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Intel&Sebastian posted:hot take: I'd rather newcomers watch Rebuild 1 than the tv episodes it covers. Operation Yashima is a straight-up masterpiece in Rebuild 1, IMO. Everything from when Ramiel first appears to Shinji and Rei in the aftermath could probably work even completely out of context if you showed it to a complete neophyte and went "so this is basically what Eva is."
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Nov 27, 2018 19:33
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Rebuild is absolutely a terrible way to be introduced to Eva, the structure and narrative beats hugely suffer from being compressed down to feature length.
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Nov 27, 2018 19:47
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Yeah, the first way I ever saw Eva was Rebuild 1/2 and I didn't really like it or care and didn't watch the show until like another year later.
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Nov 27, 2018 19:50
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Yeah the first rebuild is nice for an intro but even then what the rebuilds are trying to accomplish and what the TV show are trying to accomplish are a bit different.
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Nov 27, 2018 19:51
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I don't think usingn 1.11 as substitute for the first six episodes of the show if you're going into the rest of the TV show anyways works for people paying close attention. Like the Adam/Lilith stuff in the show is confusing enough as it is, and 1.11 handling that differently only piles onto the confusion.
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Nov 27, 2018 19:54
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I didn't say I would use Rebuild 1 as a substitute for those episodes of the show, I said that if a complete neophyte asked me 'hey what does this Eva thing do that's so important', I would consider showing them the Ramiel bits of it. Very different claim. 
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Nov 27, 2018 20:01
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If they really like it then afterwards I'd definitely say watch the TV series (not skipping anything R1 covers), EOE, and then the other rebuilds but like....the poo poo is 20 years old and the translation is often bad. If they aren't already watching stuff like that anyway it's just too far out of it's original context for me to say watch that instead of the cool fixed up HD version.
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Nov 27, 2018 20:02
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Not to open up a giant can of worms here, but is it the general consensus that Eva fans consider all the "Seed of Life" alien info as canon or are they split on that? It's pretty much the stuff laid out in this paraphrasing article: https://medium.com/@scottgladstein/evangelion-explained-e9d1c2c3e04 I personally like including it in my understanding of the mythos, but I can imagine that some fans like the supernatural mystery and only count show & movie information as canon.
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Nov 27, 2018 20:02
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HoneyBoy posted:That trailer really loving sucked I know! where's the piano playing, or the cello playing? Or the Unit 01 horse racing!? In Training posted:The madturbation scene is incredible, one of the strongest opening moments in any film I've seen Or if you're TheFlamingShark "....is that yogurt?"
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Nov 27, 2018 20:13
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JazzFlight posted:Not to open up a giant can of worms here, but is it the general consensus that Eva fans consider all the "Seed of Life" alien info as canon or are they split on that? Canon is a myth.
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Nov 27, 2018 20:32
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i was sort of vaguely aware of all of this except this part:quote:Evas are all clones of Adam except Unit 01, Shinji’s Eva. It is actually a clone of Lilith.
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Nov 27, 2018 20:33
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Not true!
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Nov 27, 2018 20:35
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Please don’t watch rebuild first.
