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New MoL is up and it looks like there are probably only a few chapters left!
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May 28, 2018 18:04
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Hope they’ll throw in a few chapters in “the real” Tie up some lose ends. Deal with all the crap.
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May 28, 2018 18:14
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Kyoujin posted:Practical Guide: I can't wait to see what Juniper has planned but also worried about the consequences of deploying goblin fire after what we learned previously. On one hand, I'd like to say no way it does, because that's blatantly stacking the deck when literal resurrection is being used on one side, on the other, that's the exact sort of poo poo the Heavens pull.
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May 28, 2018 20:52
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Unsure exactly what the ward release plan is for tues/sat, but this current interlude is running daily for the rest of the week I believe. ward exclipse x.3: Something I noted but didn't entirely realize on reading what the context of Bonesaw's tea party. At the end of the tea party she drugged them, then disposed of the clones by boiling alive, and the text notes that some of them woke up during that. So Ashley stating that she recalls what happened after the tea party has some implications for shards pulling memories, but more importantly that whole interaction shows that she is probably the person who has the best chance to truely 'get' Victoria.
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May 28, 2018 21:15
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ZypherIM posted:Unsure exactly what the ward release plan is for tues/sat, but this current interlude is running daily for the rest of the week I believe.
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May 28, 2018 23:54
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Ytlaya posted:I'm actually a little surprised that the original DoD managed to stay in action so long; her power seems like the sort of thing where 1. you'd end up killing some people at some point, accidentally or otherwise, and 2. it's impossible to imprison her unless it's something like the Birdcage, since it can punch through any normal material, and it seems like those two things would end up resulting in either her being sent to the Birdcage or being killed I think it helped that the PRT really wanted to get her on board to see what she would do an Endbringer or other invulnerable threats. PetraCore posted:I wonder if the clones can get shard-pulled memories from other clones on their template. Like, active at the same time, I mean, since Ashley remembering the 'tea party' confirms it can happen in sequence. We've seen twins sharing a shard before. Were Fenja and Menja sharing memories, I wonder?
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May 29, 2018 01:27
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Cryophage posted:I think it helped that the PRT really wanted to get her on board to see what she would do an Endbringer or other invulnerable threats. That's a good point; she seems like exactly the kind of parahuman Cauldron would protect from behind the scenes for the purposes of using against Scion. I actually wonder how an Endbringer would deal with her. Presumably the same way they deal with other parahumans that could potentially seriously harm them - that is, by using precognition to never end up in a fight where they're there in the first place.
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May 29, 2018 02:55
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Worth The Candle side story is up: https://archiveofourown.org/works/14777618/chapters/34177826
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May 29, 2018 03:09
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Jon Joe posted:New MoL is up and it looks like there are probably only a few chapters left! This plot development has been something a lot of people both been anticipating or dreading. And it does seem something that needs space to work through itself. TWI: We have a goblin chapter. It is nice, but does not really does anything new.
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May 29, 2018 11:37
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TWI: I was underwhelmed by the Greydath reveal. Obviously the old goblin had been built up to be more than meets the eye, so the fact that he's a powerful Goblin Lord isn't too surprising. I was annoyed at how the reveal 100% made him into a new character - he didn't seem to be faking his senile old man shtick from the past several books, but all of a sudden he is tall and powerful and disdainful of Rags when he previously had been old and shriveled and supportive. Like, there is literally nothing similar between Greydath and Greybeard, and that to me is a lovely reveal.
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May 29, 2018 13:24
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Yeah I didn't really feel that chapter at all, the reveal made no sense and the way the knights were handled was kind of anticlimactic. Which is a shame, because many of the past several chapters have been pirateaba at the absolute top of her game and it feels like that chapter could have been a lot better.
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May 29, 2018 14:53
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Not having similar mannerisms is sort of the point of a disguise. I think when a Goblin Lord is kill-on-sight to almost everything including possibly other goblins, you want to be forgotten and unnoticed. The major civilizations send armies to kill Goblin Lords, the Goblin Lord of Blades was thought to be dead. He did the smart thing. Same goes for the Necromancer's minions. They masqueraded as gold-ranked adventurers for years and had totally different personalities.
