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spandexcajun posted:I don't need GRRM levels of rape, but is Sanderson some super prude? He's Mormon. His writing about alcohol is totally clueless as well, but his realistic descriptions of Teft as an addict have kinda redeemed him
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Jan 10, 2019 18:54
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spandexcajun posted:Why do I read Reddit?? He is mormon, and when asked about it he says he's not very good at writing sex so he works around it. I think it's better than the way Dresden and GRRM write it though.
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Jan 10, 2019 19:11
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I kinda think that when you're struggling with crippling mental health problems and super powers and an apocalypse you kinda put your libido on the back burner? Also from a practical standpoint, not including sexual content gives you a wider audience. My 12 year old is reading Sanderson's YA stuff and loving it, but I'm waiting a little bit to give him Mistborn because of the whole thing where nobles rape and then kill their skaa workers to prevent half blood misting babies. SynthesisAlpha fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 19:22
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SynthesisAlpha posted:I kinda think that when you're struggling with crippling mental health problems and super powers and an apocalypse you kinda put your libido on the back burner? Or you gently caress your dead brother's wife
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Jan 10, 2019 19:24
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mewse posted:Or you gently caress your dead brother's wife Dalinar is like, the only character who even has time for that. Also Navani is definitely the one doing the loving. Dalinar's the fuckee.
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Jan 10, 2019 19:27
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SynthesisAlpha posted:Dalinar is like, the only character who even has time for that. There's definitely a fabrial for that.
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Jan 10, 2019 19:34
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SynthesisAlpha posted:I kinda think that when you're struggling with crippling mental health problems and super powers and an apocalypse you kinda put your libido on the back burner? Yeah, I think Kaladin is believably non-sexual for now. It's been pointed out in the books by the characters themselves. His bridgemen point to Shallan and say "Not bad!", and he asks "Not bad what?", which gets a "Not bad looking!", with implied eye rolling. Syl says he needs romance in his life and tries to play matchmaker, etc. His depression obviously crashed his libido. He's probably not "really" asexual, main characters tend to end up with love interests. But I can believe his mental issues preventing him from having a sex life. Shallan is a noblewoman and probably grew up with medieval level expectations, meaning no sex before marriage. Dalinar is totally boning Nanavi, it's just not spelled out explicitly in the text. Your mileage may vary how important realistic depiction of sex is to you. I think it fits very well in Joe Abercrombie's books, or like the Mars Trilogy books by Kim Stanley Robinson. It's not Sanderson's (or Robert Jordan's) style, and I'm okay with that. Regarding Mistborn, I think I wouldn't necessarily give them to a twelve year old anyway? They're pretty dark. At that age, I read the Belgarion books, which were considerably more optimistic.
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Jan 10, 2019 19:34
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spandexcajun posted:The goddamn "safehand" think is really grating on me. It's like hair tugging and skirt smoothing in the Jorden books. It literally adds nothing but extra words. Seems like a weird thing to be annoyed by? It's just part of worldbuilding. That's their culture. It's like how you might feel out of place if you're not a nudist and then had to go to a nude beach. For as much as I love to rag on Wheel of Time, Nynaeve's incessant braid tugging is not one of the things that irks me  spandexcajun posted:I don't need GRRM levels of rape, but is Sanderson some super prude? Sexuality is like totally absent from these books, other then the stupid safehand bs and some Victorian style allusion to the fact that sex might actually like, exist. As others said he's Mormon, for whatever that's worth. I wouldn't say the absence of sex improves the books for me, but I do agree with the general statement that sex scenes are almost universally gratuitous. He does imply a lot though: I forget if it was Kaladin or Shallan who was like "actually this is kind of nice" but one of them was having thoughts while huddled in their hidey-hole in the chasm, if memory serves. Dalinar & Navani are obviously going to pound town. Shallan and Adolin were pretty close until Pattern chipped in, "NO MATING". Besides, wouldn't a sex scene "add nothing but extra words"? SynthesisAlpha posted:I kinda think that when you're struggling with crippling mental health problems and super powers and an apocalypse you kinda put your libido on the back burner? Didn't stop Rand Al Thor 
Sab669 fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 19:41
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His Mormon readers think there's too much sex in his books The guy has done a good job acknowledging that sex exists but not being gratuitous. Yeah it's a bit spare compared to other works but he's come a long way given his repressed background.
