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Main Paineframe posted:one of these three is not like the other. are journalists allowed to scramble supposedly direct quotes this much? It's possible that the original quote is in Hebrew and each paper has made different translations?
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May 18, 2018 00:56
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:It's possible that the original quote is in Hebrew and each paper has made different translations? even more likely is that whatever paper in the three quoted just copy pasted the quote from the previous publisher
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May 18, 2018 02:05
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the guardian, newsweek, and nyt all cite haaretz as the original source of the quote but only nyt felt the need to heavily edit it nyt is writing that haaretz said that the guy said that quote which is not true. haaretz said the guy said something different
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May 18, 2018 02:27
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Also the NYT version doesn't make sense. "Unfortunately, some of the overwhelming pictures have been by a knockout" is not a sentence. e: unless he wants to gently caress the photographer Goon Danton has issued a correction as of 03:17 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 02:30
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an actual dog posted:the failing new york times
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May 18, 2018 03:15
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https://twitter.com/ResistanceHole/status/997210099113488384?s=20
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May 18, 2018 05:51
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Goon Danton posted:Also the NYT version doesn't make sense. "Unfortunately, some of the overwhelming pictures have been by a knockout" is not a sentence. sounds like NYT used google translate
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May 18, 2018 05:59
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Who is the NYTimes even targeted at now? Most of the liberal types in D&D and what have you don't even think it's good and seem to have chosen WaPo as their Respectable Newspaper of choice. Maybe older liberals?
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May 18, 2018 08:15
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the “manhattan middle class”
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May 18, 2018 08:20
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Ytlaya posted:Who is the NYTimes even targeted at now? Most of the liberal types in D&D and what have you don't even think it's good and seem to have chosen WaPo as their Respectable Newspaper of choice. Maybe older liberals?
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May 18, 2018 08:20
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Ytlaya posted:Who is the NYTimes even targeted at now? Most of the liberal types in D&D and what have you don't even think it's good and seem to have chosen WaPo as their Respectable Newspaper of choice. Maybe older liberals? Manhattan dinner party consensus.
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May 18, 2018 11:33
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/997440312472686592
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May 18, 2018 12:41
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between this and Friedman you’d think they put murderboner juice in the loving water
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May 18, 2018 12:55
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Taintrunner posted:between this and Friedman you’d think they put murderboner juice in the loving water well, Brooks has a certain particular interest in whitewashing IDF crimes https://mobile.twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/997442298412716032
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May 18, 2018 14:09
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somewhag surprised maggie is one of the few big reporters not being brow beaten into saying the animals comment was about ms 13 https://twitter.com/maggienyt/status/997465119989878784?s=21 https://twitter.com/maggienyt/status/997469169510682626?s=21
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May 18, 2018 15:48
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the fact that 10,000 unarmed civilians have been intentionally gunned down by an occupying nation in the last 2 months, 61 of them killed, is a surreal moment in modern history. these are dark times
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May 18, 2018 18:36
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:somewhag surprised maggie is one of the few big reporters not being brow beaten into saying the animals comment was about ms 13 i'm legit shocked that maga crackerman isn't playing along with it
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May 18, 2018 18:37
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PRESTON BOOKS - SPECIAL TO CSPAM - Now Wait for Last Year As you know, everybody sees the Middle East through his or her own narrative. Conservatives see it through the “front line in the war on terror” narrative and defend Israel’s actions on the Gaza border fence this week. Progressives see it through the “continued colonialist oppression” narrative and condemn those actions. I see the situation through the “extremism corrupts everybody” narrative. My narrative starts with the idea that the creation of the state of Israel was a historic achievement involving a historic wrong — the displacement of 700,000 Palestinians. For two generations, in what we can call the Yitzhak Rabin era, the leaders of Israel and of Palestinians tried, sometimes dysfunctionally and bloodily, to address this wrong and find two homelands around the pre-1967 borders. But sometime in the 1990s, a mental shift occurred. Extremism grew on the Israeli side, exemplified by the ultranationalist who murdered Rabin, but it exploded on the Palestinian side. Palestinian extremism took on many of the shapes recognizable in extremism everywhere. First, the question shifted from “What to do?” to “Whom to blame?” The debates were less about how to take steps toward a livable future and more about who is responsible for the sins of the past. The central activity became moral condemnation, with vindication as the ultimate goal. Second, the dream of total victory became the only acceptable dream. In normal