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Nuclear War posted:Except Rorken, right? 
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Aug 10, 2018 01:50
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Immanentized posted:Which one was Rorken, Vaults of Terra? Eisenhorn's boss. He's essentially a desk jockey and seems to have gone middle management vis-a-vis Eisenhorn who remained in the field. One of his lackeys of a similar (managerial) bent gets chopped up by Quixos when he's sent to help Eisenhorn in the final fight.
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Aug 10, 2018 02:08
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Nuclear War posted:Except Rorken, right? I guess Field Operatives are more at risk than a Lord at his desk Amberly Vail from the Ciaphas Cain novels is both in the stories and she's also the editor of them, so maybe her as well? Or are editors inherently corrupted?
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Aug 10, 2018 02:08
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Amberly is definitely a heretic also she's probably not very old by inquisitorial standards even by the time Cain dies and she edits the memoirs i imagine she's like 200 or whatever
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Aug 10, 2018 02:46
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Rorken lets Eisenhorn and Ravenor get away with an awful lot. He may not be directly using Chaos or Eldar, but he sure is lax about letting his underlings do so. Amberly speaks Tau and prefers to move the right people into the right places for the greater good instead of BLAMMING  everyone. If that isn't being "corrupted" by non-Inquistorial ideals, I don't know what is.  e: More seriously, Amberly is still pretty young and may not have reached The Line yet. And of course, we do only hear about her exploits from the books she's editing, and we know she goes out of her way to look good in them, as well as trash the reputations of Cain's other paramours.... jng2058 fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 05:09
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jng2058 posted:Rorken lets Eisenhorn and Ravenor get away with an awful lot. He may not be directly using Chaos or Eldar, but he sure is lax about letting his underlings do so. Amberly speaks Tau and prefers to move the right people into the right places for the greater good instead of BLAMMING Also, frankly, Amberly's Ordos Xenos. If any branch ain't going to mess with Chaos, it's Ordos Xenos (as opposed to Malleus Inquisitors, which should probably have a standing order to be shot in the head on their 30th anniversary with the Ordos...). Though she did broker a temporary ceasefire with the Tau, so mayhaps she's a bit more radical than we're admitting...
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Aug 10, 2018 06:57
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susan posted:Also, frankly, Amberly's Ordos Xenos. If any branch ain't going to mess with Chaos, it's Ordos Xenos (as opposed to Malleus Inquisitors, which should probably have a standing order to be shot in the head on their 30th anniversary with the Ordos...). Though she did broker a temporary ceasefire with the Tau, so mayhaps she's a bit more radical than we're admitting... Yeah but she also let them take wounded Tau back that were almost for sure Genestealers at one point with a smile. Added on pretty much every Imperial in that book wanted to get that ceasefire with the Tau. Cause Tyrinid's are a bigger issue.
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Aug 10, 2018 07:18
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Z the IVth posted:Eisenhorn's boss. He's essentially a desk jockey and seems to have gone middle management vis-a-vis Eisenhorn who remained in the field. I think Eisenhorn calls him old in the first book, and he's still running things in the Ravenor books so he's obviously at least managed to hide any taint for a long rear end time.
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Aug 10, 2018 11:23
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susan posted:Also, frankly, Amberly's Ordos Xenos. If any branch ain't going to mess with Chaos, it's Ordos Xenos (as opposed to Malleus Inquisitors, which should probably have a standing order to be shot in the head on their 30th anniversary with the Ordos...). Though she did broker a temporary ceasefire with the Tau, so mayhaps she's a bit more radical than we're admitting... See that's what happens to Xenos Inquisitors...except Eisenhorn himself, that is. Ravenor gets all into Eldar studies and finds himself working for/with the Eldar all the time. Amberly investigates the Tau, learns their language, and seeks relatively non-violent solutions. Gideon studies the Eldar and becomes more like the Eldar. Amberly studies the Tau and become more like the Tau. Gregor studies Chaos and....well, we all know how that worked out.
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Aug 10, 2018 18:55
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Amberley has also alway had the attitude that it's better to be sneaky, and if need be let smaller fish escape in order to catch the biggest threats by surprise, as opposed to announcing her arrival a year in advance by setting fire to everything that looks at her funny.
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Aug 10, 2018 19:48
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jng2058 posted:The only question is how much good can you accomplish before you fall off that cliff.
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Aug 10, 2018 20:35
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Groetgaffel posted:Amberley has also alway had the attitude that it's better to be sneaky, and if need be let smaller fish escape in order to catch the biggest threats by surprise, as opposed to announcing her arrival a year in advance by setting fire to everything that looks at her funny. So a Radical, then.
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Aug 10, 2018 21:27
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Technowolf posted:So a Radical, then. Oh yeah, she's a radical for sure. It just tends to work a bit better for the Ordo Xenos inquisitors to have radical leanings than it does for Hereticus or Malleus.
