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Krankenstyle posted:Yes, you can enjoy a story even if you know the ending, but it is a different quality of enjoyment than if you don't. The former can be experienced many times, but the latter can only be experienced once (barring brain damage, hypnosis, dementia etc). It's pretty crappy to take it away from someone. This is heightened when you're reading a genre such as mystery where knowing the ending twists/reveals is a large part of what drives the momentum forward. It's just such a rude thing to do, like you know the only reason the guy giving spoilers was doing it to get a rise out of his target. Krankenstyle posted:Savitsky completely in the right, there.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:53
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Krankenstyle posted:Yes, you can enjoy a story even if you know the ending, but it is a different quality of enjoyment than if you don't. The former can be experienced many times, but the latter can only be experienced once (barring brain damage, hypnosis, dementia etc). It's pretty crappy to take it away from someone. I'm this way personally. I don't care if a piece of fiction gets spoiled, really, and I'm late to the party on everything so I rarely get to go into anything blind, but if somebody is going out of their way to spoil the endings to things just to be a dick, I'll probably stab them, yeah.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:54
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#freesavitsky
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Oct 30, 2018 21:25
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bunch of rubes caring about plot content like it was the 19th century in here
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Oct 30, 2018 23:47
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If you spoiler a murder mystery book for me I’m going to get very cross indeed and hold it against you for the rest of my life. My dad is a complete dickhead for it and once spoiled the entire campion series for me by refusing to turn off an audio book versions of one of the later books in his car, and is a absolute wanker on goodreads with his reviews. If he dies after my mother I’m genuinely putting “here lies [name] he liked to spoil books for people, and was never once on time” on his gravestone.
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Oct 30, 2018 23:56
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Jin Yong died today. 
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Oct 31, 2018 00:24
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Clipperton posted:Jin Yong died today. He made it to age 94, that's really impressive. May he rest in peace.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:04
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Vote for next month's Book of the Month! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3872997
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Nov 1, 2018 16:10
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When I was a little boy if I was really overwhelmed with curiosity about the ending of a book, I'd allow myself to read the last page and only the last page. If I could glean some spoilers from that, good for me. If not, tough poo poo. It's a good system!
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Nov 1, 2018 20:53
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:When I was a little boy if I was really overwhelmed with curiosity about the ending of a book, I'd allow myself to read the last page and only the last page. If I could glean some spoilers from that, good for me. If not, tough poo poo. It's a good system! I still do that sometimes with some books - not very often, but for example when I was reading a thriller I wanted to know if the heroine survived, so I checked, and she does, along with the other prominent lady character. I still had no idea how or if they pulled the heist off, but I could rest a little easier knowing that it wasn't the kind of novel that would kill off women for the sake of it.
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Nov 1, 2018 21:24
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So an author works hard to build suspense and intrugue for the reader to complete a story, succeeds at that difdicult task, and you take that away by reading the ending. I don't think spoilers outright ruin the experience, but I can't help but think that that cheapens the experience for yourself.
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Nov 1, 2018 21:29
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Franchescanado posted:So an author works hard to build suspense and intrugue for the reader to complete a story, succeeds at that difdicult task, and you take that away by reading the ending. It depends on the book and how much you respect it, I think. In this thriller's case, I was still in suspense re: the main character and how the whole thing unfolded. My whole opinion on spoilers is that they're a personal choice, and if you want to do it, sure, that's up to you. I prefer minimal spoilers except in some cases - and I'd honestly liken the choice to my preference in genres, it's about what kind of cake I want to eat, and how I want to eat it.
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Nov 1, 2018 21:41
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StrixNebulosa posted:It depends on the book and how much you respect it, I think. In this thriller's case, I was still in suspense re: the main character and how the whole thing unfolded. Are there any movies that you stop halfway through, watch the last minute before the credits roll, and then go back to where you were?
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Nov 1, 2018 21:49
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Franchescanado posted:Are there any movies that you stop halfway through, watch the last minute before the credits roll, and then go back to where you were? No, because that's a different medium. There are movies where I look up spoilers on wikipedia for mid-movie. Carefully, though, so I only get what I want. Let me be clear: I use the last page method for books where no one's documented them.
