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enraged_camel posted:Again you are being willfully obtuse. Come on, you are better than this. their brake performance was garbage and the update was needed to get acceptable, normal performance: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/22/17381210/tesla-model-3-consumer-reports-braking-musk your "hardware configuration being changed" update is not hardware configuration being changed, it is a hardware setting being changed...to cover up a massive problem from poor testing, one that probably has downsides that tesla didn't bother figuring out yet
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Dec 4, 2018 02:27
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In other news, SpaceX launched their 19th rocket this year. https://www.wsj.com/articles/spacex-launches-19th-rocket-in-a-year-a-company-record-1543862707 Notably, this was the first time a company booster flew three times. In addition, this was the first time they were able to recover the pairings, which go for $6 million. This accomplishment should further bring down the cost of future launches.
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Dec 4, 2018 02:50
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enraged_camel posted:In other news, SpaceX launched their 19th rocket this year. So are you going to address how you were praising Elon for breaking his cars further, or what?
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Dec 4, 2018 02:53
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fishmech posted:So are you going to address how you were praising Elon for breaking his cars further, or what? Sorry, what? Breaking his cars further?
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Dec 4, 2018 02:55
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evilweasel posted:if you own stocks, you can select when you pay the taxes, and choosing when to pay taxes can be extremely helpful. this goes double when you consider the time value of money: $100 today is worth more than $100 next year, so paying $100 next year is better than paying $100 today. i would also need to check if the tax rate on dividends was higher than the long-term capital gains tax. I'm just nitpicking by noting that if you obtain that stock is in the form of nonqualified stock options (which is a fairly common way of awarding stock as compensation), you will indeed pay tax in the year that you exercise the options (i.e. obtain the stock) even if you don't sell it. Since the tax is based on the difference between the current market value and the (discounted) price of your options, the tax you pay will usually be higher if the stock is valued at $150k than if it was at $100k. Anyway it doesn't really matter. Your point is essentially that compensation in the form of stock gives you more tax flexibility than dividends, and that's generally true. Even in the case of nonqualified stock options, you can of course just sit on the options and not exercise them if you don't want to pay stock, and even though there are various time limits on exercising options that still gives you more flexibility than regular income.
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Dec 4, 2018 02:56
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enraged_camel posted:Sorry, what? Breaking his cars further? Did you really miss that the latest update they did meant that Teslas now leak water into the interior because of how it changes window behavior? Because they hosed up trying to fix the door freezing issue. Because Tesla is incompetent.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:00
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fishmech posted:Did you really miss that the latest update they did meant that Teslas now leak water into the interior because of how it changes window behavior? Because they hosed up trying to fix the door freezing issue. Because Tesla is incompetent. Yes, I think it's ridiculous.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:03
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Anyone want to talk about tumblr suddenly making a sudden announcement that it's banning all pornography of all sorts and will ban any account posting 'female presenting nipples" It turns out there's a fuckton of puritans who think any porn or sex worker presence needs to get back in the closet.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:10
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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I don’t understand the connection between the door handles and the window. Why does the window need to “come down” in order for the door to open. I’ve watched YouTube videos about the doors but it didn’t help.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:56
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suck my woke dick posted:It turns out there's a fuckton of puritans who think any porn or sex worker presence needs to get back in the closet. I love how weird the intersection of morals is. Like it's a misogynistic rule, where woman are banned if they show their nipples but they want to nod to inclusiveness so they want trans women to know they support them and that they will be discriminated against as well. Like it's such a confusing mix that is so perfectly on brand for tumblr. Like the opposite policy would be way worse, but just calling it out and the weird tortured phrasing is a mess.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:56
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Ogmius815 posted:I don’t understand the connection between the door handles and the window. Why does the window need to “come down” in order for the door to open. I’ve watched YouTube videos about the doors but it didn’t help. There is no top part of the door, the window glass is the top edge of the door when it's open. So the closed window goes up a little bit into a groove in the car frame instead of a groove in the top of the door. So to open the door the handle pulls the window down an inch. look up "Frameless Windows" for a bunch of cars that do that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfCFuKVjry4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlc5HmsmHEI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NM-dunSOLw Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 04:03
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evilweasel posted:
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeaally? Subaru's early ABS equipped Foresters would disagree. Thats not the only one either. Oh if you want a real laugh Subaru just recalled every Ascent made in I think July 2018 because the B-Pillars werent welded
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Dec 4, 2018 04:12
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What's hilarious is framless car doors freezing up in cold weather is a long standing issue with lots of cars, and isn't really hard to deal with compared to all the other problems with cars in frigid weather. But only Tesla has had the brilliant idea to "fix" things by rolling the windows down in an ice storm. Good job!