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Aug 10, 2018 21:34
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Groetgaffel posted:Oh yeah, she's a radical for sure. It's probably the way that talking to Tau or Eldar doesn't make you grow horns.
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Aug 10, 2018 21:39
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Considering that all of the Ordos Xeno inquisitors have been less "Burn on site" than Ordos Malleus, I have to wonder what they're actually taught. "When it comes to fighting Tyranids or Orks, kill the big ones first. If its Eldar, count the number of spikey bits on them. If it's more than four, kill on sight. If it's less than four, try talking to them, they may just be trying to stop you from making a huge mistake. And if it's the Tau, if you say what you're doing is for the Greater Good enough times, you can eventually make them happy to let you let them help you."
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Aug 10, 2018 22:51
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Brace for impact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDwxnzHvhdo
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Aug 11, 2018 01:15
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Groetgaffel posted:Oh yeah, she's a radical for sure. Are there any radical Hereticus inquisitors in canon?
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Aug 11, 2018 05:07
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A brief search has brought up Silas Hand, Ernst Stavros Killian, and Alders Terhan as radicals. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Silas_Hand http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ernst_Stavros_Killian http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Alders_Terhan
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Aug 11, 2018 05:50
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Titus Endor was Hereticus. I guess he does represent a third path for an Inquisitor...a gradual slide into mediocrity if you lack the courage to keep moving forward.
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Aug 11, 2018 06:03
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Random question: Are there any canon examples of a Space Marine, like, retiring? Leaving the Chapter and, like, farming?
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Aug 11, 2018 07:36
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susan posted:Random question: Are there any canon examples of a Space Marine, like, retiring? Leaving the Chapter and, like, farming? I don’t think Cincinnatus was a space marine, sorry.
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Aug 11, 2018 07:39
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susan posted:Random question: Are there any canon examples of a Space Marine, like, retiring? Leaving the Chapter and, like, farming? that is not a thing that happens, so far as I know very elderly or disabled Astartes who don't merit Dreadnought conversion sometimes go into a sort of semi-retirement where they spend more time puttering around base than fighting, but they're still part of their Chapter and are expected to contribute as specialists or training officers or somesuch. nearest you'd get to retiremement is the occasional non-chaotic renegade warband, or wandering marines whose Chapters have been so bady wrecked that they no longer have a command structure (like the few remaining Astral Knights). In neither case are they really retired from warfare though. There's maybe one borderline example in the form of Lucius Worna, a bounty hunter in the Ravenor books who some fans speculate is a rogue Astartes. (he is described as overwhelmingly huge and tough from the PoV of Nayl, who is himself extremely big and tough by unaugmented human standards). If their theorizing is true, he'd be the only Astartes I know of who has shown any interest in accumulating wealth or doing any other non-martial, non-Chaos thing. I don't buy it, personally - the Ravenor books are written by Abnett, who of all BL writers is the most consistent in depicting Astartes as unmistakably inhuman in both looks and psychology. Astartes in the Heresy era (when Imperials could still imagine a final victory) would speculate about this topic, but even then most of them didn't seem able to contemplate an existence without war, and didn't want to think about it. The Emperor being the Emperor, there was probably never any intention to allow the Astartes to retire . I expect the best they could hope for in the long run was to be obsoleted in a slightly more dignified way than the Thunder Warriors. Consider the hurdles you'd need to overcome to get an Astartes to even consider retiring: - Astartes are socially isolated from the time of their adoption (childhood, in most cases). After a century or so, they'd have no remaining human social circle and no frame of reference for interfacing with civilian life. - From childhood, they are brainwashed to believe that dying for the Imperial cause is the most worthy thing a person can do, and that being selected as a space marine initiate is the highest possible honor. To turn away from that, they'd have to overcome every social norm and belief they have. - Due to their heavy augmentation, a lot of the normal human drives do not exist for them. They're never going to fall in love with a mortal and settle down to raise a family, as they'vre asexual and any remaining romantic inclinations would be bound up in their martial brainwashing. They're immune or highly resistant to alcohol and drugs and can't really comprehend human entertainments, so Hedonism is of no interest unless they go full Slaanesh. If they're interested in craftsmanship or scholarship, they're probably more free to pursue these things in the Chapter than they would be in normal Imperial society, where knowledge is strictly controlled. Overcome those things, and the marine would still have to convince everyone to leave him alone. Issues with this: - His body contains gene-seed, which is considered a precious and sacred resource for the Chapter. This cannot be removed while he is alive. - He has taken a ton of sacred Oaths and Vows, which space marines tend to be Extremely Serious about. Attempted