politics, certain longstanding debates are never really settled; competing parties instead reach an accommodation that works in the moment. But extremists stop trying to win partial victories, insisting that someday they will get everything they want — that someday the other side will magically disappear. You have #! free articles remaining. Subscribe to The Times Third, extremists over time replace strategic thinking with theatrical thinking. Strategic thinking is about the relation of means to ends: How do we use what we have to get to where we want to go? Theatrical thinking is both more cynical and more messianic: How do we create a martyrdom performance that will show the world how oppressed we are? Palestinian politics has shifted. It shifted from 1967 thinking to 1948 thinking. If you read the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas’s April 30 speech or much of the commentary published over the past week, it’s clear that some powerful Palestinians now believe that the creation of the state of Israel is the wrong that needs to be addressed, not the expansion and occupation. They rejected incrementalism. After Israel withdrew from its settlements in Gaza, the Palestinians could have declared a new opening, taking advantage of the influx of humanitarian aid. Instead, they elected Hamas, an organization that lists the extermination of the state of Israel as an existential goal. They expended resources that could have improved infrastructure to fund missiles and terrorist tunnels. EDITORS’ PICKS Wheelchair Sex inhibited in the Last Place You’d Expect 45 Stories of Sex -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and Ferment on Campus The Dew Soma: Frequently Asked Questions Finally, they lost any strategic consciousness. Yasir Arafat was once a terrorist, but at least he used terror to win practical concessions. The actions today — the knife attacks, the manipulation of protesters to rush the border fence — are of little military or strategic value. They are ventures in suicidal theater. When faced with an extremist, you have two choices: counter the extremist mind-set with your own or reject that mind-set and double down on pragmatism. By and large, Israel has taken the former path. The shift from the politics of Rabin and Shimon Peres to that of Benjamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman is a move from pluralism to ethnocentrism, from relentless engagement to segregation. It’s a shift from tough realism to the magical thinking that Palestinians are somehow going to go away. It is clearly in Israel’s interest to maneuver the Palestinians away from extremism and to weaken the extremists in its own ranks. And yet sometimes Israeli policies seem callously designed to guarantee an extremist response. Take the events of this week. For months Israeli security forces had been warning the prime minister and the defense minister that Gaza was in crisis mode and bound to blow. Hamas had long signaled that it would do exactly what it did at the Gaza fence on Monday, inciting a massive border invasion. There was plenty of time to figure out how to handle the crowds without bloodshed. “And so the main question,” Amos Harel asked in Haaretz, “is what did Israel do to prevent this blood bath before it happened? The answer is, almost nothing was done.” That’s the problem with extremism: It is a flight from reality. It makes you stupider. Instead of cleverly working to advance your own interest in a changing context, you end up shouting your own moral justifications into a whirlwind. Instead of restating your own values — for pluralism, for a compromise, for peace — you end up another soiled part of the climate. Advertisement The Times needs your voice. We welcome* your on-topic commentary, criticism and expertise. *Assuming you are rich, white, highly cosseted by both previous states My narrative doesn’t absolve the Palestinians from responsibility for their choices. But it doesn’t let the Israelis off the hook for their failure to properly confront extremism. Extremism is naturally contagious. To fight it, whether at home or abroad, you have to answer the angry shout with the respectful offer. It feels unnatural. But it’s the only way.
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May 18, 2018 19:30
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RaySmuckles posted:the fact that 10,000 unarmed civilians have been intentionally gunned down by an occupying nation in the last 2 months, 61 of them killed, is a surreal moment in modern history. these are dark times god drat america
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May 18, 2018 20:32
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dangerous and unacceptable https://twitter.com/emmaroller/status/997528879328874498?s=21
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May 18, 2018 20:41
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https://twitter.com/pattymo/status/997549535273672706 I can actually respect this, good job Barry. Nebakenezzer posted:PRESTON BOOKS - SPECIAL TO CSPAM - Now Wait for Last Year Getting massacred by the military is terrorism, got it. *sees people getting beaten to death at Selma* How theatrical. pospysyl has issued a correction as of 02:41 on May 19, 2018 |
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May 19, 2018 02:19
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Main Paineframe posted:the failing washington post holy poo poo
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May 19, 2018 05:10
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So, uh, give this one a look. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/opinion/israel-defend-gaza-border.html Israel Needs to Protect Its Borders. By Whatever Means Necessary. By Shmuel Rosner Mr. Rosner is a contributing opinion writer and the political editor at The Jewish Journal. TEL AVIV — It is customary to adopt an apologetic tone when scores of people have been killed, as they were this week in Gaza. But I will avoid this sanctimonious instinct and declare coldly: Israel had a clear objective when it was shooting, sometimes to kill, well-organized “demonstrators” near the border. Israel was determined to prevent these people — some of whom are believed to have been armed, most apparently encouraged by their radical government — from crossing the fence separating Israel from Gaza. That objective was achieved. Of course, the death of humans is never a happy occasion. Still, I feel no need to engage in ingénue mourning. Guarding the border was more important than avoiding killing, and guarding the