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quote:3 * (for more about the Heart Sutra, check here for line-by-line analysis) quote:After leaving Koujirou's house, while walking along the mostly-empty street, Shimada stretched flamboyantly with his arms crossed behind his head. The action made his thin body, covered by a black sweater, look even more lanky than before. ------------ As long as I'm updating fast, small updates don't matter, right? Just take 'em as I make 'em! I feel suspicious that I wrote it really fast and then barely changed anything on a readthrough, but whatever. That just means I'm a genius I couldn't find anything about an actual restaurant named Mother Goose in Beppu by the way. That doesn't mean it's definitely not based on some rando shop that doesn't have an online presence or, you know, isn't there anymore but most likely it's made up by the author, which means the name is very deliberate. I'm ready for the mother goose puzzles, Ayatsuji! Idk what to say about the random reference to VERY specific Buddhist writings, except that it makes me scared (yet again!) for the complexity of this book's setup. It keeps on establishing random stuff, like mahjong/card tricks/mother goose/moon myths/cigarette brands/historical references to sakura and idk which ones will come into play. My biggest fear is that they all will.... Seriously though, could it be possible that the lengthy discussion about flower references in classical poetry was just completely irrelevant filler? Either it was, which makes no sense considering the writing style so far, or it wasn't which means what the gently caress does it mean?? I don't think I'll stop freaking out about this until stuff starts coming together. Oh yeah also I'm pretty sure sanskrit is the language of Buddhist texts, right? So that's at least one vague connection to Ellery talking about the sanskrit word for moon. TalkLittle posted:Refresher on their school class years: Very helpful reference! Note: Carr is the same age as Poe though. He started school late. I'm also not really sure what is meant by "science" for Van, since like... medicine and pharmacology are also science. That's also kind of why I worded it like "student in the science department" instead of "science student" which doesn't really mean anything lol.
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# ? Mar 31, 2019 22:54 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 22:47 |
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Wow, that was a lot of updates since I last looked! So: - Someone claiming to be Nakamura Seiji is sending letters accusing the mystery club members of killing Nakamura Chiori. - Seiji could be alive, since he supposedly was covered in kerosene and burnt to death - perhaps the body wasn't really him? - Koujirou claims he identified the body, but we have no particular reason to trust him. And the fact that he has a letter proves nothing. Hell, he could be writing them himself. - Kiyoshi asks about the spelling of Kawaminami's name, which implies he didn't know it before and thus couldn't have sent the letter, but that could be a double-bluff. - Kiyoshi specifically tells Kawaminami that Koujirou has a word-processor, which could be an attempt to plant suspicion. Edit: Wait, hang on: quote:Koujirou took the letter and ran his eyes over the neatly spaced letters of the address information. Suddenly, his eyebrows jumped up and he looked back to Kawaminami. "Yes, come on in. I have a friend over, but please pay him no mind. I live alone, so I apologize for the lack of hospitality." Kiyoshi saw the letter -- shouldn't he have seen Kawaminami's name on the envelope? Or is it not common practice to write names along with addresses in Japan? Or is this meant to be a signal to us that the letter was written by someone who didn't know Kawaminami's name? The_White_Crane fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Apr 1, 2019 |
# ? Apr 1, 2019 14:43 |
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The_White_Crane posted:Wait, hang on: I think you might have hit on something here. Idk about common addressing practices in Japan, but there is a conspicuous lack of any mention whatsoever of the addressee's name being on the envelope. I would say that means the envelope simply didn't have a name written on it, except for one thing. A letter presumably also went to Hajime's house, and when Kawaminami asked for a "letter addressed to Hajime" his mom found it. If there was no name on the envelope, I assume the mom would've already opened it, since it came to her house. Assuming Shimada isn't asking a redundant question , the only other explanation I can think of is that Kawaminami's name was written phonetically on the envelope. Which means possibly the sender doesn't know how to write the kids' names? edit: There's another possibility, assuming this is something Hajime's mom would be privy to. Maybe the letters were addressed to the kids' club nicknames. Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Apr 1, 2019 |
# ? Apr 1, 2019 17:11 |
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onsetOutsider posted:Assuming Shimada isn't asking a redundant question , the only other explanation I can think of is that Kawaminami's name was written phonetically on the envelope. Actually it may just be that: quote:Shimada Kiyoshi explained, bouncing up from the rocking chair. Then he practically skipped over to Kawaminami's side and handed over the letter he'd been scrutinizing, and asked "Kawaminami, eh? How do you write that?" The way the question follows immediately after the line about him handing over the letter kind of implies that the letter prompted the question.
