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Sounds like they're just going to try and delay the rising water. I guess in theory that's economically viable but they're just delaying the inevitable.
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Feb 22, 2019 19:34
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Tab8715 posted:Having a solid grasp on what the world will require with climate change is going to be incredibly difficult to estimate. I have no doubt about that but it's also clear there quite a few things that do stand out. Not living in a low coastal area or in Southwest Desert. Investing in tourism or real estate is going to become difficult. There's no place that is "safe" regardless of their regional suitability to climate disaster. The reason it's impossible to estimate is not the estimation of which zones will be habitable, but the myriad of social ills climate change brings. Disease: tropical mosquitoes will introduce new diseases to the US as they're increasingly able to move northward; melting glaciers may release hitherto sealed away bacteria and viruses; there's a theory, I don't want to put my hat on it I don't know enough about it, that says climate change is making people stupider, can we blame anti-vaxx on that?; dwindling resources will mean less and less medical stock, increased poverty will mean less and less access to medicine, people stricken with disease that remains untreated will of course increase prevalence of that disease in the general population War: many have argued that climate change was the spark for the Syrian war; as resources dwindle the likelihood of war increases; increased war activity is a feedback loop as war is a massive polluter and emitter of carbon; domestic terror will increase as resources dwindle; the likelihood of civil war increases as resources dwindle Poverty: food prices will go up, you will have less and less money; I don't have to state all the ways poverty kills here but you can see how it ties into disease and war, among other things, desperate people are dangerous All this and more! And maybe even some things we can't imagine!
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Feb 22, 2019 19:59
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Perry Mason Jar posted:There's no place that is "safe" regardless of their regional suitability to climate disaster. The reason it's impossible to estimate is not the estimation of which zones will be habitable, but the myriad of social ills climate change brings. Also, and this is pretty important for Tab8715 to understand as he plans on being wealthy or at least well-off and living to 2080, the more wealth inequality continues to climb and the more people start seeing real problems because of it (massive waves of the formerly middle class dying due to lack of medicine for example) the more likely there will be a tipping point where the well-off start getting murdered and their poo poo redistributed.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:05
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Tab8715 posted:Is that too high? I'm in excellent health, regularly exercise and don't generally eat garbage. I did grow up in the Midwest but have been wise enough to stop the ridiculous binge drinking. Maybe not depending on your genetics and eating habits/exercise and who knows what medical advancements there will be between now and then
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Feb 22, 2019 20:11
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Tab8715 posted:Sounds like they're just going to try and delay the rising water. I guess in theory that's economically viable but they're just delaying the inevitable. It's honestly a pretty terrible plan, it's just that no one is going to abandon a city like Miami so it's the only option they have. A few unlucky storms and there basically won't be anything that the city of Miami will be able to do to convince wealthy real estate owners/developers to stick around. The amount of money that they're going to spend in the interim is just going to make things even more difficult once things start to collapse.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:14
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Ginette Reno posted:Maybe not depending on your genetics and eating habits/exercise and who knows what medical advancements there will be between now and then I want to live to 100 (entirely possible given family history) so I can join in the year 2056 public trials of the climate deniers and the subsequent punishments.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:24
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Perry Mason Jar posted:
can't be infected by mosquito-borne diseases if all the insects are dead!