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Nov 27, 2018 20:53
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please do, it's in HD and has good music
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Nov 27, 2018 20:59
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Please don’t watch rebuild first.  Outside of that, yeah watch the original series first always because when you choose to watch Rebuild the plot beats that changed from the TV show have a lot bigger impact on you
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Nov 27, 2018 21:01
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JazzFlight posted:Not to open up a giant can of worms here, but is it the general consensus that Eva fans consider all the "Seed of Life" alien info as canon or are they split on that? Some of its true from a show standpoint,Some of the info comes from a ps2/psp game, Neon Genesis Evangelion 2. I honestly really don’t know if the fandom holds it as canon or not, Anno apparently was interviewed for the Classified Information files within the game, and credited for the event scenarios, so make of it what you will, I just don’t see it brought up a lot elsewhere  In the series, Lilith and Adam are referred to as just seeds of life (I swear that there’s a mention of fruits of life and knowledge, but can’t remember where it comes up, or if it’s dub only). A & L being referred to as seeds of life or seeds of knowledge comes from NGE2. In the psp version, called Another Cases, a third, unnamed seed speaks to Kaworu(it’s left unclear if there are more types, or if it’s just Knowledge or Life, a total of 7 seeds were sent out). For S2 engines, they’re formally called Fruits of Life in the game; a fruit of knowledge can be inferred by a speech Gendo gives saying science is the power of man in one of the episodes. The “aliens on the brink of disaster” also comes from NGE2, called the First Ancestral Race. Particle Wave Matter also isn’t limited to just Adam and the Angels: Rei, the Evas and Lilith are made of it, too! That’s just a nitpick tho... Also agreeing with Tuxedo Catfish, canon is bs PenguinKnight fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 21:04
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Raxivace posted:Btw I finished watching His & Her Circumstances about a week ago and Anno's run on that show (About the first 18 episodes) is honestly almost as good as NGE. It's worth checking out for that at least. That wasn't "budget problems" so much as "oh god the production of this show is collapsing and we need something to air" Much like how a lot of the back half of Eva is trying to do something creative with issues like the show being written week to week amid delays
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Nov 27, 2018 21:12
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RealFoxy posted:There's still that theory that Rebuild is a "Sequel" to the original series but since 4.0 will never be released and the series will never end we'll never know It's clearly a sequel after what happens in 3.0
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Nov 27, 2018 21:19
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Nothing exists outside of the TV series and EoE. Except the Asuka/Mari fan content, that can stay.
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Nov 27, 2018 21:23
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Don't get me wrong, the PS2 game exists, it's an artifact that clearly relates to Evangelion somehow. I'm just saying that "what parts of this story are true" isn't the pertinent question when it comes to a work of fiction.
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Nov 27, 2018 21:25
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esselfortium posted:Nothing exists outside of the TV series and EoE. I have a secret love for Asuka/Rei based purely on red and blue aesthetics.
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Nov 27, 2018 21:27
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Don't get me wrong, the PS2 game exists, it's an artifact that clearly relates to Evangelion somehow. I'm just saying that "what parts of this story are true" isn't the pertinent question when it comes to a work of fiction. Exactly 
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Nov 27, 2018 21:31
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I like the seed of life stuff but ultimately it really doesn't matter what the deal with the Angels is beyond what you see on the screen
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Nov 27, 2018 21:32
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Roth posted:I have a secret love for Asuka/Rei based purely on red and blue aesthetics. Asuka/Rei is an all time great Ship-That-Has-Basically-Nothing-To-Do-With-The-Text-It's-From, IMO
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Nov 27, 2018 21:35
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In densha otoko one of the recurring otaku commenters is a dude with a fuckton of anime figurines and in one scene he is chatting on the PC while making rei and asuka kiss. That was my contribution to the conversation thank you for reading.
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Nov 27, 2018 21:42
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Blockhouse posted:I like the seed of life stuff but ultimately it really doesn't matter what the deal with the Angels is beyond what you see on the screen But it's a good explanation for all the weirdy stuff.
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Nov 27, 2018 21:47
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In Training posted:It's clearly a sequel after what happens in 3.0 Sooner than that. There's a red blood splash on the moon that fits with EoE, caskets already open, giant footprints around Tokyo 3 already... Somebody used instrumentality as a reset button, and it probably wasn't Shinji; I actually lean toward Kaworu based on his line at the end of 1.11 And within all that, Mari is an invader. Someone who probably survived the prior loop which explains how she pulls off the poo poo she does. Recent (well, past year or so) theory work though:  I just hope 4.44 explains who that is on the right. I was mostly on-board with the theory about Mari being a clone of Kyoko, but I didn't really buy that that was Kyoko on the right until I saw this manga panel.  That hairstyle actually matches, so it's a way better fit now.
