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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:If I wanted to see a "real" fight there's a million worldstar vids and MMA matches to watch. Tezcatlipoca posted:If I wanted to see kung fu I'd watch youtube videos of kata competitions. Would the best compromise here be to try and mix the two approaches, a la The Raid or the aforementioned Killzone 2? Essentially wild OTT poo poo that still ends up looking brutal as all hell.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:59
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Wheat Loaf posted:What are the best sword fights in a movie? It's a terrible, terrible movie, but Highlander: Endgame has one really solid one. Kill Bill Vol. 1 comes to mind, of course. The first Pirates of the Caribbean and Troy also have excellent sword fights.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:06
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We should probably draw a distinction between frenetic editing as a conscious style, and frenetic editing meant to disguise the fact that your typical leading man is far less skilled than Scott Adkins, a beautiful man who beat up all of our dads and is our dad now. Keanu Reeves is a great action star, having obviously put a lot of time and energy into getting good at what he does. But he's kind of the exception that proves the rule: he's in his 50s and I believe he first trained with firearms for Point Break.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:09
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Halloween Jack posted:Keanu Reeves is a great action star, having obviously put a lot of time and energy into getting good at what he does. But he's kind of the exception that proves the rule: he's in his 50s and I believe he first trained with firearms for Point Break. I think I posted about this a while back, but go watch 24 Hours to Live to see the difference between a guy who has been making these kind of movies for 30 years, and a guy who spent a lot of the past few decades doing Linklater films.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:12
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Basebf555 posted:I think I posted about this a while back, but go watch 24 Hours to Live to see the difference between a guy who has been making these kind of movies for 30 years, and a guy who spent a lot of the past few decades doing Linklater films. I actually thought Hawke did okay in that movie, oddly enough. Like, it's not John Wick quality action, but it's also a DTV movie so I wasn't quite expecting that level of quality, and I ended up liking it. Hawke having the chops for the non-shooty/punchy bits goes a pretty decent ways to smoothing over his lack of action training.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:16
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I actually thought Hawke did okay in that movie, oddly enough. Like, it's not John Wick quality action, but it's also a DTV movie so I wasn't quite expecting that level of quality, and I ended up liking it. Agreed, I thought Hawke did okay for what he was required to do, he just doesn't move very well compared to someone experienced like Reeves and the choreography obviously had to be toned down. I didn't regret watching it though, overall.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:20
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Wheat Loaf posted:What are the best sword fights in a movie? For something more fanciful but not entirely wuxia, check out The Musketeer (2001) and Brotherhood of the Wolf. I also recommend The Count of Monte Cristo (2002) as just a great adventure film of the kind that really fell off until the PotC franchise revived it. Timby posted:It's a terrible, terrible movie, but Highlander: Endgame has one really solid one. Also, that movie is awful, but the costume design is better than it deserves. Also, there's a fuckup in the DVD version of the final duel where they reuse a shot. And it's, uh, a really punctuating shot where the two combatants fall over a railing.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkkF6Zz67TE(beware of Sanjuro spoilers) This is actually the best swordfight, and 100% realistic too!
