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Our party had another all day session. We currently are: -Mindthief, Level 9 -Angry Face, Level 7 -Cthulhu, Level 8 -Three Spears, Level 7 It's really weird that our "Level" would be 4: 31 / 4 / 2 = 3.875, which rounds up to 4. Our high level party has been crushing it, so we're looking to move the difficulty up to 5 or 6 to get more monies. Regarding the Demon questline, our party actually fought him right away, Neutralizing the Rift which worked out fine for us, as we progressed through the campaign, but going back we finally unlocked scenarios 35 and 36 and were super saddened to learn we couldn't do either Gloomhaven Battlements scenario because of our choices. We also had to work with the errata we found regarding Aiding the Drake which didn't actually yield a scenario, it was just sort of glossed over that there wasn't much of a reward besides what's written in the book. Really great game, and i'm glad we're playing unspoiled but missing out on cool sounding scenarios is pretty bummer-inducing when our group isn't interested in just "playing them for fun". I'm 9/10ths of the way to unlocking the Two Minis class and I'm really excited to play it given some things I've spoiled for myself online. I'm constantly amazed at how unique every class feels and acts in this game. Makes me very excited to see what gets created in the eventual expansion.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:13
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Gort posted:Yeah, basically means characters like the Spellweaver never get to use that rule since they're terrified of re-drawing and losing their Ether card. And Ubisoft logo and to a lesser degree Lightning Bolt and 3 Spears... That's harsh for those classes. I think I prefer it the "wrong" way. But then maybe I just need to learn to Long Rest sometimes.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:30
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You say that like Three Spears ever needs to rest...
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Jul 10, 2018 00:36
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The cards added in by character retirement are cool.Zurai posted:The problem is that you can't just say "if you're running 2 players halve the numbers" (or anything similar) because the game is designed to be playable by a dynamic group size. And really the quests which require completing scenarios in specific regions or types aren't any better; a lot of groups won't want to repeat scenarios that they've already won (I know ours doesn't) so quests like defeat 3 "Crypt" scenarios that are quite reasonable on the surface become a lot more troublesome when you realize that the vast majority of the Crypts in the game are in the first 10 or so scenarios a given group is likely to do. The dev who did that quest chain said the location requirement was added in quite late to stop people finishing it even sooner. OfChristandMen posted:We also had to work with the errata we found regarding Aiding the Drake which didn't actually yield a scenario, it was just sort of glossed over that there wasn't much of a reward besides what's written in the book. I am pretty sure that questline was unfinished given it unceremoniously ends with a scenario that is generically written so it can be a part of another questline as well,
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Jul 10, 2018 01:25
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Cocks Cable posted:Personal Quests are hit or miss and not at all well balanced. They are definitely one of the weakest elements of the game as a whole, but they're overall effect on the meat of game play is so minor that I don't care too much. They are more or less just an excuse to have a constant and timed drip of new content added to the mix and it's better to just play fast and lose with them rather than be super strict by the rules. We have taken a similar approach in some circumstances. I see no reason to have a less enjoyable experience when we're well within the intention of the mechanic, which I agree with the other guy is basically to allow s gradual revealing of content. This goes both ways. I've just unlocked cthulhu face and I have the quest to do 15 scenarios. I think I may want to play this class longer as xp gain seems slow and I want to try them out at high level. Will I just arbitrarily stop playing them when I'm having most fun? I doubt it. My buddy unlocked envelope X rather than a character (ugh...). And so he's rolled up a mindthief, which he's really enjoying. But his personal quest apparently won't take long. So he may want to game his s bit as well.
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Jul 10, 2018 11:28
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Is Envelope X worth unlocking, or should I get another character first? I don’t want to know contents. My new character pulled that quest and a music note unlock and I picked X because I thought it might be more interesting.
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Jul 10, 2018 13:10
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Fellis posted:Is Envelope X worth unlocking, or should I get another character first? I don’t want to know contents. My new character pulled that quest and a music note unlock and I picked X because I thought it might be more interesting. Broadly speaking, X is not worth its contents if your other quest option unlocks a character.
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Jul 10, 2018 13:14
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Speaking of envelopes, has anyone found anything in Founders of Gloomhaven that makes Envelope A do anything?
