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Pendent posted:One of the Horus Heresy black books, Inferno I think, heavily implies that at least one of the two lost legions was destroyed after being compromised by a race of mind-controlling xenos. You'd think mind control would be high on the Emperor's list of things to make my space marines immune to.
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Oct 27, 2017 15:39
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Randalor posted:There was a running theory that Sigmar was one of the lost Primarchs, as the day he was born was when the twin-tailed comet flew across the sky, he was supposed to tower over other men and he unified the tribes of man into a single empire, and after ruling for 50 years he marched off to the mountains to the east of the kingdom and was never seen again, and ascended to godhood in the mountains. If you assume that the twin-tailed comet was actually a ship crash-landing and he was found instead of born, and that the Warhammer Fantasy setting is in the eye of terror, the rest kinda matches up with other Primarchs? It's not canon, but I like it as a theory because it helps explain where/why Chaos randomly popped up in the history of the Fantasy setting. The Sigmar trilogy (decent read) put the kibosh on that. He's a straight up Conan rip off, born to a human mother/father on the battlefield, baptized with orc blood, etc now. Now, Storm of Chaos back in 06/07 had a prize table that included stuff like power armor and lightning claws as gifts from the gods so it was pretty neat. The shared warp is a cool way of rooting the setting though.
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Oct 27, 2017 15:43
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Pendent posted:One of the Horus Heresy black books, Inferno I think, heavily implies that at least one of the two lost legions was destroyed after being compromised by a race of mind-controlling xenos. I wonder if the person who wrote that ever read the back story for the Storm Wardens chapter.
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Oct 27, 2017 15:58
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Now that I had a few minutes to google for stuff that I didn't remember very well Inferno talked about this massive Xenos invasion of the northern part of the Imperium called the Rangdan Xenocide. It explicitly called out the fact that this was the bloodiest fighting until the heresy. The book describes entire expeditionary fleets and planets being lost without any survivors and notes that this war is what knocked the Dark Angels down from their perch as the largest legion after taking massive losses. It's implied that one or both of the legions was lost during this fighting. This sort of fits with the other hints that we have about them as well. In Dark Imperium Guilliman describes them as having "failed", as opposed to falling to chaos or something. There's also a ton of references out there to the Space Wolves having been the ones to purge them across all both the 30k Black Books and the actual novels from Black Library. There's also some indications that the Ultramarines took on a huge influx of new legionaries at around the time that the purges occurred, implying that whichever of these lost legions was purged were not actually wiped out to a man. The overall implication to me seems to be that during the course of this massive war one or both Primarchs got mind controlled by the Rangdan (see also the Slaugth) and the Wolves were sent in to deal with them. The parts of the legions that weren't actually with their primarchs weren't affected and were absorbed into the Ultramarines and all records expunged.
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Oct 27, 2017 16:25
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That would also fit with the inspiration GW themselves have cited for the lost legions: they're based on the XVII and XIX Legions of the Roman Empire, whose numbers and organizational histories were retired after they were annihilated in the disastrous Battle of the Teutoburg Forest.
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Oct 27, 2017 17:20
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Considering the 40k universe the Slaught empire was most likely a happy multispecies utopia and the real reason why the legions were erased from history was due to the unknown primarchs saying no to daddy's murderous fascist empire.
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Oct 27, 2017 19:35
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Zudgemud posted:Considering the 40k universe the Slaught empire was most likely a happy multispecies utopia and the real reason why the legions were erased from history was due to the unknown primarchs saying no to daddy's murderous fascist empire. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Slaugth quote:Perhaps one of the vilest xenos races known to exist, the Slaugth are terrible and monstrous beings steeped in evil with whom only the most depraved or utterly desperate have dealings I'm not certain we're talking about the same thing.
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Oct 27, 2017 19:55
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Zudgemud posted:Considering the 40k universe the Slaught empire was most likely a happy multispecies utopia and the real reason why the legions were erased from history was due to the unknown primarchs saying no to daddy's murderous fascist empire. Slaught is a combat drug.
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Oct 27, 2017 20:06
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Pendent posted:http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Slaugth Though that is how the imperium describes all xenos. And besides, that describes what they are and not what they were. Humans lead by bad judgment dad, touring around the universe and snuffing out all xenos along with any attempt for peaceful coexistence is bound to produce some bitterness, hostility and bad behavior in response.
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Oct 27, 2017 20:29
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Trast posted:I did like that one fan-fic thing where one of the lost Primarchs was sent off to fight the tyranids in their home galaxy. They manage to kick their asses using dark age tech and found a second imperium without any of the issues the main one does. Now the tyranids are swarming into our galaxy because they are running from the Primarch chasing them around. My favorite part of this fanfic is at the end, when the primarch wonders what magnificent works his father and brothers have built in his absence.
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Oct 27, 2017 21:03
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Zudgemud posted:Though that is how the imperium describes all xenos. And besides, that describes what they are and not what they were. Humans lead by bad judgment dad, touring around the universe and snuffing out all xenos along with any attempt for peaceful coexistence is bound to produce some bitterness, hostility and bad behavior in response. on the other hand, these are ageless malevolent beings made up of thousands of squirming worms who are basically cthulhu monsters, and they have always been that way in imperial records, so I'm reasonably sure they actually are horribly evil, even by warhammer 40k standards.