desertion, or even disloyal talk, is a great way to line up a pain-glove date with a Reclusiarch. - Even if the Chapter let him go, he'd probably have trouble from the Inquisition and/or the Ecclesiarchy, since Space Marines are privy to a lot of knowledge that is forbidden to the general citizenry. Ways you could potentially have a kinda-sorta retired space marine: - A senior Salamander specialist who chills out on Nocturne most of the time. - Member of the Imperial Fists or one of their successors who like to leave small single-squad fortifications everywhere - get parked on a sufficiently quiet and unimportant planet. - Techmarine with an open-ended posting to a Forge World. - Marine on permanent attachment to some ambassadorial post, like the Wolfblade. - Marine attached to an Inquisitorial retinue, where the Inquisitor turns out to be very hands-off. - Renegade who successfully deserts on an isolated planet and doesn't become some sort of pirate or terrorist like every other known Renegade. - Veteran with a long-term assignment as a recruit wrangler. tl;dr once the tyrannical emperor is overthrown and a new regime is installed according to the science of marxism-leninism, we will secure space marine pensions PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Aug 11, 2018 |
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Aug 11, 2018 08:42
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Thinking about Space Marines as medieval knights is a common, understandable, but misguided frame of reference. They’re warrior monks with the emphasis on “warrior” but varying somewhat depending on chapter preference. They’d probably go illuminate bolter drill manuals or inlay filigree on chainswords if they “retired” but in 99% of cases they’d just die, and in most of the remaining 1% they’d get entombed in a dreadnaught. Retirement is for actual human, marines aren’t that.
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Aug 11, 2018 10:04
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There is that old grey knight from ADB's grey knight book, he seemed to be retired and just tending the graveyard although does get called back into service
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Aug 11, 2018 10:53
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Karneios posted:There is that old grey knight from ADB's grey knight book, he seemed to be retired and just tending the graveyard although does get called back into service Even an old mutilated Grey Knight is a ridiculously powerful psyker.
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Aug 11, 2018 11:25
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PupsOfWar posted:
Not entirely true. They start with one progenoid gland and then have a 2nd one that grows over a decade or two before reaching maturity. The 2nd one can be removed while they are still alive. I forget which book, but there is a group of space marines going on a suicide mission where gene seeds won't be recoverable and the chapter has their 2nd progenoids removed before they leave so they aren't lost. Of course this begs the question why it isn't standard practice to remove them upon maturity so they aren't at risk of losing both if the marine gets vaporized or whatever.
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Aug 11, 2018 17:14
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D-Pad posted:Not entirely true. They start with one progenoid gland and then have a 2nd one that grows over a decade or two before reaching maturity. The 2nd one can be removed while they are still alive. I forget which book, but there is a group of space marines going on a suicide mission where gene seeds won't be recoverable and the chapter has their 2nd progenoids removed before they leave so they aren't lost. Can't remember which book it is, but doesn't it "improve" with experience? Like how they can take memories from eating brains, doesn't it become "better seed" if it's saturated with grizzled champion funk? Essentially the idea of the warrior living on isn't just a figurative thing, but a literal passing on of experience? Which is how the BA end up with Horus flashbacks and go batshit?
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Aug 11, 2018 18:30
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Are/could AdMech aligned Rogue Traders be "a thing" (as the kids say these days)? Like: does the warrant has to be issued by the Adeptus Terra or am I remembering that there something in one of the Priests of Mars books that went against that? Background to the question: I'm making a sort of vertically-integrated world/setting for the RPG(s)/Necromunda/KT/40k/My own fluff writing and I've come up with what's basically an about-to-be-heating-up "cold civil war" on an old old old Segmentum Solar planet (like, first wave DAoT settlement-old) that boils down to being a war of succession between Terra-aligned factions and Mars-aligned factions (they're doing a Holy Roman Empire elective monarch/governor thing) . On the Terra side I have the usual stuff: (Inquisition, Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard) but the Mars side feels a little sparse: I have Skitarii, a Knight Household, and the Sons of Medusa (the planet's AdMechs may be sooper-seekrit Moire Schismatics, not sure yet) so I'm wondering if I can have a Mars-aligned Rogue Trader throw down for the AdMechs (since Rogue Traders are going to get Kill Team rules next/soon)? Also, the underhive of the planet is also about to have a Genestealer Cult uprising and deep beneath the hive spires, far below even the lowest of the plunging sump-depths, the Hivecult has discovered an archaeotech relic of almost unfathomable power and antiquity: a stargate to Terra but they lack the activation information they suspect is hidden deep in the datastacks of the Oarilian Mechanicus. (Just to add another couple of crinkles to the whatsit.) Custodes and/or Sisters of Silence might come through the Stargate if it activates (Custodes almost certainly, Sisters depending on if the Sisters get 40k rules for the floating pillbug-vagina dentata-dune sandworm looking-thing). This might also explain how Cypher escaped from his cell on Terra? E: Goddamn that's a lot of words. Are any of them any good? Too snowflake? 
Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Aug 11, 2018 |
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Aug 11, 2018 18:39
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The warrant of trade has to come from Terra but that doesn't mean they couldn't align themselves with your mechanicum faction for whatever reason. The closest equivalent to a rogue trader in the mechanicum forces is probably an explorator fleet. Maybe you could have your mechanicum faction severely disadvantaged then an explorator fleet they sent out millennia ago, and thought lost, shows back up and upends things with some kind of cool archeo or xenos tech they found.
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Aug 11, 2018 18:53
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I could see an old marine deciding to as a sheriff or as a preacher on a backwater planet. Do the Emperor's work, protecting his flock and all of that, telling of the dangers of heresy and corruption.
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Aug 11, 2018 20:46
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It's also been a thing in the fluff a few times for a single Astartes or a squad to be stationed on a planet for a century or two to whip the local PDF into shape if the planet is considered likely to be in danger.
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Aug 11, 2018 21:12
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Cythereal posted:It's also been a thing in the fluff a few times for a single Astartes or a squad to be stationed on a planet for a century or two to whip the local PDF into shape if the planet is considered likely to be in danger. The White Consuls do this I think but it's usually more at the beginning of a career? Regarding the White Consuls: Lexicanum White Consuls Background posted:The White Consuls maintain sovereignty over several nearby systems, and the chapter officers are expected to oversee the administration of each world before advancing to a higher rank. As such these officers are often found in command of local troops. [...] Every battle brother has to serve as a Coadjutor in the years after rising from the rank of neophyte. A selection of veterans are also chosen to act as Proconsuls; becoming a Proconsul is a necessary prerequisite to becoming a sergeant or captain. Proconsuls have led local troops of Sabatine or their vassal worlds into battle, granting them some knowledge on the Imperial Guard.
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Aug 11, 2018 22:16
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Schadenboner posted:The White Consuls do this I think but it's usually more at the beginning of a career? IIRC it's also cropped up with the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, and Salamanders.
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Aug 11, 2018 23:07
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Cythereal posted:IIRC it's also cropped up with the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, and Salamanders. Yeah. Rather explicitly for the Ultras, during the godawful ultramarine story climax, one of the Ultramarian farm worlds is run by a semiretired captain, but it ties more into Guilliman and his ideals of service and governance once wars are done.
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Aug 12, 2018 00:19
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D-Pad posted:The warrant of trade has to come from Terra but that doesn't mean they couldn't align themselves with your mechanicum faction for whatever reason. D-Pad posted:Of course this begs the question why it isn't standard practice to remove them upon maturity so they aren't at risk of losing both if the marine gets vaporized or whatever.
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Aug 12, 2018 04:00
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SardonicTyrant posted:Does It? Because in the rpg it's mentioned that most Rogue Traders don't show around their Warrant of Trade, so it's not uncommon for someone in flashy clothes to bullshit being a Rogue Trader. You could easily have a Mechanicus character pretend to be a Rogue Trader. A real warrant of trade does yes, but like you said you can fake it.
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Aug 12, 2018 17:54
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I believe each warrant is signed with a drop of the Emperor's blood and so they're pretty well guarded relics. Any real rogue trader has one but it's the not the kind of thing you carry around. I can quite believe there are a lot more people with fake warrants going not to catch the eye of the Inquisition than actual Rogue Traders.
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Aug 12, 2018 23:32
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I don't think they all are signed with the emperor's blood, just some of them, the first warrants the emperor signed himself during the Great Crusade. Like, in the Ladycop books where that's a thing, somebody says "It's a Rogue Trader warrant" and she's like, that's a valuable thing. but then the person says "Signed with a drop of the Emperor's blood!" and she's like holy poo poo
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Aug 12, 2018 23:41
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Yeah they are no longer signed with emps blood. Now that he is on the throne the high lords of Terra are the ones that can grant warrants. I believe in the Rogue Trader books it is mentioned that their warrant is back on Terra in the family vault.
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Aug 13, 2018 00:15
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D-Pad posted:Yeah they are no longer signed with emps blood. Now that he is on the throne the high lords of Terra are the ones that can grant warrants. I believe in the Rogue Trader books it is mentioned that their warrant is back on Terra in the family vault. There's actually a shitton of ways to get a Warrant. The High Lords are certainly one major party that can grant Warrants of basically any type, but Planetary Governors, high ranking Mechanicus officiants, elevated Ecclesiastical figures, Warmasters, Astartes Chapter Masters, etc have all granted Warrants of Trade. Now, not all Warrants are created equal, and many signed by these less prestigious parties have some strict limitations on them or some short timelines/non-continuing clauses baked in. But for a lot of purposes, a Warrant is a Warrant. susan fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 00:19
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