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Argue posted:Mother of Learning looks really close to ending now (although honestly it's seemed that way for like a year now I feel bad for Zorian-prime, but in a screwed-up way this is the best possible outcome for time-loop Zorian: he's out, he has all the knowledge, skills, and trained mana reserves from his time in the loop, but he gets to keep his old life; if they'd managed their original plan to just hop between dimensions, he would've basically had to assume a new identity and never hang out with his family or friends again. That's an especially raw deal for whats-her-face his little sister, who'd be stuck with grumpy, semi-apathetic Zorian as her last hope to escape the crappy family stuff.
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Oct 22, 2018 06:55
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Haha, I hope that (MoL) Zorian doesn't forget anything on his bigass checklist of horrible things to prevent (like Tavian getting killed by mind spiders or Alanic and his buddy getting assassinated).
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Oct 22, 2018 11:27
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Prac Guide: That'll show people who thought there was a long leash and endless tolerance.
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Oct 22, 2018 11:59
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(MoL) I dunno how I feel about Zorian snuffing himself out like that. It hasn't been explicitly stated in the text but he probably has the skills to maintain a soul without a body in one way or another right? I mean, the original soul(s) dying off in one way or another was the outcome I expected. I never thought that the time loop people would physically escape from the loop and become doppelgangers of themselves in the real world since that just seems like a lame cop-out of the established moral dilemma. It's just that having Zorian make a conscious choice to just straight murder himself adds a degree of ruthlessness to his character that I don't really think has been established properly. He had always been the bleeding heart of the team before hadn't he?
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Oct 22, 2018 12:31
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His moralities are a little more complex than that, it is worth noting that very few mages use simulacrums to the extent Zorian does and the equanimity with which those simulacrums take their deaths Zorian kills other Zorians on a regular basis, and they don't mind.
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Oct 22, 2018 13:04
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sunken fleet posted:(MoL) I dunno how I feel about Zorian snuffing himself out like that. It hasn't been explicitly stated in the text but he probably has the skills to maintain a soul without a body in one way or another right? I mean, the original soul(s) dying off in one way or another was the outcome I expected. I never thought that the time loop people would physically escape from the loop and become doppelgangers of themselves in the real world since that just seems like a lame cop-out of the established moral dilemma. It's just that having Zorian make a conscious choice to just straight murder himself adds a degree of ruthlessness to his character that I don't really think has been established properly. He had always been the bleeding heart of the team before hadn't he? Not our Zorian. He ain't got time for that poo poo. BLAM!
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Oct 22, 2018 13:18
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mossyfisk posted:His moralities are a little more complex than that, it is worth noting that very few mages use simulacrums to the extent Zorian does and the equanimity with which those simulacrums take their deaths That... is actually really reasonable. The simulacrums are what made me feel pretty confident that he didn't lack the ability to handle things one way or the other - but thinking about it, they also represent why he would make the choice he did so easily. Saying he's been directly involved in the deaths of any number of Zorian's already isn't an exaggeration in the slightest.
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Oct 22, 2018 13:30
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I also doubt that original Zorian was still really alive at that point. Even timeloop Zorian was losing his mind after I dunno let's say 10 minutes without a body, I imagine that somebody with no soul magic at all would lose their mind and mana control way faster. I don't know that timeloop Zorian could create a body for the soul quick enough either, I imagine that if a simulacrum would do he'd have used that? I think they talked about what happens to a soul without a body in one of the earlier chapters but I don't remember.
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Oct 22, 2018 13:41
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Cicero posted:Haha, I hope that (MoL) Zorian doesn't forget anything on his bigass checklist of horrible things to prevent (like Tavian getting killed by mind spiders or Alanic and his buddy getting assassinated). If we're really lucky, they managed to survive and escape to the real world offscreen. I don't think I'd like it if he was the only survivor of the loops left, especially since I think he could do with a support group once it's all over. sunken fleet posted:That... is actually really reasonable. The simulacrums are what made me feel pretty confident that he didn't lack the ability to handle things one way or the other - but thinking about it, they also represent why he would make the choice he did so easily. Saying he's been directly involved in the deaths of any number of Zorian's already isn't an exaggeration in the slightest. Simulacrums have no soul though, or rather, share their souls with the original. In that case, it's demonstrably the same person. I was kinda hoping that it would turn out the loopers shared souls with the originals in the same manner but I guess that isn't the case! If they did, or if it was a science-based story where souls weren't an observable phenomenon, I could easily accept the justification that I wasn't killing anyone, but just updating them with additional memories.
