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Zeruel posted:Sweet jesus it's an anti at field "They're deploying all nine of the EVA series equipped with the S2 Engines? .. .. .. .... That's a little bit much."
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Dec 8, 2018 14:27
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EoE Fuyutski owns.
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Dec 8, 2018 15:36
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Raxivace posted:I remember Shinji straight up calls Ritsuko's story about Gendo saving Rei from Unit 00 "bullshit" in the dub. That's only in the platinum release which redubbed a few random lines for... some reason  .The original dub just has him go "my father... did that?"
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Dec 8, 2018 18:42
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Just finished watching the original series + EoE and would be glad to read your impressions about some things which bug me; Is Misato being overtly sexual towards Shinji just a fanservice or do you see something more besides it? In EoE, did she kiss him to break his stupor? Why is Misato's tryst with Kaji shown as something universally deplorable? Misato is shown hating herself for seeking hollow pleasure but at the same time Kaji is a man with which she has meaningful, positive relationship. Why the attached guilt and shame? Shinji is disgusted when he sees this side of her but why? I do not understand this. How did you interpret the infamous hospital scene at the start of EoE? How do you compare the original ending vs EoE? Personally, I didn't mind the full-on introspection in the original ending. Are there any well-made cuts which combine these two? What was the original goal of Gendo+Yui building the first Evas? How did Yui sold to herself working on Evas is not unnatural/evil? How is it possible Kaworu didn't know Nerv has Lilith in the dome, not Adam? Steele, an organization pooling resources from the biggest nation-states, should be able to track Adam's movements quite easily...?
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Dec 12, 2018 12:21
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Maurice Augustus posted:Just finished watching the original series + EoE and would be glad to read your impressions about some things which bug me; Like most of the cast of Evangelion, Misato has issues with how she relates to people. She kissed him as a last ditch attempt to try and get him in the robot to save the world. quote:Why is Misato's tryst with Kaji shown as something universally deplorable? Misato is shown hating herself for seeking hollow pleasure but at the same time Kaji is a man with which she has meaningful, positive relationship. Why the attached guilt and shame? Shinji is disgusted when he sees this side of her but why? I do not understand this. It's not depicted as universally deplorable, however, we do see it as Shinji (and Misato) does. Shinji is confronted by it and perhaps disgusted by it, due to how he sees Misato as a surrogate mother. I believe in EoE he says that this is a side to Misato he didn't really want to accept or think about, and so hid from it. Shinji's view on Misato as a mother figure, and the feelings that come with it, is backed up by how, in the sandbox dream, the mother who comes to retrieve the doll children looks and sounds like Misato. Lots of people associate sex with guilt and shame, even when it's perfectly healthy and loving. In Misato's case, however, I believe she says that Kaji reminded her of her father. I'm sure that her facade of being the always-in-charge tactical commander factors into it, too. quote:How did you interpret the infamous hospital scene at the start of EoE? Shinji is at the end of his rope and it's fraying dramatically. Remember, he's just killed Kaworu and Misato basically said 'Deal with it'. Rei is a weird clone. Ritsuko is in jail. His dad is, well, his dad. So, Shinji goes to Asuka to try and wake her up, even if it's just to call him an idiot. Shinji can't make decisions for himself. So, he tries to wake her up, fails at it, and jerks off over her naked, comatose body because he has no idea how to deal with his attraction to her. It's maybe the most confronting scene in Evangelion and one of the few uses of the word 'gently caress' to drive home just how bad this makes Shinji feel and how much of an abuse it is. So, Shinji falls even deeper into his depressive fugue state, which leads to just about everything that happens in EoE. It also allows Shinji to know he actually returned to reality at the end of the film. quote:How do you compare the original ending vs EoE? Personally, I didn't mind the full-on introspection in the original ending. Are there any well-made cuts which combine these two? I think I prefer the TV ending but they're both great. The TV ending is basically what's happening inside Shinji's head during the events of EoE. The TV ending featured many stills of things, like Misato and Ritsuko's death, that would go on to be shown as happening in EoE. An argument can be made that the TV ending is where Shinji accepts Human Instrumentality and EoE is where he rejects it, as