteristics and they wouldn't have known those until after their experiences on their various adopted worlds. Not that they couldn't have been refurbished easily enough by a civilisation that can level continents for a parade
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Oct 17, 2017 13:04
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Horus Heresy has been consistently revisiting themes and aesthetics from Rogue Trader days, and one of the older ideas was full suppression of Chaos knowledge. Inquisitors would round up and execute Guard veterans of Daemon attacks, and mindwipe Marines who had seen too much. That is, the very existence of daemons and chaos was originally a closely guarded secret.
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Oct 17, 2017 13:24
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moths posted:Horus Heresy has been consistently revisiting themes and aesthetics from Rogue Trader days, and one of the older ideas was full suppression of Chaos knowledge. Inquisitors would round up and execute Guard veterans of Daemon attacks, and mindwipe Marines who had seen too much. It's still a thing in the fluff. The reason why the Space Wolves are on such rocky terms with the Inquisition came from one of the Armageddon wars, the one with Angron. The Inquisition wanted to execute every single Guardsman who had fought in that war and the Space Wolves said oh gently caress no. hopterque posted:There's a difference between telling the imperium at large and telling the primarchs and the legions. They're never EVER going to divulge a secret that is that important. If there's one group besides the custodes you can trust with information it's the space marine legions and primarchs, to the point where they're obviously and clearly willing to sacrifice regular human lives to control information that is of such a critical nature. The Emperor expected the primarchs to do as they were told. By all accounts to date, he never seriously expected that they would disobey him or want to be something other than soldiers. He created them to be obedient instruments of war and by the time he realized it wasn't so simple it was too late.
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Oct 17, 2017 14:21
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Magnus absolutely knew about the dangerous inhuman entities in the Warp, he just thought that he was smarter/better/more powerful than they were. More than his psychic power, Magnus inherited his father's hubris.
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Oct 17, 2017 16:44
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Cythereal posted:It's still a thing in the fluff. The reason why the Space Wolves are on such rocky terms with the Inquisition came from one of the Armageddon wars, the one with Angron. The Inquisition wanted to execute every single Guardsman who had fought in that war and the Space Wolves said oh gently caress no. Wait, what? 
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Oct 17, 2017 17:13
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Wait, what? Logan Grimnar stared down the head Inquisitor and told him that if the Inquisition wanted to execute the Guardsmen who fought on Armageddon for having seen and learned too much, they'd have to go through him and his entire chapter. The Inquisition backed down because they decided they can't exactly declare a First Founding Legion traitors, but the two organizations have hated each other ever since.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:28
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Read The Emperor's Gift, it goes over that a little bit. Read it after Ravenor for a cool Easter egg.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:30
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Cythereal posted:Logan Grimnar stared down the head Inquisitor and told him that if the Inquisition wanted to execute the Guardsmen who fought on Armageddon for having seen and learned too much, they'd have to go through him and his entire chapter. The Inquisition backed down because they decided they can't exactly declare a First Founding Legion traitors, but the two organizations have hated each other ever since. Not just the guardsmen too, the entire planet was sterilized and rounded up into camps, even the ones that had been thousands of miles away from the front line. Grimnar was super pissed because he and his chapter held such an extended line out in the middle of the wasteland in order to spare the civilians. In effect the Inquisition was going yeah we're not just going to kill the veterans, but literally every other human who might've been aware that there was a war. IIRC, most people in the imperium don't even know there have been three wars for the planet. They're just aware of the first and second Ork invasions.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:18
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Isn't Armageddon actually Ullanor? The only thing the orks ever had resembling a homeworld.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:05
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celeryman posted:Isn't Armageddon actually Ullanor? The only thing the orks ever had resembling a homeworld. Yes
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Oct 17, 2017 19:06
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Is it ever confirmed or just heavily implied?
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Oct 17, 2017 19:08
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Waroduce posted:Yes Wait, all that oil they're extracting on that planet, does that make it- by extrusion, orky fossil fuel?
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Oct 17, 2017 19:37
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celeryman posted:Is it ever confirmed or just heavily implied? its straight up stated somewhere in like the beast arises series or in one of the newer books. i think the inquisition like transported it somewhere using orky tech from those attack moons and than renamed it to keep it a secret quote:Shortly after the death of Koorland, Maximus Thane led a third and final Imperial invasion of Ullanor. During this attack, the Imperials used redirected asteroids to devastate the planet. Using the Sisters of Silence in conjunction with a captured Ork Psyker, The Beast was slain.[5] After the war Thane, now Lord Commander, ordered that the Adeptus Mechanicus enact Exterminatus on Ullanor to erase it from history and prevent a new Beast from ever arising. However Fabricator-General Kubik coveted the Greenskin artifacts on the world, and instead used his reverse-engineered Ork teleportation technology to teleport Ullanor to a secret location in Segmentum Solar, which later became Armageddon.[6] 6: The Beheading (Novel) Chapter 5
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Oct 17, 2017 19:58
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Immanentized posted:Wait, all that oil they're extracting on that planet, does that make it- by extrusion, orky fossil fuel? Using fossilised Orks to set fire to Orks is about as  as it gets, and I'm all aboard that.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:59
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Immanentized posted:Not just the guardsmen too, the entire planet was sterilized and rounded up into camps, even the ones that had been thousands of miles away from the front line. Grimnar was super pissed because he and his chapter held such an extended line out in the middle of the wasteland in order to spare the civilians. In effect the Inquisition was going yeah we're not just going to kill the veterans, but literally every other human who might've been aware that there was a war. Interestingly enough in The Emperor's Legion (which is good) they mention that the Imperium pretty much has no choice but to stop killing anyone who sees a daemon, since they're more and more common now.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:47
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Hustlin Floh posted:Interestingly enough in The Emperor's Legion (which is good) they mention that the Imperium pretty much has no choice but to stop killing anyone who sees a daemon, since they're more and more common now. I believe the new explanation they give to the common folk is just they are another type of Xenos.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:37
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Pandorax has the Grey Knights taking the very progressive step of just mind-wiping everyone on the planet.