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Jan 10, 2019 19:47
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SynthesisAlpha posted:Also from a practical standpoint, not including sexual content gives you a wider audience. My 12 year old is reading Sanderson's YA stuff and loving it, but I'm waiting a little bit to give him Mistborn because of the whole thing where nobles rape and then kill their skaa workers to prevent half blood misting babies. Yeah, this is exactly why I'm trying to get my 13 and 11-year olds to read WoT. They like reading fantasy stuff. My 13yo finished the Prologue to WoT book 1 and was like "uhhh I have no idea what I just read" lol.
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Jan 10, 2019 20:22
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seaborgium posted:He is mormon Ah, this pretty much explains the lack of sexuality. Sab669 posted:Seems like a weird thing to be annoyed by? It's just part of worldbuilding. That's their culture. It's like how you might feel out of place if you're not a nudist and then had to go to a nude beach. No, it's a perfectly reasonable thing for me to be annoyed by and this is why: It makes no sense and it is never explained or addressed. Needing Shallan to be very moderate or chast sexually and to have all noble women in the society have rules around that is fine, it mirrors things that exist in the real world. But we have cultural explanations in the real world as to why it would be gratuitous for a women to walk around topless or in a thong (breasts and butts are sexual objects in pretty much every culture, or at least most all modern ones, certainly in all the English speaking world that would be reading these books) so having to cover them up to not be overtly sexual make sense. So, why the hell is one hand sexual in this culture? Why one and not the other? Why only this culture and not others? Is that the designated handjobby hand? Like, on the wedding night does the glove come off and the bride goes to jack town? Of course that is silly as hell but since we don't get any context it's as good an explanation as any. None of this is ever addressed at all you just have to accept it and I'm 3k pages in so I don't expect it ever will be addressed. It just does not add anything at all for me, it does not build the world, it's just a thing. I can look past it be it's brought up ALL THE drat TIME!! That is why it bugs me Sab669 posted:I forget if it was Kaladin or Shallan who was like "actually this is kind of nice" but one of them was having thoughts while huddled in their hidey-hole in the chasm, if memory serves. Dalinar & Navani are obviously going to pound town. Shallan and Adolin were pretty close until Pattern chipped in, "NO MATING". This all feels like a very juvenile / adolescent (I'm sure I could think of better words, I don't mean to be insulting in anyway) view of sex, but the Mormon thing explains it well enough. Sab669 posted:Besides, wouldn't a sex scene "add nothing but extra words"? I don't need a sex scene, most all fantasy / sci fi sex scenes are terrible. But it is a missing part of what is otherwise a good, all encompassing story about some interesting characters. Again, the Mormon repression thing is a good enough explanation for me, I'll just looks past it. SynthesisAlpha posted:I kinda think that when you're struggling with crippling mental health problems and super powers and an apocalypse you kinda put your libido on the back burner? Nah, people bone down like crazy when times are tough. Recent example that portrays this well, very minor spoiler, in Birdbox the couple loving in the closet
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Jan 10, 2019 20:37
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Torrannor posted:Regarding Mistborn, I think I wouldn't necessarily give them to a twelve year old anyway? They're pretty dark. At that age, I read the Belgarion books, which were considerably more optimistic. I was reading poo poo like Piers Anthony in the 5th grade. I think Mistborn would be fine for a 12 year old.