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Jul 10, 2018 13:57
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Having no unlock-able rules to address branching quest paths is odd to me because the rules in the book don't work. Not fully, that is. So here I am at the split between 8 and 9. I chose 8. OK, fine, "casual mode" rules declare I can just play 9. But here's the thing - you can only play a scenario in casual mode if you can see it on the world map, and casual mode does not give you end of scenario special benefits. Further quests in a chain becoming revealed on the world map are end of scenario special benefits. Thus I will never legally be allowed to play whatever quests follow directly from 9. As always I want to add the clear disclaimer that I know full well that I can simply look up any scenario I wish in the book, assemble it, and play it, rules be damned. However Rule Zero is never a satisfactory answer to issues in a game. So I was hoping for an official "Elseworlds" sort of thing, maybe hidden away in an envelope. Also I'm pretty sure my copy is missing exactly one monster attack modifier deck card. Can I get a list of what the normal contents of the monster attack modifier deck are so I can isolate what's missing and request a replacement?
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Jul 10, 2018 18:33
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Just use an app, Gloomy Companion has the attack modifier deck too.
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Jul 10, 2018 18:41
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To answer the question, the monster attack modifier deck has 20 cards, which are the same as the player's: +0 x6 +1 x5 -1 x5 +2 x1 -2 x1 (crit) x1 (miss) x1
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Jul 10, 2018 18:50
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It’s the same 20 cards as a player starter deck. Miss, crit, -2, 5x -1, 6x 0, 5x+1, +2.
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Jul 10, 2018 18:50
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K thanks guys. I've been using Gloomhaven Companion yeah. No more questions or quibbles this post, just gonna talk about how mad fun this has been, six scenarios in and at the cusp of Level 3. I feel strong, three-emoji  for my Cragheart. Using Heaving Swing Dirt Tornadoes and Forceful Storm Unstable Upheavals I went Dragonball-nuclear and vaporized four guys at once, at least once, every time during the last three scenarios. That's the peak but my baseline feels godly with Backup Ammunition'd Massive Boulders splash-bombing groups of motherfuckers left and right. Then I punched a zombie into a table and not only executed the bastard from full health but opened up a room that was otherwise trying to force us into traps!But you know what's really incredible? It's that none of my puffed-chest power turns would have been possible without teamwork! Only the Mindthief moving me into position allowed me to go truly  with the Unstable Upheavals. Only the Tinkerer setting me up with a fast Earth energy and an Enhancement Field let me open that one mission with a nuclear Dirtnado. That's really cool and means we all share in the glory. And I've been able to pay them back with relief from status effects, or pushes into position for violent Withering Claw-augmented, Mind's Weakness-bottom into Perverse Edge-top hits, or taking over healing duty so the Tinkerer can drop one of his bombs. It's a rare game where I can simultaneously adore my own character and feel that I'd be eager to do what all my teammates are doing as well.
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Jul 10, 2018 19:16
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I retired my Cragheart a while back and I sorely miss his battlefield control. While I really like my current class (Cthulhu face) it pales in comparison to how fun Cragheart was.
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Jul 10, 2018 19:21
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Cragheart is definitely the most fun class I've never played. Of all the classes my teammates have retired, that is the one I miss the most.
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Jul 10, 2018 19:38
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I'm trying to retire my Cragheart. Not because I don't want to play him anymore, oh no, but because we've only got 1 more quest in my retirement line (which we failed three times). Of course, I've also built him 'wrong', and I still love him. (I went non-obstacle build because our team didn't want it originally.)
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Jul 10, 2018 19:57
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"Wrong" huh? Post your Cragheart builds and tips ITT. As I'm not yet Level 3 I haven't made many decisions. I intend to houserule level-up selection rules regardless but I'd like to know what higher-level Craghearts like to do. I intend to continue doing anything that lets me carpet-bomb the opposition. I do have one more question actually. What does anyone think of house-ruling Scenario Levels 3 and 5 to have, respectively, 3.5x and 4.5x gold conversions? I'm looking into the future and I foresee my team being rather nonplussed at the idea of increasing monster and trap strength for only the reward of 2 more XP on completion. I suppose fairness would include demoting Level 0 to 1.5x conversion, though my team will probably never run another Level 0 again.