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Dec 4, 2018 04:14
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Reeeeeeeeeeeeeaally? Do you have any more information about the early ABS issues? The only thing I find when searching are people who thought ABS was supposed to reduce stopping distance on ice, which isn't an ABS defect but a problem with people being unfamiliar with what the system is for. The b pillar issue is indeed hilarious but less than 300 cars were affected of which only 9 reached customers. All were completely replaced. I don't think anyone is arguing there are never recalls for other manufacturers, just that they don't pretend they can fix critical glaring mechanical issues with an OTA update.
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Dec 4, 2018 04:33
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Raldikuk posted:Do you have any more information about the early ABS issues? The only thing I find when searching are people who thought ABS was supposed to reduce stopping distance on ice, which isn't an ABS defect but a problem with people being unfamiliar with what the system is for. I see. Like the guy who was sleeping at the wheel because he didn't know what Autopilot is for?
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Dec 4, 2018 05:35
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enraged_camel posted:I see. What is autopilot for?
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Dec 4, 2018 05:35
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enraged_camel posted:I see. Yes, a random three letters is definitely similar in the public consciousness to a commonly known word for a system that automatically controls a vehicle for a person so that they don't have to do anything. iajanus fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 05:47
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Raldikuk posted:Do you have any more information about the early ABS issues? The only thing I find when searching are people who thought ABS was supposed to reduce stopping distance on ice, which isn't an ABS defect but a problem with people being unfamiliar with what the system is for. The ABS systems were badly calibrated so that anything less than perfect road surfaces increased stopping distances ie if you had a bump in the road when braking the ABS would pulse hard and even the correct response to this - bury your foot hard against the pulse - would lead to failure to stop. Pulling the ABS fuse would give you considerably better braking. Sound familiar? Thats your Model 3 braking problem... calibration of the ABS was out. A lot of issues that get recalls that seem to be hardware are in actuality software control related like a seat tensioner recall some did not long ago. Modules get replaced physically as most car makers just havent gone as far as Tesla have in making everything reflashable. So thence in a situation where say BMW had a problem with taillights that wouldnt work as required that was a physical recall... Tesla have gone a step further and the same issue can be fixed OTA. Wether thats good or bad Im not commenting on.... this is about Tesla have deliberatly chosen to control more subsystems in a way that can be managed OTA rather than requiring physical module changes and ODB2 reflashing for ECUs
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Dec 4, 2018 05:56
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iajanus posted:Yes, a random three letters is definitely similar in the public consciousness to a commonly known word for a system that automatically controls a vehicle for a person so that they don't have to do anything. The point is that it turns out there indeed is such a thing as people misusing a feature because they don't in fact know what it is for.
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Dec 4, 2018 05:59
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enraged_camel posted:The point is that it turns out there indeed is such a thing as people misusing a feature because they don't in fact know what it is for. What is autopilot for?
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Dec 4, 2018 06:05
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enraged_camel posted:The point is that it turns out there indeed is such a thing as people misusing a feature because they don't in fact know what it is for. Which is probably why it's not good to give it the same name as a feature that people do know the function of, which isn't what it does in this case. Hmmmm this is tricky
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Dec 4, 2018 06:06
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iajanus posted:Which is probably why it's not good to give it the same name as a feature that people do know the function of Okay, so you are one of those people who doesn't actually know how airplane autopilot features work, and their limitations. Got it.
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Dec 4, 2018 06:08
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enraged_camel posted:Okay, so you are one of those people who doesn't actually know how airplane autopilot features work, and their limitations. Got it. Tell us what you think airplane autopilot can do. Because in this space year of 2018 they can in fact successfully handle taxiing, take off, flight, and landing and taxiing off at the other end.
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Dec 4, 2018 06:11
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Teslaists insisting that the problem actually is that consumers don't know how airplane autopilot really works is great.
