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I sell all my pure Waters to pay for my "having vast amount of gold and nothing to spend them on" habit
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Jan 31, 2018 06:24
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Fire Emblem Heroes is getting a rhythm game mode soon for some godforsaken reason. Y'know, in case you want that
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Jan 31, 2018 07:31
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mandatory lesbian posted:My favorite thing about ss is that Selena has like 15 different unique conversations and yet a significant number of them will lead to your unit dying cuz they have no res The whole "battle conversations that one of them almost certainly won't survive" is one of my favorite FIre Emblem traditions.
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Jan 31, 2018 07:54
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You know what was a potentially cool idea? Eastern nation vs. Western nation, and you get to pick which side to join. Don't give them cool ideas.
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Jan 31, 2018 10:27
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cheetah7071 posted:Fire Emblem Heroes is getting a rhythm game mode soon for some godforsaken reason. Y'know, in case you want that I mean, is it good, because I’ll drop $20 for a well done rhythm game where I get to tap to Fire Emblem OST Greatest Hits.
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Jan 31, 2018 11:37
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Last Celebration posted:I mean, is it good, because I’ll drop $20 for a well done rhythm game where I get to tap to Fire Emblem OST Greatest Hits. no well, it is free, if you ignore the giant 'give us thousands of dollars' fishing line they hang out like most mobile games but the rhythm game is not well done
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Jan 31, 2018 11:51
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Amppelix posted:They did do that, it's called Path of Radiance and it's still by far the best story in the entire franchise, by every aspect. I should've mentioned that I really like the world-building and down-to-earth plot in PoR. Even though I don't really enjoy playing the game myself, it's one of the few LP's of a Fire Emblem game I could finish reading simply because I found the story so compelling. Plus I love Elincia's angle as a ruler in exile. Those kinds of stories are exciting. Do more shiz like that, IS.
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Jan 31, 2018 11:52
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id play osu emblem but this...meh
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Jan 31, 2018 13:33
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from what i can tell the "rhythm game" only has one button to press too which is a fuckin joke
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Jan 31, 2018 13:47
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Look, if your weird cult is going to infiltrate the upper echelons of a kingdom with a powerful military, possibly replacing the king with a doppleganger or using some sort of spirit to possess him, at least do it in the service of a more interesting monster-god. Worship a world-destroying kraken or something this time, c'mon.
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Jan 31, 2018 14:01
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FE stories aren't very thoughtful. But they are built upon genre structures that are thousands of years of old and that were independently developed in both the east and the west. The basic genre structure is the reconciliation (comedy) and/or rise to power (romance) of man across several levels: personal (childhood to adulthood), political (peasant to king), and metaphysical (evil to good). The metaphysical level is the not-so-secret 'master' level: the 'hero' is chosen by god; and politics are a shadow war between god and satan (dragons/demons). The setting has to be medieval/fantasy because modern individuals can't plausibly be chosen by god to single-handedly resolve the problems of the world and/or save the universe any longer. You can easily remove one of these (personal, political, metaphysical) levels and/or play around with their internal structure. The novel came about when this basic genre structure couldn't explain the world any longer. Don Quixote, one of the first novels, is a sort of self-reflection upon this situation. But there is also something obviously satisfying about these ancient genre conventions in their ability to encompass and explain human existence since they have been revived for essentially no purpose other than popular entertainment. Some of the FEs, to be sure, have experimented. Ike in FE9 isn't a secret noble and doesn't have any sort of intrinsic 'special destiny.' And FE10 played around with a sort of moral relativism. But if you experiment with the genre structure you don't have any 'guideline' for what comes next. And I'm sure that's what the FE devs--probably rightly--fear, since they don't seem to be very creative. Zane fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jan 31, 2018 |
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Jan 31, 2018 20:14
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Zane posted:The setting has to be medieval/fantasy because modern individuals can't plausibly be chosen by god to single-handedly resolve the problems of the world and/or save the universe any longer.
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Jan 31, 2018 20:30
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Good post. I like it.
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Jan 31, 2018 20:41
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Endorph posted:but what about magical girl anime Zane fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 31, 2018 |
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Jan 31, 2018 20:43
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You know, where I came from, when I first came in I was initially shocked to see people unironically care about the plot in a video game. I was completely bewildered when there were some people, without a hint of sarcasm, valued the story/setting of a game over gameplay. (I mean, if you're playing a game, shouldn't gameplay be the only thing that matters?) I FINALLY realized, only a month or two back, that at least half the FE fanbase probably came from the JRPG angle, somehow that made it 'click' for me. I still don't truly understand the appeal of RPGs (or JRPGs in general), but at least I can understand the connection between liking RPGs and why some FE fans prefer to care about the story/setting/worldbuilding. (Not meant as a knock on your post, by the way, which is fantastic and sheds a light on modern storytelling in general.) cheetah7071 posted:Fire Emblem Heroes is getting a rhythm game mode soon for some godforsaken reason. Y'know, in case you want that If it means we get 100 separate rockin' soundtracks, I'm 100% completely on board. The tapping is just an excuse to pimp out their soundtracks, which I'm totally fine with, and I will probably play and replay levels with my favorite tracks on them. But seriously just remove enemy phase music.
