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Momomo posted:Videl trained exactly as much as the Saiyan trio did, they only got Super Saiyan because they would be completely irrelevant without it. Videl trained so hard she was fist-fighting armed bank robbers. No special powers involved. Truly the hero we deserved. Imagine what she could have accomplished with Roshi training her instead of all-talent-no-application Gohan.
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Feb 27, 2018 05:41
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sassassin posted:Videl trained so hard she was fist-fighting armed bank robbers. No special powers involved. Truly the hero we deserved. I mean Gohan really didn't train her right. He STARTED training her with ki, of course she got hosed over. But then again what training could he really give her? The only training he got involved being kidnapped and repeatedly traumatized. Of course he's not going to apply his lessons to her. I don't think Videl would respond well to being thrown at a mountain and then being trapped in a super time space room for a year with only a fight crazed monkey for company
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Feb 27, 2018 05:46
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I mean, Videl did have a martial arts background before she met Gohan, no? Someone said Satan was at the same level of the dude post—Karin Goku chumped even though Roshi thought it would be a hard fight, so it's not like she had TERRIBLE training, just no Ki control or even knowledge of it.
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Feb 27, 2018 05:50
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Did Gohan ever use weighted gear?
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Feb 27, 2018 05:51
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Burkion posted:I don't think Videl would respond well to being thrown at a mountain and then being trapped in a super time space room for a year with only a fight crazed monkey for company I dunno. It worked for him and he was a thousand times a whinier little poo poo and far less interested in fighting than she ever was.
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Feb 27, 2018 05:51
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sassassin posted:Did Gohan ever use weighted gear? 
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Feb 27, 2018 05:53
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Dias posted:I mean, Videl did have a martial arts background before she met Gohan, no? Someone said Satan was at the same level of the dude post—Karin Goku chumped even though Roshi thought it would be a hard fight, so it's not like she had TERRIBLE training, just no Ki control or even knowledge of it. I think the main lesson was that the guy was a legit fighter on his own terms, not just a movie star. It's just, the training Goku and Krillin went through made them literally super human. Even before he trained with Korin, Goku would have smoked the guy. Videl is a good fighter for a normal person. She could throw down with, like, King Choppa pretty well. The moment she has to deal with ANYONE who is super human, which is what Roshi's training does to you, she'd be screwed. Gohan is absolutely focusing on the wrong parts of her training first because his entire life has been kind of hosed as far as normal training goes. If Videl was physically built up before learning ki, like all of the other Non Gohan fighters, she would be a contender. Maybe not as strong as Krillin or so, but certainly better than Yamcha by dent of giving a poo poo. sassassin posted:Did Gohan ever use weighted gear? I don't think he ever had to. He only wore Piccolo's armor because he wanted to look like his dad
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Feb 27, 2018 05:54
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Yeah, afaik when she meets Gohan, Videl is already an accomplished martial artist who tore up the junior division as a kid. If she got training from someone not-Gohan I bet she could have worked her way up to Krillin tier if she really wanted, with how fast she learned how to fly. (e: though krillin's boost from the elder namek dude might put him a tier above what she could reach as a normal human tbqh, but still she could def be better-than-yamcha tier) Also, thanks for he answers so far! It's definitely a tricky subject to talk about, especially since people's opinions on whether gender matters in certain genres, what appeals to them as a power fantasy or eye candy etc is entirely subjective for any gender or orientation, what have you. I do agree that there being a split between shounen/shoujo is probably more of an issue than whether a shounen show has enough girls or if the boys in a shoujo show are actually characters instead of things to look at. I don't think shows have to appeal to everyone, in general, and I think it's a fool's errand to try and make that happen. But I don't think it's a bad thing for there to be more varied representation in any given show, either, so long as it's not something that feels forced or whatever, then poo poo gets a bit awkward. I just think Dragonball has overall been really good with the way it handles the female characters it does have, esp for a shounen show from the 80s/90s. And it's nice that it's not entirely stuck in the mindset of what might have been a bit more progressive then but wouldn't pass now, and instead is introducing more viable female fighters with varied skills or gimmicks. Just a shame it's all happening so close to the indefinite end. e2: oh and videl was punching armed robbers before she even met Gohan. she's like an honourary member of the police force or smth and helps keep the peace in Satancity esperterra fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 05:55
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Well, part of what colors my thinking is that I feel like western animation has increasingly dropped specific appeals to one gender or another as time goes and it's mostly been a good thing. I don't feel like something like Steven Universe or Avatar the Last Airbender, or even Star Vs the Forces of Evil (despite on the surface being a typical princess show) are particularly saddled with the 'boys show' or 'girls show' label anymore and it actually makes them easier to watch and discuss. Maybe anime has gone that direction recently too, I don't really know.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:02
