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WrightOfWay posted:It was created by archaeologists. Broken pottery is their bread and butter. Ok sure when they find themselves in an old abandoned city or whatever, but like every kind of terrain is scattered with it, IIRC there's one scene in one of the large 7 cities where someone's rooftop is covered in it, like it's been raining potsherds or someone keeps opening gates to Kurald Potterain.
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Jan 8, 2019 14:04
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thumper57 posted:Ok sure when they find themselves in an old abandoned city or whatever, but like every kind of terrain is scattered with it, IIRC there's one scene in one of the large 7 cities where someone's rooftop is covered in it, like it's been raining potsherds or someone keeps opening gates to Kurald Potterain. It was the plastic of it's day (also cardboard, but that doesn't hang around).
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Jan 8, 2019 16:29
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Gravy Jones posted:It was the plastic of it's day (also cardboard, but that doesn't hang around). The Mhybe's arc in MoI is basically a demonstration of the importance of recycling.
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Jan 8, 2019 17:09
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Also the best part of reading TtH after Karkanas is realising how full of poo poo Anomander Rake is. In BotF Rake is portrayed as a tragic figure, trying to find a way to counteract the ennui of the Andii, and gladly accepting any dishonour in order to keep the Andii motivated. But Karkanas shows that he was exactly the same even before Mother Dark rejected her children. He has a pathologic need to be self-sacrificing, and he only accepts that burden because responsibility is the only thing that gives him some kind of purpose. It's pure selfishness, and jibes really nicely with all the stuff about how blind and selfish the Redeemer really is. gently caress, Erikson is so good at layers.
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Jan 10, 2019 01:25
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quote:how blind and selfish the Redeemer really is. WHUT? Well, actually, TBH, much as I LOVE Itkovian(He's my favorite in all of Malazan and I don't see it changing), I will admit that the first song I have on my "soundtrack" for him is "Let me be your Armor" by Assemblage 23 for good reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgRHBk1K4ks I honestly think that if you push the right buttons, he could be a horrendous tyrant.  He's still my cinnamon roll though. 
Pleiades fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jan 11, 2019 |
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Jan 11, 2019 17:06
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Pleiades posted:WHUT? He's definitely believed to be selfish by mortals (and in the barrow he admits it may be accurate) in his compulsive desire to accept people's pain and guilt. Salind calls him an abomination in how by giving out unearned redemption he's giving mortals free licence to commit all sorts of horrible crimes, knowing that they'll escape punishment. I get that Erikson is wrestling with all the complicated Christian ideas of sin and grace, and as much as Salind's vindictiveness repulses me I still find her argument very convincing. I cannot remember how his arc in TtH ends, so maybe all these characters are just projecting their own morality onto him, and I might completely change my tune in a few chapters.
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Jan 11, 2019 17:57
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I did peak in TTH a bit and found that: He embraced Salind, 'killed' the Dying God, and learns from Anomandor Rake that he can redeem all he wants while leaving the judgement to others. Yea, it looks like projection, but I think the point of the Redeemer is that it's not his place/job to judge so he shouldn't have to. However, there have been complaints that this goes against Itkovian himself because when push comes to shove, he is more than capable of judgement as he did in MOI.
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Jan 11, 2019 19:03
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It just feels like a kind of clumsy analysis of universal salvation really. Some nice writing but one of the weaker arcs in TtH (coincidentally coming together at the end with the other weak one, the elemental god of Time To Count The Money I Got From Oil Death I'm Rich Bitch). It's a shame, Itkovian was really good.
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Jan 11, 2019 19:10
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Counterpoint. Itkovian was always really boring and bad.
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Jan 11, 2019 19:19
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:It's a shame, Itkovian was really good. Yup. I don't think anyone will top him as my favorite. Some say that Erickson lost his narrative in TTH. Can't say I blame them for feeling that way.
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Jan 11, 2019 20:56
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I didn't realize the redeemer and him were the same until they mentioned the imas Wasn't a big fan of that arc
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Jan 11, 2019 21:35
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Gravity Cant Apple posted:Counterpoint. Itkovian was always really boring and bad.
