|
sunken fleet posted:The mechanics of the loop (as have been explained to us the readers) make the second option more likely. Because what's happening isn't "time travel" but rather a constantly resetting "snap-shot" of reality that is stored in it's own super powerfully temporally accelerated pocket dimension that is somehow contained and powered by an imprisoned primordial. So in essence whoever started the time loop started it up at the start of the month and the events that we see playing out in the story aren't "real" but just the result of some sort of hyper-advanced spell that "snap-shots" the whole world and then predicts - for lack of a better word - the actions of all the people / things trapped inside. I don't wanna jump to this specific section, 'cause I'm going through the whole story again in order, but didn't the ghost serpent thing tell them that the loop was caused by a known spell or ritual that some group triggered every 400 years, whenever there was a planar alignment to help power it? That's one of the reasons I never thought Zach was a likely originator for the loop; my impression of him pre-loop is as a charismatic but destitute kid with very few political levels he can pull, on account of his douchebag guardian selling all of his stuff. I was picturing the loop as something a shadowy cabal would organize, and honestly I wouldn't have trouble believing that red robe was the original except for the fact that if he actually left the loop (which I still doubt), their interviews with the guardian implied that his exit was done via some kind of hack, which I can't see the original needing.
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2018 21:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 01:01 |
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:
The biggest problem with the idea of Zach not being the original is that he's still looping. Redrobe needed Zach to stay in the loop, otherwise Zach would have ended up like Veyers and the Cyorian web instead of just mindscrambled. Redrobe even had Zach at his mercy at the ball, when he interrogated him about other loopers. I have a hard time believing that he wouldn't have "soulkilled" him right there along with the Cyorian web, if he didn't need Zach to keep looping for some specific reason. And the most likely reason for that is that the loop itself is anchored to Zach.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2018 23:47
|
|
|
Oo Koo posted:The biggest problem with the idea of Zach not being the original is that he's still looping. Redrobe needed Zach to stay in the loop, otherwise Zach would have ended up like Veyers and the Cyorian web instead of just mindscrambled. Redrobe even had Zach at his mercy at the ball, when he interrogated him about other loopers. I have a hard time believing that he wouldn't have "soulkilled" him right there along with the Cyorian web, if he didn't need Zach to keep looping for some specific reason. And the most likely reason for that is that the loop itself is anchored to Zach. That all makes total sense, and I think it's the likeliest explanation... the only reason I struggle with it is because I find it really hard to imagine either a scenario where Zach was able to intentionally get involved in the loop, or be accidentally targeted by it. To be fair, we actually know a surprisingly small amount about Zach's pre-loop background, but the only way I can kinda-sorta get his being the original looper to make sense in my head is if I assume it was part of a set-up; maybe the reason red robe knew as much as he did was because he'd been briefed/involved before the loop started. I don't think that's likely, but the story really hasn't given us enough information to make any grounded, intelligent guesses about how Zach would've gotten involved in the first place. The author has been pretty good about setting up and foreshadowing stuff up to this point, which is why I'm really concerned that Zach will just pull a heel turn and go "Bwahaha, it was me all along". That's the only real reason I can think of for us to not have gotten any particularly deep character development from him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2018 23:54
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:That's not what's being compared though; it's a comparison between "people bringing up the topic of her sister, without knowing what the specifics of that situation are" and "visiting Chris without warning." Both of these things are things the people in question requested others not to do for reasons they don't feel comfortable elaborating about. We don't know Chris's specific reasons for being so upset about having someone show up without warning, but there's reason to assume they're less valid than Victoria's reasons for not wanting Amy to be mentioned. We talked about this when it originally came up. Some points you're missing out on. Victoria might have been using this as an excuse to visit, but she takes many steps to leave space for Chris, and she didn't lie about why she showed up. If they didn't come get him for the meeting, he'd be pissed as well (and was when he wasn't brought to the warden's tower meeting). So it is a situation where no matter what they do Chris is going to be mad, and when she does visit she takes a lot of steps to leave him space still. Tristin talks about it being impossible to win/handle correctly in the next chapter. The thing you're forgetting about the Amy information is that it is info Chris got from the group therapy sessions. It is a lot more than Amy being mentioned, Chris is essentially weaponizing information gained in confidence and he knows it. There is a comment made .. I can't remember where exactly.. about Ashley having an involvement with the Jewel of Boston. Considering we don't see her interacting with anyone else, it seems highly likely that it wasn't actually paranoia.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 00:28
