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a cartoon duck posted:Goblin Slayer is a work of fiction. Of course if the text says goblins are all killer rapist it's true within the text's narrative and nobody cares if the goblins are unfairly represented, because they're not real. It's also 2019 and the changing political climate made a lot of people keenly aware of the prevalence of certain types of rhetoric, and now the badass monster killer stories you used to love suddenly have this really bitter after taste as you notice some overlapping patterns. Look, GS has a barrel full of flaws and problems, but you're turning that barrel upside down, emptying it, and scraping the bottom with your bare fingernails if you think "racist propaganda" is one of them. Maybe if the goblins had some characteristics about them that alluded to real life races, then I could see your point, but they're literally just generic goblins.
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Jan 2, 2019 22:30
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| # ? May 26, 2024 05:24 |
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The more I hear about Shield Hero, the more I wonder if there was some mixing of reports about the lovely parts of each. Goblin Slayer doesn't sound half as bad as some made it out to be.
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Jan 2, 2019 22:32
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Berserk existing doesn't stop GS from being a trashfire
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Jan 2, 2019 22:40
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Ranzear posted:The more I hear about Shield Hero, the more I wonder if there was some mixing of reports about the lovely parts of each. Goblin Slayer doesn't sound half as bad as some made it out to be. It's a decent enough high fantasy romp if you take out all the rapey bits, which is probably the worst part about it. It's like they wanted to make an "edgy" show without actually wanting to commit. Mother's Basement did a pretty good analysis of the first episode and how it's basically clickbait for the rest of the series. In addition to that, the problematic stuff comes in with the infamous scene and how it exists purportedly to exposit how grim and terrible this world is, but the way they frame it makes it seem alluring and sexy instead, setting a distasteful bad tone for the show.
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Jan 2, 2019 22:41
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Look, GS has a barrel full of flaws and problems, but you're turning that barrel upside down, emptying it, and scraping the bottom with your bare fingernails if you think "racist propaganda" is one of them. Maybe if the goblins had some characteristics about them that alluded to real life races, then I could see your point, but they're literally just generic goblins. Again, yeah, that's the text. Ain't no one worrying about unfair representation of goblins in some cartoon. Obviously Goblin Slayer isn't the first or only story featuring an evil species of evil people that must be stopped with utmost violence because they're so evil and we have no choice, but surely you can see why that kind of story doesn't have the same appeal as it used to for people anymore?
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Jan 2, 2019 22:46
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Time for a hot take stealing poo poo from the Gas Thread. The comparisons to Berserk and DOOM don't loving work in the slightest beyond bare surface levels because in DOOM and Berserk the Demons are all intended to be reflections of humanity and how far it's willing to go for power and how far it's willing to fall into perdition to get there. There's a reason why all of the worst, most powerful, and most horrific creatures are former humans who sold their humanity in exchange for power. They're both points about how the worst most hosed up and horrid creatures aren't out there, but right loving here and a big part of the problem is humanities inability to own that poo poo and try to better themselves. The Guts comparison doesn't work very well at all since Guts is actually MUCH more complex and fleshed out and we see the seesaw of things. Getting better at being with people when traveling with the BotH, how all of that fell apart and became a hyper violent revenge filled wanderer, meeting Godo again who gives him a "Reason You Suck" speech about how it's not Rickerts fault that Casca went missing since he had to stay and tend to him and he should have stayed to care for her instead of going of to God knows where purely for revenge, etc. Part of it is people reaching out to Guts, but part of iut is also Guts reflecting on the fact that he needs to loving sort his own poo poo out himself as well. There's internal drive and not just purely external drive. As for the racism stuff, yeah we have a sitting president use this kind of rhetoric to attack minorities and past authors like Wagner, Lovecraft, Howard, and Tolkien(who regretted this) have used similar codification. I don't necessarily think the author used it intentionally, but it's drawing from the same well. They don't have to be human either, they just have to be sentient and sapient. a cartoon duck posted:Again, yeah, that's the text. Ain't no one worrying about unfair representation of goblins in some cartoon. Obviously Goblin Slayer isn't the first or only story featuring an evil species of evil people that must be stopped with utmost violence because they're so evil and we have no choice, but surely you can see why that kind of story doesn't have the same appeal as it used to for people anymore? This. A LOT of videogames like Disgaea(circa 2003) and Yu Yu Hakusho have ruined a lot of monster races and demons as inherently evil and whatnot so you actually don't see as much I think it feels like because of those. Hell you see more stuff from the perspective of monsters and demons now which is actually much more fascinating. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 22:48
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:It's a decent enough high fantasy romp if you take out all the rapey bits, argh! god drat it! stop!