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Dec 4, 2018 06:12
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enraged_camel posted:Okay, so you are one of those people who doesn't actually know how airplane autopilot features work, and their limitations. Got it. Which hilariously proves my point - the overwhelming majority of people believe that autopilot can safely fly a plane without human input, and hence would think that a similarly named feature in their car would be able to drive it around with no input from them. Thanks for doing the legwork for me!
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Dec 4, 2018 06:14
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Customer: sometimes in heavy rainfall the defrost vent in my convertible gets stuck at full blast and it's really hot. Elon: *deploys an OTA update that automatically lowers the top when it rains* tesla twitter: another minor problem fixed perfectly without having to recall
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Dec 4, 2018 06:20
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iajanus posted:Which hilariously proves my point Hilarious that you outed yourself as an idiot, yes. iajanus posted:the overwhelming majority of people believe that autopilot can safely fly a plane without human input, and hence would think that a similarly named feature in their car would be able to drive it around with no input from them. Thanks for doing the legwork for me! Citation needed. Regardless of what the feature is called, the car issues loud warnings when it doesn't detect the driver holding the wheel for 15-20 seconds. This alone is sufficient to educate drivers that Autopilot is not 100% autonomous or anything close. Like, you might argue that some people may get the wrong impression about what the feature does at the time of purchase, but it's a misconception that will be corrected the first time they try the feature.
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Dec 4, 2018 06:37
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enraged_camel posted:Hilarious that you outed yourself as an idiot, yes. So how did his car drive for miles with him drunk and unresponsive? Isn't it supposed to prevent use in this very situation? Regardless, [tesla autopilot] is clearly woefully insufficient to be sold, when modern autopilots can handle the entire duty of going from one air field to another
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Dec 4, 2018 06:43
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fishmech posted:So how did his car drive for miles with him drunk and unresponsive? Isn't it supposed to prevent use in this very situation? The car detects hand contact with the wheel. It obviously has no way of detecting whether the driver is drunk, or otherwise incapacitated.
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Dec 4, 2018 06:48
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enraged_camel posted:The car detects hand contact with the wheel. It obviously has no way of detecting whether the driver is drunk, or otherwise incapacitated. So the car is dangerous as is, and should have had that disabled Tell us what you think airplane autopilot can do.
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Dec 4, 2018 06:49
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enraged_camel posted:This alone is sufficient to educate drivers that Autopilot is not 100% autonomous or anything close. Like, you might argue that some people may get the wrong impression about what the feature does at the time of purchase, but it's a misconception that will be corrected the first time they try the feature. Citation required (since it certainly appears that it didn't work as you describe for this guy, in either way you describe). Also yeah, what do you think a plane's autopilot does?
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Dec 4, 2018 06:52
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fishmech posted:Tell us what you think airplane autopilot can do. iajanus posted:Also yeah, what do you think a plane's autopilot does? It flies the airplane under routine conditions, and can make corrections (speed, altitude, turns, etc.) based on sensor data. Disengages under extreme situations (e.g. heavy turbulence), and also while on the ground. In most countries and most airplanes in service today, pilots handle take-off, landing and taxi-ing to gate. They are also required to always remain alert and keep their eyes on the instruments to make sure everything is operating correctly.
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Dec 4, 2018 07:00
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Aircraft autopilot is very emphatically not designed to operate without attentive and engaged pilots present. Anyway it's not like the average tesla driver has any loving idea about the finer points of aircraft control systems so it's a moot point. The system is irresponsible because it does not do enough to stress the importance of being 100% engaged and ready to take over, and sure, the name is part of that.
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Dec 4, 2018 07:01
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Morbus posted:The system is irresponsible because it does not do enough to stress the importance of being 100% engaged and ready to take over, and sure, the name is part of that. IMO constant nagging every 15-20 seconds is more than sufficient.
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Dec 4, 2018 07:02
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enraged_camel posted:IMO constant nagging every 15-20 seconds is more than sufficient. I don't own a Tesla and I'm not familiar with the most recent software/firmware updates, but as of like May/June this year you could definitely just engage "autopilot", ignore the kind warning to keep your hands on the wheel, and you wouldn't even get any warning for about 50 seconds, ~1 minute for it to disengage and disable autopilot for the rest of the drive. To me, this is overly lenient. If it's actually important to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention (it is), why allow the driver to gently caress off for a full minute before so much as flashing the border of the dash panel? You wouldn't consider it safe for a person to read their phone for 45 seconds while driving down the highway, but the autopilot feature as presently designed encourages tat kind of behavior by 1.) being able to drive the car just fine 99.99% of the time when you do that and 2.) not giving sufficient warning or being sufficiently strict about driver engagement. IMO it should howl like a banshee if there are no hands on the wheel for more than a few seconds.