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:Well... Yamada couldn't 'fix' things, but Kenzie has apparently been steadily improving. Some of that is definitely her learning how to better mask her feelings, but I don't think it's fair to disregard all her progress in that light. Her emotional issues are deep and are not going to go away magically as she ages, but her better learning what is and isn't appropriate is a huuuge deal given that, as you said, she's accidentally blown up previous healthy support systems via inappropriate behavior. I think it's kind of hard to say. While she has shown some control over her behavior, she's also shown behavior that is at least as bad as anything she did in the past (in the form of the extremely hosed up stuff with her bio-parents). She doesn't seem any more capable of "putting on the brakes," and has just learned to avoid situations that would require her to use the breaks to begin with instead. I'm not sure if avoiding getting too close to people in the first place is so much "getting better" as it is "harm reduction." ZypherIM posted:We talked about this when it originally came up. Some points you're missing out on. Victoria might have been using this as an excuse to visit, but she takes many steps to leave space for Chris, and she didn't lie about why she showed up. If they didn't come get him for the meeting, he'd be pissed as well (and was when he wasn't brought to the warden's tower meeting). So it is a situation where no matter what they do Chris is going to be mad, and when she does visit she takes a lot of steps to leave him space still. Tristin talks about it being impossible to win/handle correctly in the next chapter. Victoria is still definitely being dishonest in not just admitting "yeah I was kind of looking for an excuse to visit you," and I give Chris more leeway because he's a literal child and Victoria is not. I also think that Chris is obviously way more angry about being visited like this than he would have been if he were left out due to not being contacted; he's never shown this kind of anger before. Could Victoria have known about that? Of course not, but we also don't know Chris's situation and it's entirely possible he has some fairly legitimate reason to freak out so much at having his "expectations" violated through the unexpected visit. So Victoria isn't at fault for visiting (at least to the extent reflected by Chris' reaction), but we don't have enough information to say that Chris was really at fault for getting as angry as he did, either (and being a child inherently makes his crimes reflect less poorly on him than Victoria's crimes, even if Victoria's were lesser in and of themselves).
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 05:49
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:
The loop was triggered a month early and seemingly reduced its efficiency by a factor of ten or more. It's just as likely someone was monkeying around with the gate and it got accidentally triggered and choose Zach for some reason (bloodline connection? Is Zach a descendent of the Ikosian royalty?). Possibly the divine nature of the loop is also why Zach also has his bullshit mana reserves but no idea of why.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 06:52
|
|
|
SITB posted:The loop was triggered a month early and seemingly reduced its efficiency by a factor of ten or more. It's just as likely someone was monkeying around with the gate and it got accidentally triggered and choose Zach for some reason (bloodline connection? Is Zach a descendent of the Ikosian royalty?). Possibly the divine nature of the loop is also why Zach also has his bullshit mana reserves but no idea of why. Ohh right I'd forgotten that it was triggered early, that would explain a lot... I'd always assumed the mana reserves were just a result of his family doing genetic/magical enhancement. It's known to be pretty common in mage families, and since his family were famous for being battlemages and military officers, it would make sense that they'd jump at a chance to have a much larger reserve at the cost of fine control. Last thing on conspiracy, but one of the reasons I'm so stuck on Zach/clone-as-antagonist is because when Zorian shoots red robe in the sewers, his reaction is kind of juvenile; I remember him actually voicing surprise and basically going "Wtf man, what kind of mage carries a revolver," which is not the reaction you'd expect from a mature, battle-hardened bad guy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:Ohh right I'd forgotten that it was triggered early, that would explain a lot... I'd always assumed the mana reserves were just a result of his family doing genetic/magical enhancement. It's known to be pretty common in mage families, and since his family were famous for being battlemages and military officers, it would make sense that they'd jump at a chance to have a much larger reserve at the cost of fine control. Regarding this, I remember it was explicitly stated that Zach's control is still far too good for someone with his reserves, so it can't just be explained in terms of him doing something to expand his reserves (or having something done to him).