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May 29, 2018 15:09
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Silynt posted:TWI: I was underwhelmed by the Greydath reveal. Obviously the old goblin had been built up to be more than meets the eye, so the fact that he's a powerful Goblin Lord isn't too surprising. I was annoyed at how the reveal 100% made him into a new character - he didn't seem to be faking his senile old man shtick from the past several books, but all of a sudden he is tall and powerful and disdainful of Rags when he previously had been old and shriveled and supportive. Like, there is literally nothing similar between Greydath and Greybeard, and that to me is a lovely reveal.
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May 29, 2018 15:12
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I unsubscribed from twi because it meandered too much. No real focus. Parts of the last few chapters have been interesting but its sliding into “meh” territory again. Still wish we could pay for more mother of learning though 
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May 29, 2018 15:18
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So are the orcs/goblins in Practical Guide to Evil basically like the ones in Warcraft appearance-wise? I'm getting that general vibe from the descriptions so far, though I'm unsure whether it has the same "orc males have big broad shoulders while females have more human-ish shapes" thing going on. I like Black a lot, he's a fun dude even if he kills people sometimes. I get the general vibe that, given the general standards of the world they live in, the reforms under Black (like giving greenskins more rights and maintaining law and order) might be providing a superior general quality of life to that of other nations, possibly including the major Good-aligned one. Scribe's comments to Catherine about Black (implying her and the Calamities would rather Black be Emperor) when she first went to the Tower were interesting.
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May 29, 2018 18:26
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Affi posted:I unsubscribed from twi because it meandered too much. There's another word I could think of for that... 
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May 29, 2018 18:50
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TheRagamuffin posted:There's another word I could think of for that... Ambled? Dawdled? Moseyed?
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May 29, 2018 21:39
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Practical Guide - who knew that doing classically evil things comes back to bite you in the rear end? At least they came up with some basic mitigation. Disappointing that this will probably result in a sidetrack.
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May 30, 2018 05:50
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lurksion posted:Practical Guide - who knew that doing classically evil things comes back to bite you in the rear end? At least they came up with some basic mitigation. Disappointing that this will probably result in a sidetrack. If this is the most recent chapter then I wonder if they are going to use Akua controlled Catherine as a weapon. Based on the last battle, and her sudden reappearance, I can see that alone causing a total retreat. I guess it depends on how thorough the bindings are, and I guess with Masego still out of it they can probably only contain her. Oh well. Unless previous oaths about assisting the army are still in effect. And to be honest, Akua isn't nearly as good a fighter as Cat, and Saint at least would absolutely engage her again, and notice. I really enjoy Abigail's point of view the more I see it.
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May 30, 2018 06:03
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NinjaDebugger posted:Suppose that cat's body is not in flux because of the strike, but because it weakened her enough that Akua is making a play to take it over, and may, at least temporarily, win. 
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May 30, 2018 13:59
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Well, I hope somebody picks up that phone, because I loving CALLED IT. I'm just glad that it was obvious enough in character that they took precautions, and they actually worked!
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May 30, 2018 14:05
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SerSpook posted:More Practical Guide: Anyone else getting the sense that part of Pilgrim and Saint's plan is to try to turn Catherine? The Heavens have tried it once already after all, and the exchange late in the interlude about how what's going on isn't a villain's story and then Saint questioning Pilgrim if he's sure of what he saw--sure that she desires peace--suggests that's something being considered at least. If Saint and Pilgrim can catch Cat while she's deep enough in the fey (once she returns) they may be able to trap her into a redemption narrative the way she trapped her retroactive father into getting killed.
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May 30, 2018 14:08
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NinjaDebugger posted:If Saint and Pilgrim can catch Cat while she's deep enough in the fey (once she returns) they may be able to trap her into a redemption narrative the way she trapped her retroactive father into getting killed. Wait, by retroactive father do you mean black? Because I thought she less trapped him into a redemption narrative, and more just sidestepped out of the narrative he intended for her.
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May 30, 2018 15:10
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Omi no Kami posted:Wait, by retroactive father do you mean black? Because I thought she less trapped him into a redemption narrative, and more just sidestepped out of the narrative he intended for her.