border is what Israel did successfully. Why so many thousands of Gazans decided to approach that fence, even though they were warned that such acts would be lethal, is beyond comprehension. Excuses and explanations are many: The event was declared a “march of return,” supposedly an attempt by Palestinian refugees to return to their places of origin within Israel; it was tied in many news reports to the opening of the American embassy in Jerusalem; it was explained by referring to undesirable living conditions in Gaza and the lack of prospects for improvement; it was explained as related to intra-Palestinian political conflict and to the need of Hamas, the terrorist group that runs Gaza, to divert the attention from its many failures. All of those things may have some degree of validity, but they don’t explain why people joined these demonstrations. Obviously, the people of Gaza weren’t seriously thinking that Israel would give them a “right of return” if they only marched in numbers large enough. And they probably realized that United States would not rescind its decision to open an embassy in Jerusalem, either. And they knew that for the economic situation to improve something more systematic must take place than protests. So why did they march, and why were some of them killed? They marched because they are desperate and frustrated. Because living in Gaza is not much better than living in hell. They marched against Israel because they dislike Israel, and because they cannot march against anyone else. Israel puts Gaza under siege, bombs it occasionally, and is still remembered as an occupying power and as the country whose establishment made many Palestinians consider themselves refugees to this day. They marched to Israel because the alternative to marching against Israel would be to march against Hamas, a regime whose actions and policies make Gaza suffer. But if people had dared do that, their government would no doubt have killed scores of them without much hesitation. Israel has a soft belly. Unlike all the other regimes in the Middle East, it accepts basic Western values and thus tries to minimize casualties. It also has an impressive military power, so it’s easy to accuse it of “disproportional response.” And of course, it is the country that could lift the siege on Gaza. Critics of Israel tend to mix two types of complaints about its actions in recent days. Why did Israel shoot, rather than use other means of preventing people from crossing the border? And why does Israel isolate Gaza, making its economic situation so dire and its population so desperate? These criticisms must be answered separately, as one — the shooting — is tactical, and the other, the isolation, is strategic. First, let’s begin with undisputed facts: The marches were at least partly orchestrated by Hamas. And according to Hamas, most demonstrators killed by Israel were members of the group. This was not a peaceful act of protest. This was a provocation by an organization known to engage in acts of terrorism. Thus, Israel had no choice but to treat it as an attempt not just to violate its territorial integrity but also to attack it. Israel had to take precautions against its soldiers and citizens being killed or kidnapped. It had to make sure that thousands of Palestinians did not force a total shutdown of southern Israel until all infiltrators were located and detained. Knowing Hamas and its tactics, Israel assumed — for good reason — that letting the marchers cross the fence and detaining them later would have had worse consequences: Hamas operatives masquerading as demonstrators would hurt Israelis. Of course, the question of Israel’s larger policy toward Gaza remains. But the answer is hardly a secret: Israel pulled out of Gaza more than a decade ago. All it wants from Gaza is peace and quiet. But what it gets from Gaza is different: It is an attempt by Hamas to build a base for violence against Israel. To prevent this, Gaza must be isolated until its leaders are replaced or until they realize that their war against Israel hurts the population they rule more than it hurts Israel. And yes, this means that people in Gaza suffer more than they should — not because of Israel, because of Hamas. It would be dishonest for me to pretend that the interests of Palestinians are at the top of the list of my priorities. I want what’s good for Israel and I expect my government to have similar priorities. Nevertheless, I believe Israel’s current policy toward Gaza ultimately benefits not only Israel but also the Palestinians. Of course, it does not benefit the Palestinians who dream about “returning,” or in other words, about eliminating Israel. But it is the only way forward for those who have more realistic expectations. The people of Gaza are miserable. They deserve sympathy and pity. But looking for Israel to remedy their problems will only exacerbate their misery. Expecting Israel to solve their problem will only lead them to delay what they must do for themselves. There are two reasons for that. First, denying Hamas any achievement is the only way to ultimately persuade the Palestinians to abandon the futile battle for things they cannot get (“return,” control of Jerusalem, the elimination of Israel) and toward policies that will benefit their people. If Hamas is rewarded for organizing violent events, if the pressure on it is reduced because of the demonstrations, the result will be more demonstrations — and therefore more bloodshed, mostly Palestinian. Second, only an Israel that has the ability to feel secure about its borders could engage in any serious talks with the Palestinians. As Ehud Barak, a former prime minister and a critic of Israel’s current government, put it, “Those who believe in having separation from the Palestinians, getting into a peace agreement, having borders — you have to make clear that borders are respected.” The Jewish sages had a famous, if not necessarily pleasant, saying that went something like this: Those who are kind to the cruel end up being cruel to the kind. As harsh as this sounds amid the scenes from Gaza, as problematic as this seems to good-intentioned people whose instinct is to sympathize with the weaker side in every conflict, sometimes there is no better choice than being clear, than being firm, than drawing a line that cannot be crossed by those wanting to harm you. By fire, if necessary. Shmuel Rosner (@rosnersdomain) is the political editor at The Jewish Journal, a senior fellow at the Jewish People Policy Institute and a contributing opinion writer. Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.