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Jan 12, 2019 00:37
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I'm working my way through some of Esslemont's earlier books. Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard are done, and I'm about halfway through Orb, Sceptre, Throne. NoK was okay and RotCG had enough good bits to keep me interested but may as well have been called "100 utterly unmemorable characters, 50 interesting characters we don't see enough of and Traveller LARPing as a total oval office". So far in OST I'm reminded that nothing really happened in the first half of TTH or DoD/TCG - but that I find it unlikely that Esslemont can pull of a climax as well as Erikson.
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Jan 12, 2019 01:35
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kingturnip posted:I'm working my way through some of Esslemont's earlier books. You skipped Stoneweilder and it is probably the best out of that whole series
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Jan 12, 2019 01:51
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I really liked the travel journal sections of blood and bone, that's probably my favorite bit of Esselment's writing.
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Jan 12, 2019 03:47
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Yeah I think Blood and Bone ended up being my favorite of ICE's original run, it felt the closest to an Erikson Malazan book and the setting was a lot of fun.
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Jan 12, 2019 03:59
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Clark Nova posted:You skipped Stoneweilder and it is probably the best out of that whole series It did not last.
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Jan 12, 2019 18:00
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Found the "inspiration" for Erikson's K'ell Hunters. Gotta give Erikson points for taste, he borrowed from one of the best sword -n- sorcery writers. quote:The two creatures which emerged in the gathering dusk held enormity even for the Mouser's drugged mind. Shambling things, erect like men but taller, with reptilian heads boned and crested like helmets, feet clawed like a lizard's, shoulders topped with bony spikes, forelimbs each terminating in a single yard-long claw. In the semidarkness they seemed like hideous caricatures of fighting men, armored and bearing swords. Dusk did not hide the yellow of their blinking eyes. Anyone who enjoys Erikson should definitely read at least a few of Fritz Leiber's "Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser" stories.
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Jan 13, 2019 19:35
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Coltaine > Itkovian All the heroic selflessness without the maudlin introspection
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Jan 14, 2019 03:09
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snoremac posted:Coltaine > Itkovian Possibly only because Coltaine wasn't a POV character, which was one of the best decisions Erikson made for DG.
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Jan 14, 2019 04:45
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snoremac posted:Coltaine > Itkovian Except I shed no tears for Coltaine. Sure, I was an anger noodle, but I wasn't crying. The closest I was able to get was misty-eyed and that was for other characters.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:55
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Pleiades posted:Except I shed no tears for Coltaine. Sure, I was an anger noodle, but I wasn't crying. The closest I was able to get was misty-eyed and that was for other characters. A prayer, Squint, a damned prayer. 
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Jan 14, 2019 23:13
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Pleiades posted:Except I shed no tears for Coltaine. Sure, I was an anger noodle, but I wasn't crying. The closest I was able to get was misty-eyed and that was for other characters. If you don't cry for Beak you have no claim to a human heart
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Jan 15, 2019 22:55
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pile of brown posted:If you don't cry for Beak you have no claim to a human heart Yeah, that's one of the two that hit me the hardest. With Trull being the other.
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Jan 15, 2019 23:02
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pile of brown posted:If you don't cry for Beak you have no claim to a human heart I have yet to meet Beak. I am 43% in Reaper's Gale.
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Jan 16, 2019 17:22
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Beak is a candle that burns short but very bright.
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Jan 16, 2019 18:01
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How is Dancer's Lament? The ebook is on sale but I have been wary on it, how does it stack against the other Esslemont novels? I loved the main series but the side books have been a mixed bag, and not just Esslemont. The mythological aspects of the novels was always something I enjoyed, but Forge of Darkness pulling back that shroud a bit wasn't as enjoyable as I'd hoped and if Dancer's Lament is kinda average maybe I'd rather not know the backstory.