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Regarding this, I remember it was explicitly stated that Zach's control is still far too good for someone with his reserves, so it can't just be explained in terms of him doing something to expand his reserves (or having something done to him). Hmm yeah, and the story made a specific point of highlighting that, so there's a lower chance of the fine control being an artifact of a familial enhancement... I wonder if the mana reserves + control aren't simply an artifact of whatever's causing the time loop, kind of like how it contains imperial artifacts with enchantments that, as far as I know, only apply inside of the loop.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 17:26
|
|
|
I always thought, that Zach just had naturally high reserves or the ability to quickly increase his reserves. If the Loop is controlled by an automated system that has had no human supervision for centuries, it might have chosen him because of that. The loop being forgotten closes also the otherwise massive loophole, that there are no people near the loop-control who know about it. I find it more interesting, how the loop was pushed ahead in the regular schedule. I suppose it might have enough simulation capabilities to see the elemental being released at the end of its range. But it could also turn out that the assumption about the loop dropping the players at the start of the loop instead of at the end is wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 21:35
|
|
|
She's an advanced student, not an expert, but I remember Taivan (Spelling? Zorian's jerkass delver friend) mentioning that magnitude 20 reserves were at the higher end of human capacity, and she didn't believe Zorian when he said that an anonymous friend of his was around magnitude 60. My understanding of the loop's design is that it took a single snapshot of the... universe, I want to say? At the very least of the solar system, at the moment it was activated (which is theorized to be about six hours before Zorian wakes up), and all activity is a simulation based on that snapshot and the deviations they make from it. It seems like working backwards would be a lot harder. I also know that in the last iteration of the loop before he teamed up with Zach, when Zorian organized everyone and made a serious attempt to stop the invasion, it still failed badly enough that they were able to summon the primordial. One explanation I could see for the loop being started early and at the end of the cycle is if that's actually what happened, and using the dragon below's body to run the loop ASAP (using whatever student was closest) was Xvim or another clever mage's attempt to drain its mana and force it back into its prison before it flattened the continent.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 21:58
|
|
|
RE: Zach's mana reserves. The Lich (whose name I can't spell) mentioned that he was born as a 25~ magnitude but was divinely enhanced by the gods to be around 50. IIRC Zorian also talks about it being another piece of evidence for the theory that Zach was the original target, since the loop is caused by a divine artifact and what are the chances that Zach sudden expanded mana reserves aren't related? (Zach also mentions that he didn't have magnitude 50 before the start of the loop, and he found no mention of his family having a bloodline or anything else related to it).
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 23:22
|
|
|
I'm like 90% sure Zach has always had massive reserves. It's why he was such a poor student at the mage school before the time loop - his power reserves were too big and it crippled his ability to do delicate spellwork. It's only thanks to decades of practice - via the timeloop - that he's able to function as a mage at all. That's the big reason Zorian is so convinced that the loop is setup all around Zach and for Zach's benefit - because Zach happens to have such a unique "problem" that the time loop happens to be the perfect solution for. Zorian suspects it must be some sort of hidden bloodline magic thing from Zach's noble House but Zach claims that it's not. Zach claimed that he (the only surviving member and heir to the House) has never heard of such a bloodline and that there are no records of such a bloodline existing in his House's records or the records of enemy Houses but I don't think he ever says his mana reserves weren't huge from the start?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
So uhhh... I guess that chapter of Practical Guide happened. I guess it's time to start climbing a Tower.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 05:43
|
|
|
sunken fleet posted:I'm like 90% sure Zach has always had massive reserves. It's why he was such a poor student at the mage school before the time loop - his power reserves were too big and it crippled his ability to do delicate spellwork. It's only thanks to decades of practice - via the timeloop - that he's able to function as a mage at all. That's the big reason Zorian is so convinced that the loop is setup all around Zach and for Zach's benefit - because Zach happens to have such a unique "problem" that the time loop happens to be the perfect solution for. Zorian suspects it must be some sort of hidden bloodline magic thing from Zach's noble House but Zach claims that it's not. Zach claimed that he (the only surviving member and heir to the House) has never heard of such a bloodline and that there are no records of such a bloodline existing in his House's records or the records of enemy Houses but I don't think he ever says his mana reserves weren't huge from the start? He had around 25~ before the loop IIRC. Which is large, and possibly crippling to someone without a good work ethic, but 50~ is ridiculous and is the domain of dragons (and Quatach-Ichal who had his soul artificially and divinely enhanced). That's why I think it was part of the loop, since that sort of soul manipulation seems to be the sole province of the divine. EDIT: PracGuide Well, Malcia had been far too passive in this book so far. I guess finally Cat sees part of Malicia's schemes. SITB fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jul 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 06:21