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# ? Apr 1, 2019 17:53 |
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quote:4 ---- This update was really loving long and dense so I'll do name stuff later. Also I didn't entirely read through it because jfc it's long. Please alert me to embarrassing mistakes. (edit: actually I'll mention one name thing though. The kita in Kitamura means NORTH goddamnit. I'm so done) This section is our official debriefing on the 1985 event. We had the gist of it before, but now we have a lot more concrete info to go on. Let's get to solving! Well, to be honest the gardener probably did it. It makes the most sense. Occam's razor and all that. One more comment before I forget. It's really funny how that poo poo about secret passageways kind of just frickin spits in the face of Knox's rules. Yes my commentary is really sparse here but do you see how loving long that update was?? Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Apr 4, 2019 |
# ? Apr 4, 2019 02:09 |
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I'm really curious about the methods of death. So everyone was drugged, the wife was violated,strangled and then her hand was cut off, the servants were tied up and then hit with an ax and then Nakamura was killed last, being doused with kerosene and burned where the killer then burned the whole mansion down. Why burn everything down if you've killed the victims in a different way? Getting rid of evidence? Also there is so much time between the killings and the victims having ingested equal amounts of sleep medicine that it lasted till Seiji was dealt with, is a detail that I can't get out of my head.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 05:29 |
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quote:The number of bodies discovered was four. Due to the fire they were all completely blackened, so the identification process was difficult, I heard. This line is suspect to me. Although the police were able to identify them and the killing methods in spite of the charring - was there some detail of the bodies covered up by the fire? Is the police report possibly faulty? TV Zombie posted:Also there is so much time between the killings and the victims having ingested equal amounts of sleep medicine that it lasted till Seiji was dealt with, is a detail that I can't get out of my head. Agreed. Assuming a single dose of medicine, Nakamura Seiji would have likely either: been awake during the previous murders and put to sleep before his own death, or slept through one or more previous murders and was awake during his death.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 08:51 |
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Some thoughts: I've been super "suspicious" of Shimada this whole time, but idk what I'm suspicious *of* since he definitely isn't, like, about to go on a boat to Horned Island and murder some kids, right? But I get this really weird feeling about how randomly excited he is to hang out with Kawaminami (and he totally controls where they go to eat and stuff), and also how many details he knows about the 1985 case. Like, you could chalk it up to him being friends with Koujirou, but still. Also he is extremely forthcoming about almost everything, like going on huge spiels when Kawaminami didn't even ask him for details, so it draws my attention to the times when he's extremely brusque with his responses. Most notably when he is super vague about how he knows Koujirou. Something isn't sitting right with me there. From what Shimada said, Koujirou is 43 or 44. And from looking at him Kawaminami estimated Shimada's between like 31 and 35-ish. Even if he's 39 the years don't really match up with knowing each other in school, do they? Also he's just loving weird lol. TalkLittle posted:Although the police were able to identify them and the killing methods in spite of the charring - was there some detail of the bodies covered up by the fire? Is the police report possibly faulty? TV Zombie posted:Why burn everything down if you've killed the victims in a different way? Getting rid of evidence? I'm almost positive this is the case. The killer must have wanted the scene to be completely un-investigatable. Tbh I'm surprised the police were even able to get the information they did, considering the state of the house now. Like how do they even know where everyone was killed? TV Zombie posted:Also there is so much time between the killings and the victims having ingested equal amounts of sleep medicine that it lasted till Seiji was dealt with This fact is also suspicious to me. There are a ton of inconsistencies. On the one hand, there wasn't even any evidence that Seiji was tied up, yet the police included it in their reconstruction, but why would the killer have to tie him up if he was asleep the whole time, as they concluded? Also, they said Seiji was doused while he was still asleep, meaning the theory of "the killer had to ask him where the money was" is out, plus if they were all drugged at the same time then clearly the killer intended to murder them all from the start. So that's both of the explanations for "why leave Seiji for last" that are wrong according to the police reconstruction. But then on the other hand, if they were drugged at different times, then what the hell was going on during those 2-3 days, and why did the killings last so long? And what's with that loving hand! Why cut off the hand? I'm also wondering about the weapon used to kill Kazue, since the axe was discovered, where's the cord-like object?