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Calaveron posted:Wait, how are people finding fault in how the Zamasu arc ends, it was perfect I think it's because in the end Future Trunks entire universe was erased, so it all felt like a shaggy dog story. IMO, it was a fine ending since it sets up how terrifying being erased was in the ToP. But then the ToP tried its hardest to make you forget the stakes so the ending just felt really weird and mean to Future Trunks. Manatee Cannon posted:I'm way too lazy to go through the episodes but the manga at least is very clear, tho I'm sure you won't count it That scene you posted was in the anime and that episode aired way earlier than this chapter was released. In that scene in the anime, the Zenos were just talking about how bored they were and there was no mention whatsoever of them planning to erase universes. The first actual mention that the Zenos planned to delete universes was during the exhibition match, which aired about 2-3 weeks later. It feels like that was added in because the writers realized Goku would look like the bad guy for reminding the Zenos about the tournament. I imagine Toyotaro streamlined mentioning the Zenos planned things in that scene to save time, but also because dude loving loves Goku and wouldn't want to write him as being the bad guy. Burkion posted:I mean Gohan really didn't train her right. TBF, that was Videl insisting Gohan teach her the cool stuff first, and Gohan having no experience being a martial arts teacher and where to start with someone's training.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:05
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khwarezm posted:Well, part of what colors my thinking is that I feel like western animation has increasingly dropped specific appeals to one gender or another as time goes and it's mostly been a good thing. Steven Universe is kind of a funny one, seeing as there's so many discussions that crop up about "why aren't there any male gems?!" as if it's the most unfair thing in the world.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:06
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Burkion posted:I don't think he ever had to. He only wore Piccolo's armor because he wanted to look like his dad No one had to. They do it because they want to get stronger. Lazy little poo poo.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:10
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I will eternally find it hilarious that one of Piccolo's canon powers is having a clothes beam.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:11
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khwarezm posted:Well, part of what colors my thinking is that I feel like western animation has increasingly dropped specific appeals to one gender or another as time goes and it's mostly been a good thing. Avatar was probably a little more geared towards boys in the first season. They actually caught on though and changed Azula's gender and worked hard in the second season to balance it out. A lot of the later recurring cast members were female in the second season.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:16
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TheKingofSprings posted:Avatar was probably a little more geared towards boys in the first season. Avatar started with shades of it, with Katara being the hyper competent overly serious always right girl with no real problems or issues that you got a deluge of in the 90s. Thankfully they fixed that going forward.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:22
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I'm watching Dragonball OG for the first time, and I'm a bit past halfway through. Tenshinhan and Yamcha's fight loving owns, and it's kind of wild to see them as top-tier guys as someone who grew up on DBZ and has always known them as jokes
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Feb 27, 2018 06:24
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Yamcha was never top tier. His job in the first half is to job hard. Though unlike Vegeta they forgot to give him a win every now and then.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:33
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Not even once. Fucker's only claim to fame against Goku was that he almost beat him when Goku was starving to death. There's a reason why Roshi just blew him out of the ring without any effort. Even with what little training he got after that, he was always the weakest human around. Yamcha is just too lazy to be a good martial artist. Videl, given the right training, could easily surpass him- though to be clear she absolutely is not stronger than him now. Dude's still super human he's just Not as super human.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:36
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At least Yamcha has baseball.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:37
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Sockser posted:I'm watching Dragonball OG for the first time, and I'm a bit past halfway through. Tenshinhan and Yamcha's fight loving owns, and it's kind of wild to see them as top-tier guys as someone who grew up on DBZ and has always known them as jokes Dragon Ball is such a different show compared to its successors. It's a world where firing energy blasts can be lethal to an untrained user and is something rare and special. Then as soon as Raditz shows up, all that becomes trivial. It's a loving miracle that Goku and Piccolo could even beat Raditz.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:39
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Goku outright saying he's afraid to fight Raditz is unlike any other fight he's been in, even when the stakes get way higher.
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Feb 27, 2018 07:40
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Really Mr Satan and Videl should just train with Roshi. Hell everyone should train with Roshi so earth has more than 8 defenders next time something goes wrong. Also, those Namekians that fused for the ToP... Presumably they won't be unfused if Goku wishes them back? Poor guys.
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Feb 27, 2018 08:56
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It's kinda weird seeing the "Gohan didn't train Videl right" posts. I mean, outside of the Z Fighters, she's basically already one of the strongest, most competent fighters on the planet, right? Like she's gotta at least be in the top 1% or so of the population in terms of fighters. Let's say power levels are like money. She's already a self-made "millionaire" by 18 [years old], and sure, Gohan/Roshi/Piccolo could train her to be a "billionaire," but maybe she just doesn't care? Hell, if I only cared to learn one basic DBZ technique, flight would definitely be at the top of the list. Knowing how to throw hadoukens could be fun, but she can already punch the crap out of just about anyone she'd want to.
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Feb 27, 2018 09:55
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Slightly Absurd posted:It's kinda weird seeing the "Gohan didn't train Videl right" posts. I mean, outside of the Z Fighters, she's basically already one of the strongest, most competent fighters on the planet, right? Like she's gotta at least be in the top 1% or so of the population in terms of fighters. So outside of the people who actually fight in the fighting show, she's one of the strongest fighters? Can't see any problems with that.
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Feb 27, 2018 10:16
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If 18 could make a comeback from babymaker momma, then so can Videl! Hell maybe even Chi- hahaha, no she'd never give that up!