|
|
|
SITB posted:He had around 25~ before the loop IIRC. Which is large, and possibly crippling to someone without a good work ethic, but 50~ is ridiculous and is the domain of dragons (and Quatach-Ichal who had his soul artificially and divinely enhanced). And is wearing a crown that I think doubles either his mana reserve or his magnitude (at least in the timelines where Zach doesn't steal it). Speaking of MoL, I noticed something really weird in my re-read: the first mention of Zach's memory issues is right after he recovers from the event that hooks Zorian into the loop; he mentions to Zorian that in addition to feeling awful he has holes in his memory, which he apparently didn't have (or didn't notice) before the lich tried to make a Z sandwich out of their souls. Zorian also mentions his memory loss to the matriarch much later, but here's the thing: I don't think anybody ever explicitly establishes that mind magic is to blame. The first time someone uses those explicit words it's the Matriarch while summarizing her agents' meeting with Zach. I think we're intended to assume that they all talked about it between chapters and decided that deliberate tinkering via mind magic was the likeliest explanation, which I'm fine with, but it also means that the actual textual evidence for it is way thinner than I remembered. As far as I can tell, nobody actually knows- it appears that the matriarch/Zorian theorized it was tampering via mind magic, Zach believed them, and due to his shields and mind magic phobia nobody friendly has ever actually looked at his mind to see what's up. PracGuide: I've never been clear; has there ever been a consensus on whether Malicia is actually crazy or super-duper sane and acting the part? I personally assumed she was actually slipping into nuttertown ever since that whole portal thing. Also, for a brief moment I forgot that Malicia was Black's friend/Cat's enemy the current ruler, and thought that was the name of dread empress whatever-her-name is (may she never return), and the implication was that she'd been cooling her heels in zombieland all along.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 06:40
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:And is wearing a crown that I think doubles either his mana reserve or his magnitude (at least in the timelines where Zach doesn't steal it). Speaking of MoL, I noticed something really weird in my re-read: the first mention of Zach's memory issues is right after he recovers from the event that hooks Zorian into the loop; he mentions to Zorian that in addition to feeling awful he has holes in his memory, which he apparently didn't have (or didn't notice) before the lich tried to make a Z sandwich out of their souls. MoL: The crown is Quatach-Ichal personal mana battery that is ten times his magnitude. It may as well make him indefatigable. PracGuide: Malicia was always sane, she was Black's reformist buddy. She just doesn't believe that the other side will ever negotiate with her unless forced to the table; because their adherence to the Church of Light and the Good side means that they are inherently 'irrational' and would discard alliances if an angel told them to do so. Her plans rely on making it untenable for the rulers to actually follow through and attack Praes. Either through the threat of WMD, or through a more pressing external enemy. Today's chapter may as well be called Reversal given how it flipped about the positions of all the players in the story. EDIT: PracGuide The entire crusade may as well be declared a failure now. Its stated purpose was to free Callow, but with how the religious schism* seems to shake out Procer and pals will always be seen as an occupying army. The Grand Alliance is actively aiding Black's goal of turning Callow into a Praesi ally. * And isn't that ironic that part if the reason the House of Light is so 'tamed' in Callow because Black broke the churches power by removing their tax-exempt status? That the reason why the Callowan church is concerned with earthly matters is because Black weeded out those that couldn't adept or play ball? SITB fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 15:43
|
|
|
PracGuide: So Pilgrim is theoretically freed of any restraints. That could be fun.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 23:20
|
|
|
mossyfisk posted:PracGuide: So Pilgrim is theoretically freed of any restraints. That could be fun. PracGuide: He was also declared as a villain in the guise of a hero, a tool for Procerian ambition. Any scheme to turn Callow good is severely impaired if not outright impossible. The whole 'invade in order tofree Callow from the villainous grasp of Praes' is kinda dead in the water now. I don't even know what it means to the heroes narrative to be declared graceless.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2018 12:30
|
|
|