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Oct 27, 2017 21:09
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hopterque posted:on the other hand, these are ageless malevolent beings made up of thousands of squirming worms who are basically cthulhu monsters, and they have always been that way in imperial records, so I'm reasonably sure they actually are horribly evil, even by warhammer 40k standards. Imperial records that have been meticulously pruned and rewritten for millenias by legions of professional revisionists with an agenda. What I'm saying is that imperial records are poo poo and biased towards lies, much like the Imperium itself.
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Oct 27, 2017 21:27
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Trast posted:You'd think mind control would be high on the Emperor's list of things to make my space marines immune to. I am pretty sure they are resistant to it, but a strong enough psyker can puppet most things, and if you cut a Marine's brain open and rework the wiring I imagine there isn't much that can be done about that.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:00
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Uroboros posted:I imagine there isn't much that can be done about that. Sure there is! You just make a space marine that thinks without brains!
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Oct 27, 2017 22:19
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Shroud posted:My favorite part of this fanfic is at the end, when the primarch wonders what magnificent works his father and brothers have built in his absence. It had just the right tinge of sadness and regret to be authentic 40k.
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Oct 27, 2017 23:26
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Doesn't one of the Fantasy End Times books blatantly have Kaldor Draigo teaming up with some characters as they fight in the warp?
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Oct 28, 2017 01:21
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Regarding the trailer videos of the Gathering Storm, Wrath of Magnus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUuyyVaCOzw What do you suppose was going to be revealed by the Thousand Son who said "The Wolves, my lord, they..." That they rally? That they rise and clamor to the clarion call of battle with their hated, preferred (rules) foe?
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Oct 28, 2017 02:09
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Zudgemud posted:Imperial records that have been meticulously pruned and rewritten for millenias by legions of professional revisionists with an agenda. I mean even though a lot of the fluff is presented as sort of "information out there for the average guardsman or whatever" generally an equally large amount of it is presented as "super secret information only available to the highest level of the inquisition" which does not conceal the facts as they actually are. They're definitely horrible ageless evil monsters, basically the only information available in the fluff about them is presented as coming from the most horrible secret archives of the inquisition and poo poo, where while the stuff presented as fluff there is of course tinged with hatred for aliens and etc, it's normally pretty true to the 'reality' of the setting.
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Oct 28, 2017 08:46
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Pet theory: the Carcharodons were part of one of the lost legions.
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Oct 28, 2017 11:56
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Biplane posted:Pet theory: the Carcharodons were part of one of the lost legions. They're pretty much all but confirmed to be Raven Guard successors aren't they? Identical tribal markings to Pre-Heresy RG, similar gene-mutations, skills at stealth combat, the whole "Sent into the dark beyond to hunt" bit with Corax exiling the overly-bloodthirsty companies etc.
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Oct 28, 2017 12:27
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SteelMentor posted:bit with Corax exiling the overly-bloodthirsty companies etc. Wait, he did? When did that happen? 
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Oct 28, 2017 13:29
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:No one should ever read the unhealthy obsession thread. Agreed, stay away from the 40k and 30k threads.
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Oct 28, 2017 14:10
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Tias posted:Wait, he did? When did that happen? The 30k tabletop books. The pre-Corax Raven Guard were vicious bastards with far more in common with the Night Lords. When Corax joined up, the Pale Nomads reminded him far too much of the sadistic tyrants he had just overthrown. Corax set about reforming the legion into the Raven Guard, and most of the legion got the message and became the good guy Native American supersoldiers we know today. Some didn't, though, and kept to the violent, bloodthirsty old ways of the Legion. At the Heresy's end, he took these old guard who by then had become a single company (in the same color and armor scheme as the Carcharodons) and exiled them to hunt forever in the darkness above the ecliptic plane, guarding the Imperium from whatever went bump in the galactic dark.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:39
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Cythereal posted:The 30k tabletop books. The pre-Corax Raven Guard were vicious bastards with far more in common with the Night Lords. When Corax joined up, the Pale Nomads reminded him far too much of the sadistic tyrants he had just overthrown. Corax set about reforming the legion into the Raven Guard, and most of the legion got the message and became the good guy Native American supersoldiers we know today. Some didn't, though, and kept to the violent, bloodthirsty old ways of the Legion. At the Heresy's end, he took these old guard who by then had become a single company (in the same color and armor scheme as the Carcharodons) and exiled them to hunt forever in the darkness above the ecliptic plane, guarding the Imperium from whatever went bump in the galactic dark. I think I just had a grimdarkgasm :o Anyone know which books deal with the Carcharodons?