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Jan 31, 2018 23:30
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cheetah7071 posted:Fire Emblem Heroes is getting a rhythm game mode soon for some godforsaken reason. Y'know, in case you want that So what's the verdict, is FEH dead?
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Jan 31, 2018 23:36
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SgtSteel91 posted:So what's the verdict, is FEH dead? maybe but I'm still playing it
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Jan 31, 2018 23:38
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facepalmolive posted:I mean, if you're playing a game, shouldn't gameplay be the only thing that matters?
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Jan 31, 2018 23:39
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Hey, in the games I've played, bad stories adds to my enjoyment of a game (because we sit around making fun of it). It helps when you never even try to take the stories seriously (because the stories are so bad to begin with) so it's easier to make fun of. I also thoroughly enjoy board games that look like literal Soviet-era spreadsheets and have the charm and theme of wet cardboard, so maybe I'm preaching in the wrong thread here.
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Jan 31, 2018 23:51
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I only watch movies for the cinematography.
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Jan 31, 2018 23:53
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I only watch my japanese animes for the sakuga.
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Jan 31, 2018 23:57
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You can tell a good story in any medium, whether or not you take advantage of the unique capabilities of that medium. The story is not the top priority in a game, both for the developers and the players; making the game fun can come at the expense of making its story good, and the lack of a good story need not prevent a good time from being had. But caring about story in games is a legitimate activity. Become invested. I give all of you permission to do this + will fight anyone that gives you guff.
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Feb 1, 2018 00:34
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e: ^^^  Ok this is getting off topic so this is my last post on this topic, but I don't doubt video games would be able to tell good stories. Just... for whatever reason, it never works for me. Maybe when the gameplay parts cut in, I get so focused on figuring things out or executing the fight, that it mentally breaks up the flow for me, so I could never feel fully immersed or engrossed in the story. You could say there are games that integrate story and gameplay well, but when the gameplay parts begin, my brain instantly switches to tryhard winning mode so my brain can't handle both. Whereas in a movie, I could be able to appreciate the cinematography and follow the story at the same time, so that's no issue. I enjoy the feeling of failing repeatedly, improving, and finally winning -- and that gives me much more of an endorphin rush than... sitting back and watching a story unfold? (Which is also why, given the choice between playing a good game and watching a good movie, I'd always pick the game.)
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Feb 1, 2018 00:39
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Bad stories can make a game with good mechanics bad. RD runs perfectly fine and has pretty good mechanics. But the plot often dictates so many dumb things that actively get in the way of enjoyable play. "Hey here's a map where we've determined 8 of the units you have to use, you get about 5 choices, Not your flyer though, because that would invalidate the 'Challenge' Also not your Cavalier because she really needs time to train and you don't get that."
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Feb 1, 2018 00:43
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There are stories that could only be told as a video game, because audience participation is a fundamental part of what they're trying to say. Thinking of things like Undertale or Valkyrie Profile Covenant of the Plume here. On top of that there's stories that use video game mechanics to get you to feel the emotions that the story wants you to feel. You can feel satisfaction for the heroes in a movie or novel when they finally beat the villain who's been hounding them all story long, but the satisfaction is more personal when the villain has been hounding you and you're the one who beats them, and this works for emotions other than satisfaction too. There's one specific scene in FE4 that's huge spoilers but which I think only works as well as it does because it's a video game. Then there's games where the story is the exact same as it would be if it were in another medium, stapled to unrelated gameplay. They're often bad, not because that mode of storytelling can't work (most JRPGs are like that), but because it reflects a development team that isn't working towards a unified vision.
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Feb 1, 2018 02:18
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i think framing stories as completely separate from the gameplay is kind of a mistake. look at fe9. it makes you fear the black knight by having him wreck your poo poo a couple of times in gameplay. even in purely gameplay terms, you fear and respect the black knight and are looking forward to being strong enough to beat him. that is what the story of fe9 is about in the actual cutscenes, so the story and gameplay are expressing the same thing. you can't really decouple one from the other.
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Feb 1, 2018 02:58
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That is, I think, a big part of what makes Thracia 776 able to sell its world / scenario so well. Most Fire Emblem games have you as a small guerilla army standing up against some invincible empire, but you never really feel that except in Thracia, where the types of battles you go through and the enemies you fight constantly reinforce the idea that you are drastically underequipped to fight such a powerful enemy, often leaving you on the back foot. But I do think that the ultimate purpose of stories in video games is not for them to be interesting on their own, divorced from the rest of the work (it's just a nice bonus if this happens), but to act as one of many components meant to help immerse the player in the world, or "experience", of the game - the same purpose that mechanics / gameplay ultimately serve. To this end I don't think a story needs to be particularly detailed or rich on its own to serve its purpose; I'd say that even the first Fire Emblem has a perfectly acceptable story for what that game is trying to do. I haven't played Radiant Dawn or Fates, the games which seem to have the most complaints leveled at their narratives, but I don't think any of the other games have had anything worth complaining about storywise; they all serve their purpose of complementing the rest of the games' elements.