Ward: Oh look, a nice but tragic group of teenage superheroes who are trying their hardest and just need some help and a hug or two. My inner pessimist immediately set about speculating what horrible, soul-crushing thing is going to happen to them, and while I don't for a minute think this is actually right, I'm kind of in love with the idea that those lovable dorks are secretly Tohu/Bohu worshipers who will be revealed to be the Fallen's fifth cult at a pivotal moment.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2018 23:41
|
|
|
Prac guide: That pronouncement has the Tyrant's hand all over it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 01:49
|
|
|
Eh. How is he supposed to have hooks into the highest levels of the good religious institutions?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 03:11
|
|
|
I don't think it was anyone specific myself. The whole point of the Hasenbach stuff was that one person doesn't control a Crusade, a Crusade is really more of a force of nature in the setting, though one that may be defeated. I feel like Good just got super salty about the situation in Callow and basically declared Catherine the Big Bad that has to be defeated which, honestly, doesn't help anyone politically. It doesn't even really help the Heroes even, because now they have to deal with all of Callow considering them to be Villains in disguise, etc. The Grey Pilgrim's own strategy for handling Catherine was basically shot to poo poo with this as well. Not that it helps Catherine at all really, I don't think, she'd trade the support of Callow's House of Light (for real this time) for not having armies being allowed to violate truces because truces no longer matter. I think a feathered fucker got real salty. Or maybe the Bard is doing something tricky. If he could pull it off, it is the sort of insanity I think the Tyrant would like, I guess?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 03:19
|
|
|
The Tyrant's a fiend who isn't satisfied unless he's causing maximum chaos. He's got his hands in pies and places that a villain by rights shouldn't be able to touch. His MO is that if he's going to hit something to cause chaos, he wants to hit as many targets as possible - so simply look at how many got hosed politically to get an understanding of who's likely to have started it. A bunch of heroes just got retroactively declared persona non grata. That hurts good in the long run. One of the longest standing heroes, so long standing that he's functionally a cornerstone in many stories - as well as a whole branch of the church of the light - just got declared heretics. Catherine, and everyone aligned to her, just got made public enemy number one to every hero on the planet. That fucks Malicia, Black and Catherine. The question is, who wins out of this? and the answer is the tyrant - he views the whole Callow situation and everyone in it with the utmost contempt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 09:42
|
|
|
The Tyrant is a kick-rear end dude and I won't tolerate anyone saying otherwise. He's like if you took someone from outside the story and inserted them into the story with the intent to just have as much fun as possible. I have trouble even thinking of him as evil, because he interacts with the world he lives in as if it were the same fiction we're reading.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 18:03
|
|
|
Two things I didn’t see in the recent MoL chat. What about the student (whose name I can’t recall) who punched Zach in the previous year, had his existence erased from Zach’s memories only, and appears to die from having no soul at the beginning of the restarts? Seems like he’s still leading contender for Red Robe. Also, I didn’t notice before, but I guess the actual gateway artifact was part of the Noveda’s treasure haul that Zach’s guardian sold/distributed/stole. More evidence that Zach was the original looper?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 22:31
|
|
|
navyjack posted:Two things I didn’t see in the recent MoL chat. Are you fully caught up? There was an ep where they found his frozen body in a lawyer's house; he never woke up one reset and the lawyer panicked and didn't know what else to do. So red robe's connected in some way but it ain't him. But they're sure he's gone through the gate ahead of them anyway so at this point it doesn't matter who red robe was, they need to get out before they run out of resets.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 22:52
|
|
|
Bhodi posted:Are you fully caught up? There was an ep where they found his frozen body in a lawyer's house; he never woke up one reset and the lawyer panicked and didn't know what else to do. So red robe's connected in some way but it ain't him. But they're sure he's gone through the gate ahead of them anyway so at this point it doesn't matter who red robe was, they need to get out before they run out of resets. They were speculating that is how someone going through the gate would present to somebody still in the uncollapsed loop, since it overwrites your real world soul with the looped version I’m kinda looking forward to Z and Z getting out of the loop and getting unleashed on the real world.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 23:27
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:The Tyrant is a kick-rear end dude and I won't tolerate anyone saying otherwise. He's like if you took someone from outside the story and inserted them into the story with the intent to just have as much fun as possible. I have trouble even thinking of him as evil, because he interacts with the world he lives in as if it were the same fiction we're reading. Oh he absolutely is. Very fond memories of his Betrayal of Black - "I'm betraying you now!"