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Jan 2, 2019 22:54
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a cartoon duck posted:Again, yeah, that's the text. Ain't no one worrying about unfair representation of goblins in some cartoon. Obviously Goblin Slayer isn't the first or only story featuring an evil species of evil people that must be stopped with utmost violence because they're so evil and we have no choice, but surely you can see why that kind of story doesn't have the same appeal as it used to for people anymore? I mean, it's only Goblin Slayer himself who states that all goblins are evil without exception and they must all be eradicated. Everyone else in the world just sees them as nuisances who attack farms and kidnap women. It depends on how much weight you put on GS's words as being the law of the narrative, but when you consider his backstory and how the other party members talk to him, you can guess that the intention is that his mindset is supposed to be seen as flawed. One of the plot points in the show is how his party members try and break him out of that mindset and learn to enjoy adventuring for adventuring's sake. They even say that with the way he thinks and acts, he might as well be a goblin himself. Yeah, when viewed through a certain lens, I guess it can seem like racist propaganda, but I saw it more as a story of what mad obsession can do to someone. With unnecessary rape. Venuz Patrol posted:argh! god drat it! stop! That was not me saying "You should watch it and ignore the rapey bits", which you would have figured out if you read the rest of the post.
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Jan 2, 2019 22:58
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Yeah, when viewed through a certain lens, I guess it can seem like racist propaganda, but I saw it more as a story of what mad obsession can do to someone. With unnecessary rape. New pullquote for the bd release lol.
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Jan 2, 2019 23:05
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:I mean, it's only Goblin Slayer himself who states that all goblins are evil without exception and they must all be eradicated. Everyone else in the world just sees them as nuisances who attack farms and kidnap women. They attack farms and kidnap women and rape and murder them. These aren't cute Lorwyn-style goblins who steal goats.
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Jan 2, 2019 23:08
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The difference between Berserk and Goblin Slayer is that the sexual menaces of the goblins are both front and center and played for a sort of hosed up titillation. The very first chapter of the manga involves a drawn out depiction and explanation of torture and rape, and that never goes away. Literally every storyline focuses heavily on sexualized violence.
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Jan 2, 2019 23:12
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On a slightly related note I'm reading about this shield hero anime and it seems like some weird incel's revenge fantasy, what the gently caress.
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Jan 2, 2019 23:18
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piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssss
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Jan 2, 2019 23:21
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fool_of_sound posted:The difference between Berserk and Goblin Slayer is that the sexual menaces of the goblins are both front and center and played for a sort of hosed up titillation. The very first chapter of the manga involves a drawn out depiction and explanation of torture and rape, and that never goes away. Literally every storyline focuses heavily on sexualized violence. Berserks first 3 pages are Guts loving a demon woman before calling her a bitch and blowing her head off with his arm cannon. Every storylinebin berserk features rape, cannibalism or both. Just admit that you're fine with it in Berserk because you read that before you started caring about that in fiction. Kaiser Mazoku posted:On a slightly related note I'm reading about this shield hero anime and it seems like some weird incel's revenge fantasy, what the gently caress. It's the loving worst on every level. Its the trashiest thing ive ever had the displeaure to read about. It has no redeeming qualities and the villain is literally a woman who uses false rape claims to destroy the world. An aspect of a goddess doing so so she can eat everyone while crying about anyone who even lifts a finger. It is so god damned bad in concept, execution and content. Onmi fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 23:21
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Onmi posted:Berserks first 3 pages are Guts loving a demon woman before calling her a bitch and blowing her head off with his arm cannon. Every storylinebin berserk features rape, cannibalism or both. Just admit that you're fine with it in Berserk because you read that before you started caring about that in fiction. Nah it's lovely in Berserk too, and I stopped reading it once I grew the gently caress up. Goblin Slayer is just all the worst parts of Berserk with almost zero redeeming character moments.