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# ? Apr 5, 2019 21:16 |
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Alright, let's do names before I start on the last section of chapter 2 (even tho these new ones prob aren't even that important, but for completion) Yoshikawa Seiichi: The [kawa] is not the same as Kawaminami's name, but it *is* the word for river, the more common one. [yoshi] means good luck. The [sei] is not the sei from Seiji, it means truth/honesty. And the [ichi] is the symbol for the number 1. Just like Hajime's name. Kitamura: Well okay this one is probably important considering all the blatant directional names we've gotten so far w Kawaminami and Higashi. The [kita] means north. The [mura] is the same as in Nakamura, just the word for town and also super common in names. Hanabusa: This name evokes blooming flowers. Morisu: This is the only one of these names that's not in my phone's autocomplete, meaning it's not super common. If I have to give it a meaning it basically means "must protect".
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# ? Apr 6, 2019 02:56 |
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quote:5 * quote:"I don't know what they were hoping for, but I'm pretty sure it's a tasteless prank," Morisu said, comparing the two letters lined up on the table. "They wrote "you guys", so I had a feeling I wasn't the only one they sent it to." END OF CHAPTER 2! Every time I'm not spending 20 minutes per page I feel like I'm translating too fast and it's coming out super lovely. It's probably just unfounded worries. Hopefully. Also, geez the conversations jump from one topic to the next so fast in this book! They're seriously pared down to only the essentials of what we need to hear. edit: oh yeah, we got Morisu's given name Kyouichi. This is the third name with the character for 1 in it, which is, like, that's a common kanji in names but it's still suspicious. The [kyou] kind of means respect. 2nd edit: oh crap I wrote Shimada calling Kawaminami by his actual name! That is a cardinal sin! I've edited them all back to Konan now I think. --------- Organizing data from the 2nd chapter: Technically, there weren't even any mysteries introduced in the first chapter because nobody has died yet, but chapter 2 introduces a whole hecking lot of complicated mysteries. Three to be exact. 1) Chiori's death 2) Mysterious letters 3) 1985 Horned Island Murders 1 - Chiori's death We have no testimony yet from anyone who was there at the time of her death. Supposedly she died from drinking too much? Also they continuously bring up that it was the "third party" which I guess means that they went out after the official party, and then went out *again* after that? Why has nobody mentioned the 2nd party yet aka the first afterparty? Notably, we also don't know why Kawaminami and Morisu left the party. Several times it was brought up with a vague "he had something to do". (Also quitting the club a couple months after a girl dies makes me think it was more than just "the club wasn't right for me" or whatever) I find it strange that none of the kids in chapter 1 mentioned Chiori at all. Maybe it's like the elephant in the room? Maybe they didn't know Chiori's real name and never made the connection? Speaking of which, could either of the girls be currently wearing Chiori's old club nickname...? Well, actually there probably were a couple Chiori references in chapter 1, that I pretty much only caught when rereading since I already had knowledge of Chiori's existence. Mainly, the conversation between Carr and Poe when Carr starts drinking, where they are most likely talking about her death nigh-explicitly. There's another line in section 1-3 that has a completely different meaning in hindsight, and is kind of genius now that I think about it. I'd completely forgotten about the line, but when rereading it totally stood out to me. This line from Orczy's perspective: "It was impossible to ignore that Agatha and herself were the only women among their group of seven. That fact was a weight on her heart that she couldn't escape." Orczy is probably feeling sad about Chiori's death, rather than my initial assumption which was that she was angsting over not being as feminine as Agatha. 