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May 30, 2018 15:51
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NinjaDebugger posted:If Saint and Pilgrim can catch Cat while she's deep enough in the fey (once she returns) they may be able to trap her into a redemption narrative the way she trapped her retroactive father into getting killed. She didn't trap him in any narrative, inadvertently or not. If you ask me about it the last half of the story so far has been creation making Black pay the price for what he did for the first half of the story. Cat is RIDICULOUS, but the whole being the protagonist thing is only partially the reason. The other part comes from Black Knight, because Black Knight hates The Rules. He hates that Evil cannot Win. His reasons for wanting to win are actually fairly modest in the grand scheme of things. But he intentionally broke basically every rule, metagamed his way into having a ridiculous Squire. Once he was sure that Catherine had Learn he made her exploit the poo poo out of it. Throughout the months following her joining up he intentionally showed her basically every avenue of power he was certain she could tap into, didn't tell her anything about the limits and then motivated her to go exploit them. Oh and because he's black he didn't just teach her those things. He taught her about his pet peeve too, he taught her to powergame Stories. Sure in some ways every Named makes use of Stories, all of them are aware of them, its core to them. But Black and Catherine use them as weapons. Cat was a Squire, a transitional Name, operating on the level of full names with many years of experience. The people who are on her level are few and Big Deals. Named who have been around for decades, people leveraging empires, legacies and armies against her. Or those willing to sacrifice everyone but themselves to push for their goals. As as bloody squire. And that is just the power of her Name, because Black and Malicia did something else. Catherine is a villain, she signed up with the badguy's, this has certain narrative consequences. Like friends you can't trust, mentors who want to undermine you or use you and just generally a lot of misery unless you are willing to simply never trust, only exploit. But that isn't what happened. Cat started this story with a dead social life, the first thing Black did upon finishing initial education was send her off to War College and sure part of that was about learning how to command a legion, and the other part was getting her a social life. A trustworthy and loyal circle of friends. They actually background checked everyone close to her to make sure they were not being leveraged. She gets a girlfriend, they just tell her that's "good for you". It may not have been on purpose but once Black saw they were developing a familial bond he certainly didn't stop it, that's not a villain thing to do unless you plain to one-sidedly exploit it. Captain basically becomes an aunt. If you look at the challenges and goals they set her starting out it feels super important to Catherine but behind the scenes its not a big deal and salvageable if she fails. For instance, lets say she doesn't win the wargames ? Fine Akua can have a legion, not a big loss in the grand scheme of things. Probably a good idea to have her get more education in this case anyway. But the pressure keeps her stupid growth going. Its too much too fast though and Creation doesn't like being cheated, so suddenly things everyone expected they still had time to prepare for start happening right now. The Callowan Rebellion, its fine they think it was going to happen anyway and its good for Cat to participate. Now that she's secured a powerbase in Callow we can reset and The Dread Empress can start working on her political education. Nope. Fine now that the Fae incursion is dealt with... NOPE. Okay Akua was a disaster and we shouldn't have kept her around as a foil for Catherine and it'll take years to repair our interpersonal relations but we can still recovNOPE! Black made the most ridiculous Squire imaginable. So Creation stole her back. Now she's not Squire anymore so even if he dies she won't get his Name, she's cut all emotional ties with both of them which hurts because you can bet that whole surrogate father thing didn't go just one way. She's politically even further detached and Grey Pilgrim seems to be angling for a redemption thing. This is not a coincidence. It killed Captain, it killed his friendship with Malicia. Black Knight hates the rules and has spent years breaking them and exploiting them and Cat was one step to far. Now Creation is angling for the jugular, it'll take some doing because that man does not die easily and this is one thing he'll fight harder than any other battle. Hell he might even win, but its hurting and its going to hurt more. And when it cant hurt him personally it'll hurt him through every other possible avenue.
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May 30, 2018 16:41
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Tzarnal posted:snip a whole lot of dumb poo poo ranting about Black Who the gently caress is talking about Black? He's her adoptive father figure, not her retroactive one. I'm talking about her literally trapping the winter prince into a narrative where she had been his prophesied daughter destined to kill him all along.
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May 30, 2018 17:01
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NinjaDebugger posted:Who the gently caress is talking about Black? He's her adoptive father figure, not her retroactive one. I'm talking about her literally trapping the winter prince into a narrative where she had been his prophesied daughter destined to kill him all along. It looks like I'm bad at reading. Sorry. Yeah,I think you're right about that.
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May 30, 2018 17:11
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While that was definitely a lot of inane ranting, I think it's fair to say that "retroactive father" isn't a very clear way to describe who you were talking about. Just say Duke of Violent Squalls, or "that Duke she stole the mantle from"
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May 30, 2018 17:12
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Silynt posted:While that was definitely a lot of inane ranting, But I didn't even post.