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Dec 4, 2018 07:30
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Morbus posted:I don't own a Tesla and I'm not familiar with the most recent software/firmware updates, but as of like May/June this year you could definitely just engage "autopilot", ignore the kind warning to keep your hands on the wheel, and you wouldn't even get any warning for about 50 seconds, ~1 minute for it to disengage and disable autopilot for the rest of the drive. To me, this is overly lenient. If it's actually important to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention (it is), why allow the driver to gently caress off for a full minute before so much as flashing the border of the dash panel? You wouldn't consider it safe for a person to read their phone for 45 seconds while driving down the highway, but the autopilot feature as presently designed encourages tat kind of behavior by 1.) being able to drive the car just fine 99.99% of the time when you do that and 2.) not giving sufficient warning or being sufficiently strict about driver engagement. Check out the link above. It has a video of the new July update. Warnings are issued after 15-20 seconds now. It is a low enough interval that Tesla owners refer to it as “nagging” and a lot of them are complaining (which is silly imo).
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Dec 4, 2018 08:03
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enraged_camel posted:I see. It's the duty of the manufacturer to make sure the consumer understands the workings and limitations of their product. I don't know enough about Subaru to comment on that for educating their consumers about a new system but I do know many manufacturers included extensive literature on it. Perhaps Subaru's was insufficient and maybe their sales people sold it as if it were something it wasn't. Though it sounds like their early system may have actually been faulty. The naming of ABS says exactly what it does, I can't say the same about Tesla's autopilot. Their marketing literature basically sells it as if it allows autonomous driving (and musky ole boy has been touting that for a while even) when in reality it is a driver assist package. The warnings you mentioned were only added after a high profile accident on autopilot where the driver was watching a movie and he had his hands off the wheel the entire time. The tesla mistook a white semi trailer as the sky and ran right through it and into a telephone pole. It's good that they finally made it so the car would disable autopilot if the driver has their hands off the wheel too much but there's definitely still room for improvement. The commercial airline autopilot comparison is interesting because in the US you need 1500 flight hours to fly passengers and that then gets you into a puddle jumper or regional jet that may not even use autopilot (or at least not Cat IIIb ap) and along the way they need to earn specific type ratings for each specific aircraft (or in some cases a few if they are similar enough such as the 777 and 787) and learn those systems intricately. So for most commercial pilots they will know the limitations of their aircraft and the autopilot systems, whereas the general public will have a substantially different view. It's not a mistake that Tesla's marketing makes the average person think autopilot makes the car autonomous, it is purposefully playing off of that image.
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Dec 4, 2018 08:21
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Raldikuk posted:. It's not a mistake that Tesla's marketing makes the average person think autopilot makes the car autonomous, it is purposefully playing off of that image. Correct.
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Dec 4, 2018 08:40
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Raldikuk posted:It's the duty of the manufacturer to make sure the consumer understands the workings and limitations of their product. I don't know enough about Subaru to comment on that for educating their consumers about a new system but I do know many manufacturers included extensive literature on it. Perhaps Subaru's was insufficient and maybe their sales people sold it as if it were something it wasn't. Though it sounds like their early system may have actually been faulty. 
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Dec 4, 2018 09:00
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enraged_camel posted:Check out the link above. It has a video of the new July update. Warnings are issued after 15-20 seconds now. It is a low enough interval that Tesla owners refer to it as “nagging” and a lot of them are complaining (which is silly imo). Well, that's a move in the right direction... The fact that people think it's "nagging" to be told to put their loving hands on the steering wheel ~3-4 times a minute is an illustration of how misguided and/or stupid people are about this thing though. And when you come out the gate like "WOOOOO fully autonomous bio weapon protect mode space car GOOOOOO" it's not surprising that this is the stupid poo poo you end up with.
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Dec 4, 2018 09:16
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