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SeaborneClink posted:Got walked out today 10 minutes after I told my boss I intended to tender my resignation. Didn't even have a chance to send the email copy of it. So if you didn't officially resign, do you get severance? Or are you in 99% of the US.
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Mar 27, 2018 20:31
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and a vacation 
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Sickening posted:Refreshing to see how loyal your company can be to you right? I fully expected it to go down this way. The Fool posted:So if you didn't officially resign, do you get severance? Or are you in 99% of the US. I straightened it out with HR after leaving the building, they'll be paying me out two weeks and all accrued vacation and personal time in accordance with CA state law. I just get the rest of the week to myself now and could bump up my start date a week if I choose to I guess. poo poo not pissing me off: I'm no longer on call \/\/\/\/ That's nearly exactly what this was. I didn't expect them to want me to work out the notice period in the first place. I just hadn't printed out a physical copy because they prefer it via email for legal purposes, and I just hadn't sent it yet. SeaborneClink fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Mar 27, 2018 |
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Mar 27, 2018 20:42
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Who tells their boss they plan on resigning without actually resigning?? You close out your work, you clean your desk, you tell your boss you want a quick meeting for "job planning" and you walk in there with your resignation letter.
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Mar 27, 2018 20:43
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I am putting in my two weeks hopefully by Friday. The new company is also going to let me stay in West Michigan for a year to let me daughters graduate high school. SoCal wages in West Michigan. 
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Mar 27, 2018 20:46
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Who tells their boss they plan on resigning without actually resigning?? I could be wrong!
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Mar 27, 2018 20:47
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Who tells their boss they plan on resigning without actually resigning?? Eh, it depends on a lot of stuff. SeaborneClink posted:I fully expected it to go down this way. It's pretty standard. I'm just shocked they did it that quickly! Usually takes an hour or two, minimum.
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Mar 27, 2018 20:47
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Who tells their boss they plan on resigning without actually resigning?? If you're my former roommate, you give 6 months advance notice of leaving, then 6 months later leave and don't have any job lined up.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:01
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I gave 3 months notice when I left $lastJob, and I didn't have a job lined up until about 3 weeks before my last day. fe: I was also moving to a new city, and would have been moving regardless of employment situation.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:08
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With all of the horror stories of getting walked out, I'd be worried about giving 3 months even for something as innocuous as moving.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:35
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Who tells their boss they plan on resigning without actually resigning?? My jr. network engineer did. He sent a letter to HR telling them if he didn't get a raise by <DATE> he would be looking for work. welp, now he's looking for work.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:35
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:With all of the horror stories of getting walked out, I'd be worried about giving 3 months even for something as innocuous as moving. I’ll preface this with I like where I work, and have a fairly healthy relationship my boss and my boss’s boss. But given my position, I would be very disappointed if they *didn’t* walk me out the day I gave notice. It should be SOP for any position that has the ability to make changes/admin level access to infrastructure, servers, VMs, etc...
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Mar 27, 2018 21:39
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I did the kind thing and told a place I was planning on leaving, and was given a quiet word by the finance director not to do that because the CEO (who hated me) might use it against me to suggest I wasn't focused on my job. Won't be doing that again. In the end the CEO forced me out and I negotiated 6 weeks gardening leave in exchange for not making a fuss.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:40
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Proteus Jones posted:I’ll preface this with I like where I work, and have a fairly healthy relationship my boss and my boss’s boss. But given my position, I would be very disappointed if they *didn’t* walk me out the day I gave notice. It should be SOP for any position that has the ability to make changes/admin level access to infrastructure, servers, VMs, etc... A lot of us hold the keys to the kingdom, and (I would hope) we're all smart enough to not be stupid about it when we leave or whatever, but not everyone is, so the blanket policy of "Puts in notice, walk out door immediately" is the way to go. My manager asked me if he should fire someone or give them notice, I told him if he wanted to give him notice, just wait the notice period as if nothing was happening and then fire him, I felt lovely, but I wouldn't trust anyone to not do dumb poo poo either maliciously or because they just stopped caring.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:41
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I also had a colleague walked out the door a week into his notice period because he started bad mouthing the corporation on his public twitter.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:43
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Jaded Burnout posted:I did the kind thing and told a place I was planning on leaving, and was given a quiet word by the finance director not to do that because the CEO (who hated me) might use it against me to suggest I wasn't focused on my job. Won't be doing that again. While I believe its smart to not wait until their last day, I don't see how trusting you becomes a problem the day you notify them that you are taking another opportunity.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:47
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It really depends on relationships and culture. I've worked a full two weeks at jobs after giving notice, but I've been lucky and always been on good terms with my managers. They certainly took a risk doing that, but maybe I look super trustworthy or something.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:50
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Sickening posted:While I believe its smart to not wait until their last day, I don't see how trusting you becomes a problem the day you notify them that you are taking another opportunity. Why wait? If there's nothing that can't be taken up by other people (and in a well-run business, there shouldn't be anything that only one person can do), then don't do the "you gave two weeks, we'll walk you out after one," just say "thank you for your service, here's your final check plus two weeks severance, grab your stuff."