well. quote:What was the original goal of Gendo+Yui building the first Evas? How did Yui sold to herself working on Evas is not unnatural/evil? SEELE was pulling the strings even back then and Gendo and Yui worked for them. From the Dead Sea Scrolls, SEELE knew the Angels were coming and knew the Evas could be used for the Instrumentality Project. Yui was probably quite aware that the Evas were unnatural/evil, given that the leading theory as to why she was absorbed into Eva-01 was because she was aware of SEELE's plans and went beyond their reach so she could stop them. quote:How is it possible Kaworu didn't know Nerv has Lilith in the dome, not Adam? Steele, an organization pooling resources from the biggest nation-states, should be able to track Adam's movements quite easily...? SEELE didn't want Kaworu to know that and had lied to Kaworu about many things (although I think this is only made explicit in the Director's Cut episodes). SEELE wanted Kaworu taken off the board, knowing that they needed to destroy all the Angels before they could perform their version of Third Impact. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 12:43
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Maurice Augustus posted:Just finished watching the original series + EoE and would be glad to read your impressions about some things which bug me; Haven’t read any other posts about this yet, but these are my interpretations / readings: Misato’s sexuality: I think it’s partly fanservice, but also just how she expresses affection. A lot of it is her teasing Shinji to mess with him, since she knows he’s at the age where he’s real susceptible to that sort of stuff. But I think she’s insecure and gets some kind of positive reinforcement by seeing his reactions. She seems to be a very sexually active person, and her relationship with Kaji seems to be very sexually-motivated. I suspect that she (subconsciously) seeks that kind of attention. As for the kiss, I definitely think it was her trying to knock some sense into him and motivate him. Misato and Kaji: They do seem to get along alright, but it is very clear that Misato isn’t comfortable with a relationship with him, and I think that’s reason enough to think of it as a bad thing. Knowing Eva, it’s likely BECAUSE they get along well that she doesn’t want to be with him - fear of getting close to someone, etc. As for why Shinji acted disgusted when he saw that side of her, it might just be him not wanting to see that side of HER, personally. There’s likely some jealousy there. EoE Hospital scene: a lot of people say this is directly making fun of anime nerds, but I never really saw it as that. Just Shinji being in a really dark place and feeling frustrated with the world and himself, and taking it out in that way. Not just taking it out on Asuka, but also taking it out on himself - he does something he know is terrible, then berates himself about it immediately afterwards. EoE vs original Ending: I think they work well in tandem. I enjoy the completely introspective style of the original, but I also appreciate the pure craziness of EoE. I like the positivity of the original, but like the more grounded positivity of EoE. Also, EoE just bluntly ending with no credits or anything is the best poo poo. Gendo+Yui: I’m not totally sure what the original goal was, honestly it was probably just scientific experimenting and researching this weird god-like thing they found. I think also SEELE was directing them in the process, trying to achieve their goals, and Yui figured that out so did the contact experiment in an attempt to future-proof the third impact. Kaworu not knowing about Lilith: I think SEELE purposefully lied to him, in an attempt to trick him into triggering third impact. If he went back to Adam then I don’t think it would trigger an impact - but him going to Lilith would. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 22:12
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Yui is the true mastermind behind all of Evangelion 
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Dec 12, 2018 22:23
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CodfishCartographer posted:Also, EoE just bluntly ending with no credits or anything ? EoE has credits.
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Dec 12, 2018 22:25
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Yeah they're hyper dramatically smack in the middle of the movie. It's a great touch
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Dec 12, 2018 22:26
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Heck it's even got credits in the middle!
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Dec 12, 2018 22:26
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Paracelsus posted:? Yeah they’re in the middle, which works great as an intermission of sorts. Go grab a coke, maybe take a bathroom break, then settle in for the third fuckin’ impact baby. Then when it ends it feels like something went wrong. Like the movie bugged out and ended early. So you replay it and watch the time and nope, that’s just how it ends. It’s so weird and disorienting after all that you just got done watching, it’s perfect and brilliant.
