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spacetoaster posted:Is there anyone doing that? No idea.
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Sep 3, 2018 23:59
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spacetoaster posted:cool To clarify, kids should not be closely approximating actual submissions. Competition should be positional, maybe you let them start to begin attacking and stop it before they actually isolate a limb when they get older.
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Sep 4, 2018 00:00
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Mechafunkzilla posted:To clarify, kids should not be closely approximating actual submissions. Competition should be positional, maybe you let them start to begin attacking and stop it before they actually isolate a limb when they get older. What are you thinking is kid, and older? Age range, that is.
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Sep 4, 2018 00:23
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The way we slammed each other around in wrestling when I was a kid is probably why I don’t see or think or walk so great these days
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Sep 4, 2018 02:12
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omg chael crash posted:The way we slammed each other around in wrestling when I was a kid is probably why I don’t see or think or walk so great these days It's something I try and keep an eye on for my kids. In boxing, I only let them drill with pads/bag. I always kinda assumed bjj wasn't too terrible on their bodies/brains.
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Sep 4, 2018 02:19
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spacetoaster posted:What are you thinking is kid, and older? Age range, that is. Even 16-17 feels young to really be doing subs in competition. Teenagers have poor judgement and impulse control.
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Sep 4, 2018 02:56
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Even 16-17 feels young to really be doing subs in competition. Teenagers have poor judgement and impulse control. Hence the rank requirement in Judo. When we're thinking about promoting a kid to green, one of the things we ask is "Do we think this kid has the skills and maturity for that poo poo?"
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Sep 4, 2018 03:37
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I once say Nicky Ryan kill a man
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Sep 4, 2018 03:41
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Even 16-17 feels young to really be doing subs in competition. Teenagers have poor judgement and impulse control. I think this goes much too far. Kids at this age are doing sports like wrestling, american football, ice hockey and more. Go ahead and restrict submissions (heel hooks maybe not, but blood chokes would be fine) but don't prevent them doing any subs at all. I mean, you can officially compete as a purple belt at age 16.
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Sep 4, 2018 05:12
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Pretty sure you can't be a purple belt at 16.
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Sep 4, 2018 05:23
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JaySB posted:Pretty sure you can't be a purple belt at 16. Why not? There are teens at our gym that have been doing bjj since they were 4. They're pretty experienced by 16.
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Sep 4, 2018 05:28
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spacetoaster posted:Why not? The way the kids belt system and IBJJF works. You can get your blue belt at 16.
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Sep 4, 2018 05:31
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JaySB posted:The way the kids belt system and IBJJF works. You can get your blue belt at 16. For my edification: Is the IBJJF what everyone uses as the gold standard for how things are done?
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Sep 4, 2018 05:33
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Well its one of the most referred to rule systems around the world for tournaments and the like so...
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Sep 4, 2018 05:39
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It's completely unnecessary for kids to start BJJ super young. (This actually applies to most sports other than a few) In fact, John suggests starting with gymnastics as a base. This provides a ton of strength, flexibility, and body and spatial awareness. My kids have started with gymnastics and swimming as athletic bases for strength and cardio. With respect to competition, in my opinion, rules should be position and control focused with no real sub finishes until at least 12 or so and then subs with serious caution until 16.
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Sep 4, 2018 05:47
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I was thinking of giving my son a break after this next ibjjf tournament, but I may just have him only attend the regular class twice a week. I mentioned him taking a break and it really upset him because it's where he meets his friends after school every day.
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Sep 4, 2018 05:58
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spacetoaster posted:I was thinking of giving my son a break after this next ibjjf tournament, but I may just have him only attend the regular class twice a week. I mentioned him taking a break and it really upset him because it's where he meets his friends after school every day.