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Jan 10, 2019 20:41
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spandexcajun posted:So, why the hell is one hand sexual in this culture? Why one and not the other? Why only this culture and not others? Is that the designated handjobby hand? Like, on the wedding night does the glove come off and the bride goes to jack town? Of course that is silly as hell but since we don't get any context it's as good an explanation as any. None of this is ever addressed at all you just have to accept it and I'm 3k pages in so I don't expect it ever will be addressed. Would it make sense for the characters to sit there and directly explain where this weird cultural thing came from, I think it comes from a bit of a twist of the cultural tradition of having 1 hand be the dirty hand and the other be the clean, aka wipe your butt(and do other dirty tasks) with your left, shake hands with the right. But this was clearly driven up into high society fashion where someone was like my pure hand is so pure you nobody can even see it, then the trend got popular and a few hundred years later you have this. Everyone else thinks it's silly and lower class people ain't got time for that nonsense except probably during mega formal occasions. It's fetishized to some degree in their society because it is forbidden, and that is inherently attractive to humans. ShinsoBEAM! fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 20:52
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You seem really hung up on sex, my dude. I will give you this, though: Now I'm curious about why the safehand is a thing
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Jan 10, 2019 21:03
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With how much they talk about the safehand, hopefully it's a Chekhov's Gun and it actually matters. The ultra-gender-specific traditions and weird warrior fetishism in Vorin culture that isn't present in the other human cultures in the world, and the lost history of the previous Desolations (and the way the whole story is a proxy war between gods) is foreshadowing there being a reason for it beyond "people maintain meaningless traditions and exaggerate them over time". It being arbitrary also seems a little blasphemous for a fairly religious author if that's where his mind is taking him.
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Jan 10, 2019 21:07
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spandexcajun posted:I don't need GRRM levels of rape, but is Sanderson some super prude? He's a Mormon, so yeah. That's also why he's bad at writing about drinking or drunk people. He's a fairly progressive Mormon, though. He even has a gay character, although he probably thinks that gay men just rub dicks together or something. [edit] Somehow missed that there was a new page, duh.
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Jan 10, 2019 21:10
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Yeah, this is exactly why I'm trying to get my 13 and 11-year olds to read WoT. They like reading fantasy stuff. Show him/her the TV pilot version with Billy Zane 
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Jan 10, 2019 21:12
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Infinite Karma posted:With how much they talk about the safehand, hopefully it's a Chekhov's Gun and it actually matters. The ultra-gender-specific traditions and weird warrior fetishism in Vorin culture that isn't present in the other human cultures in the world, and the lost history of the previous Desolations (and the way the whole story is a proxy war between gods) is foreshadowing there being a reason for it beyond "people maintain meaningless traditions and exaggerate them over time". It being arbitrary also seems a little blasphemous for a fairly religious author if that's where his mind is taking him. That'd be neat if it comes up as an actually important thing, and while I wouldn't put it past Sanderson to do that I would be surprised if safehands end up being significant in some way. I mentioned this general 'safehand discussion' to my coworker and she just goes "  Why do Jewish men wear a yarmulke" which shut me up It very well could just be "people maintain meaningless traditions because they're traditional" as you said. We definitely perpetuate a lot of behaviors that make no logical sense in the real world, so why not mirror our stupid behaviors in the book (as spandexcajun said).
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Jan 10, 2019 21:19
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spandexcajun posted:Nah, people bone down like crazy when times are tough. Recent example that portrays this well, very minor spoiler, in Birdbox the couple loving in the closet Yeah, that's true. Which is why I was specific. I think Kaladin is believably not boning anybody, because he has crippling mental issues. A lot of people with mental problems lose their sex drive due to modern medication, but some psychological disorders make any kind of intimacy extremely difficult, and I think Kaladin suffers from at least one such issue.
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Jan 10, 2019 21:26
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Sab669 posted:That'd be neat if it comes up as an actually important thing, and while I wouldn't put it past Sanderson to do that I would be surprised if safehands end up being significant in some way. From a purely analytical perspective, the "traditional" safehand in a big sleeve prevents women from participating in athletic activities and warfare, and makes them dependent on others to do physical labor. And men being illiterate prevents them from participating in scholarly activities. Hopefully there's a why for that cultural crippling of the Vorins, is what I'm saying.