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Dec 12, 2018 22:28
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The kiss is a lot of things at once, all of them disturbing. First, the kiss is an attempt to motivate Shinji in order to save his life, by the only means that Misato thinks will reach him. Beyond the really obviously gross aspects of promising sex to a teenager, it's also reflective of Misato's lack of self-worth; this is all she thinks she has to offer him that he actually cares about. It's the same reason she introduces herself to him in the very first episode with a sexualized photo; this is how Misato thinks of herself. Second, Misato is a deeply vengeful person. One of the show's ironic reversals is that Misato keeps a small crucifix (a Christian symbol of forgiveness and mercy) as a reminder of her father's death and her dedication to exterminating the angels. Getting Shinji to pilot the robot isn't just for his sake, and it's not just to protect NERV HQ because, as by this point she almost certainly knows they're doomed. What does that leave? Vengeance against SEELE. She's been using Shinji as a proxy for her own war throughout the entire series, so turning him loose on the people who were using her is just the next logical step. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 22:43
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At the end of episode 6 Shinji makes Rei smile. Well my first impression was Rei's smile was fake - she just smiled cause Shinji told her that's what she should be doing/ he wants her to do. Then I readHideaki Anno posted:At the end Rei says "I don't know what to do," and Shinji says, "I think you should smile," and Rei smiles. ... Afterwards, when I thought about it, I cursed. In short, if she and Shinji completely "communicated" there, then isn't she over with? At that moment, Rei, for me, was finished. I also interpreted Misato coming in to Shinji's room and touching his hand as just a human touch leading to hug or something, not a sexual advance. Did you have these moments where your impressions were different at first? Also, there's a scene in which Rei and Gendo are talking and both take pleasure in the interaction. Gendo also saves Rei from searing capsule, burning his hands in process. It seems he holds Rei in the highest regard yet he routinely uses her as a disposable tool (nevermind the cloning vat). Why this disparity? CodfishCartographer posted:Misato’s sexuality: I think it’s partly fanservice, but also just how she expresses affection. A lot of it is her teasing Shinji to mess with him, since she knows he’s at the age where he’s real susceptible to that sort of stuff. But I think she’s insecure and gets some kind of positive reinforcement by seeing his reactions. She seems to be a very sexually active person, and her relationship with Kaji seems to be very sexually-motivated. I suspect that she (subconsciously) seeks that kind of attention. As for the kiss, I definitely think it was her trying to knock some sense into him and motivate him. Milkfred E. Moore posted:She kissed him as a last ditch attempt to try and get him in the robot to save the world. Tuxedo Catfish posted:The kiss is [...] also reflective of Misato's lack of self-worth; this is all she thinks she has to offer him that he actually cares about. It's the same reason she introduces herself to him in the very first episode with a sexualized photo; this is how Misato thinks of herself. Milkfred E. Moore posted:Shinji is at the end of his rope and it's fraying dramatically. Remember, he's just killed Kaworu and Misato basically said 'Deal with it'. Rei is a weird clone. Ritsuko is in jail. His dad is, well, his dad. So, Shinji goes to Asuka to try and wake her up, even if it's just to call him an idiot. Shinji can't make decisions for himself. So, he tries to wake her up, fails at it, and jerks off over her naked, comatose body because he has no idea how to deal with his attraction to her. CodfishCartographer posted:EoE vs original Ending: I think they work well in tandem. I enjoy the completely introspective style of the original, but I also appreciate the pure craziness of EoE. I like the positivity of the original, but like the more grounded positivity of EoE. Milkfred E. Moore posted:An argument can be made that the TV ending is where Shinji accepts Human Instrumentality and EoE is where he rejects it, as well. Tuxedo Catfish posted:Second, Misato is a deeply vengeful person. One of the show's ironic reversals is that Misato keeps a small crucifix (a Christian symbol of forgiveness and mercy) as a reminder of her father's death and her dedication to exterminating the angels. Getting Shinji to pilot the robot isn't just for his sake, and it's not just to protect NERV HQ because, as by this point she almost certainly knows they're doomed. Tuxedo Catfish posted:As time's passed I've moved further and further away from reading Rebuild as being about "what's wrong with Shinji" and more about the ethical context he's acting in.