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Oct 22, 2018 13:44
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MOLi also think watching his friends and literal family sacrifice themselves to make sure Zorian gets out really makes the agonizing about taking over his old body seem idk, weird? Damien, the brother he always thought didn't care about him, slit his wrists to let Zorian through. Seeing that happening would make anyone be more ruthless, especially if they would have died otherwise Xun fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Oct 22, 2018 |
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Oct 22, 2018 15:59
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That Ward interlude was something, alright. I feel like I need to read it five more times to even get a handle on all the little bits it throws out there and their various implications.
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Oct 22, 2018 16:39
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Argue posted:If we're really lucky, they managed to survive and escape to the real world offscreen. I don't think I'd like it if he was the only survivor of the loops left, especially since I think he could do with a support group once it's all over. I dunno. Zach should be fine, since he can just wait for the reset (he's got like 12 left, I think?) and then take the correct way out. He already unbarred the gate, so he doesn't even need to regather the key, just get into the time-magic facillity without Zorian's mind-magic, which shouldn't be impossible. As for everyone else? It would be nice, but a bunch of them already died in view, and their temporary markers were about to expire, so they're definitely out. Taiven, Kael, Kyron, Ilsa, Daimen all definitely bit it. Xvim was too busy holding the bridge open to have much of a chance of going through. Alanic maybe? He didn't die onscreen, and he's maybe the only other person aside from Zorian who could attempt that soul exploit even if he did... I hope Xorian has some backup journals stored in his brain, because otherwise we'll never see what Kael's alchemical research came to...
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Oct 22, 2018 17:46
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It would be hilarious if everyone who actually made it out was all the unnamed randos that the group decided to bring into the loop.
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Oct 22, 2018 18:06
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The Shortest Path posted:That Ward interlude was something, alright. I feel like I need to read it five more times to even get a handle on all the little bits it throws out there and their various implications. Very much looking forward to We've Got Ward podcast to explain what the hell was going on.
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Oct 22, 2018 18:10
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Hell, same.
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Oct 22, 2018 18:58
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The impression I get is that (Ward) Valkyrie is bringing some of her "shades" to life through somehow combining them with Rinke's homunculi. She and the Wardens have apparently solved most of the major random issues. A doggo got powers. A ridiculous Tinker 10+ dude* (likely directed by his shard) built some planet destroying thing, possibly as some misfiring directive from the Entities. Not sure what's going on with Simurgh. Jessica is alive. It's not clear to me what she's so scared about regarding being in the Megalopolis. It is possible that it somehow connects to the thing Jessica was worried about with Team Breakthrough's group. Also, the part where Crystal was like "Crystal is my actual name" and Valkyrie was like "Ah, I see. Yes. That makes sense" was cute. * Someone pointed out in the comments that that guy basically fit a description wildbow had posted on reddit a while back of what a hypothetical "Tinker 15" might be like Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Oct 22, 2018 |
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Oct 22, 2018 19:51
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(MOL) One interesting potential that comes with Zorian escaping the loop like he did is that it's entirely possible that no one else knows that he escaped. The plan was originally to physically escape and from Zach's perspective Zorian was killed short of the exit and it was a complete failure. Zach definitely doesn't have the soul perception to notice what happened without focusing, and if anyone else did they were far too busy to share information before they died or got reset. The primordial knows, and the guardian might know insofar as a machine knows anything, but I doubt either will be able to share that information.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:03
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Ytlaya posted:The impression I get is that (Ward) Valkyrie is bringing some of her "shades" to life through somehow combining them with Rinke's homunculi. She and the Wardens have apparently solved most of the major random issues. A doggo got powers. A ridiculous Tinker 10+ dude* (likely directed by his shard) built some planet destroying thing, possibly as some misfiring directive from the Entities. Not sure what's going on with Simurgh. Jessica is alive. My take is that she doesn’t know how to relate to others and has some pretty serious social anxiety. A big point of the interlude is about how these over-the-top threats (mega-tinker, army of parahumans who can create more, plus the just-mentioned stuff like the ghost army and Simurgh) don’t phase her, but normal human interactions sort of do, so it makes sense that the thing that terrifies her is living as a normal person, because she has no idea how. Look how resistant she is to taking downtime, being a badass problem solver is her comfort zone. Random Asshole fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 22, 2018 23:14