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Jan 10, 2019 21:42
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spandexcajun posted:So, why the hell is one hand sexual in this culture? Why one and not the other? Why only this culture and not others? Is that the designated handjobby hand? Like, on the wedding night does the glove come off and the bride goes to jack town? Of course that is silly as hell but since we don't get any context it's as good an explanation as any. None of this is ever addressed at all you just have to accept it and I'm 3k pages in so I don't expect it ever will be addressed. The point of it, along with all the other weird quirks of the different cultures is to highlight how arbitrary so many societal norms are. The specifics really don't matter. Pretty sure one of the interludes, I think the trader girl, dives into this theme pretty explicitly.
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Jan 10, 2019 21:45
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Sab669 posted:You seem really hung up on sex, my dude. I will give you this, though: Now I'm curious about why the safehand is a thing Na, think I have a pretty normal / healthy relationship with sex and sexuality. Sanderson does not, at least in these books but that's ok I understand why now. I had no idea about the Mormon thing and that explains everything pretty well. And, like others have said, booze as well. He is like a kid writing about booze but I guess in context it makes sense. Sab669 posted:I mentioned this general 'safehand discussion' to my coworker and she just goes " I might not be explaining myself well about the safehand annoyance thing. The thing is, we could find out why Jewish men wear a yarmulke, like there are reasons for it. I'm not up on Judaism so IDK why, but I know there is a reason / are multiple reasons, regardless of if they are logical or hold up in today's world. It could be traced back (a quick Google shows a few reasons that Jews where headcovings). Probably if you are Jewish you have some understanding of this, you might even have a internal monologue about it..... especially if it was such a big part of your life that someone writing about you would mention it EVERY loving TIME they talk about you or present your point of view! I just want SOMETHING similar with the safehand thing, after 3000 pages. I figured it would have been addressed at this point and it's has not been and he constantly refers to it. I'll keep my annoyance, this safehand critic is now my hill to die on Infinite Karma posted:With how much they talk about the safehand, hopefully it's a Chekhov's Gun and it actually matters. I think it's to late to be a Chekhov's Gun at this point. Who knows, 10 years and 10,000 pages later maybe I'll discover it's some genius level HODOR "Hold the door!" bullshit. Torrannor posted:Yeah, that's true. Which is why I was specific. I think Kaladin is believably not boning anybody, because he has crippling mental issues. A lot of people with mental problems lose their sex drive due to modern medication, but some psychological disorders make any kind of intimacy extremely difficult, and I think Kaladin suffers from at least one such issue. Could be, I can see what you are getting at, but none (or at least very little) of that came across to me when I was reading.
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Jan 10, 2019 21:53
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Infinite Karma posted:I mean... Jewish dudes can tell you why they wear yarmulkes, it's part of their religious tradition that has meaning, it's not just because. Christians can tell you why they do communion or have the cross as their symbol. It's not "just because" from their perspective. I doubt Sanderson thinks real world religious traditions are stupid. Yeah, this.