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May 30, 2018 17:13
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This is just a general question, but do those of you who have read all the current Practical Guide to Evil get the impression that the main story beats have been planned out from the beginning? I'm asking mostly because I think that's one of the things that allowed Worm to do so well, despite its many flaws; wildbow obviously had the main ideas of "these are the main bad guys, they have these motives, etc" planned out from early on. I also think serials like this benefit strongly from always having a goal to work towards, since otherwise they just start meandering (I get the impression this may be happening with Wandering Inn, judging from people's posts). Currently I'm at the point where Catherine just negotiated a draw with Juniper and it's been made pretty clear that the next story beat will probably be with the Lone Swordsman (whose perspective also confirmed my assumption that a lot of the Good side is racist towards greenskins). As an unrelated note, I have a strong hunch that Catherine might hook up with that red-head mage.
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May 31, 2018 18:18
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Ward: This is probably just residual protagonist goggles from Worm, but do you guys find it kind of weird how the same PRT that went out of its way to demonize Taylor and harassed her throughout her entire highly-restricted probation seems to be going out of its way to try and recruit Ashley? I assume the fact that the latter operated in Armstrong's territory had a lot to do with it, but it's a weird disconnect- the vast majority of Skitter's criminal activity was focused on stomping other gangs and she went out of her way to not kill civilians, whereas Ashley, while certainly well-intentioned, was considerably more destructive and explicitly killed people.
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May 31, 2018 20:12
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Omi no Kami posted:Ward: This is probably just residual protagonist goggles from Worm, but do you guys find it kind of weird how the same PRT that went out of its way to demonize Taylor and harassed her throughout her entire highly-restricted probation seems to be going out of its way to try and recruit Ashley? I assume the fact that the latter operated in Armstrong's territory had a lot to do with it, but it's a weird disconnect- the vast majority of Skitter's criminal activity was focused on stomping other gangs and she went out of her way to not kill civilians, whereas Ashley, while certainly well-intentioned, was considerably more destructive and explicitly killed people. Taylor was kind of open about the fact she thought the PRT and Protectorate were garbage and that she could do things better. She consistently humiliated and undermined them, and I think that made them angrier than just being a violent criminal. Edit: Her second operation was crashing that party with the explicit purpose of humiliating them, and later she did the same by breaking into the HQ. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 20:28 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 20:25
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Ytlaya posted:This is just a general question, but do those of you who have read all the current Practical Guide to Evil get the impression that the main story beats have been planned out from the beginning? I'm asking mostly because I think that's one of the things that allowed Worm to do so well, despite its many flaws; wildbow obviously had the main ideas of "these are the main bad guys, they have these motives, etc" planned out from early on. I also think serials like this benefit strongly from always having a goal to work towards, since otherwise they just start meandering (I get the impression this may be happening with Wandering Inn, judging from people's posts). Pretty sure the author has mentioned a five book outline for PracGuide.
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May 31, 2018 20:53
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I can totally buy that they disliked her on account of being visibly successful in a way that undercut their authority (turning brockton bay into a quasi-feudal duchy probably didn't help), and it's tough to be objective since the unreliable narrator thing means that PRT officials in her scenes were probably 25-50% less douchey than they appeared, and she was a lot scarier, more obnoxious, and harder to deal with than she realized, but it seems like someone at some point in the process would go "This is a teenager with emotional problems, and teenagers aren't the easiest people to deal with before they develop psychiatric pathologies". Heck, Battery spent years raiding PRT convoys and breaking high-profile prisoners out before they could get stuffed into the birdcage, but once they arrested him the PRT seemingly gave him everything he asked for against the express wishes of existing members of the protectorate because he never killed anyone, and Sofia did kill people, and was explicitly known to be kind of a dick by her teammates, but she still got way more latitude than they ever gave Taylor. At least, that's how it looks; you could tell me that if one was to read between the lines enough, Taylor's pathology and general dickishness were antagonistic enough to severely reduce the quality of her treatment by the authorities and I'd probably believe it.