2 - Mysterious letters My main thing is, after we find out who sent the letters, what the gently caress does that even matter? It's not illegal to send letters like that, and I doubt any of the mainland people have time to go back and forth to Horned Island to kill a bunch of people. Unless one of the island kids sent them out before leaving? That's possible too, but then the question of "why" comes up again. We know that K University has lots of word processors you can use, so it's impossible to narrow down who had the ability to write the letters. It might be important to remember that we don't know anybody else got letters besides Kawaminami, Morisu, and Higashi (well, if we go one step further we don't even know Higashi got one if his mom was lying for some reason). We also don't know Higashi's letter said the exact same thing as the other two. Note that if the sender was one of the island kids, they'd have to know that the majority of letters wouldn't even be seen by their recipients. So whoever wrote the letters typed one up and then copied the rest. Is it significant that Kawaminami got the original? It also wasn't stated that Morisu's letter was B5 size. Maybe the copies are differently sized than the originals? Is this even important at all? 3 - 1985 Murders See section 2-4 for all the details. When I think about what relevance the solution to last year's murders might have on the murders happening soon, my first dumb thought is that the culprit of the old murders was somehow one of the island kids, and they're also the killer this time. Idk how that would be possible though lol, unless they snuck onto the island as a 5th person. Or one of them is secretly Yoshikawa Seiichi. I still think the "Seiji is alive" theory holds water despite the narration stating in no uncertain terms that he died, because it was in the context of explaining the police's conclusions, and not necessarily stating objective truths. I seriously doubt all of that information will turn out correct. Since I'm already so suspicious of Shimada, that mutual alibi with Koujirou doesn't convince me much at all lol. 4 - Misc Is Shimada related to that fisherman from chapter 1?? They are both described as dark-skinned!! Maybe the fisherman is one of this older brothers?? Tatsumi means southeast lol. Just saying. Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Apr 6, 2019 |
# ? Apr 6, 2019 08:17 |
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Given the floor plan on page 1, if Morisu did get invited to go to Horned Island...where would his room be in Decagon House? There's no space for him. I wonder if the hand is significant in Japanese culture in that you need a fingerprint to access or legalize documents though I have to believe that this may be red herring. The Janitor's disappearance still bothers me since ...weren't the waves choppy going to the island? If he was planning to kill everyone, he'd need a means of escape but that hasn't been sussed out at all. How'd he get another boat on the island? We only know Kawa and Mori's side of the story regarding that drinking party. I wish we had corroborating or conflicting stories from other people that were at the party. Also, leaving a club because of a death hints at something more than not being a good fit at a club.
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# ? Apr 7, 2019 07:25 |
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About the boat, couldn't someone have come and picked up a survivor from the water? Or temporarily tied a second boat to the other docked boat maybe? I think there is a high chance of an accomplice in the 1985 murders.
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# ? Apr 7, 2019 10:25 |
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Why is no one considering the possibility of murder-suicide for the Blue Mansion mystery? It's the first thing that comes to mind.
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# ? Apr 7, 2019 16:33 |
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Why is no one considering the possibility of murder-suicide for the Blue Mansion mystery? It's the first thing that comes to mind. Actually, this comment got me thinking about the line earlier in chapter 2 when Kawaminami looks at a newspaper article and ruminates 死者の告発、か which I'd interpretted as "prosecution of the dead" aka "posthumous conviction" which would make sense if they thought Seiji did it (which I also think is possible). But thinking about it, the police believe the gardener did it, and apparently they think he's still at large. So I curiously looked up the term, and found a novel of the same name (older than this one actually) wherein a murdered person appears in someone's dream accusing someone else of killing them. In other words the more accurate interpretation would probably be "prosecution BY the dead". In light of this I've edited the translation, but more importantly that brings up even more questions, since K never elaborated on what the newspaper meant by that. Could it have been a threatening letter back then too? Or maybe a name written in blood (tho idk how that would survive a fire). Heck, maybe someone had a prophetic dream. I'm confidant that the corrected translation is more accurate, but I'm as confused as ever.
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# ? Apr 7, 2019 18:51 |
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FWIW I think your translations are actually getting better. I haven't really seen anything I'd bother suggesting changes for in ages, so you might just be getting faster with practice. Also: Kawaminami > Can be read as Konan > Nicknamed Doyle.