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The Wandering Inn is getting a video game https://www.partlyatomic.com/games/twig/ it seems like its gonna be a shop management/recettear style thing. looks loving terrible right now but the concept is pretty neat! also, twig, lol A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 00:57
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Random rear end in a top hat posted:My take is that she doesn’t know how to relate to others and has some pretty serious social anxiety. A big point of the interlude is about how these over-the-top threats (mega-tinker, army of parahumans who can create more, plus the just-mentioned stuff like the ghost army and Simurgh) don’t phase her, but normal human interactions sort of do, so it makes sense that the thing that terrifies her is living as a normal person, because she has no idea how. Look how resistant she is to taking downtime, being a badass problem solver is her comfort zone. I'm curious if Aisha knows about Brian, because I feel like that's something that might not go down well for her. Like, if she accepted the resurrected Brian as her brother, I don't think she'd love the idea of him working for Valkyrie? And if she didn't, then that brings up it's own complicated host of emotions. And with Tattletale's information network, I'd be surprised if Tattletale didn't know that Grue was in Valkyrie's group, because it's not like Valkyrie is... particularly subtle? And then for Brian himself, I wonder if there were issues with the fact that Valkyrie and Rinke probably worked closely with Riley to work everything else, considering what Riley did to Brian. Honestly I think the resurrected capes are in kind of a similar situation as Ashley, just with a different mechanism for them being revived/brought into existence. I wouldn't be surprised if they had pretty similar identity issues, just without the wrinkle where Ashley (and Damsel) were just two of several clones so there's like, the feeling of them all being or not being 'authentic'.
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Oct 23, 2018 04:49
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A big flaming stink posted:The Wandering Inn is getting a video game
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Oct 23, 2018 05:22
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It would actually make a fantastic game, that does not look promising.
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Oct 23, 2018 11:39
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TWI patreon chapter spoilers: There better be a reasonable explanation for what happens at the end of this chapter, because that sort of authorial fiat, where things suddenly go wrong just when the situation is looking up, is my absolute least favorite writing decision. For me, forcing a bad ending is much more annoying to read than forcing a good one (I realize that this isn't a universal stance but it is 100% true for myself). It's why I was so pissed when Brunkr died earlier in the story, because it felt like an arbitrarily forced bad ending to a storyline that was getting more positive.
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Oct 23, 2018 16:46
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Silynt posted:TWI patreon chapter spoilers: Eh the exact manner in which peace talks get sabotaged is a bit silly but suing for peace always seemed way too fragile to actually work. In fact i'm kind of annoyed that laken is 'blameless' for this part of the breakdown. dude is written as hapless do-gooder way too much for me.
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Oct 24, 2018 03:37
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I often feel like the basic quality of the writing in TWI just doesn't measure up to PracGuide, or Worth the Candle, or even Mother of Learning. But it definitely has a strength in its sheer variety of characters and personalities. Ksmvr's “I resent your abrupt departure from the conversation!” got a good chuckle out of me.
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Oct 24, 2018 19:29
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TWI current arc baseless speculation I bet the battle between Rags and Laken is resolved by the return of Ryoka from her 50+ chapter hiatus. As far as I can remember she is the only character to have met both of them and as such is uniquely situated to broker peace between them.
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Oct 25, 2018 04:21
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Silynt posted:TWI current arc baseless speculation God I hope not I am kinda happy to have Ryoka gone, she was one of my least favorite characters and I didn't really like the direction her story was going before she left
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Oct 25, 2018 09:01
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No it’s going to end with Laken and Rags finding out their peace overtures where sabotaged by a third party and thus uniting against a common foe.