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Mar 27, 2018 21:51
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Sickening posted:While I believe its smart to not wait until their last day, I don't see how trusting you becomes a problem the day you notify them that you are taking another opportunity. It didn't. It was just possible ammunition for the CEO to build a case for dismissal without notice. Smells like bullshit to me but whatever. I'm a contractor now so 0-hour notice is the new normal.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:52
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Avenging_Mikon posted:Why wait? If there's nothing that can't be taken up by other people (and in a well-run business, there shouldn't be anything that only one person can do), then don't do the "you gave two weeks, we'll walk you out after one," just say "thank you for your service, here's your final check plus two weeks severance, grab your stuff." Not every corp is going to have an entire department of you waiting to take over your projects the moment you put in your notice, they just aren't. No fantasy land "if your business was well run... blah blah blah" changes the reality and this range from the biggest to the smallest companies. You are putting in your notice as a courtesy to help them mitigate the time the position is left vacant. Just seems weird to term someone right away because you can't trust them, when you obviously trusted them just fine a few moments before. Jaded Burnout posted:It didn't. It was just possible ammunition for the CEO to build a case for dismissal without notice. Smells like bullshit to me but whatever. I'm a contractor now so 0-hour notice is the new normal. I was also terminated early at my last gig by an entire week. It was done by the CFO without telling anybody in my chain of command. People weren't happy.
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Mar 27, 2018 22:01
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Sickening posted:Just seems weird to term someone right away because you can't trust them, when you obviously trusted them just fine a few moments before. To quote Nicholas Cage, well gosh.. kinda a lot's happened since then.
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Mar 27, 2018 22:17
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DigitalRaven posted:Never be first. Never be last. Never volunteer. Nthing this - I got roped into bullshit Mac work at one of my last jobs because I literally Googled how to set up a printer on one. Suddenly everyone and their grandmother has a Mac issue they send to me, because knowing how to install a printer, change a password or download an app makes me "the expert".  Also the MSP I worked for had some garbage contract wording and any time someone put in their 2 weeks to leave for a competing MSP, they just got walked out on the spot. Pettiness in all its glory, then management would wonder why people got so pissed off at having to pick up someone else's work, because said person wasn't allowed to document or finish anything before they got walked out. 
BOOTY-ADE fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 27, 2018 |
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Mar 27, 2018 22:56
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At least in the U.S., there's no law saying you have to put in two weeks' notice; if someone wants to do some damage after they accept an offer for another job, they can just do that damage without putting in notice, then leave without notice. Or with notice, just after they've done the damage. Time after putting in notice is best used for documentation, setting people up on systems that you're the current main user/administrator of, having them test those user accounts before you go and lose access, showing people how to do whatever miscellaneous stuff you've sort of just picked up and dealt with without saying anything, etc. It also allows for time to hire someone new, or at least get started on the process. As long as they're leaving on good terms, I don't see any reason to frog march out someone who puts in their notice immediately. Someone being fired or laid off is an entirely different story.