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 23:36
|
|
|
navyjack posted:Also, I didn’t notice before, but I guess the actual gateway artifact was part of the Noveda’s treasure haul that Zach’s guardian sold/distributed/stole. More evidence that Zach was the original looper? Huh, was that ever definitively established? I just reread the bit where Tinami dishes on that whole thing, so presumably I haven't gotten to anywhere where they would've mentioned the gateway in reference to his stuff. Structurally, I think one of the reasons I have so much trouble believing that red robe left/is Zach is because structurally, that would imply that a good 50-75% of the story has taken place after he beat feet and there were technically no stakes, and while that doesn't make the story any less enjoyable, it's a bit of a strange decision to make as a writer. On that note though, I'm about 75% through my re-read and I'm actually pretty sure it wasn't Zach. Structurally his being the big bad makes way more sense, especially since we don't actually have any explicit evidence that he was mind magic-ed (as far as I can tell that's a reasonable but unsubstantiated theory the aranea matriarch came up with). However, I don't really see much else backing that up- I'm only partially remembering the big breakdown of that theory, but I remember one of the big pieces of suggestive evidence being how much detail the story goes into on how simulacrums and soul magic interact without having much of a payoff. The thing is, the loop explicitly works by moving their souls around, and in Zorian's goofy meeting with the priests where he goes "Hypothetically, what would a necromancer need a giant crystal with thousands of souls in it for" and they freak out, one of the priests explicitly states that simulacrums don't have souls. Assuming that's true, I have trouble seeing how one would manage to hack itself into the loop even in fleshZach's cooperation. Anywhoo, I don't have much (read: any) evidence for this, but one interesting idea that's occurred to me on rereading it is that Z&Z might try getting around the ethics of murdering themselves when they leave the loop by affixing their souls to physical objects and becoming lichs instead. I don't really think that's likely, since the ritual apparently takes time to perform, but it would be an interesting twist.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 00:36
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:Huh, was that ever definitively established? I just reread the bit where Tinami dishes on that whole thing, so presumably I haven't gotten to anywhere where they would've mentioned the gateway in reference to his stuff. I think it was the researchers poking at it when they are impersonating Feds either the first or second time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 00:42
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:Huh, was that ever definitively established? I just reread the bit where Tinami dishes on that whole thing, so presumably I haven't gotten to anywhere where they would've mentioned the gateway in reference to his stuff. I support this possibility because after they resolve the whole primordial business they can have lich tea parties with the dude who, technically, only tried to kill them once in the real world. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 01:29
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:I support this possibility because after they resolve the whole primordial business they can have lich tea parties with the dude who, technically, only tried to kill them once in the real world. Yeah, I am completely in support of this... I know he's technically a horribly evil jerkface who has led entire armies of undead monstrosities in an attempt to wipe out their kingdom, but he seems like a really reasonable and straightforward chap. Maybe as a price for his help they jailbreak him as well, so there are two lichdads running around? Also, did he even try to kill them once in the real world? I'm pretty sure the only times they've ever actually fought have either been a) when they were screwing with the invasion, or b) when they did the robbery thing and screwed him before he could screw them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 01:40
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:Yeah, I am completely in support of this... I know he's technically a horribly evil jerkface who has led entire armies of undead monstrosities in an attempt to wipe out their kingdom, but he seems like a really reasonable and straightforward chap. Maybe as a price for his help they jailbreak him as well, so there are two lichdads running around? No, he didn't, I'm just assuming they'll have to knock his block off in the final arc where they escape and blow up the whole diabolical plan. But if it gets resolved through the power of friendship, all the better.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 02:25