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Jan 16, 2019 20:46
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PlushCow posted:How is Dancer's Lament? The ebook is on sale but I have been wary on it, how does it stack against the other Esslemont novels? His 2 path to ascendency books are enjoyable, but very fan wanky.
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Jan 16, 2019 20:47
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I've read the main series three times over the course of the years, but I can't even get halfway through Fall of Light. I don't know why but those prequel books just don't do it for me.
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Jan 16, 2019 20:51
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PlushCow posted:How is Dancer's Lament? The ebook is on sale but I have been wary on it, how does it stack against the other Esslemont novels? I think both ICE prequels have been pretty solid. They're not nearly as sprawling as any of the other spinoffs you mentioned and benefit a lot from the tighter focus on Dancer and Kellanved. At least for me they did not ruin or take away anything from the main series by expounding on their backstory, and there were a lot of moments especially in Deadhouse Landing that I enjoyed reading.
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Jan 16, 2019 20:59
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Thanks for the replies, I think I'll give it a shot.
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Jan 16, 2019 21:15
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Aranan posted:I've read the main series three times over the course of the years, but I can't even get halfway through Fall of Light. I don't know why but those prequel books just don't do it for me. Gotta push through. It's much better on a reread when you have all the characters and motivations mapped out. There are some excellent highs, and some middling lows, as you have already discovered. Worth sticking with it just to see what happens at Draconus' estate imo.
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Jan 16, 2019 23:31
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Pleiades posted:I have yet to meet Beak. I am 43% in Reaper's Gale.
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Jan 16, 2019 23:45
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RG really makes you wait for the Bonehunters to appear. Tons of crap with Redmask and random Edur first (my first time through, I didn't realize Bruthen Trana and Brohl Handar weren't the same person)
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Jan 17, 2019 02:45
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Yea. I mean I liked some of the scenes before the Bonehunters, but a lot of places felt a bit draggy. Clip can just vanish. Udinaas and Sendic...BOOORING. Poor Nisall though.
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Jan 17, 2019 03:32
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Redmask did his story ever go anywhere? I remember some vague prophecy that turned out to be bunk and it seemed like it was one of the few dead ends of the series. I'm sure that means I'm probably missing something...
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Jan 17, 2019 03:37
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I think the just first attempt at an alliance with humans and First Sword relationship, which sets up the last books.
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Jan 17, 2019 03:54
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Aranan posted:Redmask did his story ever go anywhere? I remember some vague prophecy that turned out to be bunk and it seemed like it was one of the few dead ends of the series. I'm sure that means I'm probably missing something... There's some commentary on Letherii society in the Redmask plot but yeah Redmask himself is a dead end. However, he helps set up the K'Chain Che'malle plot in the last 2 books. The 2 KCCM who accompany Redmask (the future Matron and Kell Hunter) wanted him to be their Mortal Sword and lead their species. Eventually, they realized Redmask wasn't fit to lead so they killed him and had to look for a new one.
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Jan 17, 2019 07:54
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dishwasherlove posted:Gotta push through. It's much better on a reread when you have all the characters and motivations mapped out. There are some excellent highs, and some middling lows, as you have already discovered. Worth sticking with it just to see what happens at Draconus' estate imo. Alcoholic doctor is the best, just booting magic nine year olds across the room. FoL does kinda drag, and the pacing is really loving weird. There's a weird time skip near the start, I had to check I hadn't fat-fingered my kindle and skipped a few chapters, but it feels like the Liosan have been around for a year or two, instead of just a handful of weeks. I really struggled to keep track of who was responding to what event and why. Although the woozy, dreamlike feel of the book does fit with the idea of war as collective insanity. Kharkanas drifts unknowingly into catastrophe, with nobody quite able to seize control of events.
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Jan 17, 2019 12:34
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Oh HAI, BEAK! You're finally here! I've heard good things about you. You have so much knowledge for someone so "stupid." So obviously powerful too. Faradan Sort chose wisely. Nobody likes you? Well, I like you.  I think you and Itkovian should get together and go bowling.44% Reaper's Gale.
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Jan 18, 2019 00:32
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