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Mar 13, 2018 19:28
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Wheat Loaf posted:What are the best sword fights in a movie? Revenge of the Sith 
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Mar 13, 2018 19:35
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Halloween Jack posted:The sword vs. spear fight between Adrian Paul and Donnie Yen is boss. Precisely what I was thinking of. quote:Also, there's a fuckup in the DVD version of the final duel where they reuse a shot. And it's, uh, a really punctuating shot where the two combatants fall over a railing. The editing in that movie is hosed six ways from Sunday, largely because Bruce Payne had no business wielding a sword and so they had to cut around that, and neither did Lambert as he was already effectively blind at that point, so both guys were basically taking home run swings and nearly taking Adrian Paul's head off for real. That Lambert / Payne fight in the cemetery is hilariously awful.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:56
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Between Endgame and the Dungeons & Dragons movie, I get the feeling that Bruce Payne is one of those classically trained actors who is just completely taking the piss whenever he does a genre film. Completely shameless about chewing the scenery to bits. Like, David Warner took his role in Quest of the Delta Knights more seriously. I always wondered about Adrian Paul. Good looking, actually well trained, likable actor, but he never really took off. Outside the Highlander franchise I think I've only seen him in The Breed, an abominably bad vampire thriller riding the coattails of Blade/Underworld. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 20:04
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Yea I'm not really sure why Adrian Paul never got a shot at a real movie career. Looking at this wiki page there's really nothing there that would be considered a legit shot at stardom, it's all direct to video crap. Maybe he just didn't want to pay his dues in smaller roles or ensemble casts, and preferred to get leading man money even if the movies were terrible failures that nobody saw.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:08
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He developed a reputation as being somewhat difficult to work with during the later years of The Series and on the sets of Endgame and The Source, as I recall.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:28
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I figured he might be difficult to work with, or that he's just not terribly ambitious and is happy with his career. Highlander: The Source, though, how could you not be frustrated being on that set
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Mar 13, 2018 20:30
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I've heard that Highlander getting renewed for a sixth season was a factor; he'd hoped to end it after five and try breaking into movies, but then they got another one and he couldn't get out of it. He clearly can't be bothered in it too. That was the season where they tried out a bunch of female Inmortals to star in a spin-off. They eventually went with Elizabeth Gracen who'd been a recurring guest throughout the run of the series but I remember when I binged everything Highlander a few years ago thinking there were a few that would have been genuinely interesting. Gracen went a bit odd while they filmed the single season of the spin-off (believed Bill Clinton was using the FBI to spy on her,; was controlled and enabled by a boyfriend/manager who was reportedly more than a bit sketchy) which compounded its larger problems (namely that it was terrible). Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 20:37
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I'm a Highlander nerd, and even I couldn't get more than a couple episodes into Highlander: The Raven. Nothing about it sticks out in my mind as hilariously bad, it's just dull.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:42
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Would the best compromise here be to try and mix the two approaches, a la The Raid or the aforementioned Killzone 2? Essentially wild OTT poo poo that still ends up looking brutal as all hell. The best approach is just to do whatever works in the movie. Nobody gives a poo poo that Rocky takes like 25 knockout punches in each movie and keeps ticking. Nobody should give a poo poo that everybody in Iron Monkey is flying around on wires. who cares? Just do whatever works for the movie, having set expectations that never change between films is viewing poison IMHO.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:11
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Yaws posted:I could watch Face/Off once a month until the day I die and never get tired of it. Just look at Castor Troys guns!: My first exposure to these was The Specialists mod for Half Life 1, believe it or not. Those were the days.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:17
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Timby posted:Precisely what I was thinking of. I was under the impression that the director's cut/whatever extended edition just had a longer sex scene and the ending where Faith/Kate lives, does it have a decent fight scene between Yen and Paul? I saw that movie with a bunch of friends on opening night and their fight being brief and Yen barely being in the movie was something that stuck with me from it. Literally all I remember is Yen jump kicks into the scene and they exchange blows for like five seconds and Paul bolts, but again the editing in the theatrical version was probably just way worse. Halloween Jack posted:I figured he might be difficult to work with, or that he's just not terribly ambitious and is happy with his career. I recall him saying the reason he has that coat with the fur collar and his sword is broken early on in it in that the producers decided they wanted him to be "more like Wolverine" and that, that was what they came up with. He still shilled for it though without hesitation, you can find a panel for the movie on YouTube where he just straight up cuts someone else speaking off to be like "I HAVE A PREDICTION. DO YOU KNOW WHAT A PREDICTION IS? IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW WILL HAPPEN, AND I PREDICT THAT THIS WILL BE THE BEST HIGHLANDER FILM EVER MADE." Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 23:11
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Ah, him trading in his sword for a pair of butterfly knives makes a lot of sense now. I figured they were just going along with a videogamey trend for dual wielding everything. It did not in any way evoke Wolverine. Then Yen fight isn't long, but here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5dzAUJhe9U And the aforementioned awful editing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16hnbNPCFBo It's not just a shot, it's a whole sequence from 1:30 that repeats at about 2:30. Also, the editing makes it appear that there are multiple shots where the combatants fall far enough to splatter a person into street pizza, but instead appear to be teleported into an entirely different building.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:34