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# ? Apr 8, 2019 15:03 |
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quote:Chapter Three quote:1 This stuff about Orczy's connection to Chiori is making me a bit worried about... that she sort of has a motive to kill the other six now. I really like her character so I don't want her to be bad. Well, I also don't want her to be killed. Hmm. quote:2 So, it's probably not all that suspicious to put those sinister boards out in the first place, but not telling anybody about it makes the whole thing like 10x creepier. I still don't think I'd jump to "one of my friends is planning a serial murder" though. I also think it's weird that the boards weren't, like, on everyone's doors or something. They're not even directly saying that specific people will die, they're just... there. Being ominous. Ellery is all over the loving place in this section and I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. I think he 100% didn't make the boards, because if he did he would have been more organized. Based on how he's acted so far, he loves to be in the spotlight and controls the conversation 80% of the time, and he continues to do so now. But he always had a clear purpose behind his ramblings. Here he seems pretty drat taken aback, as his questions are super circular, he repeats himself several times, and kind of appears to get it together towards the end but it comes across super forced. Almost like he's trying to not freak out. We know he's scatterbrained but it's like turned up to eleven in that last part even when he's trying to be analytical. The only other person I have a read on is Orczy, because she's also 100% not the "board culprit" unless the narration was extremely unreliable in the first section. Or unless she loving made them while sleepwalking, which would be.... dumb.
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# ? Apr 10, 2019 08:18 |
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Immediate question: why do none of them suggest dusting the boards for fingerprints? They're seven hardcore mystery buffs, the idea that not one of them thinks of that seems strange.
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# ? Apr 10, 2019 11:20 |
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The_White_Crane posted:Immediate question: why do none of them suggest dusting the boards for fingerprints? i don't think they have the resources for that. also, quote:when in the end forensic technology saves the day, I just don't feel like clapping. Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Apr 10, 2019 |
# ? Apr 10, 2019 21:37 |
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Of the seven boards, there is the Detective board. Is this to suggest that killer has planned for one person to remain alive once he/she is left with the final person? The theme of games seems to be hinted at throughout the book so far...that, that has me curious.
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# ? Apr 11, 2019 06:34 |
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Mr. Steak posted:i don't think they have the resources for that. You can do it with a pencil and some sticky tape; It's not a difficult process - I did it when I was ten. I'll grant you it won't provide as clear a print as a proper forensics kit, but it'd certainly be good enough to be worth a try.
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# ? Apr 11, 2019 09:15 |
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The_White_Crane posted:You can do it with a pencil and some sticky tape; It's not a difficult process - I did it when I was ten. That's a good point. But to be fair all that's happened is some plastic poo poo with creepy implications. They're probably shaken up, but nothing about it screams "must perform criminal investigations". Even if that's a fear on their minds, actively doing something like that would probably make it feel way scarier for them, so they'd prefer to believe it's a prank. Tbh, there is a detailed account of who's touching the boards so far, so maybe they'll think of something like that in the future? Then again, every drat detail in this book sounds like foreshadowing, so who knows.
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# ? Apr 11, 2019 10:20 |
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Sometimes the hardest thing about mystery games and books is telling apart the relevant information and the misdirection.
