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In Toejam and Earl: Back in the Groove, the various hostile Earthlings will sometimes wave to each other and say hi. Like, "Hello, Construction Worker." The other Earthling will then respond in kind: "Hello, Naked Man in a Box." Except for the Internet Troll, who just swears back at them.
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Mar 17, 2019 14:59
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 00:06 |
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Don Gato posted:Deus Ex 1 let me blow up tons of doors back in 2000, we should bring that back. My favourite gaming experience was using the editing pack to make everything explosive. Doors, phones, plants, cameras. Everything. Terrible gameplay, but so much fun to stand at the start of a level like Hong Kong, fire off a single round and have explosions go on for 30 seconds until everything but the terrain and any invincible NPCs are just gone. FactsAreUseless posted:We should be doing a lot of stuff Deus Ex did True. It's one of those game I can just go back to over and over and always enjoy myself.
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Mar 17, 2019 15:43
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's a debug weapon they threw in to the remake for fun. It is, in fact, the players who are wrong.  Seriously tho, devs shouldn't inflict that bullshit on players. Including it in the game at all means it becomes part of the intended playspace and in a genre dominated by grinding and making numbers go up, people will get riled up over super powerful weapons like that even if the means of obtaining them is obnoxious.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:20
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John Murdoch posted:
Yeah it's really funny, I agree
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Mar 17, 2019 16:29
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Same, gently caress you Morrowind. Expecting me to get Goldbrand, be a vampire, do the quest in Ald'ruhn's Mages Guild but before talking to the quest NPC again I need to have exactly 11,171 gold to get a badass katana. Go to hell Carolina!
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Mar 17, 2019 16:29
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Putting unfun unintuitive crap in your game “as a joke” is no different than doing it intentionally in my book. Doubly so if you put a cool, fun, powerful item behind it.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:34
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Seitengrad is neither cool nor fun, and nobody is forcing you to use it. You're making the game actively worse for yourself if you get it. How is this a problem.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:36
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 "Here's my new game! The most powerful stuff is hidden behind ludicrously obscure unlock requirements." "What the gently caress is wrong with you?" "You're obviously playing my game wrong. You're the one that needs to change, not me."A big part of good game design is protecting players from themselves. Anyone who is remotely competent at game design will quickly learn that a substantial number of players will feel obligated to play in the safest, least likely to fail method possible. If you want to keep those players entertained, you need to not include "boring-but-optimal" playstyles, which includes repeatedly riding airships in the hopes that a one-in-several-thousand chance event will happen.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:46
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So what you're saying is they should put a lovely weapon behind it then.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:48
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I don't think you all have even played Final Fantasy 12. It's a game that consists entirely of optional challenges, the rewards of which scale linearly with how difficult and obscure they are, and depending on how you go about things, you conceivably do a whole lot of them at level 1 and within an hour into the game. The game is absolutely, 100% open and free for you to gently caress around in, and just because you CAN kill a giant fuckoff dinosaur from the word go [after doing three hours of prepwork], doesn't mean you SHOULD, and 99% of people playing FF12 will instantly understand this because the dino will hand their loving rear end to them. Nobody except for people who really like FF12 even know that the Seitengrad exist, and of those, only 1% will be idiotic enough to try and get it, and hopefully MOST will be smart enough to look up the RNG manipulation method some even greater weirdos have posted on the internet. Its existance is not a problem unless you remove the entire context of the game to make some weird point about games in general on the internet. Like, one could argue that "the most optimal way to play" is to get Vaan to Level 99 the very moment you gain the ability to leave town, and you can do that, and everybody else will also join at Level 99 afterwards, and the game will be super easy. Ulililia has made a video series detailing that process, and he also made another video to show how you can do the same with Vaan and Penelo, and later with Vaan, Balthier and Fran in the party. It takes about 30 hours. But you can! And then you're the highest level with the highest number! How dare the game designers not prevent the player from doing such an obviously idiotic thing by for example capping the level per story chapter? FF13 did that. And it loving sucked.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:54
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Leal posted:Same, gently caress you Morrowind. Expecting me to get Goldbrand, be a vampire, do the quest in Ald'ruhn's Mages Guild but before talking to the quest NPC again I need to have exactly 11,171 gold to get a badass katana. Go to hell Carolina! You... didn't mod in an every weapon room?