|
|
|
Yeah, and I'm still kinda unclear on how he's involved with the invasion. I always assumed that he was either being paid by the cult, or working alongside them in furtherance of some greater agenda, but I think I remember all of the senior cultists having keystones based on his skeleton and treating him with reverence, so I guess maybe he started/manipulated the cult for his own ends, and is just playing along? Either way, unless they can work out a really consistent way to kill him in the 18 months of simulation they still have left, I'd honestly steer clear once I hit the real world; someone who figures out enough about the time loop to darn-near kill you *in* the loop with a five-minute long conversation isn't someone you want knowing that you exist.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:18
|
|
|
Total speculation, but I honestly don’t think it’s going to be Zach and Zorian. I think that Zach is somehow going to sacrifice himself so that Zorian can go on. Zorian hasn’t experienced any real loss or stakes during the time loop. About the only thing that would hurt him would be losing Zach, and it would fit with there only being one exit from the loop (I know RR already went through).
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:26
|
|
|
navyjack posted:Total speculation, but I honestly don’t think it’s going to be Zach and Zorian. I think that Zach is somehow going to sacrifice himself so that Zorian can go on. Zorian hasn’t experienced any real loss or stakes during the time loop. About the only thing that would hurt him would be losing Zach, and it would fit with there only being one exit from the loop (I know RR already went through). That's totally something Zach would do, too. Zorian's not a people person, and one of the things I like about the Z&Z arc is how despite being kind of a dick, Zach is simultaneously one of the least-deserving targets for Zorian's annoyance and the most frequent recipient of it, but he's totally cool about it. That having been said, I do kind of want both of them to get out just to see how that dynamic works in the real world; something I like about the general setup is that fact that in spite of being kind of a good-natured doofus and never coming close to matching Zorian's discipline or single-minded dedication, Zach is just naturally a better mage in nearly every category. I think it would be neat for them to escape together just to see how Zorian handles what is effectively Damien 2.0, except this time with a friend who he knows from experience isn't trying to hurt his feelings or overshadow him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 08:56
|
|
|
Well that was a pretty cool conversation in Practical Guide to Evil. I guess even the Fairfax kings of old would choose Praes over Procer, man gently caress Procer is really in the Callowan DNA at this point.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 09:21
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:That's totally something Zach would do, too. Zorian's not a people person, and one of the things I like about the Z&Z arc is how despite being kind of a dick, Zach is simultaneously one of the least-deserving targets for Zorian's annoyance and the most frequent recipient of it, but he's totally cool about it. In general, the Zach/Zorian relationship is one of my favorite parts of MoL; they play off of each other really well, and the dynamic just has a unique sort of feel to it. Zach strikes me as a genuinely good guy, and I'll be really salty if he is randomly revealed to be evil or something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2018 01:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 01:01 |
|
|
Ytlaya posted:In general, the Zach/Zorian relationship is one of my favorite parts of MoL; they play off of each other really well, and the dynamic just has a unique sort of feel to it. Zach strikes me as a genuinely good guy, and I'll be really salty if he is randomly revealed to be evil or something. Eh. I think he’s okay but the time loop has obviously screwed with his perspective. He’s angry and drinks too much and he goes straight for the aggressive option nine times out of ten. His mental instability is one of the biggest reasons I can see one of his simulacrums having turned bad.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2018 13:52
|
|