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Jul 10, 2018 22:00
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!Klams posted:So someone else could have the same class as me, and unbox it before I complete my personal quest (and given what mine is they definitely would, and there's zero chance my group will allow for house rulings on those) such that I don't get an unboxing? I know its petty but that would seriously make me reconsider playing on at that point. That sucks. You get to pick from two personal quests, and personal quests aren't secret, so someone probably chose a quest with an overlapping reward. As the campaign progresses, you'll more and more often be in a situation where your choices of personal quest are either a) already being worked on or b) already unlocked but that's just the nature of finite classes to unlock. Eventually you'll even run out of side quests and item design.s One minor thing we didn't notice at the time: If you unlock a class by any means that has already been unlocked, you get the random design&sidequest. For a little while, we didn't give ourselves the reward for the reputation benchmark because it had already been unlocked.
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Jul 10, 2018 23:29
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What are everyone's house rules? We've been playing with the following to mostly make things harder. 1) Stamina Potions are -1 cards. This is to reduce the lazy over reliance on them and force more tactical card decisions and hand management. Even at just 1 card, I find minor stamina potion worth it and definitely use it every scenario. 2) No free perks for past retired characters. This feels like a wholly unnecessary rule that's only there to blunt the transition pain of your first retirement. I've retired 5 characters now so it would be ridiculous for me to get 6 free perks. After you get like 3 free perks and some Prosperity, Battle Goals lose all importance and I found myself ignoring them for the most part. There are not nearly enough Perks per character to force interesting decision making so a bunch of extra perks are going to nullify that completely.
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Jul 10, 2018 23:47
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SettingSun posted:I retired my Cragheart a while back and I sorely miss his battlefield control. While I really like my current class (Cthulhu face) it pales in comparison to how fun Cragheart was. It will get fun by level 7 for sure, or sooner if you're willing to mess with your fellow party members (you can usually fix it later). Cocks Cable posted:What are everyone's house rules? We've been playing with the following to mostly make things harder. The first few free perks are a help, especially at lower prosperity levels, but at higher levels the free perks are a handicap for several characters because they make it harder to have a lean modifier deck. I could see several house rules to limit Stamina Potions, including any of the following: 1. Stamina Potions cannot recover cards you played on the turn that you used them. (This prevents playing a strong combo of cards two turns in a row.) 2. Stamina Potions work as written but you must also lose a card. (That's probably too harsh, though making them recover an extra card might help balance out. This change suddenly makes them much less useful to characters with a small hand and much more to those with lots of cards.) 3. Use a minor stamina potion at the end of your turn to treat a short rest as though it were a long rest. (A major potion could have that effect for two rests, marking with a token when it is first used.) 4. Use a minor stamina potion at any time instead of losing a card. (A major potion can be used twice.) Obviously, any change is going to have a considerable impact on gameplay. The -1 card rule, for example, makes minor stamina potions better for characters starting with an odd number of cards. I think the only house rule we've been playing with has been to allow someone whose character hadn't leveled yet to swap a personal quest (Three Spear with the exhaust yourself quest, which was a real mismatch.) Mostly we've been patching fixes upon discovering somebody made a mistake and took both cards at level up instead of one, or should have retired two scenarios ago, or had purchased an item that someone else in the party who missed that week already owned.
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Jul 11, 2018 00:24
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Narsham posted:The first few free perks are a help, especially at lower prosperity levels, but at higher levels the free perks are a handicap for several characters because they make it harder to have a lean modifier deck. Hence one of our house rules HOUSE RULES
I might have forgotten a few. Most of them are to smooth out bumps in campaign progression.