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Mar 17, 2019 16:55
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the problem is looking at it as a 'you absolutely need to have this hidden secret thing you'd not be aware of otherwise' thing instead of it being 'here's this incredibly obscure secret for some random person to stumble upon ages past release.' if you can beat the game without it and you're not missing anything concrete or content-wise by never finding it, there's no harm at all TooMuchAbstraction posted:A big part of good game design is protecting players from themselves. Anyone who is remotely competent at game design will quickly learn that a substantial number of players will feel obligated to play in the safest, least likely to fail method possible. If you want to keep those players entertained, you need to not include "boring-but-optimal" playstyles, which includes repeatedly riding airships in the hopes that a one-in-several-thousand chance event will happen. I've watched the same videos that you have and what you're missing from the discussion is that those unwanted playstyles are necessarily simple and straightforward and easy to stumble upon. If you can beat everything in the game with this sword that you start the game with without ever touching the half-dozen other systems in the game, there's an issue. Going onto a third-party website, looking at a bunch of obscure guides and spoilers for the game, and choosing to spend hours doing the exact same thing in hopes of a weapon slightly better than what's more easily available in the game is a completely different issue than that.
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Mar 17, 2019 17:04
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Reading up a bit on Zodiac Age, I'm inclined to buy it despite not finishing the original FF12. I'm not bothered by the absurdly hidden invisible bow and sword because they gave you multiple ways of acquiring the Zodiac Spear plus apparently added more endgame weapons. I loved the amount of freedom FF12 gave you in developing your characters' specializations, until you got near the end and all the (realistically obtainable) best weapons were swords, and gently caress you if you were trying to be different, I guess.
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Mar 17, 2019 17:17
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Zodiac Age is an extremely good game, but in one way the people whining about it that never even played it are correct: it does test your self-control. If you feel the need to do every sidequest and optional thing as it becomes available, you will a) get burned out severely b) get your teeth kicked in If you are able to pace yourself, can say "I will do this later when I'm stronger...or never", and accept that yes, there's still some boneheaded decisions left over from the original FF12, then it's a wonderful game where you can do exactly as much or as little you want to do. But really, again, do all of the optional stuff when it interests you, when you're strong enough for it, or never.
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Mar 17, 2019 17:21
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In The Division 2 if you’re playing with friends and they open a chest the items you would have gotten are placed on the ground so you can access them without having to interact with the chest. This also applies to ammo boxes so you don’t need to sit around waiting for all four members of your squad to get ammo.
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Mar 17, 2019 19:48
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John Murdoch posted:
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Mar 17, 2019 19:51
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The whole "OP debug weapons that you obtain by walking into a room a thousand times" is some pretty genius trolling that has passively been generating comedy for over a decade now. That said... Shin Megami Tensei 4 did pretty much the exact same thing, except instead of weapons they hid pretty much all of the post game challenge bosses this way. There were something like 10 of them, each in a different random spot, and they only had like a 1/100 chance of "appearing". I put "appearing" in quotation marks because even when they were present they were still invisible. You had to know where they were standing and then mash A in their general vicinity. I spent about 10 minutes looking for one of them and then said gently caress it and moved on.
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Mar 17, 2019 20:00
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Unravel 2: There are two features that make 2-player game play easier. If your partner misses a jump, you can hold the rope so they can just climb up to you. Also, you can put yourself into your partner's body which helps by making so that both players have only one hit box.
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Mar 17, 2019 20:07
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Mamkute posted:Also, you can put yourself into your partner's body which helps by making so that both players have only one hit box. 
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Mar 17, 2019 20:14
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Mar 17, 2019 21:15
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Trails in the Sky has snarky remarks for every chest you open in the game, and they’re all unique. It owns.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:22
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I know Chrono Trigger had chests that if you opened them at the wrong time, you'd screw yourself out of better items later. Was it the first game to do that?