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Jan 10, 2019 21:55
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Infinite Karma posted:From a purely analytical perspective, the "traditional" safehand in a big sleeve prevents women from participating in athletic activities and warfare, and makes them dependent on others to do physical labor. And men being illiterate prevents them from participating in scholarly activities. Hopefully there's a why for that cultural crippling of the Vorins, is what I'm saying. It's basically this, the Vorin church made it a big thing to justify taking shardblades away from women after the fall of the knights radiant. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/223-words-of-radiance-seattle-signing/#e6245
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Jan 10, 2019 21:56
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spandexcajun posted:So, why the hell is one hand sexual in this culture? Why one and not the other? Why only this culture and not others? Is that the designated handjobby hand? Like, on the wedding night does the glove come off and the bride goes to jack town? Of course that is silly as hell but since we don't get any context it's as good an explanation as any. None of this is ever addressed at all you just have to accept it and I'm 3k pages in so I don't expect it ever will be addressed. Its a metaphor for how we treat dumb cultural things as concrete social pillars. Remember how women showing ankles was scandalous in the English regency era? Same idea. Its also a way to have in universe sexual awkwardness while still keeping it clean of real world sexual implications.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:07
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Regarding the safehand stuff...either I'm reading it very wrong or some of you guys are just really culturally underexposed. I see it as a nice parallel to the asymetrically gendered fetishism regarding covered body parts in real world cultures. Whether you're talking legs and ankles that have to be covered by stockings or skirts, hair being covered by a bonnet or a hijab, a full fledged burqa covering everything but the eyes, modesty swim-wear, pasties, and various degrees of cuts on tops that are increasingly OK as long as they don't expose areolas/nipples, and, of course, still plenty of places where nudity in public is completely accepted under various circumstances, we have plenty of this poo poo for women in the real world, and it obviously differs greatly from culture to culture. And all this stuff would seem extremely arbitrary to someone from another culture (see other in-world cultures), and it turns out we don't typically have good reasons. There is usually an historic, often religiously motivated decency standard or initial practice that leads to the fetishism, but then the fetishism ends up reinforcing the standard, especially among the cultural elite via competitive virtue signaling. I mean, I accept a complaint that he talks about it too often, though that's probably due to him leaning on it to draw distinctions between Shallan's personalities. I wasn't a huge fan of his execution of that subplot and her development overall, so I am at least sympathetic. That said, I think it's interesting for people to be complaining about this while also complaining that he doesn't write enough about sex. His inclusion of the safehand stuff is a great bit of worldbuilding regarding sexuality that I'd much rather read than whatever sex scenes he could stomach writing. I honestly find his lack of attention to explicit sex scenes as refreshingly different from the cringey fantasy standard of the past as I do, for example, Abercrombie's use of explicit scenes to parody the old standard by highlighting the humorous awkwardness of a one-night stand, the fallout, and the reality of having members of the party loving around the campfire in front of everyone.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:10
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spandexcajun posted:No, it's a perfectly reasonable thing for me to be annoyed by and this is why: It makes no sense and it is never explained or addressed. Needing Shallan to be very moderate or chast sexually and to have all noble women in the society have rules around that is fine, it mirrors things that exist in the real world. For me, Sanderson is the kind of author who is a worldbuilder first and a storyteller second. When he starts writing a new book, he starts with the worldbuilding. From the ecology of the world, to the economics, to cultural things like the safehand, he's put those things in for a reason. See this: Space Butler posted:It's basically this, the Vorin church made it a big thing to justify taking shardblades away from women after the fall of the knights radiant. And spoiler because you haven't gotten that far in Oathbringer: Dalinar actually thinks about this when he's struggling to build the coalition of monarchs, especially with the Azish. What Sanderson's been able to do, with having those cultural values established, is show some really nice character reveals in how they react or don't react to other characters flouting those taboos. Sometimes people complain Sanderson has too much worldbuilding? He's conscious he's in love with worldbuilding and tries to ensure he strikes the right kind of balance (one of his BYU lectures on worldbuilding actually talks about this). This means things like the safehand that add flavor but aren't crucial to plot development don't get explicitly explained in text; the reader is left to think about why that culture might have a safehand. If you're into understanding more about the worldbuilding, read through the Coppermind or do a search in the Arcanum - chances are it's a question that Sanderson has already answered before. Here's also the answer for the real-world inspiration - it was not because of the clean/dirty hand thing either: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/259/#e8736 And some more about the gender divide in Roshar: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/77/#e6838 spandexcajun posted:I don't need a sex scene, most all fantasy / sci fi sex scenes are terrible. But it is a missing part of what is otherwise a good, all encompassing story about some interesting characters. Again, the Mormon repression thing is a good enough explanation for me, I'll just looks past it. Honestly I think this is a mainstream Western society thing. Because sexuality sells, it's become so explicit and in your face everywhere that when it's not, people think it's weird and that something is "missing". Like others have pointed out, his characters are not asexual - it's just that you need to pick up on the hints. I am one of those readers who prefers that Sanderson leaves it up to the reader; I'm reading his books for the story, not because I want to read erotica. I don't think seeing how characters have sex would be actually relevant to plot advancement or greater character development. If you want a more "in your face" example of Brandon writing about sex, read Warbreaker, though I doubt you'll find it to your liking either. Edit to add: Perhaps how Erikson writes about sex in Malazan would be more along the lines of what you're thinking, but if you didn't like the fact that safehands aren't explained in text, I think you'll hate Malazan, where nothing about the world is explained, ever. Leng fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 22:17
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aparmenideanmonad posted:A lot of solid points Well said. And interesting WoB coppermind links Also just throwing it out there, I honestly wanted to stop reading The Wise Man's Fear when it got to be like 200 pages of Kvothe loving Ferulian. I do think it's slightly odd to fully ignore sex (unless it's marketed to a younger audience) but I find it far more off-putting when the sex is a significant portion of the story. I don't see anything wrong with vague hints and "fade to black" kind of stuff.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:35
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Sab669 posted:Also just throwing it out there, I honestly wanted to stop reading The Wise Man's Fear when it got to be like 200 pages of Kvothe loving Ferulian. 