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Dec 13, 2018 00:20
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Maurice Augustus posted:I think along these lines too, perhaps more straightforwardly tho. He basically does it cause he's 14 and horny. However what bugs me is why here and now? Why not earlier at home? There were several situations when they were alone with Asuka. It seemed to me this scene, along with others, is there mainly to add some shock value. I felt like in TV run besides some blatant fanservice things never went over the edge. Then in EoE there's the hospital, the kiss, "nothing personal", "hurr durr humans are the worst enemies of themselves" etc. etc. For me same thing happened in Serenity movie vs the original Firefly run. Shinji didn't jerk off over Asuka after ripping her shirt open when they lived together because then she would know about it and his life would be ruined. He also wasn't at literally the lowest point in his life when they lived together. Him masturbating over her when she's in a coma is not just for shock value, it's there to show how horrible of a state of mind Shinji is in. Also hwo the gently caress does "14 and horny" equate to sexually assaulting someone?
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Dec 13, 2018 01:20
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Maurice Augustus posted:Producers said on several occasions Christian symbols were used cause they liked the aesthetic and wanted to differentiate from other mecha shows. That's why I think digging in to analyze Christian symbolism or what not in this show may be a fool's errand. That said, it's interesting to apply western cultural bias to a show which was made by members of and for Japanese society. One dude said this, and pretty much any time the subject comes up it's just other members of the creative team speculating about what Anno had in mind -- because none of them actually KNEW. Hiroyuki Yamaga posted:On the reasons for use of Judeo-Christian symbology in Eva Anno is incredibly tight-lipped about what anything in Evangelion means, strongly encourages viewers to read their own experiences into it, and is also very well-read and familiar with all kinds of Western literature. Plus, the show is frankly very easy to read as a critique of transcendent religion in both a Christian and (though I'm less well-versed in this side of things) Buddhist terms.
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Dec 13, 2018 01:34
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I tend to agree with Catfish here. There's probably several ways to coherently read most of the religious allusions in the show- I'm not sure specific commentary on contemporary Christianity is intended but that's a far cry from the allusions in the show being meaningless.
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Dec 13, 2018 01:55
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Honestly even if Anno himself went on live TV and declared that the Christian symbols were fake bullshit that mean nothing, who cares? All that matters is what you get out of them and what they mean to you. Death of the author and all that poo poo.
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Dec 13, 2018 02:09
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CodfishCartographer posted:Honestly even if Anno himself went on live TV and declared that the Christian symbols were fake bullshit that mean nothing, who cares? All that matters is what you get out of them and what they mean to you. Death of the author and all that poo poo. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Dec 13, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 02:24
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Maurice Augustus posted:Also, there's a scene in which Rei and Gendo are talking and both take pleasure in the interaction. Gendo also saves Rei from searing capsule, burning his hands in process. It seems he holds Rei in the highest regard yet he routinely uses her as a disposable tool (nevermind the cloning vat). Why this disparity? Rei reminds Gendo of Yui, so, there's that element there. However, Rei is just another tool to advance Gendo's goal of being reunited with the actual Yui. While Gendo knows they can clone Rei, it wouldn't look good if everyone else knew about it. A lot of Gendo's more human moments like that are still grounded in his ruthless pragmatism. If he gets to the searing entry plug first, and Rei is dead, he can just cover it up and and bust out a new clone. Just like what happened with Ritsuko's mother and what led to Rei 3. quote:Arguably an adult kiss did the job. I presume some sort of human connection is the way to go here and I don't think motherly hug or something similar would work better than a kiss. Shinji is 14 after all. But overall I'm not sure I'm buying Misato being so broken she is repeatedly trying to interact sexually with a teenage boy she takes in as guardian. If it were predatory, why would she take in girls too? Misato only frames her relationships with men in such a way. It's definitely arguable that the kiss did anything at all, given that Shinji climbs into Unit 01 and Unit 01 bursts out of the Geofront... and Shinji is still basically half-catatonic, not really wanting to be in the Eva. He did it it because Misato told him to, and he did it because Yui woke up and broke the bakelite. The kiss didn't exactly awaken Shinji into this state of machismo where destroying the S2 Evas was his path to getting laid, which you can assume was what Misato was hoping for. Also remember that Misato and Kaji are opposites in that sense. Asuka desperately wants Kaji to acknowledge her as a woman, but he shoots her down routinely and often quite firmly. Shinji desires it secretly and Misato comes very close to giving