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Jan 2, 2019 23:23
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quote:It's the loving worst on every level. Its the trashiest thing ive ever had the displeaure to read about. It has no redeeming qualities and the villain is literally a woman who uses false rape claims to destroy the world. An aspect of a goddess doing so so she can eat everyone while crying about anyone who even lifts a finger. It is so god damned bad in concept, execution and content.
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Jan 2, 2019 23:29
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Motto posted:piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssss
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Jan 2, 2019 23:30
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Ugh, I was considering giving it a glance for trainwreck value but this sounds like it'll piss me off too much even for that. It's just a shitshow. Even if it wasn't offensive it's every loving harem iseksi already. You don't even have the Gate excuse of seeing tanks vs dragons. Nothing is done you haven't seen 1000 times but better. It's one interesting premise is the hero uses a shield for a weapon, but they dont even do anything cool with it. Also, no matter the villain i expect my protagonists to either be people I think we admirable or are besides admirable people trying to help them. My point is selling the female villain into sex slavery to a guy who is described as looking like Jabba the Hurt, after magically changing her name to something like lying bitch? That's not the actions of a protagonist. But I'm girly in the superman and Spider-Man camp of wanting my heroes to be hero. And this show doesn't get the Goblin Slayer out because it's NAMED Shield HERO. That's half a joke and half serious... the final comment anyway the rest of it all happens. Shield Hero, as I said only avoids this list by virtue of coming out in 2019. And it can only dodd the 2019 one by falling into the back of your mind, but I will remember and gently caress this entire concept.
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Jan 3, 2019 00:10
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Ugh, I was considering giving it a glance for trainwreck value but this sounds like it'll piss me off too much even for that. I remember seeing that evil lady at the start and having a tug-at-the-collar moment of "yikes, well, let's see if it can somehow spin this in a way that isn't grotesque" and nope, it just went for it whole cloth, it's a shame it's apparently been successful as a series Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 3, 2019 |
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Jan 3, 2019 00:24
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Yeah, in Berserk (and I guess in Doom because they're literal demons), the monsters' monstrosity is a reflection of humanity's monstrosity. Even the trolls are born out of human fear and superstition made manifest. The goblins in Goblin Slayer, on the other hand, are explicitly dehumanised - they're childlike subhumans murdering us and stealing our women, which is a really uncomfortable reminder of how often fantasy monsters are based on racist caricatures. Like, Goblin Slayer's biggest inspiration is Dungeons and Dragons, and if you're not aware of the weird racist poo poo in that, then hoo boy.
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Jan 3, 2019 00:47
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Motto posted:piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssss
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Jan 3, 2019 01:28
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So what won?
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Jan 3, 2019 09:56
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Motto posted:piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssss It's not an anime, but these posts somehow still won worst anime of the year.
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Jan 3, 2019 10:10
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i'm sorry do you want me to say for the third time that people are incapable of interacting with anything deeper than the surface text of a piece of writing and that's been apparent in how every discussion of goblin slayer results in people comparing it to berserk despite massive differences in their approaches to writing characters stemming from the fact, that goblin slayer is a 2chan cyoa forum thread and berserk is a manga with a narrative that evolves heavily over its run and also that it's really tedious that we have to have multi-page discussions of whether goblin slayer is super bad or just bad, that ultimately bring no actual meaningful discussion of anything or come to any kind of agreement other than that, it's kind of bad also how goblin slayer gets put on a pedestal as the worst thing ever created despite not even being the worst thing that aired in 2018 on a pure moral standpoint, to the point that people briefly made effort posts about how the anime about how lesbians are pedophiles was morally superior
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Jan 3, 2019 10:54
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It's better than piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisss at least. Did a quick lookup through this topic. Here's the top 3 poo poo of 2018: 1. darling in the franxx 10 votes 2. persona 5/backstreet girls 7 votes each 3. uzumaid/goblin slayer 6 votes each
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Jan 3, 2019 11:57
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Well, since he did the worst, I'll go ahead and do a roundup for Most Avoided 1. Goblin Slayer (this is extremely not a surprise given the mood on the forums) - 14 mentions. 2. Backstreet Girls - 10 mentions. 3. Uzamaid - 9 mentions. 4. (three way tie) Teasing Master Takagi, My Sister My Writer, and Dakaichi - 2 mentions. The worst part about Goblin Slayer is the anime's ability to force people into circular discourse. Hopefully it's just a weird blip and no other anime will have that happen.