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Feb 1, 2018 04:51
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A common joke is "FE5 doesn't start with a bandit attack because your group is the bandits" You don't get an early influx of 10000 gold, you run away for a good chunk of the game, or are constantly being pursued by Reinhardt. It works super well.
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Feb 1, 2018 05:52
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good news everyone, brigand boss got 212th place in the choose your legends vote
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Feb 1, 2018 19:09
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dmboogie posted:good news everyone, brigand boss got 212th place in the choose your legends vote I have a friend who is really mad he got picked over Zephiel
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Feb 1, 2018 19:15
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That makes the victory all the sweeter.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:53
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dmboogie posted:good news everyone, brigand boss got 212th place in the choose your legends vote I am happy to have played my part in making this dream come true.
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Feb 1, 2018 20:39
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Onmi posted:Bad stories can make a game with good mechanics bad. RD runs perfectly fine and has pretty good mechanics. But the plot often dictates so many dumb things that actively get in the way of enjoyable play. "Hey here's a map where we've determined 8 of the units you have to use, you get about 5 choices, Not your flyer though, because that would invalidate the 'Challenge' Also not your Cavalier because she really needs time to train and you don't get that." This was exactly the kind of example I had in mind when I initially said gameplay should trump story/realism, actually. If a story element forces the gameplay to be tedious and unfun, then gameplay absolutely should win out here. It's like saying you have to go through a swamp, and well, horses can't cross swamps because they'd get stuck, so now you lose all your horse units for the rest of the game! It's 'realistic' yes, fun absolutely not. And guess what? If it's that tedious and unfun, it's going to stick out like a sore thumb and that's what people are going to remember about it. Or alternatively, don't force your players into bad tedious gameplay situations, then use plot to justify your tedium. Sir Ilpalazzo posted:one of many components meant to help immerse the player in the world, or "experience", of the game - the same purpose that mechanics / gameplay ultimately serve. I can actually get behind this. I guess ultimately, to me, a game is about its 'moments'. Sometimes a moment is memorable because you finally beat that super hard level or pull out a clutch come-from-behind win. Sometimes a moment is memorable because a combination of existing game mechanics/abilities interact in interesting or unforeseen ways to produce something hilarious or spectacular (Overwatch did this very well when I was new to that game). In a similar sense, the BK example is a fantastic one for combining the story/setting with the gameplay to create 'moments'. I can certainly understand the appeal for that, even if it may or may not personally work for me (because I'm so ADD when it comes to games). So yeah I did say my last post was going to be the last one, but I'm very happy with this conclusion we got to here, so yay.
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Feb 1, 2018 23:15
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So I realize I've shown Guin's crit 100 times but like... never the normal attack really And Lilina's normal attack not the Lightning Bolt Axe crit  For completion sake, Roy's normal. 
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Feb 2, 2018 05:47
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My Ike has gotten a point of magic for the last four levels in a row. He's now at 6 on level 10. If my very accurate extrapolations are correct that means hell have capped magic somewhere around level 2 promoted! I assume he realized that be won't get the ragnell until chapter whateverthefuck (27?) and is now gunning for exclusive rights to all the army's magic swords as a substitute.
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Feb 3, 2018 04:20
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Amppelix posted:My Ike has gotten a point of magic for the last four levels in a row. He's now at 6 on level 10. If my very accurate extrapolations are correct that means hell have capped magic somewhere around level 2 promoted! I assume he realized that be won't get the ragnell until chapter whateverthefuck (27?) and is now gunning for exclusive rights to all the army's magic swords as a substitute. Poor Mist, getting her gimmick stolen by her big brother.
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Feb 3, 2018 04:46
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http://www.siliconera.com/2018/02/02/fire-emblem-getting-arranged-music-collection-called-flower-enchantment/ fire emblem anime OP/closing music General Morden fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 3, 2018 05:43
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better sounding rock than warriors had anyway
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Feb 3, 2018 14:22
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Hell yeah I love me some buttrock. E: Wait never mind there are zero songs from Path of Radiance, what were they thinking?
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Feb 3, 2018 14:26
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SgtSteel91 posted:So what's the verdict, is FEH dead? It's actually still one of the top-grossing Japanese-produced mobage outside of Japan, it gets regular content updates still and Nintendo corporate cites it in quarterly reports and is interested in seeing it continue ... but Intelligent needs to assign more permanent developers to it and get more ambitious with leveraging the IP and mixing up the gameplay if they want the game to last longer-term. Year 2 being just more of year 1 will properly kill the game extremely quickly. It is feeling fairly stale right now.
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Feb 3, 2018 15:57
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