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Mar 17, 2019 22:20
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RyokoTK posted:Trails in the Sky has snarky remarks for every chest you open in the game, and they’re all unique. It owns. Wasn't there a point where they were afraid of running out of Chest jests to put in the series?
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Mar 17, 2019 22:28
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HPanda posted:I know Chrono Trigger had chests that if you opened them at the wrong time, you'd screw yourself out of better items later. Was it the first game to do that? Final Fantasy VI did this before ChronoTrigger with the cave to South Figaro, which has three different possible sets of loot depending upon when in the game you grab it. I can't think of anything that predates this, but I feel like there has to be something. Edit: This was an arbitrary secret in FF6, but a bit of a puzzle you could actually figure out on your own in CT. They're special chests that you find long before you get the item that lets you unlock them, and when you do, if you examine them in the past first, it's clear you're doing something that will affect them in the future. If I remember correctly. Rollersnake has a new favorite as of 00:21 on Mar 18, 2019 |
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Mar 18, 2019 00:04
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It’s been a while but I’m pretty sure Chrono Trigger at least makes it somewhat clear
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Mar 18, 2019 00:19
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Retro Futurist posted:It’s been a while but I’m pretty sure Chrono Trigger at least makes it somewhat clear It doesn't warn you but there's at least internal logic. If you open a chest in the past there's nothing there in the future, makes sense. You can even open the chest in the future then go back and open it in the past to get both items, time paradoxes be damned.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:30
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Capcom Beatem Up Collection owns because i love half of those games and havent played the other half. Warriors of Fate has quickly become a favourite because it has a quick forward dash attack using down and jump. I was able to massacre entire armies with it so much more quickly that it now sucks that this move doesnt seem to be reused in any of the bundle's other games.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:30
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RagnarokAngel posted:It doesn't warn you but there's at least internal logic. If you open a chest in the past there's nothing there in the future, makes sense. we're talking about the black chests right? I remember them warning you on those. you cant open them until late game anyway, when you would have already seen them in the same place at different times before
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Mar 18, 2019 00:59
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RyokoTK posted:Trails in the Sky has snarky remarks for every chest you open in the game, and they’re all unique. It owns. It's all thanks to bad programming. Instead of a single addressed comment of "there's nothing here", EVERY chest had its own instance of that comment and the localization team decided to have some fun...  .Sadly Second Chapter mostly fixed that bug, but some of the higher-quality-reward chests still have unique snarky comments.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:19
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I really like how Warframe does its storytelling. Specifically, the fact that it actually back-loads any explanation of what's going on, so you only get an explanation after you've had the chance to see and experience the weird consequences of the world around you, if at all. There's a raid boss of sorts around right now that's a giant orb-spider-mech, who's constantly shouting some very confusing statements about the player-aligned population of that zone, apparently claiming to be a mother figure. You don't get a direct explanation for why this is happening, at least not for a long time, it just is. Separately, Earth's moon is gone, and nobody even calls attention to that fact. It's sort of similar to how Dark Souls has all of that story only in item descriptions, but it's a little more present than that. The world itself is throwing out hooks for you to question, in plain view, and then just... lets them hang there for most of the game. The factions you can ally with have story missions tied to them, but only at the end of your involvement with them, so you don't fully understand what's going on until then.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:36
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Tardcore posted:we're talking about the black chests right? I remember them warning you on those. you cant open them until late game anyway, when you would have already seen them in the same place at different times before
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Mar 18, 2019 09:32
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I'm in-between big games at the moment, and decided to start playing A Hat in Time, a cartoony platformer that came out some time ago via Kickstarter. Though somewhat technically lacking, especially with regards to the camera and some physics, the game itself is charming as hell. Not only that, it's got a heck of a lot of creativity in its level designs, making each level feel fresh, to the point where I want to see the next level to see what awaits. Probably my favourite is (and I've only done two and a half worlds out of four) one world that involves two bird film directors competing over a reward. There are levels that are films from one bird, and levels that are films from the other bird, and they're wildly different both in mechanics and presentation - in one, for example, I was tasked with leading a band that is constantly chasing you (and will push you into cheering crowds below) over rooftops while hitting switches and activating various pyrotechnics. In another, I was on a train where a murder occurs and I am tasked with collecting clues to accuse the murderer (spoiler: it's all fake and no one dies, you can accuse anyone you find evidence on, even yourself). There's a world where the first thing you do is lose your soul and have to complete tasks to get it back, and another that's just one big island run by the mafia (this is the most traditional of the lot, though it's still one big space that you can just explore around, with certain areas being open depending on the level you choose). Plus you switch hats to do different things, like grapple over pits or fling explosives, and you can get 'hat flair' that changes them up. My ice hat is currently a fluffly hat with ear flaps and my witch-explosives hat is candy striped. Also it describes a microwave as something you use to "punish food that has been bad." It's just a lot of fun to play, even though sometimes I'm fighting with some minor technical issues that come with being made by a small developer on a tight budget. I hear people disparaging Yooka-Laylee a lot, and it's a shame that this game couldn't get the same kind of coverage that game got, because it feels much more like what people wanted out of their Banjo-Kazooie rebirth.