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Jan 10, 2019 22:42
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If safehands were just a power play by greedy nobles, and some heavy-handed social commentary, I can accept that. It's not that subtle, it's just a big wasted opportunity. I'm hoping that the consequences of that are actually a part of the story, and not relegated to internal character monologues. The safehand is a matter of vice and virtue to the main characters of the Stormlight Archive, so that actually mattering is good writing, in the sense that following or bucking those virtues would have consequences to the larger struggle of the story (as opposed to petty rivalries and virtue signaling)Leng posted:Edit to add: Perhaps how Erikson writes about sex in Malazan would be more along the lines of what you're thinking, but if you didn't like the fact that safehands aren't explained in text, I think you'll hate Malazan, where nothing about the world is explained, ever. edit: Sex, relationships, and friendship is good when it humanizes the characters. In ensemble stories, it's easy to make everyone into workhorses who only interact in terms of the plot instead of their own internal motivations. Sex scenes and attraction aren't the important part of it, it's making characters relatable, and having characters choose personal motivations over the group ones is a good way of introducing drama without having clear antagonists or idiot plots. Infinite Karma fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 22:49
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Sab669 posted:Well said. I like that Rothfuss handled sex the way Jordan handles swordfights. Give the moves silly names and let the reader interpret it. Also guys, sex in stories like this isn't about the sex, it's about how it affects the characters and their relationships. You never need to describe the sex, and you barely even need to mention it happening. There's a whole world of romance novels for your steamy descriptions of sex scenes. For an actual fantasy book, just gloss over the act and get to the consequences.
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Jan 11, 2019 00:14
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SynthesisAlpha posted:I like that Rothfuss handled sex the way Jordan handles swordfights. Give the moves silly names and let the reader interpret it. This. Sanderson could (and probably should, tbh) give stronger allusion to sexual attraction and actual sex to help ground some characters better, and generally introduce some relatability. But I am eternally grateful that he does not describe sex. So many otherwise good scifi and fantasy books shoehorn in absolutely cringey and awful sex scenes that are clearly just the author describing their fantasy. Those make it very hard to recommend a book, and in many cases can outright ruin it. It makes me happy knowing Sandersons work will never fall down that well.
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Jan 11, 2019 00:20
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Infinite Karma posted:From a purely analytical perspective, the "traditional" safehand in a big sleeve prevents women from participating in athletic activities and warfare, and makes them dependent on others to do physical labor.
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Jan 11, 2019 00:39
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I hope to hell the safehand thing is just a cultural thing and not plot relevant that would be dumb. I also hope they never explain it as that’s also kind of dumb. It’s a cultural thing and like most cultural things most people don’t know why they do it, just that it’s important to do it. How it actually started is unimportant even from a world building standpoint.