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Oct 25, 2018 09:09
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i honestly don't think it's going to end in a manner in which both PoV characters get a 'win' of some sort. It's not really possible to stop the fighting before it inflicts major damage on one or both of the armies, and it really doesn't fit the narrative of war in this story. War isn't a thing that has a tidy solution, even if it started as a mistake both sides end up with great cause for vengeance. Plus I don't know why Rags would trust Laken even remotely enough to accept a "whoops my bad" and call off the fight. Like, maybe if Erin somehow showed up she would be willing to stop fighting, but i'm pretty sure everyone else in Rags's mind is "loving humans" A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Oct 25, 2018 |
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Oct 25, 2018 09:57
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My theory is Laken is going to admit defeat, retreat, and let Rags go. What she does when this happens who knows, they just got screwed pretty hard so the Goblins are pissed. Rags really doesn't want to fight though, is there anything Laken could offer her tribe that would let peace happen? Laken was starting to realize at the end of that chapter that he made a mistake with this group of goblins, and then someone sabotaged him on top of that forcing the war. Some third party REALLY wants him to be fighting Rags, I assume to have Riverfarm get crushed or at least weakened. Can always assume Magnolia is behind it.
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Oct 25, 2018 19:24
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Masego interludes are such a delight.
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Oct 26, 2018 06:31
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Does Worth the Candle hold up as it goes? The first few chapters seem like it could be interesting (I generally hate litRPG/isekai stuff, but this looks fine), but I've gotten burned too many times by stories that start somewhere interesting and eventually turn into trainwrecks.
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Oct 26, 2018 09:09
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Worth the Candle is one of the best written web serials, and its tone is very very different from typical LitRPG's, as you may have already picked up on.
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Oct 26, 2018 09:24
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While it is fairly well-written, mind it is ratfic, in a big way, and the ridiculous hyperoptimised tacticool munchkinry the characters apply to every situation does begin to drag after a point. It's a much better story whenever some big emotional upset comes along to knock them out of that mindset.
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Oct 26, 2018 09:46
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Is the story itself going anywhere? One of the big things that's turned me off of a lot of otherwise-serviceable serials is when it becomes painful obvious that the author either doesn't know where the overarching narrative is going, or struggles to maintain a coherent narrative structure despite having a planned outcome, so you end up with hundreds of thousands of words where the protagonists just kinda wander around doing stuff that doesn't actually do anything for their character arcs or the overarching plot, and which could've been left on the editing floor without harming the story.
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Oct 26, 2018 10:29
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Masego is I also like the fact that Warlock is almost willing to argue for showing Cat leniency purely on the positive influence she had on his son.
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Oct 26, 2018 11:08
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Omi no Kami posted:Is the story itself going anywhere? One of the big things that's turned me off of a lot of otherwise-serviceable serials is when it becomes painful obvious that the author either doesn't know where the overarching narrative is going, or struggles to maintain a coherent narrative structure despite having a planned outcome, so you end up with hundreds of thousands of words where the protagonists just kinda wander around doing stuff that doesn't actually do anything for their character arcs or the overarching plot, and which could've been left on the editing floor without harming the story. Plot-wise, the characters have a clear and explicit goal they're working towards, but no one knows how to get there or even where to start looking, so it's hard to say whether all the titting about is secretly plot critical or actually just titting about. There's a fairly aggressive tempo to the character arcs, at least? I guess I'd peg its narrative velocity as being somewhere close to MoL's? It's no Unsong. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Oct 26, 2018 |
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Oct 26, 2018 11:20
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I agree with comparing its plot pacing to Mother of Learning. It's got a similar vibe of a big mystery that unravels only very slowly, but I think it still feels like the author knows where they're going with the story.
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Oct 26, 2018 12:19
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Autonomous Monster posted:Plot-wise, the characters have a clear and explicit goal they're working towards, but no one knows how to get there or even where to start looking, so it's hard to say whether all the titting about is secretly plot critical or actually just titting about. There's a fairly aggressive tempo to the character arcs, at least? Hmkay, thanks! In spite of the occasional writing/language issues MoL has always been my gold standard for rational fiction done right, so that's promising. (I recently finished slogging through what's been written of TGAB, which is what has me wary; I was totally onboard to read a fun dungeon punk western, and by the time I realized it was a post-apocalyptic sci-fi anime thing that was obviously never going to go anywhere, I was already interested enough in a few of the threads to find everything about its overall trajectory frustrating.)
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Oct 26, 2018 12:22
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The biggest difference to me is that WtC is much more emo/introspective than MoL. There's a lot of stuff on internal/group dynamics, whereas MoL has a lot less drama and a lot more flinging badass magic at people and monsters. In that way, MoL is closer to the typical LitRPG in feel than WtC. Also WtC has tighter writing in general, but with MoL being written by a non-native speaker it's not a very fair comparison.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:23
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