him what he wants, but Shinji recoils. quote:I think along these lines too, perhaps more straightforwardly tho. He basically does it cause he's 14 and horny. However what bugs me is why here and now? Why not earlier at home? There were several situations when they were alone with Asuka. It seemed to me this scene, along with others, is there mainly to add some shock value. I felt like in TV run besides some blatant fanservice things never went over the edge. Then in EoE there's the hospital, the kiss, "nothing personal", "hurr durr humans are the worst enemies of themselves" etc. etc. For me same thing happened in Serenity movie vs the original Firefly run. The here and now is as-mentioned. Shinji has killed Kaworu maybe only hours before, maybe a day at most, and his mental state is disintegrating. Remember, Kaworu is the only person who has told Shinji he loved him, and sacrificed himself so Shinji might live on. That's the whole point. When Shinji was living with Asuka, he was about as well-adjusted as he was ever going to get, and in a generally okay place. Like CodfishCartographer says, if he'd done it while living with them, it would've been disastrous. End of Evangelion is a movie about the end of the world, and it's a movie where the bad guys plot works and the world flat out ends. It goes right over that edge. I mean, Third Impact's trigger is basically Shinji deciding to kill Asuka and the whole world along with her. "No one ever helps me, so they can all just die." quote:Producers said on several occasions Christian symbols were used cause they liked the aesthetic and wanted to differentiate from other mecha shows. That's why I think digging in to analyze Christian symbolism or what not in this show may be a fool's errand. That said, it's interesting to apply western cultural bias to a show which was made by members of and for Japanese society. On the other hand, the show is remarkably consistent with how they are used and a lot of the names of the Angels aren't exactly random. I think Evangelion leaned into the Christian stuff more as the show went on. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Dec 13, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 02:35
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Maurice Augustus posted:Fun thing is both endings are positive (at least from Shinji's personal level) but one says Instrumentality is good and the other says it is bad. people say this, but i honestly don't see it. in both endings there is a pretty clear rejection of instrumentality and the impetus behind it though the reasoning behind the rejections does differ slightly
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Dec 13, 2018 04:18
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Shinji rejects instrumentality because he realises he can be the master of his destiny, and even if life sucks, sometimes it doesn't and it's worth sticking it through to see the times when its really good. It's just that EoE is the very harsh reality that the world has literally ended as a result of instrumentality.
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Dec 13, 2018 04:42
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I saw both endings having the same message - sometimes you need to deal with the pain of life to be happy, but it's worthwhile to do so. Original ending kind of just leaves it at that, except with a bit more "I have value!" added on too. EoE goes "okay, that's good and all, but it's a long hard road to happiness, and you'll need to work for it."
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Dec 13, 2018 04:54
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What are your top 3 moments/scenes? For me right now
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Dec 13, 2018 19:09
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Maurice Augustus posted:What are your top 3 moments/scenes? Rei smile forever.  And I guess Zeruel and Unit 01 fighting right there in the control room Jesus Christ! And maybe the very first opening shots with the tanks on the mountainside and stuff. Even if Eva didn't have all the mind fuckery it's known for, it's still well directed as gently caress. redsniper fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Dec 13, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 19:15
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Asuka vs mp Evas Shinji inside Leliel and subsequent escape Gendo admitting his faults and fears just before being bisected Honorable mention to Kaworu/Rei displaying some semblance of free will for the sake of Shinji
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Dec 13, 2018 19:33
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I think my favorite is the elevator scene. It brings to mind all the other "transport" places where conversations or just introspection happen. Airplanes, misato's car, escalators, TRAINS. It's one of my favorite motifs. There's a scene in the rebuilds where misato and ritsuko are riding on some kind of freaking ski lift in some really dark tunnel. SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Dec 13, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 21:12
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I’d say my favorite moment is the time Unit 01 starts feeling a craving for Angel-back Ribs.
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Dec 13, 2018 21:41
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Regalingualius posted:I’d say my favorite moment is the time Unit 01 starts feeling a craving for Angel-back Ribs. I want my angel back angel back angel back I want my angel back angel back angel back TOKYO THREEEE ANGEL BACK RIBBBSSSS
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Dec 13, 2018 21:47
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LCL Sauce.