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May 19, 2018 07:06
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has there been a single pro palestinian take in this garbage paper
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May 19, 2018 07:18
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I'm wondering if there's been a single pro palestinian take in all of establishment liberal media.quote:The Jewish sages had a famous, if not necessarily pleasant, saying that went something like this: Those who are kind to the cruel end up being cruel to the kind. 
Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 07:31 on May 19, 2018 |
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May 19, 2018 07:29
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if i didn't know better i'd say this is some kind of behavioral exercise designed with the intent to make people actually despise the existence of israel
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May 19, 2018 07:35
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unsubscribe from the nyt stop linking directly to their articles, only copy and paste force this garbage paper to stop giving pages to bloodthirsty monsters
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May 19, 2018 07:38
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every single one of these is opeds is received with pure loathing on twitter, this cannot be what the readers want to see
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May 19, 2018 07:38
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If even child murder - and there's no plausible deniability here where the IDF isn't engaging directly with an intent to murder children - is no longer beyond the pale, then we're heading for a global genocide that will be waged on all of the deprived peoples of the world. There is no feat of mental gymnastics too great for these people to rationalize the "just" use of overwhelming deadly force by first world countries. They all belong in gulags, and I don't say that with any irony and I'm not joking. Every single one of these people who have made excuses for this massacre should be put in a camp and forced to work hard labor for the rest of their natural lives.
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May 19, 2018 07:41
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babypolis posted:every single one of these is opeds is received with pure loathing on twitter, this cannot be what the readers want to see what readers want to see is irrelevant to propaganda, and the death of the nyt itself would not stop them from editorializing about the brave idf conscript securing a future for
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May 19, 2018 07:41
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lol that even hardcore Israel apologists can't stop sounding like cartoon supervillains anymore. 'We need to destroy their dreams'
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May 19, 2018 07:49
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babypolis posted:every single one of these is opeds is received with pure loathing on twitter, this cannot be what the readers want to see the people in power want to see this. the readers are almost immaterial
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May 19, 2018 07:54
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My expectation from NYT is unflinching defense of Israel but that Op-Ed is still somehow worse than expected.
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May 19, 2018 07:57
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https://twitter.com/samfromglam/status/997707330782314498
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May 19, 2018 07:59
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Well they publish pro-nazi poo poo, so I would answer that with a "yes".
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May 19, 2018 08:08
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:If even child murder - and there's no plausible deniability here where the IDF isn't engaging directly with an intent to murder children - is no longer beyond the pale, then we're heading for a global genocide that will be waged on all of the deprived peoples of the world. There is no feat of mental gymnastics too great for these people to rationalize the "just" use of overwhelming deadly force by first world countries. They all belong in gulags, and I don't say that with any irony and I'm not joking. Every single one of these people who have made excuses for this massacre should be put in a camp and forced to work hard labor for the rest of their natural lives. its incredibly monstrous and erodes my belief in pacifist revolutions
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May 19, 2018 08:30
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:If even child murder - and there's no plausible deniability here where the IDF isn't engaging directly with an intent to murder children - is no longer beyond the pale, then we're heading for a global genocide that will be waged on all of the deprived peoples of the world. There is no feat of mental gymnastics too great for these people to rationalize the "just" use of overwhelming deadly force by first world countries. They all belong in gulags, and I don't say that with any irony and I'm not joking. Every single one of these people who have made excuses for this massacre should be put in a camp and forced to work hard labor for the rest of their natural lives.
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May 19, 2018 09:48
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she can't keep getting silenced like this https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/997794027864027137
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May 19, 2018 12:02
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Jose posted:she can't keep getting silenced like this quote:“I agree with you,” Maher replied. “They planned that. Absolutely.” You can't just assume that being intentionally provocative regarding deeply sensitive international issues could lead to a mass murder.
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May 19, 2018 12:11
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lmao bill maher is such a piece of poo poo
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May 19, 2018 13:55
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