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On Bourne, the first movie has very similar choreography, but is shot pretty differently. The fight in the apartment, while it starts stupidly (the trained assassin tarzaning into the room, firing wildly) the action itself is really clearly shot.Halloween Jack posted:We should probably draw a distinction between frenetic editing as a conscious style, and frenetic editing meant to disguise the fact that your typical leading man is far less skilled than Scott Adkins, a beautiful man who beat up all of our dads and is our dad now. There's also that he spent like, a year, with top notch gunfighters and competitive shooters (along with BJJ and Judo guys) for John Wick, and those films are built around their action. The Cinematographer spent months (or at least weeks) in a warehouse full of mirrors working out what the camera could do for the final shootout in the second one. Also, Scott Adkins is a freak athlete. A guy his size who can move like that usually doesn't exist outside anime and video games.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:37
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Snowman_McK posted:On Bourne, the first movie has very similar choreography, but is shot pretty differently. The fight in the apartment, while it starts stupidly (the trained assassin tarzaning into the room, firing wildly) the action itself is really clearly shot. But that shows his character! He's just a dumb asset who attacks in the most straightforward A -> B way possible and is fodder for JB. The Clive Owen character is specifically contrasted to him and we seem him make a careful pre-planned sniper assassination before he takes on Bourne, so we know he's the real deal. It's good.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:41
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:But that shows his character! He's just a dumb asset who attacks in the most straightforward A -> B way possible and is fodder for JB. It's still dumb as poo poo. The swinging in through the window move is very cinematic, but makes no loving sense at all. Ever. It usually wouldn't bother me (and generally doesn't) but in Identity, a film that at least makes nods to a sense of realism or cause and effect, it stands out.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:50
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The dude has his brain turned to mush by Treadstone. "Don't you get the headaches?...look what they've done to us...look what they made us do?" The blonde assassin swings in like a moron and goes out in a suicidal weird flop onto the pavement. I love that guy. He's a kook, and programmed to self-destruct.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:56
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Bourne was the best they produced, so I'm willing to accept that they also produced some guys who were only good for a kamikaze attack.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:59
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Precisely, I mean he doesn't fail - they pin his murder on Bourne. No-lose situation for Treadstone.
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Mar 14, 2018 00:00
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Halloween Jack posted:Ah, him trading in his sword for a pair of butterfly knives makes a lot of sense now. I figured they were just going along with a videogamey trend for dual wielding everything. It did not in any way evoke Wolverine. Yeah I swear to god like almost none of the fight before they're both unarmed is actually in the theatrical version, what were they thinking? I mean I might be wrong but that was actually cool and I feel like I'd remember it. Also  Donnie Yen using ***THE POWER OF ILLUSION*** Highlander Endgame style as he flips away.Halloween Jack posted:And the aforementioned awful editing: This I remember was sort of like what happened with Highlander II: The Quickening. There are two sword fights between McLeod and General Katana in different locations at completely different points in the movie. Except in the theatrical release of the movie bits of both are edited together into one fight scene.  Sounds like with Endgame they were so cheap they had a few encounters/much longer final battle or pursuit of Bruce Payne in mind like in The Quickening but then compressed it into one fight, I don't believe that's a DVD glitch but rather them throwing in anything good they could get out of two not as capable folks sword fighting.And yet they somehow had budget left over to film new special effects shots and scenes for the film's trailer that are not nor were ever intended to be in the movie!!!! Like for real I love Highlander, the series is fun and has some cool moments, and hell I'll even go to bat for The Quickening and The Final Dimension just on the level of them being stupid and goofy as poo poo from start to finish. But like what the gently caress even happened with Endgame. The Source is like its own effort post on how bad it is. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Mar 14, 2018 |
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Mar 14, 2018 00:08
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Glad somebody up thread recommended the Musketeer, I loved it when it was released and was sad it didn't get sequels I'd also add the fencing scene in the Princess Bride, it's better than it should be Watched Blade of the Immortal the other day and I loved it
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Mar 14, 2018 00:17
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The Clive Owen character is specifically contrasted to him and we seem him make a careful pre-planned sniper assassination before he takes on Bourne, so we know he's the real deal. It's good. I haven't seen any Bourne movies, but I don't imagine Clive Owen ever says, "gently caress you, you loving fuckers!" when he's in them, so they can't be as good as Shoot 'Em Up by default.
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Mar 14, 2018 00:17
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What is it about Highlander films having multiple versions? The first version of The Source I saw was a pirated copy of the rushed-to-DVD Russian release, where the final fight contained a bunch of awful visual effects that were excised from the American release. Have you seen the Renegade version of Highlander 2? I've heard that it saves the film. I think that's impossible; Highlander 2 is so-bad-it's-good, but a different edit could not possibly make it actually good.