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Nov 1, 2018 21:55
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StrixNebulosa posted:No, because that's a different medium. There are movies where I look up spoilers on wikipedia for mid-movie. Carefully, though, so I only get what I want. Why read the book at all, then? Just read the wikipedia article.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:00
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Franchescanado posted:Why read the book at all, then? Just read the wikipedia article. That's disingenuous and you know it.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:01
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StrixNebulosa posted:That's disingenuous and you know it. I know. You have a self-admittedly weird habit. I'm going to razz you for it. You aren't going to change your habit, and I'm not going to grind my teeth in frustration. No one's worse for wear.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:06
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I could read this book in two hours, because that’s my reading speed, or I could have someone else read it to me over 8 hours and savour it, and yet somehow some people believe that it renders me a lesser reader or something? Edit: someone told me that I hadn’t completed my goodreads yearly challenge properly (100 books so far)
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Nov 1, 2018 22:07
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Franchescanado posted:I know. You have a self-admittedly weird habit. I'm going to razz you for it. You aren't going to change your habit, and I'm not going to grind my teeth in frustration. No one's worse for wear. Okay, fair enough. Hard to read tone online. learnincurve posted:I could read this book in two hours, because that’s my reading speed, or I could have someone else read it to me over 8 hours and savour it, and yet somehow some people believe that it renders me a lesser reader or something? You do you, glad to hear you're reading a ton of books.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:19
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None of the books I've really enjoyed would have been changed by knowing the ending. In fact, knowing the ending from reading the last few pages wouldn't have changed much because I don't know what lead to that ending. I'd still have to piece together the meaning as I get closer and closer to it.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:38
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I can’t think of a single book of fiction I’ve ever read where it wouldn’t have spoiled the ending. I don’t read stuff like horror, sci-fi or much fantasy though and I could see the appeal of wanting to know who wasn’t dead before investing in a character.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:01
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learnincurve posted:I can’t think of a single book of fiction I’ve ever read where it wouldn’t have spoiled the ending. I don’t read stuff like horror, sci-fi or much fantasy though and I could see the appeal of wanting to know who wasn’t dead before investing in a character. This is why I do it, honestly. I emotionally invested myself in characters left and right, then I ran into a few authors (Diane Duane stands out among them) who liked to just... kill off people. Either at random or for the plot or whatever, and like. I'm reading books for entertainment. I don't expect 100% upbeat novels, where everyone makes it, but I do protect myself by being more careful about how I get invested in.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:10
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Reading only the very last page yields, like I said, mixed results. It's different than reading lots of pages or the last chapter or something. It doesn't ruin every mystery!
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Nov 1, 2018 23:10
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Hahahahhahaha wtf is wrong with all of your brains
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Nov 1, 2018 23:16
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CestMoi posted:Hahahahhahaha wtf is wrong with all of your brains Yeah, gently caress you too.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:21
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learnincurve posted:I could see the appeal of wanting to know who wasn’t dead before investing in a character. I can't. That's legitimately a ridiculous thing to say.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:21
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Franchescanado posted:I can't. That's legitimately a ridiculous thing to say. Agreed. Isn't your reaction when a character you've invested in dies part of the whole point?
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Nov 1, 2018 23:26
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Franchescanado posted:I can't. That's legitimately a ridiculous thing to say. How so? Call me over emotional if you want, but getting invested in a character and then reading them getting killed off is profoundly unpleasant. Sometimes the death is cathartic, but it varies heavily by the book and author.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:26
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I think I got scarred by greys anatomy on that one.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:26
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StrixNebulosa posted:How so? Call me over emotional if you want, but getting invested in a character and then reading them getting killed off is profoundly unpleasant. Sometimes the death is cathartic, but it varies heavily by the book and author. Imagine reading To Kill A Mockingbird and turning off all emotional reaction to the parts of the story involving Tom because you read ahead and saw that he dies. If you can't see how that's bizarre in any capacity, then you are weird and this isn't a discussion worth wasting my time over. I don't care if you read ahead--it's weird but whatever--but what you're proposing sounds like a sociopathic way of reading.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:30
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learnincurve posted:I can’t think of a single book of fiction I’ve ever read where it wouldn’t have spoiled the ending. I don’t read stuff like horror, sci-fi or much fantasy though and I could see the appeal of wanting to know who wasn’t dead before investing in a character. It's exactly in fantasy, sci-fi, horror that I could see reading the end being deleterious. They're hinging on the outcome revealing something. In genres were the events are what's driving the story knowing the events conclusion is going to spoil it. If you're reading something where a character changes based on their situation then its each situation that's worth reading about, not finding out at the end that hey-ho, they actually went back to work without happy, after everything else that happened to them. It wouldn't make a difference if they went back to work reluctantly, sadly, or they didn't go back to work. Without the intervening material the end means nothing. Whereas knowing he defeated the shadow monster ruins the suspense of the will they/won't they/what's gonna bet set up for the sequel.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:31
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I think it’s more likely that people are talking about reading books with an ending that goes “Grawg the destroyer turned to Handsome the Swordsman and goes “ah but it was a fine battle, what shall we do next old friend?” Then they know that at least both Grawg and Handsome make it out of the original band of five Fearsome Warriors.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:34
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CestMoi posted:Hahahahhahaha wtf is wrong with all of your brains
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Nov 1, 2018 23:35
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Are we seriously having the "using cheats in a singleplayer game means you're enjoying it wrong and should be shunned" debate except with books?