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# ? Apr 11, 2019 20:03 |
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quote:3 * quote:"Alright, let's continue," Poe said in a deep voice, plopping down on the floor. * quote:In the hall, having finished tidying up from lunch, Agatha and Orczy poured some black tea and took a short rest. * quote:Sitting on the dock they'd come in from, Ellery watched the colors of the dark water with an intense determination. -------- Unorganized thoughts: -Possible importance of the puzzle? - it's on the ground. maybe a murder happens in Poe's room and the killer tripped on it or something. Maybe a puzzle piece found in an incriminating location. -A puzzle the size of a tatami mat (almost)? That's a loving big puzzle! -Somehow the 5 fox cubs make me think of the 5 victims... (Even though it wasn't a puzzle, why am I thinking about that painting at the end of Battle Royale...?) -"This isn't a novel" - There it is, boys! Pack it in! -"Those were her true feelings." Orczy confirmed not the culprit? Post-section thoughts: So this is really the part when we can start trying to get reads on people. Here's my take... (gee it's like i'm playing mafia right now) Orczy: 100% innocent I'd be extremely loving shocked if she did anything, based on the facts confirmed by narration so far. Ellery: 85% innocent What I said last time, and also his behavior in this section just strengthens my belief that he's really shaken up by the boards. Leroux: 70% innocent He seems genuinely offended by the ideas Ellery is putting forward. Agatha: 50% innocent I get weird vibes from her sometimes, but I'm still not sure. Poe: 50% innocent He mostly comes across as a super cool chill guy, but there's also not much in his defense. Van: 25% innocent He's had unbelievably huge opportunity to set up poo poo, and there's still leeway for him to be faking the sickness I think. Carr: who loving knows Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 13, 2019 |
# ? Apr 12, 2019 13:25 |
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How does Van fake the fever if Poe is checking the thermometer? The tiles with the naming of Victims, Detective and Killer, when paired that with the letters sent out to people accusing them of murder would require a fair amount of dedication. Since we don't know how the others feel about Chiori's death, I don't think you can eliminate Orz as not being the potential killer as she seems really affected by Chiori's death.
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# ? Apr 15, 2019 20:44 |
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quote:4 END OF CHAPTER 3 @TV Zombie: Well, what I meant before about Van faking the illness was like, the thermometer was under his shirt for a lot of their conversation so idk maybe he tampered with it. They are just bringing it up so drat much that I'm trying to find any possible way it could be a trick. That said, the actual forehead touch in this section throws a wrench in that lol. Also my case for Orczy's innocence is more that we literally followed her as she discovered the plastic boards, and the narration explicitly said she didn't recognize them. So I think there'd have to be some kind of fuckery with that scene if Orczy actually did it. I like Poe's idea but unfortunately we all know he's wrong. I'm interested in lines like "everyone was taken in by Poe's theory" because that has to also include the culprit, right? From a "narration is undeniable truth" standpoint, it's curious. This section didn't have very many suspiciously out of place details, but the specific measurements of the decagon's interior angles make me scared for potential math puzzles. Just one more chapter (shorter than this one) before I'm caught up to where I read to Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Apr 16, 2019 |
# ? Apr 16, 2019 12:49 |
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Mr. Steak posted:"What're you in such a hurry to do all alone in a dark room?" Car grumbled in a low and pointed voice. Van's hand stopped midway to reaching for the doorknob, and he turned to face Carr. Typo there: "Car". Though he pairs well with Van.
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# ? Apr 16, 2019 16:36 |
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The_White_Crane posted:Typo there: "Car". lmao thanks
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# ? Apr 16, 2019 16:37 |
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Agatha bringing all the drinks from the kitchen makes her suspicious. That could be offset by Van faking sickness, but then Agatha might need to be playing along with the forehead touch. Or Van could really be sick, and someone is using misdirection focusing on Van while someone else is being drugged. Carr was the first to go to bed right? Sulking and stomping off might indicate he's frustrated but also that he might be tired and body heavy from sleeping medicine.
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# ? Apr 16, 2019 21:59 |
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quote:Chapter Four quote:1 I wonder if this is meant to imply that Shimada is not a Watson or a Lestrade but a Moriarty. quote:2 * quote:Shimada and Kawaminami were lead to a dim tatami room. -------- (Yes I am pretentious for using the word prevaricated. I acknowledge that.) I'm kind of too lazy to map out a route on a map for the opening section, but I may do so later if it seems it'll be important. It's entirely possible to do so on your own though (google maps is all translated), so if you're into that I encourage you to try it. Just search up Oita prefecture and zoom in on the north half of it. All the stuff is right there.