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Oct 18, 2017 09:48
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Arquinsiel posted:Pandorax has the Grey Knights taking the very progressive step of just mind-wiping everyone on the planet. That can't be good for the thinking meats of the good people of the imperium. Unless the GKs have some of the last examples of crusade era technology that actually works. Instead I bet it's akin to chemical castration, only with memories.
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Oct 18, 2017 12:47
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What gets me is that the book goes into detail about Catechan funerary rites so there's going to be a bunch of really confused Rambo types wondering WTF it is with all the memorials that nobody remembers making. I get the impression that it's some form of psychic surgery that they are suggesting, like the MIB neuraliser except... brain magic.
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Oct 18, 2017 13:12
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They're lucky if it's not via a power maul.
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Oct 18, 2017 13:15
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I'm a third of the way into the Emperor's Legion by Chris Wraight, and it's so much worse than Carrion Throne. I suspect that the book is about to take off, but it's just not good so far imo. Feels like the Sisters of Silence parts were included because they launched the models and needed to make them badass so people would buy them.
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Oct 18, 2017 13:15
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Syncopated posted:I'm a third of the way into the Emperor's Legion by Chris Wraight, and it's so much worse than Carrion Throne. I suspect that the book is about to take off, but it's just not good so far imo. Feels like the Sisters of Silence parts were included because they launched the models and needed to make them badass so people would buy them. It really blows up about 2/3rds of the way in, everything is a slow, creeping realization of how hosed everything is. the SoS bits are them coming back into the fold, sets up a pretty fast paced and involved climax
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Oct 18, 2017 13:26
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Syncopated posted:I'm a third of the way into the Emperor's Legion by Chris Wraight, and it's so much worse than Carrion Throne. I suspect that the book is about to take off, but it's just not good so far imo. Feels like the Sisters of Silence parts were included because they launched the models and needed to make them badass so people would buy them. I couldn't disagree more. I thought it was solid the whole way through.
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Oct 18, 2017 13:31
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Yeah i listened to Carrion Throne and Emperor's Legion back-to-back and found the latter much more enjoyable. Once the terran council member character visits luna it really takes off.
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Oct 18, 2017 15:31
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Stick with Emperor's Legion. About halfway or afterwards Aleya becomes a much more fun read. You'll probably still think she's just a figurine promotion, but at least one well written.
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Oct 18, 2017 21:24
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All of these dumb books exist only to sell tiny plastic dolls, hth.
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Oct 19, 2017 00:54
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Joke's on GW, I'm only buying the books. 
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Oct 19, 2017 14:09
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MariusLecter posted:Joke's on GW, I'm only buying the books. Joke's back on you, you're paying for books from GW.
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Oct 19, 2017 14:18
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Endman posted:All of these dumb books exist only to sell tiny plastic dolls, hth. At this point are they making more money off the dolls or the books? Pretty sure their plastic soldier men sales cratered when they started upping the prices by 20% a year.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:54
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pentyne posted:At this point are they making more money off the dolls or the books? Pretty sure their plastic soldier men sales cratered when they started upping the prices by 20% a year. Shame about their share price blowing through the roof of valuations in Q2 and 3 of this year. GW is surely going to collapse any day now.
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Oct 19, 2017 17:17
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pentyne posted:At this point are they making more money off the dolls or the books? Pretty sure their plastic soldier men sales cratered when they started upping the prices by 20% a year.
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Oct 19, 2017 17:20
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I just discovered a Games Workshop store in Oklahoma City. I went in to price some terminators and paints, and damned if they weren’t at least 10% more than Amazon. In all seriousness, how does the company stay in business?
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Oct 25, 2017 04:13
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Alternative pants posted:I just discovered a Games Workshop store in Oklahoma City. I went in to price some terminators and paints, and damned if they weren’t at least 10% more than Amazon. In all seriousness, how does the company stay in business? Their sales point at a wholesale level enables them to afford a wide distribution of price points past the individual vendor. That coupled with the fact that they offer a wide variety of sub-product and stuff like paints, brushes, rule books, supplements and the like gives them an easy market capitalization. Consider this with the fact that the product arm is made up of enthusiasts and the corporation is a major, major player in a niche industry for 30ish years and you have a productive business model. You really don't need crazy profit margins to be successful or to maintain business. Solid, sustained return on production costs enables the possibility of staggered increases on offerings and new markets while satisfying operational needs.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:27
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Amazon doesn't have the overhead of a brick and mortar specialty store, particularly if they can just have something shipped directly from the manufacturer or the manufacturer's warehouse to your door. I'm surprised they were only 10% more expensive.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:32
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Cythereal posted:It's still a thing in the fluff. The reason why the Space Wolves are on such rocky terms with the Inquisition came from one of the Armageddon wars, the one with Angron. The Inquisition wanted to execute every single Guardsman who had fought in that war and the Space Wolves said oh gently caress no. I've always liked the idea that the Emperor crafted each primarch to have different strengths and purpose. It has always felt to me like Leman Russ and the wolves were bred to put down other legions, to terminate them if poo poo went wrong.
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Oct 25, 2017 07:51
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