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Mar 27, 2018 23:13
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Yea, it’s just common courtesy
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Mar 27, 2018 23:22
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Sickening posted:Just seems weird to term someone right away because you can't trust them, when you obviously trusted them just fine a few moments before. I feel like I’ve had this conversation before in this thread. But it might have have been one of the others. I come at this from a Risk Assessment/Info Sec perspective. Most people are going to be reasonable, trustworthy employees until their declared end-date. However, you also get the people who give notice that are seething cauldrons of rage. Perhaps they’re pulling a preemptive strike to not suffer the indignity of being fired. Sometimes their dissatisfaction is obvious, other times it’s buried under a facade of a pleasant demeanor and bonhomie. The thing is, it’s hard to tell who these people are. It’s a slight risk, but it’s still a risk. And to mitigate it, the cost of “go home. We’re paying for your last two weeks + vacation bank, but go home. Your access has already been revoked” is far less than the cost that would be incurred if this one time it was a mistake to let them keep access. THIS IS NOT A VALUE JUDGEMENT ON ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL. It is simply a risk mitigation of the potential for someone with deep access from running a small script that can devastate the business to point of ruination. As I’ve said it may be a vanishingly unlikely risk, but even a minuscule risk that can destroy your company is one that needs to be addressed. And locking and suspending access immediately is the easiest, least expensive way to mitigate. Policies like this are highly dependent on position and access. I’ve worked at a few very large companies that had more robust access policies that would make any one single person unable to wreak havoc. So walking someone out on a resignation or lay-off was less common. But a LOT of companies don’t have these type of security policies enacted for people with access to infrastructure or systems (or it’s so poorly implemented it’s non-existent). In those cases, a walk-out is the rational move until they can get their Security Policy house in order. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Mar 27, 2018 |
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Mar 27, 2018 23:25
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Ok, home I am, so, regarding the 1300:1 ratio. My last job, I was the only installer and tech support for a credit card processor that serviced 1300+ local clients around my region of the state. My job was: Contact new customers after initial account setup, figure out what credit terminal(s) they would need, set up an appointment for install, program new terminal(s), bring them out(up to an hour away) to the client site, install, test, train clients on operations. In cases where client had a credit card terminal, bring old terminal back for either reprogramming or recycling. As well, I was also the sole point of contact for troubleshooting of terminals. Typically, this could be done over the phone, as long as I was either at my desk computer, or near my corporate iPad. In cases where OTP couldn't solve it, I'd make an appointment to go out to the client site ASAP to fix whatever was broken. "Broken" in this case, could mean anything from changing a receipt header, to figuring out why the terminal wasn't connecting out over either phone or internet, teaching clients how to change the paper(we had like 5 visual guides for this), supplying paper, or anything else related to any of that. This really only became a huge issue during the EMV switch over. We tried to be proactive, and spent 6 months before the deadline calling clients constantly about the switch over, trying to get them into terminals that would work for the new setup. It really didn't help that First Data pushed back EMV by... IIRC like 8 months past the due date? Because they were behind on their poo poo, and couldn't get working code out to people like us. Imagine having to call ~300 clients, install new stuff for new clients, take phone calls from existing clients, be in the office to take those calls, but also be out on the road to get to your appointments. I had to remind my (5) bosses nearly every week that I can't drive and be elbow deep in a client's account, changing things via web forms. I can either pull over and stop driving, or tell them to call back, or tell them to call their sales agent and have them get back to me to fix it later. I'm glad I'm no longer there, but I am really unhappy about how that job turned out. Anyway. Ok, so, update on current status of things. I last left off that I had a meeting 1-on-1 with Overseer, and we basically hashed things out. Since then, he's been very hands off, which has been nice. I've been gently pushing my other coworkers to kinda follow in my path and actually say something to Overseer and his boss and get their issues out in the open. Nothing will change if the problems never come to the surface, you know? Anyway, Back this past Friday, I was surprised by HR, who set me up with an appointment to interview for the department switch I applied for, which would bring me over into Good Supervisor's department. The interview went really well, which was great, and today HR called me and asked if I was still interested in the switch(yes), and told me they were just waiting for the paperwork to go through the VP(why?) who would extend the offer with a pay adjustment. It's a small raise, between $1-$2/hour, but more money is always welcome. Even if things went a complete 180 with Overseer, I'd still be switching departments. The one that I'm going to had Good Supervisor, and 2 employees. It's supposed to have 5 employees. Other departments are short more than half a dozen people. It's so bad that apparently there was a management meeting today about how the delays are causing some of our clients to threaten to pull their job orders, which would be a huge blow to the company. Yes, I'm still looking for a new job beyond this one.
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Mar 27, 2018 23:25
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Proteus Jones posted:I feel like I’ve had this conversation before in this thread. But it might have have been one of the others. You spent all that time talking about risk and then totally fail to mention the risk of harm to the business by a critical employee walking out the door without a proper knowledge transfer. Its almost as if none of this exists in a vacuum and judgement calls need to be made in a sensible way. And LOL at giving employees keys to your company if you couldn't trust them partway through a notice period. Sickening fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Mar 27, 2018 |
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Mar 27, 2018 23:33
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Sickening posted:You spent all that time talking about risk and then totally fail to mention the risk of harm to the business by a critical employee walking out the door without a proper knowledge transfer. OK
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Mar 27, 2018 23:38
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neogeo0823 posted:Even if things went a complete 180 with Overseer, I'd still be switching departments. The one that I'm going to had Good Supervisor, and 2 employees. It's supposed to have 5 employees. Other departments are short more than half a dozen people. It's so bad that apparently there was a management meeting today about how the delays are causing some of our clients to threaten to pull their job orders, which would be a huge blow to the company. Yes, I'm still looking for a new job beyond this one. This is a good thing to bring up with the vip/boss handling your raise - they're severely short staffed and losing customers because of it, and its because they hire people like HarassManager - people who can retain their income and get work done are worth their weight in gold. A good time to ask for more, hash out cost of living adjustments, ask what they'll do to keep you.