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Mar 14, 2018 00:19
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Halloween Jack posted:What is it about Highlander films having multiple versions? The first version of The Source I saw was a pirated copy of the rushed-to-DVD Russian release, where the final fight contained a bunch of awful visual effects that were excised from the American release. Your suspicions are correct, there are four versions of Highlander 2 and none of them are good, but some of them are gloriously stupidly so-bad-they're-awesome. There's the theatrical release, the European release, the the renegade version, then the special edition which believe it or not was released in 2004. The European release is worse than any other version so I would skip it. -Has too boring to be laughable intro/flashback scenes of Connor's wife dying from too much sunlight/him promising to change the world -Plays generic low ambient music during the train scene -The train scene is censored a bit The theatrical release is what it is. The renegade cut changes the title card "500 YEARS AGO, ON THE PLANET ZEIST" to "A VERY VERY LONG TIME AGO" on earth and the supreme council of bald dudes sends Connor and Ramirez to the future in accordance with their ancient traditions instead of to the planet earth but other than that it's pretty similar overall. But we do actually get the two separate encounters with General Katana. Finally we have The 2004 SPECIAL EDITION! NOW THIS IS THE GOOD poo poo. Okay so we get the best all worlds, a little bit of the flashbacks of the European cut are in here but placed different in the movie. We get the two separate fight scenes with General Katana. We're coming from earth in the distant past with future rifles and the orange juice quickening instead of the planet Zeist. And, most absurdly............................ Almost every special effects shot has been redone! When I say redone though I should more say "completed," as the movie's FX were never truly finished until now. Basically you'll see the shield actually looks like a shield over the planet, and when Reno/Korda/Katana warp to earth it's a newer effect instead of the scratched into the film stuff. They're not amazing but it makes the movie much more visually consistent since the color of the shield and everything else matches the sets now. It's not a good movie, but in this more visually developed state a lot of the stupid stuff about the action scenes and script stand out even more and make sit even more fun to watch, making it the definitive Highlander II: The Quickening experience. Anyway it's basically the only version on DVD now, and it does pop up on Netflix now and then so if you've never seen it before go with that. For all of its zaniness and idiocy I think my favorite thing about Highlander II: The Quickening is Reno and Korda, two guys who you see for like five seconds and realize they couldn't be trusted with tying their own shoes, but hey whatever let's send these two guys on a transdimensional assassination quest of a guy that EVEN THEY CORRECTLY POINT OUT TO KATANA is old and couldn't give two fucks about ever coming to Zeist/to the past to get revenge on him so why just let him die since he's ancient and clearly going to keel over in like two seconds. Which we know Katana is aware of since "a very very long time ago" in earth's past you can just watch the entire future play out on TV. Anyway Reno and Korda have these awesome guns. They do this thing where anything they point them at INSTANTLY EXPLODES INTO A MASSIVE FIREBALL. EXCEPT for when they point them at McLeod. When they do that they instead fire slow moving projectiles he can easily swat away with into a wall or whatever to zero effect. My other favorite thing is how in McLeod's apartment there's a globe with a big transparent orange orb around it representing the shield that only exists so that Sean Connery can dramatically break it as they plan to destroy the sheild. I loving love this movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpQG70B9uDQ
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Mar 14, 2018 00:46
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Wow, thanks for the effortpost! I'm going to find the 2004 version. So I can watch Highlander 2. For like the fifth time. One thing that really strikes me about the sequels is that a big part of their failure--after the #1 reason, that Highlander is virtually designed not to have sequels--is that they never have another good villain. Every villain is a reiteration of the Kurgan, down to his gravelly voice and mannerisms. The villain in The Source is totally a video game boss, existing for no reason but to menace Duncan, acting as a one-note parody of the Kurgan.
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Mar 14, 2018 00:52
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Oh yeah that guy from The Source was such a joke. I like how he had that weird collar/reverse-Pyramid Head thing going on that was clearly there to make it impossible to decapitate him but then he just doesn't wear it for the rest of the movie, and the cheap cover of Queen music they use during the montage.  It's really true about all the later villains just being godawful. It really is a concept that only works as a single movie or as a TV series where having some throwaway bad dude every few episodes/every episode is expected. If they ever do a movie they should ditch the concept of "The Gathering" and have folks just be compelled to hunt each other down so you could follow a character or two travelling the world or something, you could do cool stuff with that to work in flashbacks about them and also play with the notion of what not "fighting on holy ground" means if they want to make it holy ground just in the Abrahamic biblical sense or not.