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Jul 11, 2018 01:44
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What's this two stack advantage/disadvantage thing? Credit for wound kills is a good one. That has been an eye-rolling annoyance of mine for a long time. Just place your character token on the wound to track who gave it. If they get wounded again by another character, replace the character token with the new one.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:02
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Cocks Cable posted:What's this two stack advantage/disadvantage thing? If you have advantage and draw a rolling modifier you add the two cards together. If you draw two rolling modifiers you draw another card and add the three together (etc). This means that you are no longer taking the best of two options, which means you can now miss even with advantage. Lots of people (us included) think this is poo poo. Since advantage normally involves comparing two cards one option is to instead compare two stacks (eg stack 1: rolling+1, +0 vs stack 2: +0). There are a few different ways to compare them, like by looking at the total effect or by looking at the terminal cards. It does change the balance slightly (and you can work out how to apply it to disadvantage too) but it feels more elegant and in the spirit of what advantage should do. There's a bit of debate about it though. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 02:34
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Question about one of my group member's retirement goal that opens envelope X: He has to complete 4 scenarios inside Gloomhaven, but then the card says "then unlock scenario 57, then complete scenario 57 to open envelope X. Does completing the 4th scenario unlock scenario 57 or is there another specific scenario we also have to do that unlocks scenario 57? We have completed 3 of the 4 scenarios inside Gloomhaven at this point. I can read the card either way. Also we are at Reputation 9 which means that we only need one more +1 to unlock Sun!  This will probably be our first class unlock and we are all extremely excited about it.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:53
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FAQ posted:For quest cards 510, 513, 521, 526, and 529, I have to fulfill some condition and then unlock a scenario. Does the scenario unlock automatically once the condition is fulfilled or do I have to do something else to unlock it?
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Jul 11, 2018 03:01
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Doctor Spaceman posted:In RAW: We like looking at the total effect, since it still keeps the diminishing-returns aspect of stacking advantage with rolling modifiers (the more rolling mods you have, the more likely you are to hit ambiguity and end up just taking the first pile), but means advantage still avoids you randomly missing unless you're cursed. If you wanted to be a little stronger, you could go for player's-choice with advantaged attacks.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:17
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Doctor Spaceman posted:In RAW:  I've actually been doing this the entire time and never realized I was actually doing it wrong. Was this changed in the 2nd printing maybe?I mainly shoot for advantage when I'm looking to avoid the Null card and Curses and guarantee some damage. RAW is poo poo and makes rolling modifiers very bad 
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Jul 11, 2018 06:44
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We just retired our saw and replaced him with two-minis, leaving us with tinkerer, musicnote, circles, and two minis. Oh my god, we already have the summoner with often 3-4 things out and the tinkerer's killbot, and now we get more summons to stack up the songs on. Feeling like my soothsinger's living the dream right now.
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Jul 11, 2018 11:17
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SuperKlaus posted:"Wrong" huh? Post your Cragheart builds and tips ITT. As I'm not yet Level 3 I haven't made many decisions. I intend to houserule level-up selection rules regardless but I'd like to know what higher-level Craghearts like to do. I intend to continue doing anything that lets me carpet-bomb the opposition. I built my Cragheart as a weird mid-range tank, which is what our original team absolutely wanted. The Cragheart really wants to throw and punch boulders, though, and I took exactly one card for that. However, I had so much fun playing the weird tanky thing. Also, we lost my retirement scenario again last night, but after we all left, one of my friends pointed out that I got a rule horribly wrong. So that thing with 6 shield actually had 0 shield the entire time... and we still managed to get it to 2 health... So next session we're starting with my retirement, because we totally won (retroactively).
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Jul 11, 2018 17:40
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Best Cragheart build is ranged auto damage I think. At level 3 Clear the Way is great and at level 4 Rockslide is great. And they combo together brilliantly. I did a long post about how to gain crazy XP and murder things as Cragheart based on my experiences playing the indomitable Gritface. You can go a few pages back for that, but it basically boils down to creating leaf one turn and consuming it the next. Simple but effective.