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Mar 27, 2018 23:41
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Jaded Burnout posted:I also had a colleague walked out the door a week into his notice period because he started bad mouthing the corporation on his public twitter. I had a colleague walked out the door the day after his notice because he told our boss that he was “going to burn through his sick time and float days (non-reimbursable time) and just cruise for the next two weeks.” My manager said, “izzat so?” and had him escorted out. Thereby forfeiting his sick and float days. Guy was a tool.
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Mar 27, 2018 23:50
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The worst is employees who just gently caress off their last two weeks and distract everyone else who still works here
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Mar 28, 2018 00:29
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Thanatosian posted:At least in the U.S., there's no law saying you have to put in two weeks' notice Is a notice period not a common part of your employment contracts?
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Mar 28, 2018 00:45
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Jaded Burnout posted:Is a notice period not a common part of your employment contracts? a what now
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Mar 28, 2018 00:53
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Jaded Burnout posted:Is a notice period not a common part of your employment contracts? Of course, quitting with no notice will get you a bad reference. Being fired with no notice or for lovely/nonexistent reasons, however, has basically no repercussions whatsoever for the employer. FREEDOM!
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Mar 28, 2018 00:57
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Oh man, that is pretty bad. I mean, I'm in the same boat but as I say as a contractor, so I make it up in zeros. That said, I had a client with an asymmetrical notice period; 6 weeks from me, 0 seconds from them. FYI it would be very unusual to have a notice period shorter than a month in the UK for most salaried office jobs, sometimes longer, and always symmetrical.
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Mar 28, 2018 01:01
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Jaded Burnout posted:Oh man, that is pretty bad. I mean, I'm in the same boat but as I say as a contractor, so I make it up in zeros. That said, I had a client with an asymmetrical notice period; 6 weeks from me, 0 seconds from them. The americans make it up in zeros too, compared to others. They have non-existent (almost) taxes as well, but also non-existent (almost) services and social security.
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Mar 28, 2018 01:05
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Volguus posted:The americans make it up in zeros too, compared to others. They have non-existent (almost) taxes as well, but also non-existent (almost) services and social security. For tech that seems to be true but my suspicion is the office drones get well hosed.
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Mar 28, 2018 01:11
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The best is when you no longer need the next paycheck (or 12) and the employer doesn’t know how to handle a employee who isn’t beheld to them.
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Mar 28, 2018 01:14
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Jaded Burnout posted:Is a notice period not a common part of your employment contracts? 
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Mar 28, 2018 01:25
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Bob Morales posted:The worst is employees who just gently caress off their last two weeks and distract everyone else who still works here When I put in my notice a few months ago I asked about expectations of notice. They knew I wasn't going to do jack poo poo during those weeks since I had mentally checked out months ago, so said just give us a few days to take care of paperwork and you can write documentation on a few things. Worked for me, was able to get started on the new job sooner and get my partner's insurance back sooner (90% of the reason for switching was a buyout by a company that doesn't recognize domestic partners for insurance....the other 10% was they didn't tell us my partner lost hers until 3 days after the fact).
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Mar 28, 2018 02:06
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Jaded Burnout posted:Is a notice period not a common part of your employment contracts? Your average white collar employment contract is basically a 'we pay you to do a thing, and can decide you are fired for any reason or no reason, at any time. You are expected to provide X weeks notice when quitting or moving to a new place of employment'. Notice how they say expected, not required? None of it is legally enforceable. All they can do is give you a lovely recommendation, all you can do is tell your potential new employer that you left your last job due to irreconcilable differences of opinion. A LOT of companies gently caress themselves out of knowledge transfer and suffer for months or years after the fact, or end up with huge outages or emergencies that would have been mitigated if they kept the guy around to transition things. SSL certs? We need those for our critical infrastructure to talk to the rest of the internet? Whaaaaaaaa? On the other hand with cloud backups and what not the equivalent of 20 hours of malicious rm -rf scripting could basically remove the firm as a going concern if the dude retains access past his firing date. On the third hand, a dude who gives his notice due to a better offer or a disagreement with management is still generally trustworthy enough, make him document all the poo poo he's working on and all the passwords he's privy to, then shake his hand on his last day and give him a giftcard or something. It's all about trust. "gently caress you all, I loving quit, and god help you if I ever come back" is a lot different from "Sorry bossman, I have a better offer, with better benefits and pay, here is my formal resignation and X weeks notice, as stipulated in my employment contract".
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