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Nov 27, 2018 21:49
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Yeeesss.... Life is breathed into the Eva thread again. All is right with the world
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Nov 27, 2018 22:00
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I don't find any of the "sequel theory" evidence very convincing, especially when the movies themselves already use Rebuild's Second Impact as explanation for some of the things fans like to point as evidence (Like the red ocean). I don't see why stuff like the streak on the moon isn't the same. I do think Rebuild is very much a thematic sequel to NGE, and I do think much of the "sequel theory" evidence works stronger as allusions used for a thematic purpose, but that's very different than being a plot sequel. Of course some plot revelation in the last film could change all of this, and in which case I'll eat my words. Blockhouse posted:That wasn't "budget problems" so much as "oh god the production of this show is collapsing and we need something to air" Raxivace fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 22:06
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I don't mean sequel as in like, this is a direct continuation, I mean more in the sense that you should probably watch NGE+EoE before watching the rebuilds bc they are in very heavy dialogue with the original series
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Nov 27, 2018 22:08
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Evangelion is so good. I love it. I watched this poo poo when I was 14 years old on youtube in three part segments back in like 2007. I don't know how many times I've watched it again since then. I bought a boxed set of the DVDs for 60 bucks at Best Buy one time. It's one of my treasures.
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Nov 27, 2018 22:08
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In Training posted:I don't mean sequel as in like, this is a direct continuation, I mean more in the sense that you should probably watch NGE+EoE before watching the rebuilds bc they are in very heavy dialogue with the original series It's the people that think, I dunno, in the final Rebuild Shinji is going to gain the memories from his TV counterpart or something that I take issue with.
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Nov 27, 2018 22:13
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Rebuild is a sequel because I think it is. Checkmate. 
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Nov 27, 2018 22:13
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Raxivace posted:Yeah this attitude is the one I agree with and what I mean by "thematic sequel". I still don't think Rebuild 4 is ever going to happen
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Nov 27, 2018 22:15
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esselfortium posted:Nothing exists outside of the TV series and EoE. That's a weird way to spell Pen2 In Training posted:I still don't think Rebuild 4 is ever going to happen Rebuild 4 starts....and it's the start of the TV show. It was NGE that was the sequel!! Ak Gara fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 22:20
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I'm fine with waiting for 4.0 forever, honestly. I'm still waiting for Half Life 2 Episode 3 anyways
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Nov 27, 2018 22:32
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Tbh having any sort of closure or narrative continuation of 3.0 at this point would almost be a letdown at this point, would much prefer 4.0 just go completely off the reservation someway
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Nov 27, 2018 22:56
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Tbh having any sort of closure or narrative continuation of 3.0 at this point would almost be a letdown at this point, would much prefer 4.0 just go completely off the reservation someway 3.0 already did, we're off the reservation by time it starts. I will agree there is 0 thematic resolution that will make sense, but at this point any kind of closure to the open ended insanity we were left with will be fine imo. I really need to rewatch the show and the rebuilds it's been a very long time. Rebuilds are worth seeing just for how pretty they are.
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Nov 27, 2018 23:10
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My read on Rebuild 3 is that it was a criticism of the idea that all you need to become a strong person is to be more assertive and hold a higher value for yourself and the ones you love. Now it's been years since I've seen the films, but at the end of Rebuild 2 Shinji finally takes a stand for himself and the one he loves, at what ends up being the worst possible time. This ends up causing the apocalypse and leads straight into Rebuild 3, where Shinji is left in the dust by the consequences of his actions. Rebuild 3 details the start of Shinji's atonement, during which he tries and fails to understand even how to begin. The entire movie is him going through an accelerated version of his development in 1 and 2. He starts out useless and confused, gets taken in by an organization he can barely understand, finds warmth through interpersonal relationships, and then, bam, he's right back in the driver's seat of another apocalypse. Again, I'm really only seeing the broadest strokes of the plot, but I think that the Curse of Eva is present in Shinji's arc here, as well as in the actual story. The bit at the end, where Shinji once again asserts himself over the good of everyone else, is him failing to break free of this curse. What comes afterwards is him, once again broken and confused, getting bailed out of his bad decision. In terms of straight up plot 4.0 could go so far as to age Shinji up to Gendo's age and just go wild, but thematically I think the only way to go is for Shinji to recognize and accept his faults, and to try and enact as much positive change as possible without relying on the easy out that is the Eva's power. Basically, Shinji needs to not pilot the robot, but while still proving himself to be useful in other capacities and not allowing himself to give up. That's my read on it, anyways. It's been a few years since I gave these a watch so it might be time to do it again and completely miss the point of 3.0.
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Nov 27, 2018 23:27
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To be fair saying he put himself over everyone else for 2 is a little hindsight. There is no way he could have predicted what happened would happen. It’s honestly a little random.
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Nov 27, 2018 23:36
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