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Jan 3, 2019 12:32
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The Colonel posted:the anime about how lesbians are pedophiles was morally superior The what now? Grapplejack posted:Well, since he did the worst, I'll go ahead and do a roundup for Most Avoided Was My Sister My Writer the one where someone snuck a plea for help into the credits? I think part of the reason people who like GS are so vehement on defending it is the personal nature of the criticism about it. It's not "It's a bad show" it's "You are a rapist who is probably raping right now if you like this show." Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jan 3, 2019 |
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Jan 3, 2019 12:39
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Cuntellectual posted:Was My Sister My Writer the one where someone snuck a plea for help into the credits? Yeah. My Sister My Writer is a loving trainwreck on every single level. You might remember it from the animation errors https://twitter.com/AK03tanishi/status/1060156759614996486 https://twitter.com/micchi0723/status/1060358632829706241 https://twitter.com/CotetuLgoon/status/1061490205683838981 Unfortunately it's not bad enough to be funny bad, which is why it was on my list for worst anime. Grapplejack fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jan 3, 2019 |
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Jan 3, 2019 12:45
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Did someone actually called for help in the credits? That's loving depressing man...
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Jan 3, 2019 12:52
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Grapplejack posted:Hopefully it's just a weird blip and no other anime will have that happen. Grapplejack posted:Yeah. My Sister My Writer is a loving trainwreck on every single level. You might remember it from the animation errors 
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Jan 3, 2019 13:10
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Mulderman posted:Did someone actually called for help in the credits? That's loving depressing man... Oh yeah https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-11-20/my-sister-my-writer-credits-list-animator-with-pseudonym-honestly-im-screwed/.139743
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Jan 3, 2019 13:11
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Captain Invictus posted:Shield Hero anime is starting in six days I don't think anyone is going to defend Shield Hero though, I mean I won't be shocked if someone tries to, depends on how much is adapted.
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Jan 3, 2019 13:13
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Onmi posted:I don't think anyone is going to defend Shield Hero though, I mean I won't be shocked if someone tries to, depends on how much is adapted. It's already happened, on these forums even. And I've seen discourse elsewhere. Though truth be told I doubt it'll wind up being as big of a shouting contest though, since it's problems are kind of front and center, moreso its text rather than subtext, and defending those elements will definitely reflect more on the person defending them than anything.
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Jan 3, 2019 16:05
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I tried getting into the series and stopped before the truly awful poo poo happened. Because I was bored as gently caress. It's a generic by the numbers Isekai with an unlikable protagonist. And it has the bad luck of going up against That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime. An already established Isekai that's actually really good.
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Jan 3, 2019 16:39
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Mulderman posted:I tried getting into the series and stopped before the truly awful poo poo happened. That's Shield Heroes like nail in the coffin. It's just boring, even if bit didn't have disgusting writing it would just be dull. It's a worse SAO, which is already bad and boring and probably the least interesting MMOisekai out there. That I'm aware of.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:21
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it's weird to me that being boring is what's the nail in the coffin, not the story about getting revenge on Vile Women
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Jan 3, 2019 17:29
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Expect My Mom posted:it's weird to me that being boring is what's the nail in the coffin, not the story about getting revenge on Vile Women Not that weird. That just means it doesn't even have trainwreck value.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:35
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Expect My Mom posted:it's weird to me that being boring is what's the nail in the coffin, not the story about getting revenge on Vile Women The latter appeals to misogynists. The former doesn't appeal to anyone.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:40
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*glances at non non biyori thread titles*
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Jan 3, 2019 17:42
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I guess that just doesn't make sense to me, I've never watched a show because I heard it was terrible. I don't get the mindset. Like I barely make time for the stuff I want to watch that I hear is great so "This show's main protagonist sells the 'villain' into sexual slavery where she dies" and "This show's main protagonist sells the 'villain; into sexual slavery where she dies, but it's super boring" are the exact same thing to me
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Jan 3, 2019 17:46
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