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Feb 22, 2019 20:27
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The insects we categorize as pests have earned the moniker by virtue of resisting extermination despite our best concerted efforts. Some unintentional geoengineering isn't going to get rid of those fuckers.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:29
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DrNutt posted:Also, and this is pretty important for Tab8715 to understand as he plans on being wealthy or at least well-off and living to 2080, the more wealth inequality continues to climb and the more people start seeing real problems because of it (massive waves of the formerly middle class dying due to lack of medicine for example) the more likely there will be a tipping point where the well-off start getting murdered and their poo poo redistributed. I honestly foresee the wealth continue to be accumulated to the top as the wealthy cannibalize the only semi-wealthy. It already has happened to the middle class. Only the ultra wealthy will be able to afford the national-state-free mobile oppression palaces that will be a necessity in a few decades.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:30
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Conspiratiorist posted:The insects we categorize as pests have earned the moniker by virtue of resisting extermination despite our best concerted efforts. Me, 2050: Wow can't believe mosquitoes evolved to eat RoundUp that quickly.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:31
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I think we are getting off the wrong track. My intent is not to hide from Global Warming or to determine exactly what will happen and when it will happen in the next few decades. There's simply too much data, variance, etc. to make such a prediction however the opposite also applies. We cannot and should not simply give up, throw our hands in air, that it's simply beyond human understanding and we might as well just enjoy what's left. We should at least try, see if we are able to get some understand something because there are probably a few miracles we will be able to pull off. It won't ever get everything back to normal but life might suck a bit less. The only caveat is those miracles likely won't make a profit and no one is really trying to discover outside of maybe a few billionaires like Gates. We need the US Government take Climate Change seriously and start preparing for a rapidly different world. Instead, we are just burying our heads in the sand.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:35
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Paradoxish posted:It's honestly a pretty terrible plan, it's just that no one is going to abandon a city like Miami so it's the only option they have. A few unlucky storms and there basically won't be anything that the city of Miami will be able to do to convince wealthy real estate owners/developers to stick around. The amount of money that they're going to spend in the interim is just going to make things even more difficult once things start to collapse. Another neat part about that Sinking Cities episode is that Miami's Climate Resilience Officer (might be butchering the title) pointed to luxury highrise condos as examples of climate resilience, as they're good places to ride out flooding. Insanite fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 20:37
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Tab8715 posted:I think we are getting off the wrong track. Miracles are a concept created by humans, like hope.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:39
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Shifty Nipples posted:Miracles are a concept created by humans, like hope. Completely unexpected and good things have happened through out history such as the Civil Rights Movement, Vaccinations to the personal computer. Without a doubt there are a few things that'll help but we aren't even trying if it all to discover them.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:42
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Tab8715 posted:Completely unexpected and good things have happened through out history such as the Civil Rights Movement, Vaccinations to the personal computer. Without a doubt there are a few things that'll help but we aren't even trying if it all to discover them. There's no miracle technology here that can save us - we could improve the efficiency of currently in-development CCS technologies by an order of magnitude and it'd still cost a trillion a year to try and get us to net zero emissions. Now develop them to this degree and deploy them on a global scale over the next decade. Also, we actually require net negative emissions. We already know what is to be done, we're just collectively unwilling to go through with it.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:48
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All climate change "miracles" are various forms of geoengineering so... good luck with that.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:51
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Tab8715 posted:Completely unexpected and good things have happened through out history such as the Civil Rights Movement, Vaccinations to the personal computer. Those thing required effort to accomplish, many individuals actively working together to achieve a goal. Not a thing magicked into existence. I have something to contribute for once, this is the backyard of my great-aunt/uncle's house on the southern Oregon coast.  Look at that species diversity, you too could have a yard like that depending on the climate of your residence.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:53
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I am using the word - miracle - but not in a literal sense. As in how vaccines and the personal computer were miracles. Of course, we know what we need to do and no it will not save us but do want things bad, terrible or even worse? I'd prefer least as lovely as possible.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:58
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I am pretty sure a miracle is something that happens as a result of direct action by the hand of god. 
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Feb 22, 2019 21:00
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Meanwhile in Amsterdam https://vimeo.com/249902266
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Feb 22, 2019 21:05
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Tab8715 posted:I am using the word - miracle - but not in a literal sense. As in how vaccines and the personal computer were miracles. Are you under the impression that anyone is looking at the dire consequences of unmitigated climate change and saying "this is fine actually"? The only thing stopping anyone everywhere from working to solve the crisis is what changes they're unwilling to make. I know we get into a lot of debate of individual sacrifice vs collective action (or governmental or corporate action) but ultimately we're dealing with the sum total of individual decisions - if the world is going to end anyway whyyy should I give up my super yacht? Why should I stop flying around the world to pet cats if the world is going to end anyway and corporations are unwilling to give up profits? If I sign this decarbonization bill into action we will be less competitive in global markets, and the people of my country may suffer. If I don't industrialize then my people will be poor forever. And on and on. It's tragedy of the commons. But I don't think anyone anywhere is under the illusion that nothing should be done to mitigate climate change or at least its worst outcomes.
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Feb 22, 2019 21:07
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Are you under the impression that anyone is looking at the dire consequences of unmitigated climate change and saying "this is fine actually"? Hell no. I will say that I've been reading a ton on Global Warming in the last few months and I at least understand how the public isn't taking it seriously. It's a completely different kind of crisis and one that humanity has never, ever faced and I fear it will nearly break us. Too many people view it as a traditional problem that will eventually be solved by research, taxes, laws or just building something. Thankfully, with books like The Uninhabitable Earth: Life After Warming by David Wallace we are are now finally able to communicate effectively to everyone without a ton of scientific jargon. I just wish stuff like this came out of a few decades ago. Perry Mason Jar posted:The only thing stopping anyone everywhere from working to solve the crisis is what changes they're unwilling to make. I know we get into a lot of debate of individual sacrifice vs collective action (or governmental or corporate action) but ultimately we're dealing with the sum total of individual decisions - if the world is going to end anyway whyyy should I give up my super yacht? Why should I stop flying around the world to pet cats if the world is going to end anyway and corporations are unwilling to give up profits? If I sign this decarbonization bill into action we will be less competitive in global markets, and the people of my country may suffer. If I don't industrialize then my people will be poor forever. And on and on. It's tragedy of the commons. But I don't think anyone anywhere is under the illusion that nothing should be done to mitigate climate change or at least its worst outcomes. That's a good take, what I do find interesting at the moment is the battling of what is politically feasible? For example, coal power plants are an order of magnitude worse than natural gas but that is still bad! There's oil exploration off the coast of Africa because they simply cannot afford renewable energy sources but I can't imagine telling these countries to go without electricity and revert back to sustenance farming.