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# ? Apr 20, 2019 14:09 |
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Characters mentioned here: Yoshikawa Seiichi (gardener) Yoshikawa Masako (gardener's wife) Nakamura Seiji (Horned Island husband) Nakamura Kazue (Horned Island wife) Nakamura Koujirou (Chiori's uncle / Seiji's younger brother) quote:"Yes. I am very much in his debt. I'm sure you already know this, but before I married Yoshikawa, I also worked at the Horned Island mansion. I started there at the same time Seiji started living there. That was the first time Koujirou and I were acquainted...." Does it mean anything she refers to her husband using his surname, Yoshikawa, and not given name? Or is that typical. quote:"Did Koujirou ever visit the island?" Koujirou - Masako relationship quote:In that way, the Madam was quite doting on her daughter." Chiori is Kazue's biological daughter, not Seiji's? If Koujirou was involved with Masako, and Seiichi the gardener was incapable of adultery/murder, that leaves the servant man who people haven't been talking about lately. Chiori was actually Servant Man's child? Seiji has no money, then these affairs seem like probably the motive for 1985. I feel like knowing the servants' names and the main cast's real names will solve the mystery.
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# ? Apr 20, 2019 22:19 |
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I just found read through this whole thread this evening -- what a fun project! I find it interesting that apart from Orczy, none of the club members seem to be aware that the Chiori they knew was the child of the man whose house they are currently staying in. Surely some of them would put two and two together? On a different note, the gardener arrived on the 17th, and rang his wife to say this: quote:"He sounded the same as ever. Though, he did mention that the Madam was beset with illness." Kazue died between the 17th and 18th, so potentially she was already dead at this point or at least drugged, and Seiji was aware and covering it up. I definitely think that we're going to find out that the corpse of "Seiji" is actually the gardener, but I don't have any evidence for that except that the bodies were burned and difficult to identify. I am also deeply suspicious of Shimada, and Koujirou too since Shimada is his alibi.
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# ? Apr 21, 2019 13:50 |
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quote:3 * quote:They got on the highway towards O City. Sorry for the short update, but the next one's pretty long and I don't want to have a whole week between updates if I can help it. It is still unclear to me how exactly Shimada drew the conclusion about Kou having an affair with Kazue from the fact that he stopped visiting shortly after Masako stopped working there. I'm wondering if we can assume from the information we have, that Masako left the island at about the same time Chiori did. Masako remembers Chiori's face, but relies on her husband's info to say that she visited the island rarely after leaving. Hmm... maybe Koujirou was only visiting before to see his(?) daughter...? Oof, if that's the case then it'd make him way more suspicious of sending those letters. Then again, the phrasing makes it seem like Masako left before Chiori did. Maybe it was Chiori's birth that drove a wedge between Koujirou and Seiji... Then again maybe Shimada is just bullshitting this whole thing. edit: I really appreciate how the mystery is so (apparently) connected to interpersonal stuff as opposed to being like a bunch of robots murdering each other. Also it's cool how deep the mystery is before anybody's even died yet Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Apr 25, 2019 |
# ? Apr 24, 2019 23:23 |
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I feel like we need a character sheet for this book because I'm getting confused about ages and the like. Something that bothered me in the last update is the locked doors yet light being on in Kou's house. Given that the latest update seemed to indicate that the time was around 10:40. Unless Kou is an older man, I can't imagine anyone going to sleep earlier then that. Who leaves the lights on when they sleep? Is this a cultural thing? Given that he may have been one of the people able to identify the bodies (from what I remember someone else posted/mentioned?) that were heavily burned and that he didn't answer his door, I have to believe that Kou is dead or will be dead soon.