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May 31, 2018 21:00
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Omi no Kami posted:Ward: This is probably just residual protagonist goggles from Worm, but do you guys find it kind of weird how the same PRT that went out of its way to demonize Taylor and harassed her throughout her entire highly-restricted probation seems to be going out of its way to try and recruit Ashley? I assume the fact that the latter operated in Armstrong's territory had a lot to do with it, but it's a weird disconnect- the vast majority of Skitter's criminal activity was focused on stomping other gangs and she went out of her way to not kill civilians, whereas Ashley, while certainly well-intentioned, was considerably more destructive and explicitly killed people. The Undersiders took over a city, and Taylor only gave herself over to the PRT because a pre-cog told her to. They had every reason to be on the look-out for it being a long con, along with other things you guys mentioned.
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May 31, 2018 21:16
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Ytlaya posted:This is just a general question, but do those of you who have read all the current Practical Guide to Evil get the impression that the main story beats have been planned out from the beginning? I'm asking mostly because I think that's one of the things that allowed Worm to do so well, despite its many flaws; wildbow obviously had the main ideas of "these are the main bad guys, they have these motives, etc" planned out from early on. I also think serials like this benefit strongly from always having a goal to work towards, since otherwise they just start meandering (I get the impression this may be happening with Wandering Inn, judging from people's posts). Yup. It's very clear that there was substantial planning ahead for Prac Guide.
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May 31, 2018 21:19
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Omi no Kami posted:Ward: This is probably just residual protagonist goggles from Worm, but do you guys find it kind of weird how the same PRT that went out of its way to demonize Taylor and harassed her throughout her entire highly-restricted probation seems to be going out of its way to try and recruit Ashley? I assume the fact that the latter operated in Armstrong's territory had a lot to do with it, but it's a weird disconnect- the vast majority of Skitter's criminal activity was focused on stomping other gangs and she went out of her way to not kill civilians, whereas Ashley, while certainly well-intentioned, was considerably more destructive and explicitly killed people. I think a lot of this can be laid at Piggot's feet. Recall, Piggot loathes parahumans, is barely civil with her own Protectorate underlings, and hoped that she might accidentally kill a few of the teenage Undersiders and Travelers in the blast when she dropped bombs on the Nine. They then replace Piggot with Tagg, who is exactly the wrong kind of person to deal with Taylor on a human level. In contrast, Miss Militia, Defiant and Dragon were all willing to repeatedly extend Taylor a lot of slack, even after she embarrassed them. They stood up for her when she came over to their side. On top of all that, you've got the fact that Cauldron isn't happy with Taylor's approach, and Cauldron controls the PRT through Costa-Brown, so the whole organization is slanted against her in a way it wouldn't be slanted against a small-time player like Ashley. Ashley also comes across as a lot more overtly pitiable, whereas Taylor comes across at competent, mature, and borderline psychopathic. So much so that apparently most readers think she's actually right about everything Calef fucked around with this message at 22:03 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 21:59
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It’s obvious which serials are planned out and which are just going with the flow.
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May 31, 2018 21:59
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Calef posted:On top of all that, you've got the fact that Cauldron isn't happy with Taylor's approach, and Cauldron controls the PRT through Costa-Brown, so the whole organization is slanted against her in a way it wouldn't be slanted against a small-time player like Ashley. Wait, weren't Cauldron basically Taylor's biggest fans after she got rid of Coil (and completely messed up their existing plan)? My understanding was that WB wrote her into custody before he'd decided how she was going to get out of it, and he'd seriously considered having Tagg railroad her, fasttrack the trial, then have Cauldron yoink her out of the convoy/birdcage and give her a job building the apocalypse prevention taskforce that she ended up doing through the PRT in canon.
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May 31, 2018 22:41
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Omi no Kami posted:Wait, weren't Cauldron basically Taylor's biggest fans after she got rid of Coil (and completely messed up their existing plan)? My understanding was that WB wrote her into custody before he'd decided how she was going to get out of it, and he'd seriously considered having Tagg railroad her, fasttrack the trial, then have Cauldron yoink her out of the convoy/birdcage and give her a job building the apocalypse prevention taskforce that she ended up doing through the PRT in canon. I was under the impression that Cauldron was originally backing Coil, and decided to just support Taylor as the Brockton Bay bigwig after she beat Coil. Though I don't think this support was material in any way and more just "we'll prevent the authorities from using lethal force against you." edit: I'm actually not sure how exactly Cauldron's backing of Coil worked. They didn't give him any resources I don't think, and they certainly didn't prevent his death. They seem to back certain parahumans with powers they deem particularly useful (like Siberian), and maybe they elevated Taylor to that point after a while. (I thought we didn't spoiler general Worm things?) Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:01 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 22:57
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