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Jul 11, 2018 17:53
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OrthoTrot posted:Best Cragheart build is ranged auto damage I think. At level 3 Clear the Way is great and at level 4 Rockslide is great. And they combo together brilliantly. Yeah, I have Brute Force and Kinetic Charge at those levels. Like I said, our group really didn't want me to be clogging the board with obstacles. I wish I had built that way, but the build I had was still quite good. Definitely Earth hungry, though.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:00
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OmegaGoo posted:Yeah, I have Brute Force and Kinetic Charge at those levels. Like I said, our group really didn't want me to be clogging the board with obstacles. I wish I had built that way, but the build I had was still quite good. Definitely Earth hungry, though. Whatever is strongest I love that almost every class can be played multiple ways like this. I'd be keen to try Craghearting again with that build. Go all in on Retaliate and melee. Just need a lot of damage mitigation and healing I guess.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:17
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Doctor Spaceman posted:In RAW: For our part, we prefer RAW because rolling modifiers are about unpredictability while deck winnowing is about predictability. Missing with advantage bothers me less psychologically than pulling two or three of the same rolling modifier effect (poison/poison/poison, say), even though the latter changes nothing except your chances of pulling that same modifier effect again before you reshuffle and the former means you missed. Like much in Gloomhaven, the characters you play will end up with such different modifier decks that it's a really different experience. I suspect our new Lightning class will really want to be using multiple stacks instead RAW, for example, while my Saw class rarely cared.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:30
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This is all very interesting. I'm reading the discussion and having some  moments. I realized that each character only has about 15 perks, which means you're liable to cross everything off after 8 perks from leveling, 6 perks from checks, and X perks from retirement lineage. As noted the X perks from lineage will also someday provide an excess that essentially translates to check marks becoming meaningless, which is a downer because battle goals are a big part of how the game tries to address co-op's innate issues.This also means that each character either takes a crap load of rolling modifier perks, or watches perks become pointless a hell of a lot faster. Which means the interaction between Advantage and rolling mods is very meaningful to character development. I'm thinking-typing out loud and know you all know this already. As 4e D&D players my group gels easily with "Advantage as take the better of two rolls, Disadvantage as take worse, that's it." That's what I told them it does when explaining because we didn't have any rolling mods yet. We may be about to get some as we creep into third level though so I should be ready. Kind of inclined to go with Jabor's house rule where you play out two different stacks and take better, first where ambiguous. But what are some of the counterarguments? Any other than just that Advantage becomes too strong? edit: different topic, is it intended that enhancements to class cards be limited by the availability of stickers? If we run out of "generate Fire" or whatever is it intended that we can not enhance that way any longer? SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 19:48
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SuperKlaus posted:edit: different topic, is it intended that enhancements to class cards be limited by the availability of stickers? If we run out of "generate Fire" or whatever is it intended that we can not enhance that way any longer? "I included as many as I thought any sane person would need. They are not meant to be limited, but if you want more, as Simon said, you will have to print your own." https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25109042#25109042 quote:But what are some of the counterarguments? Any other than just that Advantage becomes too strong? Our group just hasn't felt like there is any reason to change the rule after ~30 scenarios. Shrug.
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Jul 11, 2018 20:11
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Narsham posted:For our part, we prefer RAW because rolling modifiers are about unpredictability while deck winnowing is about predictability. The only problem is that by RAW you are forced to take those rolling modifiers eventually. You cannot decline to take a perk when one is available to you. You can delay the rolling modifiers until the end, but with enough levels/retired characters your only option is to deliberately sabotage your battle goals which is clearly against the spirit of the game.
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Jul 11, 2018 20:22
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Not being allowed to decline a perk sounds like a very weird rule, any harm in dropping that? I don't think leveling up should ever make you feel your character is worse.
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Jul 11, 2018 21:05
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Some rolling modifier feedback from our current L3/4 party. My lean Mindthief has +1 and Muddle; +1 was consistently useful, Muddle also happened a lot, but I think every single time the enemy was either killed, stunned, or disarmed before it had any effect. On the flip side, our Brute made a disadvantaged attack against a night demon, and drew both a rolling push and a crit, which killed it.
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Jul 11, 2018 21:09
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Take all rolling mods imo. It's not like losing is of significant consequence anyways. Sure, missing can suck, but I love the opportunity to draw an enormous fat stack of mods.
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Jul 12, 2018 14:13
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Rolling mods can make you miss with advantage, but they also let you crit with disadvantage. If you're not planning on being strengthened that often, you should definitely load up your deck with them, but if you're going for a lean deck and advantage-stacking, avoid them like the plague. I drew four different rolling mods on a hit in our last session, and it was loving blessed.
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Jul 12, 2018 14:25
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