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Feb 22, 2019 21:39
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I don't understand what you mean by "politically feasible". Our best hope is, with zero irony, a complete and total overthrow of the capitalist system - its feasibility notwithstanding, it's entirely feasible for you to get involved in your local communist organizations. You can steer some of the org's activity towards sustainability projects if you're so inclined.
Perry Mason Jar fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Feb 23, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 21:54
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In my daily life I strive to push the overton window towards guillotine.
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Feb 22, 2019 21:59
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Perry Mason Jar posted:I don't understand what you mean by "politically feasible". Our best hope is, with zero irony, a complete and total overthrow of the capitalist system - its feasibility notwithstanding, it's entirely feasible for you to get involved in your local communist organizations. You can steer some of org's activity towards sustainability to projects if you're so inclined. I am not going to comment on our current economic system but what I mean by "politically feasible" is - is the public willing to buy the changes necessary to the economy and our daily lives in order to hit the 1.5c target?
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Feb 22, 2019 22:08
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Tab8715 posted:I am not going to comment on our current economic system but what I mean by "politically feasible" is - is the public willing to buy the changes necessary to the economy and our daily lives in order to hit the 1.5c target? Oh dear, 1.5C? If that's your criterion then I'm gonna say no.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:10
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The 1.5°C pathway as outlined by the IPCC's SR15 requires us to cut emissions down to half the 2010 levels by 2030. Currently, what's politically feasible is business as usual YOLO 4°C here we go.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:17
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mdemone posted:Oh dear, 1.5C? Yup. We are probably looking at a degree two higher and which as been describe by South American and Indonesian Countries as genocide. 
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Feb 22, 2019 22:17
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>2°C is incompatible with modern civilization.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:19
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Conspiratiorist posted:Currently, what's politically feasible is business as usual YOLO 4°C here we go. It's an exciting time to be alive! we have front row seats at 'the restaurant at the end of the world' and all the jellyfish & slime we can eat.... yay!!
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Feb 22, 2019 22:22
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What's up the all the Jellyfish references?
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Feb 22, 2019 22:24
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Tab8715 posted:What's up the all the Jellyfish references?
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Feb 22, 2019 22:26
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At least calamari is delicious. Plus squids are smart and maybe they'll develop a civilization wiser than ours after we're gone...
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Feb 22, 2019 22:32
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porfiria posted:At least calamari is delicious. Octopus, maybe - there's a lot of curiousity there. Squids, however, are hyperfocused bags of murder so it would be business as usual.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:52
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Hexigrammus posted:Squids, however, are hyperfocused bags of murder This is delightful.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:02
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Tab8715 posted:I am not going to comment on our current economic system but what I mean by "politically feasible" is - is the public willing to buy the changes necessary to the economy and our daily lives in order to hit the 1.5c target? "Is the public willing to buy (communism)?" Communism is to the benefit of every person in the world excepting (arguably) the bourgeois minority. The victory, and sustained victory, of anti-communism has more than decimated the will (and ability) of the working class to abolish capitalism. It's unlikely that we'll see a mass revolutionary effort, and, by my best guess, when conditions have deteriorated sufficiently to engender mass revolution it will be too late. Nonetheless, it's in our best interest to foment revolution and to prepare revolutionary bodies to be at the ready for if/whenever the working class gains revolutionary consciousness. Edit: added "(and ability)" Perry Mason Jar fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 23:19
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What Country today is closest to actual textbook definition communism?
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Feb 22, 2019 23:43
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Cuba.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:56
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VideoGameVet posted:Liquid fuels created from hydrogen produced by solar/wind and carbon from the atmosphere There have also been proposals to directly power airplanes with hydrogen.
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Feb 23, 2019 00:03
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Cuba. They're are closer to a totalitarian state if anything.
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Feb 23, 2019 00:15
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