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Oct 28, 2017 16:46
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If you take tha hams seriously for a second the scale of logistics is simple unimaginable.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:46
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Tias posted:I think I just had a grimdarkgasm :o Red Tide also what I use to refer to my gf during that time of the month
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Oct 28, 2017 16:47
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Waroduce posted:If you take tha hams seriously for a second the scale of logistics is simple unimaginable. It's cool to think about, the population of the imperium has to be in the quintillions or something easily and there's almost certainly billions or trillions of ships constantly flying back and forth everywhere to keep up the supply chain for just normal survival, let alone engaging in military operations. One of the things that makes it such a cool setting IMO is the unbelievable scale of everything.
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Oct 28, 2017 17:33
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Cythereal posted:The 30k tabletop books. The pre-Corax Raven Guard were vicious bastards with far more in common with the Night Lords. When Corax joined up, the Pale Nomads reminded him far too much of the sadistic tyrants he had just overthrown. Corax set about reforming the legion into the Raven Guard, and most of the legion got the message and became the good guy Native American supersoldiers we know today. Some didn't, though, and kept to the violent, bloodthirsty old ways of the Legion. At the Heresy's end, he took these old guard who by then had become a single company (in the same color and armor scheme as the Carcharodons) and exiled them to hunt forever in the darkness above the ecliptic plane, guarding the Imperium from whatever went bump in the galactic dark. Eh its kinda up in the air whether they are raven guard or night lords loyalists (or both) for every blatant point for one theres a counter one for the other like sevatars visions/thing for sharks.
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Oct 28, 2017 18:39
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Zasze posted:Eh its kinda up in the air whether they are raven guard or night lords loyalists (or both) for every blatant point for one theres a counter one for the other like sevatars visions/thing for sharks. I think the Heresy book settled it outright. You have a chapter of Raven Guard known for their sadism and bloodlust, who wear the Carcharodon colors and given a battle barge that's the Carcharodon flagship during the Badab War, and exiled above the ecliptic plane just like the Carcharodons. They mostly use archaic patterns of equipment just like the Raven Guard. The Carchies also speak of being exiled by their "Father" to the darkness above the galaxy's rim, tying into Corax's exile of the Pale Nomads, and the Carchies' title for their chapter master is the Shade Lord - the title used by the commander of the Pale Nomads before Corax's discovery and reformation of the Pale Nomads into the Raven Guard. They're Raven Guard successors, sorry.
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Oct 28, 2017 18:49
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Cythereal posted:I think the Heresy book settled it outright. You have a chapter of Raven Guard known for their sadism and bloodlust, who wear the Carcharodon colors and given a battle barge that's the Carcharodon flagship during the Badab War, and exiled above the ecliptic plane just like the Carcharodons. They mostly use archaic patterns of equipment just like the Raven Guard. The Carchies also speak of being exiled by their "Father" to the darkness above the galaxy's rim, tying into Corax's exile of the Pale Nomads, and the Carchies' title for their chapter master is the Shade Lord - the title used by the commander of the Pale Nomads before Corax's discovery and reformation of the Pale Nomads into the Raven Guard. Ah which books is that is it a recent one?
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Oct 28, 2017 19:05
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Zasze posted:Ah which books is that is it a recent one? Red Tithe is the book about them, and the stuff about their exile from the Raven Guard was in Extermination. There was also a short story that involved them: The Judges, In Their Hunger. Beyond that, read here.
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Oct 28, 2017 19:15
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Red Tithe is a fantastic read, I thoroughly recommend the poo poo out of it.
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Oct 30, 2017 12:05
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40K Theories: The Origins of the Carcharadons Exiles from the Raven Guard? Loyalist Night Lords? 
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Oct 30, 2017 14:15
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My favourite Lost Legions theory was that they never existed, and were created by some corrupt Administratum official in order to requisition two legions' worth of equipment which could then be sold on the black market.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:31
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Count me as a fan of the tyranid one
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Oct 30, 2017 22:52
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Roller Coast Guard posted:My favourite Lost Legions theory was that they never existed, and were created by some corrupt Administratum official in order to requisition two legions' worth of equipment which could then be sold on the black market. Considering how useless personal wealth has in the Imperium at large, this holds less water than anything.
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Oct 30, 2017 23:06
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Yeah, powerful Imperials basically live in the permanent luxury afforded by holding rank galaxy-spanning megacivilization anyway. What matters are the kinds of favors you can call in and authority you can wield.
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Oct 31, 2017 07:49
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Roller Coast Guard posted:My favourite Lost Legions theory was that they never existed, and were created by some corrupt Administratum official in order to requisition two legions' worth of equipment which could then be sold on the black market. Replace "sold on the black market" with "distributed to chaos cults across the Imperium" and you would have a decent explanation for why every time a chaos cult pops up in the novels, they have some amount of heavy weaponry.
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Oct 31, 2017 13:08
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Pretty much everyone is heavily armed in the 41st millenium. It's just how things work.
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Oct 31, 2017 13:19
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I would like to see the craigslist post where the dude tries to offload a legion's worth of stuff though. 15 000 bolters and chainswords, 100 Land Raiders, 1 of which has been signed by Land himself. Perfect for the budding primarch. 1 thousand billion credits or swap for forbidden knowledge. If u need 2 ask, ask.
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Oct 31, 2017 13:52
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