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Mar 14, 2018 01:07
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I remember cracking up over how Highlander 2 basically had a Star Wars opening crawl that amounted to, "On her deathbed, Connor MacLeod's wife made him promise to dedicate his life to fixing the ozone lair..." One thing that I think is forgotten about that movie is that it was probably one of the many, many attempts to cash in on Batman '89. The bit where they're in the tumbledown, decaying city and two bad guys in leather armour with wings looked like something Tim Burton would've put in a Batman movie, at least.
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Mar 14, 2018 01:08
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Neo Rasa posted:It's really true about all the later villains just being godawful. It really is a concept that only works as a single movie or as a TV series where having some throwaway bad dude every few episodes/every episode is expected. My second favourite thing is that Duncan MacLeod is the exact opposite of the brooding badass trenchcoat-and-katana archetype he helped inspire.
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Mar 14, 2018 01:15
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Wheat Loaf posted:I remember cracking up over how Highlander 2 basically had a Star Wars opening crawl that amounted to, "On her deathbed, Connor MacLeod's wife made him promise to dedicate his life to fixing the ozone lair..." This is 100% correct and something New World Pictures/Panzer in general was going for. They also did the Dolph Lundgren Punisher movie, which was originally meant to directly compete with Batman '89 but fell short of its budgetary ambitions due to Panzer's monetary issues (which peaked shortly after as Highlander II's insane production destroyed the company  ). Interestingly they put most of the budget into the soundtrack orchestra and production, but it kind of paid off since at least that bit of the movie owns.Denis Drieth was Basil Poueldouris' sound engineering/production dude for a while and it owns. Honestly you can tell how even on the level of the soundtrack they semi-coincidentally got something a bit similar to Batman '89 in some ways. The sort of discordant old timey crime flick music through a modern lens lends itself really well to both. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51zU8Vei4HQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PePy3c9qVi0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpjDZ3L32jU
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Mar 14, 2018 01:28
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When I first saw Highlander 2 as a kid, it struck me as very Jim Henson, almost reminiscent of something like Labyrinth. But looking back, Batman '89 wasn't so far off from that, aesthetically.
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Mar 14, 2018 02:33
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The dude has his brain turned to mush by Treadstone. "Don't you get the headaches?...look what they've done to us...look what they made us do?" There's a better way to communicate that he's a broke brain than him swinging in spraying wildly, without ever coming near hitting either of the people in the room. Like, just have him kick in the door. Every action movie has cheats, to conceal why the hero just didn't get shot or stabbed. Bourne, for the most part, is really good at hiding its cheats, but that one stands out. They needed to get the assassin into the room with a gun, but have him not shoot Bourne or Marie, and be close enough for Bourne to disarm, and they couldn't quite figure out how to do it. Especially since he's at least moderately competent as a fist fighter. Certainly more competent than he is at entering rooms.
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Mar 14, 2018 02:51
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Halloween Jack posted:When I first saw Highlander 2 as a kid, it struck me as very Jim Henson, almost reminiscent of something like Labyrinth. But looking back, Batman '89 wasn't so far off from that, aesthetically. Batman Returns goes even further in that direction with a much more fairy tale-ish soundtrack and the costumes. My wife and I rewatched it recently and even more than Edward Scissorhands it really nails that look and feel more than anything else Burton has directed. I'd think it's fair to call Batman '89 an action movie. Would folks it could be one of the ur-90s action movies in a way like John Woo's The Killer (also from '89) etc.?
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Mar 14, 2018 03:10
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Wheat Loaf posted:I haven't seen any Bourne movies In hindsight, it's weird now just how much of an underdog Identity was; "Good Will Hunting as an action hero? Directed by the Go guy? With a ton of reshoots? Whoop whoop, bad movie alert!" Yet it turned out to start probably the defining action series of the '00s. Rewatching Identity, it's striking that even though Bourne is obviously troubled, he's also charming, talkative and almost goofy at times. Compare that to the taciturn grieving rear end-kicking machine later on, which was taken to a ridiculous extreme in Jason Bourne, where he's about as chatty as the Terminator from T1. Small Strange Bird fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Mar 14, 2018 |
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Mar 14, 2018 09:01
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