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Nov 1, 2018 23:35
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me spoiling the end of ferdydurke: what the heck? it's a gas? is this guy serious?
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Nov 1, 2018 23:40
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ToxicFrog posted:Are we seriously having the "using cheats in a singleplayer game means you're enjoying it wrong and should be shunned" debate except with books? No, I'm just pointing out that reading a wikipedia article to find out if a character dies so you can turn off your emotions and alter the way you engage the book is an odd, possibly flawed, way to read a book. But yer quip was cool, too, I guess.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:40
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A human heart posted:me spoiling the end of ferdydurke: what the heck? it's a gas? is this guy serious? I had to stop reading after this cos i was too emotionally invested in not being an rear end
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Nov 1, 2018 23:44
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Anna Karenina kills herself
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Nov 1, 2018 23:49
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Franchescanado posted:Imagine reading To Kill A Mockingbird and turning off all emotional reaction to the parts of the story involving Tom because you read ahead and saw that he dies. Franchescanado posted:No, I'm just pointing out that reading a wikipedia article to find out if a character dies so you can turn off your emotions and alter the way you engage the book is an odd, possibly flawed, way to read a book. I'm... getting the sense that we have different levels of empathy, or something. I'm not turning off my emotions so much as bracing them, and/or managing them. It's to protect myself from emotional pain I may not want to experience. Like. I recently read King's Dragon by Kate Elliott, and it has a sequence in it where a women is sold into slavery and tortured and raped and emotionally abused. I knew this sequence was going to be unpleasant, I knew it would drastically ruin my experience with the rest of the book if she spent the rest of the book enslaved to this monster - so I skipped ahead a couple hundred pages and made sure that she did get free. Thus reassured that she would be freed eventually, I tentatively read on - and this sequence still destroyed me. Knowing there was an end in sight didn't keep me from feeling awful for her, and so angry at what happened. It's not about turning off your emotions, it's about... being careful with them. You read Diane Duane, you know one of the prominent minor characters (not the hero + heroine) is going to die, usually in a heroic sacrifice kind of way - so you brace yourself for that, so it's not so much of a violent emotional blow when they do snuff it. It's a choice I make because I don't want to spend a day being miserable. It's the kind of choice I make when I decide that no, I'm not going to watch something like Schindler's List for the evening, as that's not what I want to cope with. (Except for when I do, of course.) So I'm reading this thriller for fun, because I want to see how they pull of this heist, and I don't trust this author not to kill off a character I like, so I check. With their survival insured, I can settle in and really enjoy it, focusing on the good bits instead of winding myself up with tension. Yeah, it changes how I enjoy the novel, but that's my choice and in my opinion, it heightened the experience. Now there are books where I don't need spoilers to assume that everyone dies. If I'm reading horror, or a Warhammer 40k novel, just assume that everyone dies and enjoy the creeping dread/grim darkness of war or whatever. Anyways. I'm about to hit post and get mocked relentlessly for having emotions and daring to be sad over a character I like being killed or suffering, so preemptively: screw you and the horses you came in on.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:53
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It depends on what I'm reading and how much I trust the author. I'm not going to skip ahead to the end in a murder mystery. But there have been a lot of cheap pulp novels I've read where things looked like they were heading towards a nasty hamhanded character death where I've looked ahead or looked up the plot online just to make sure the author wasn't going to do the equivalent of shooting the pet dog just to make the audience wince at a dead dog. "Oh goddammit, is [author] going to do that?!" type thing. See, e.g., https://www.doesthedogdie.com for a comparable example with films, since that's come up edit: it's especially a problem with authors like George R.R. Martin who will deliberately make a character likeable just so you wince more when bad things happen to them. Certain kinds of authors really hamhandedly, sloppily, crudely manipulate their readers' emotions and it annoys me so I avoid it. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 23:56
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