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Feb 27, 2018 11:00
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multijoe posted:So outside of the people who actually fight in the fighting show, she's one of the strongest fighters? Can't see any problems with that. My point is that she's already super loving strong and talented, and her cool boyfriend taught her how to loving FLY. It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to assume she might not want Gohan training her by making her plow fields by hand or by leaving her isolated to fend for herself in the wild. Yeah, from an audience perspective it'd be great to see Videl and more female heroes in the mix, but that's been one of the things I've actually really enjoyed about the ToP. I think Caulifla/Kale/Kefla and 18 are awesome, and Ribrienne didn't really grate on me at all.
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Feb 27, 2018 11:10
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Burkion posted:Not even once. Weakest human. In a world with Chiaotzu. At least Yamcha gets killed by his opponents.
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Feb 27, 2018 11:26
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Slightly Absurd posted:My point is that she's already super loving strong and talented, and her cool boyfriend taught her how to loving FLY. It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to assume she might not want Gohan training her by making her plow fields by hand or by leaving her isolated to fend for herself in the wild. The characters do not exist outside of the audience perspective, it is a TV show. I agree the ToP has been pretty cool for having some credible female fighters for the first time in forever, but Videl got wife'd hard and coming up with ~in-universe~ explanations as to why it makes sense she would never do anything is silly.
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Feb 27, 2018 11:41
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Slightly Absurd posted:My point is that she's already super loving strong and talented, and her cool boyfriend taught her how to loving FLY. It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to assume she might not want Gohan training her by making her plow fields by hand or by leaving her isolated to fend for herself in the wild. Piccolo's training methods were bad and he should feel bad.
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Feb 27, 2018 13:04
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sassassin posted:Piccolo's training methods were bad and he should feel bad. Piccolo's training was the only reason Gohan managed to actually be competent for short amounts of time. The moment Piccolo stopped we got Buu and Resurrection "F" Gohan. Piccolo also gave Gohan a much-needed father figure. Tin Can Hit Man posted:If 18 could make a comeback from babymaker momma, then so can Videl! Nah, 18 actually kept her personality after marriage, and the only reason she didn't take the frontlines was that she cares more about getting rich than getting swole. And even there, she was perfectly fine entering a World Martial Arts Tournament and fighting Beerus, and still above the level of an untrained Super Saiyan or, say, her husband, the single strongest non-modified, non-half-breed, non-alien being on Earth. Which is a lot of qualifiers, but that still makes 18 one of the 10 strongest mortals in Universe 7 with no need of any effort from her part. This is still the case for the Tournament of Power, where after Krillin trained and reached his strongest, he still couldn't touch his wife. 18 never stops being a badass, she just loses spotlight. Videl just kind of dies as a character after Z ends. What's left is nothing more than an excuse for Gohan to suck slightly less. There's nothing else there, only a husk, a background prop.
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Feb 27, 2018 14:03
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I mean to be fair to Videl she was raised thinking her dad was the only person really stronger than her in the whole world, and she could surpass him and be the top dog. I feel like in the long run getting your world view completely owned and having it turn out you are actually below poo poo tier in the grand scheme of things would take the wind out of a lot of sails
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Feb 27, 2018 14:19
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TheKingofSprings posted:Avatar was probably a little more geared towards boys in the first season. Azula was a boy??
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Feb 27, 2018 14:31
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Videl makes babies good and isn't that the most strongest superpower of them all when u think abut it
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Feb 27, 2018 14:46
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Fartbox posted:Videl makes babies good and isn't that the most strongest superpower of them all when u think abut it 
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Feb 27, 2018 14:49
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Kashuno posted:I mean to be fair to Videl she was raised thinking her dad was the only person really stronger than her in the whole world, and she could surpass him and be the top dog. I feel like in the long run getting your world view completely owned and having it turn out you are actually below poo poo tier in the grand scheme of things would take the wind out of a lot of sails That beat down she got during the tournament helped a lot.
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Feb 27, 2018 14:50
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i want to see goku train caulifla
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Feb 27, 2018 15:53
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tbp posted:i want to see goku train caulifla We did. I hope the manga does have the obvious ss3 payoff though
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Feb 27, 2018 15:54
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Calaveron posted:We did. I hope the manga does have the obvious ss3 payoff though i mean until she can reach super sayain blue or something badass like that. additioanlly i think the reason i like cauli a lot is cuz she is an upstart in the grand scheme of power but can reasonably catch up and get closer to the big dogs.
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Feb 27, 2018 15:57
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Fartbox posted:Videl makes babies good and isn't that the most strongest superpower of them all when u think abut it Apparently dodging is now.
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Feb 27, 2018 16:07
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tbp posted:i mean until she can reach super sayain blue or something badass like that. additioanlly i think the reason i like cauli a lot is cuz she is an upstart in the grand scheme of power but can reasonably catch up and get closer to the big dogs. Also the scene of her bashfully and self-consciously calling Kale a gorilla monkey chimpanzee to try to make her go super saiyan was pretty funny
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Feb 27, 2018 16:07
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