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Dec 13, 2018 21:55
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Many pieces of media (and some annoying sorts of people) tend to forget that silence happens. I think part of why Non Non Biyori gets lauded for scenery is because it shuts up and lets you just use your eyes on it. The opposition to that is the slow static scenes of Eva where a discussion can be paid attention to. They're static for apparent reasons though (cars, elevators). You don't have crazy background visuals going on when it's dialogue you're supposed to pay attention to. Additionally, though, Eva will completely break these concepts.
Maybe that's also why I could never sit through the original ending of the eva series, because if I recall it's just endless audio and visual noise in comparison to parts of the episodes before it. For some reason I remember there was a popular mod (10k+ downloads) for Minecraft way back in proper beta that would just add silent tracks to the music folder, so you'd get breaks and silence sometimes as it shuffled through them.
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Dec 13, 2018 21:57
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Kaworu scene is a fantastic scene. Even though it was sneakily done for budget concerns. e: unironically, its loving lit. Kaworu's english VA kills it. "Let us go, Adam's dark shadow, servant of the Lilim!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zMN9JyF7RM ee: man this episode is full of great voice acting from the english team. "God have mercy, SEELE has sent an Angel to us!" "The old man wants to advance his schedule using us as his tools" eee: YOU BETRAYED ME YOU BETRAYED THE TRUST I PLACED IN YOU YOU BETRAYED ME JUST LIKE MY FATHER DID he even apologises to Asuka for having to fight Eva 02  
Zeruel fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Dec 14, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 22:18
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I actually love the scene right before Kaworu is popped when he's floating down to the basement and Ode to Joy is playing. I get chills right when the choir peaks and the final door is about to open.
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Dec 13, 2018 23:19
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Maurice Augustus posted:What are your top 3 moments/scenes? Disregarding the big ones that everyone else might mention...
Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Dec 14, 2018 |
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Dec 14, 2018 00:32
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Maurice Augustus posted:What are your top 3 moments/scenes? - Unit 1 Shutting down over Unit 3 as the sun sets following the use of the dummy plug - Unit 2 showdown with the Production Evas - Shinji and Asuka syncing up in the wacky comedy dance episode, their finale to take care of the angel is just like this cute moment before what becomes a nightmare for all of them. e: I had unit 1 ripping apart Zereul, but that's p iconic and frankly the dance episode is my favorite early episode given the series doesn't get real dark till a bit after that. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Dec 14, 2018 |
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Dec 14, 2018 01:20
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Maurice Augustus posted:What are your top 3 moments/scenes? the sequence in the Rebuilds where they reroute the entire power grid to connect it to the giant sniper rifle. The scale is sold really well
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Dec 14, 2018 02:02
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- the sequence in which unit 01 starts running after jet alone -shinji sitting on the train and the compartment occupants change as time passes -the alternate reality scene where everyone is wacky (only in the dub though) GhostofJohnMuir fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Dec 14, 2018 |
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Dec 14, 2018 03:59
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:- the sequence in which unit 01 starts running after jet alone That one's all about the music choice, which makes the whole thing feel entirely different from an angel encounter (because it is.)
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Dec 14, 2018 04:09
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The post about the music score made me think about how monster of the week Eva was great. Particularly everything from Gaghiel onwards: Sandalphon, Israfel, Matariel, Iruel, and Sahaquiel. Leilei is when it starts to get a little too heavy, with the weight falling completely on Bardiel and Zeruel.
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Dec 14, 2018 04:15
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My favourite scenes are probably the ones with the most surreal imagery, Shinji in the Sea of Dirac, Instrumentality happening in EoE. Which is the one with the hosed up Rei face, where Shinji is daydreaming in Unit 00? E: basically anything when this music is playing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D3jtbsdjZM Sakurazuka fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Dec 14, 2018 |
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Dec 14, 2018 10:10
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Also how the hell was Unit 01 getting lowered down central dogma after Kaworu? Is there an elevator or harness or something that just isn't shown very well?
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Dec 14, 2018 15:26
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