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Mar 18, 2019 14:38
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I’m basically done with the Re2make, but it still hits me how well they timed the triggers for voices lines and reactions. If a particularly robust zombie is bearing down on me and my shots don’t seem to stun it, me and Leon will simultaneously go “gently caress”
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Mar 18, 2019 14:42
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In Devil May Cry 5, Dante has an air taunt where he tosses a rose while posing. If the rose lands on an enemy that can be staggered, it'll launch them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOKeFmRIdw4 But it also does a minuscule amount of damage. 
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Mar 18, 2019 15:55
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I just fought my first super mutant behemoth in Fallout 3 and I liked that Dogmeat's AI is good enough to make him run away when he got his rear end kicked by it.
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Mar 18, 2019 17:06
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FactsAreUseless posted:You're using phrases like "intended playspace" to sound like you know what you're talking about but you might as well be angry that the "optimal" way to play an RPG is to grind up to max level at the start. But RPGs regularly disincentivize doing that through some method or another, usually diminishing returns on XP. You're also never not climbing towards max level just by playing the game anyway. All that said, yeah, RPGs should probably reduce rewards to zero after a point to discourage that type of obsessive grinding. My problem is squarely with the implementation in this case. A 1% chance of an already-invisible and therefore hidden chest spawning followed by a similarly small chance of actually containing anything is an equally abusive and pointless slot machine with a terrible payout. If 99.9% of players will never engage with it at all, either knowingly or unknowingly, and the last 0.1% will have a miserable and tedious time of it then at best it might as well not exist and at worst actively detracts from the game. JRPGs already do the whole extra-hard bonus boss thing and I've generally got no problem with those. Similarly if it was literally just a cheekily-placed invisible chest somewhere that would be more palatable (though I can't shake the image of some sad soul pressing the interact button on every inch of empty space in the game). But horrible drop-rate bullshit is rotten as hell and one of my least favorite mechanics to begin with; suffice to say I'm rather sensitive when it comes to gambling-esque poo poo and its effects on people with compulsion issues or who are otherwise non-neurotypical.
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Mar 18, 2019 18:21
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OTOH with Chrono Trigger, that's a game that's meant to be replayed to try different things/take out Lavos in different eras, so stuff like the chests not being "fair" works from that perspective, it's something new to check next time
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Mar 18, 2019 18:39
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It's also definitely the case
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Mar 18, 2019 18:44
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I like the bow in FFXII remake because it's like those old schoolyard arguments. "Yeah I have this invisible bow that's better than any weapon" "bullshit that doesn't exist" and then it's actually true. Somebody accidentally stumbles upon a secret the devs slipped in as an Easter egg/joke at their own expense, and the way you find it means you'll have to either show somebody your save file or record footage of it. Even then, some people would call bullshit unless they recreated it themselves. It's wonderful
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Mar 18, 2019 19:01
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 00:06 |
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's all thanks to bad programming. Instead of a single addressed comment of "there's nothing here", EVERY chest had its own instance of that comment and the localization team decided to have some fun... It's been patched since release, all chests in SC have comments now. 3 too I think, if that was in question.
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Mar 18, 2019 19:05
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