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Sep 4, 2018 06:07
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I should say that I was referring to subs in competition as something I think should be restricted for minors. I've trained with a few high school wrestlers at my sambo club and they could do normal sparring, which was fine. I know that if I had a teenage child competing in a combat sport, I wouldn't want their well-being to be determined by a combination of their teenage judgement and their teenage opponent's restraint -- I would want the ref to be stopping things well before that.Count Roland posted:I think this goes much too far. Kids at this age are doing sports like wrestling, american football, ice hockey and more. Go ahead and restrict submissions (heel hooks maybe not, but blood chokes would be fine) but don't prevent them doing any subs at all. Well, kids should absolutely not be competing in American football, ever, period. And the way middle and high school aged kids are expected to abuse their bodies for the sake or wrestling practice and competition is really hosed. However, wrestling matches are won by pin, not by going to the limit of destroying someone's joints and no further while you're hopped up on adrenaline. spacetoaster posted:I was thinking of giving my son a break after this next ibjjf tournament, but I may just have him only attend the regular class twice a week. I mentioned him taking a break and it really upset him because it's where he meets his friends after school every day. Let your kid keep having fun with his friends, dude. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Sep 4, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2018 06:36
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Yuns posted:It's completely unnecessary for kids to start BJJ super young. (This actually applies to most sports other than a few) In fact, John suggests starting with gymnastics as a base. This provides a ton of strength, flexibility, and body and spatial awareness. My kids have started with gymnastics and swimming as athletic bases for strength and cardio. With respect to competition, in my opinion, rules should be position and control focused with no real sub finishes until at least 12 or so and then subs with serious caution until 16. Gymnastics are cool but that's another one that just shreds kids' bodies when they get serious about it. My sister was a fairly high-level gymnast and had back issues and multiple arthroscopic knee surgeries by the time she was 17, and the majority of the girls she trained with were in similar shape.
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Sep 4, 2018 06:46
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Didn’t John give Nicky his purple at, like, 15?
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Sep 4, 2018 13:33
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Extreme edge case obviously
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Sep 4, 2018 13:33
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omg chael crash posted:Didn’t John give Nicky his purple at, like, 15? Nicky iirc, trains multiple times a day with the most stacked gym you could possibly be in right now iirc. So this would be the most extreme edge case in the history of edge cases.
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Sep 4, 2018 14:49
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Kids should be doing the sports that give them the highest chance of college scholarships with the lowest level of a broken body, which leaves us with fencing, gymnastics, crew, and women's golf. Let them do bjj after college.
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Sep 4, 2018 15:10
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omg chael crash posted:Didn’t John give Nicky his purple at, like, 15?
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Sep 4, 2018 15:19
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I hope it didn’t sound like I was criticizing him or John — just thought it was interesting. Kid is real good
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Sep 4, 2018 16:04
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Yuns posted:Nicky met the IBJJF requirements because he was close to his 16th birthday and had been training for more than 2 years already. IBJJF age is not legal age. It is current year - birth year. So if your birthday is 12/31/2000 your actual age is 17 but your IBJJF age is 2018-2000=18. Minimum age for blue and purple is 16 and purple requires 2 years of training minimum. So you can theoretically start training at 14 in the kids belts and go right to purple.at 16 if you are very good. I didn't know that. That's pretty neat.
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Sep 4, 2018 16:21
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When I started training, one of my instructors was an 18-year-old brown belt who had been training since he was 5 (relevant to what Yuns suggested, he also did gymnastics as a kid, so he loves to clown on people with ridiculous acrobatic stuff). The other brown belts occasionally wax nostalgic about the good old days when he was small enough that they could dominate him. To the people opposed to adolescents doing submissions in competition--do you have specific incidents in mind that inform that opinion? Anecdotally, I haven't seen or heard of any of the kids in my extended BJJ social network having injured anything more than their feelings at a competiton, but I know of more than a few adult white belts that have.
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Sep 4, 2018 16:41
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Nestharken posted:To the people opposed to adolescents doing submissions in competition--do you have specific incidents in mind that inform that opinion? Anecdotally, I haven't seen or heard of any of the kids in my extended BJJ social network having injured anything more than their feelings at a competiton, but I know of more than a few adult white belts that have. Atlanta Naga 2016. The first injury I ever saw in competition personally was a pair of kids, between ages 10 and 15 I dunno for certain. Kid went for a spinning arm bar and got a pretty gross sounding pop out of it. I don't remember if it was because the kid applying it just spazzed and went for the pop, or if the other kid tried to escape and the other kid just shrugged and bridged until he heard a pop. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Sep 4, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2018 16:50
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Nestharken posted:
Mine have been doing it for years and have never been injured. However, I'm more than willing to listen to people who do bjj for more than a hobby (because that's all it is to me). And as inexperienced as I am, I have been heavily involved in my kids training/tournaments and I honestly can't think of any injuries besides bloody noses, bumped knees, and the occasional mat burn. Also skin infections. Some kid came in with one and people thought it was a bug bite. Now several kids have it (gross).