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Jan 11, 2019 00:55
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Bad Sex Award 2018
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Jan 11, 2019 01:09
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Infinite Karma posted:I wish Sanderson could take a cue from Erikson. Not about sex, but about worldbuilding. Safehands are explained in text, IMO, and more of the world should be like that. It'd be more engaging and compact storytelling, leaving more room for plot instead of exposition. in the Sanderson-writing-like-Erikson version, every character would still be at super saiyan power levels, but all we'd know about why their powers exist would be told to us by an unreliable narrator who learned it from another unreliable narrator who in turn was heavily distorting the truth for reasons that we'd only figure out 9 books later. so, not that different from what we have now, really.
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Jan 11, 2019 01:09
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I'd rather not see Sanderson emulate the guy who converted his GURPS campaign in to a labyrinthine clusterfuck of storytelling.
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Jan 11, 2019 02:19
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Evil Fluffy posted:I'd rather not see Sanderson emulate the guy who converted his GURPS campaign in to a labyrinthine clusterfuck of storytelling. I could not stand Malzan. I read the first book, it was terrible and everyone said "Yeah, it's pretty bad but after that it gets good" I read 1/2 or so of the second book IIRC like 500 pages. It was also hot garbage. This was like 10 years ago so I don't remember anything about the books but I do remember how bad they were. I could keep ranting about the safe hand thing so I will I will point out that all the examples people have given in this thread (skirts, burkas, ankles, hair covers, etc) are related to women's sexuality and the all do make sense in that they have a reason to exist (not a good reason, but A reason), they are not just relics with no meaning that came from nowhere. The meaning might be poo poo or whatever but it exists. This is what I was missing from the safehand thing, like if it's a sexuality thing, why just one hand? We don't really have any examples of one tit hanging out or one leg or whatever. If hands are sexy, they they both should be. Is it like the left hand of the devil / left hand to wipe your rear end we see in some places in the real world? They why the sexuality? But I must have missed this: Space Butler posted:It's basically this, the Vorin church made it a big thing to justify taking shardblades away from women after the fall of the knights radiant. Or brushed it over or something. This is sort of a reason and explanation. IDK how the sexuality plays into it but that's ok it's better then nothing. So, many (most?) readers in this thread made up a backstory or explained it away and did not need to question the safehands thing, or they cought on to the bit about the church that I missed. For now I'm sticking with wedding night handjob. "HMHJ" holy matrimony hand job Infinite Karma posted:edit: Sex, relationships, and friendship is good when it humanizes the characters. In ensemble stories, it's easy to make everyone into workhorses who only interact in terms of the plot instead of their own internal motivations. Sex scenes and attraction aren't the important part of it, it's making characters relatable, and having characters choose personal motivations over the group ones is a good way of introducing drama without having clear antagonists or idiot plots. What he said. I don't find these books to be just world building. I hate that. For me, I need a characters to relate to, or get mad at or watch as they do interesting things. I don't care if a highstorm wrecks up some city if I don't know anyone in that city. It does not have any meaning. The world is a interesting aspect but it is a backdrop for the characters that I care about.
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Jan 11, 2019 02:47
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Please these are just moderately cringe, don't make me pull out the troves of what I have read on kindle unlimited
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Jan 11, 2019 02:48
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Taffer posted:This. Sanderson could (and probably should, tbh) give stronger allusion to sexual attraction and actual sex to help ground some characters better, and generally introduce some relatability. But I am eternally grateful that he does not describe sex. So many otherwise good scifi and fantasy books shoehorn in absolutely cringey and awful sex scenes that are clearly just the author describing their fantasy. Those make it very hard to recommend a book, and in many cases can outright ruin it. It makes me happy knowing Sandersons work will never fall down that well. Yeah I’m really happy with the way he does it, agree with it could be alluded to a bit better but man am I sick of being yanked out of a story thinking about the author sitting there writing these terrible cringey sex scenes. I’m not a prude at all but personally I find reading terrible sex scenes not enjoyable at all (unless it’s a humour thing). If I want details I’ll go find something I’m actually into otherwise it just takes me out of the story in an unpleasant way.
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Jan 11, 2019 03:04
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