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Sep 4, 2018 16:51
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Lots of kids hurt themselves in competition if ref's don't stop them from applying subs. From what I've personally seen it was worse with kids than adults.
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Sep 4, 2018 16:59
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Well, kids should absolutely not be competing in American football, ever, period. Really, like never? What sports should they be playing, girls soccer? My son lost a whitebelt match @ 14 years old because his opponent sort of started an arm-bar, but did not have it at all. It was pretty disappointing (he was pissed, the rules were not clear to him and he had been working armbar escapes quite a bit before the match) the match was stopped, but I understand wanting to protect children and I get the optics of the sport that it is not desirable to have kids with broken arms associated with BJJ. Not a big deal. However, same son in the same tournament absolutely blasted a double and smashed another kid into the mats and this is perfectly ok? IDK, it's pretty inconsistent. 14 - 15 year old athletes are not at all the same as 10 year old kids. They should be able to work subs in a competition within reason.
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Sep 4, 2018 17:39
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spandexcajun posted:Really, like never? What sports should they be playing, girls soccer? Soccer's cool, sure. Really though, American football is uniquely designed to cause as much brain damage as possible. Let kids do literally anything else this side of boxing. spandexcajun posted:My son lost a whitebelt match @ 14 years old because his opponent sort of started an arm-bar, but did not have it at all. It was pretty disappointing (he was pissed, the rules were not clear to him and he had been working armbar escapes quite a bit before the match) the match was stopped, but I understand wanting to protect children and I get the optics of the sport that it is not desirable to have kids with broken arms associated with BJJ. Not a big deal. A double leg shot executed to completion results in a takedown and a dominant position, not a broken arm. You can drill good breakfalling into someone before they compete and it becomes muscle memory -- a kid getting a torn rotator cuff because he's trying to ride out a deep kimura until the round ends is something else. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Sep 4, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2018 17:51
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spandexcajun posted:Really, like never? What sports should they be playing, girls soccer? Lol come on dude spandexcajun posted:My son lost a whitebelt match @ 14 years old because his opponent sort of started an arm-bar, but did not have it at all. It was pretty disappointing (he was pissed, the rules were not clear to him and he had been working armbar escapes quite a bit before the match) the match was stopped, but I understand wanting to protect children and I get the optics of the sport that it is not desirable to have kids with broken arms associated with BJJ. Not a big deal. A bad arm bar can be potentially crippling. A hard takedown just hurts. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Sep 4, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2018 17:58
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spandexcajun posted:Really, like never? What sports should they be playing, girls soccer? I'd like to give my kids a safe sport so that they avoid concussions early in life. I don't think anyone here would argue with that but hey.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:03
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Let kids do literally anything else this side of boxing. quote:“A 1996 National Safety Council accident report ranked amateur boxing 23rd on its list of injury-producing sports and rated it the safest of all contact sports…safer than football, wrestling, soccer, gymnastics and in-line skating.” There's also a hopkins study that puts boxing well below sports that people consider "safe" for kids.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:03
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The more we learn about TBI and CTE the less likely I would be to let my kid play football. Pup Warner and Youth Football coaches/refs aren't exactly qualified to spot concussion symptoms. Anyways, Danaher is coming out with a front headlock system DVD, kinda excited to see what's in store there.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:04
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spacetoaster posted:There's also a hopkins study that puts boxing well below sports that people consider "safe" for kids. I mean I imagine it's because their tiny little bodies cannot really do enough to actually cause brain damage
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Sep 4, 2018 18:04
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spacetoaster posted:There's also a hopkins study that puts boxing well below sports that people consider "safe" for kids. I'd assume the general risk for injury in boxing is extremely low until you factor in the accumulated damage from repeated punches to the head. 1996 we didn't know poo poo about brain injury. That being said, boxing minus sparring is probably really low risk of any type of injury.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:06
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JaySB posted:I'd assume the general risk for injury in boxing is extremely low until you factor in the accumulated damage from repeated punches to the head. 1996 we didn't know poo poo about brain injury. That being said, boxing minus sparring is probably really low risk of any type of injury. Kids aren't getting hit in the head. Just like you guys were telling me that kids shouldn't be doing submissions, etc, until they're much older that's how youth boxing works. Cardio, bag work, pad work, foot work, and drills.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:08
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I mean I dont want my kids to turn into pussies so I let them wail on each others heads with PVC pipe until they forget their birthdays but you guys go ahead and put em in dresses or whatever.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:10
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