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# ? Apr 26, 2019 05:37 |
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quote:4 * quote:Naturally, they had no way of knowing. END OF CHAPTER 4 And with that, the 2nd day is over! FINALLY, tomorrow, we're gonna be facing a live murder. And also I'm finally pretty much blind now except for the fact that someone dies in the next chapter (cuz I glanced ahead). That means I'll probably start putting more extensive live reaction thoughts at the end of each update. Cuz I'll be reading blind while I translate, and having opinions. We also now have the fullest picture of the 1985 murders and all the theories around it. Here are my thoughts. -Ayatsuji is making it pretty much impossible to "meta-game" this with reasoning like "oh, the text is trying to lead me in one direction so it's clearly the other one" because he's just blatantly laying it all out on the table clearly. -If we're placing official bets, I'd say that it's quite likely that the "Seiji" corpse has some sort of identity trickery to it, but whether that trickery was done by Seiji or not, I'm less sure of. Maybe the servant man who nobody's really talked about? -I'm positive the 3 day gap will be important but I can't think of how. Same with the missing hand lol. That's part of why I like this 1985 mystery so much. There are parts that are blatantly suspicious but you can't connect them easily. -There are also so many moving parts when it comes to the people involved and their relationships. I love how the question of a child's parentage can be so crucially relevant in this way. List of essential questions: The letters: Who/Why? (I think Koujirou is a likely suspect right now) Who did 1985? (Maybe Koujirou...??) Where is the hand/Why? (Something to do with wedding ring?) What's up with the burned body? (Probably hidden evidence but maybe it's a red herring) Who made the "victim" signs? (My blind guess is Van) I'm definitely too dumb to solve this on my own, so I'm counting on you guys to keep track of some of this stuff. I might try making a chart or something to sum up some details before I start chapter 5, but... shrug. There's a lot to remember. At least the text is generous enough to remind us of details pretty frequently and not expect us to have perfect memories. Then again I'm paranoid that it'll use that against us by failing to remind us of a critical detail. edit: btw we are about 40% of the way through the book. Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Apr 27, 2019 |
# ? Apr 27, 2019 00:36 |
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Who would have the motive to send the letters, know the participants that were around when Chiori died (the Mystery Club) and plan everything? It could be Kou if Chiori was actually his daughter. It could be Orczy because she was the only one to remember Chiori and the significance of being on Horned Island though her thoughts seems to paint her as too distraught(?) to plan all of this. If Seiji faked his death, he would have had the time to plan all of this. His feelings towards Chiori may just be how it appeared and not be his actual feelings about his daughter.
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# ? Apr 27, 2019 04:55 |
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quote:Chapter Five quote:1 ----------- Live thoughts: -Man, I'm really interested in Agatha. I'm glad we're getting this look into her mind because she kind of seems like the most closed-off of the group, after Orczy, but like in a subtler way than Orczy is. Like, she complains about doing all the cooking/etc but never actually complains about it to the boys. I wonder if that's the only thing in her mind that she's keeping from the rest.... -Detail that catches my eye #1: Agatha's low blood pressure. -Jfc does everybody on this island smoke? lol -I love the way the "something red" scene was written to make you definitely think it was talking about blood at first. At least, for me it worked lol. -Wow ok that thunk will surely be important. Gotta keep that in mind. -"The door was unlocked." I am offended. Who do you think you are getting murdered in a not closed-room fashion? -"Orczy's body, which could no longer move nor feel shame." This part was really beautiful in Japanese and I feel like I butchered it. It's written like those are the two things most indicative of Orczy's life: movement, and being shy. Poor Orczy! :'( -Re: Poe - I generally like to believe that characters are not this good at acting, so I'll feel more than a bit betrayed if it turns out Poe killed Orczy. Post-section thoughts: Okay, so that was all-around a pretty unexpected scene between Poe and Carr there, and I'm definitely surprised that everyone was so alright with not checking the body. Right now there are essentially no clues about the murder except for social clues during the discovery. At least, not that I can tell. I've gotta say I'm still super intrigued with the way Ayatsuji sets up information in this book. Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Apr 30, 2019 |
# ? Apr 30, 2019 11:47 |
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quote:2 ----- Live thoughts: -I think it's funny how Leroux just rapid-fire spouts off all these cliche "character in denial" lines one after another. -Was there no blood at the scene or anything? Because there's no way you'd cut off someone's hand, even a recently-dead person, without getting blood everywhere.... right? (Oh nevermind, they brought that up) -Poe's hands mean that at the very least the killer had to have gotten blood on their hands. That means that they either wiped them with something, or had to visit the bathroom afterwards.... hm... -I really like the detail of Poe's time-of-death explanation. Post-section thoughts: I'm too tired and stupid to draw conclusions or theories from the new details. But I think we can safely assume the next murder/murders will be from an axe to the head? edit: changed "satire" to "pastiche" and "parodying" to "copying" Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 22:13 on May 1, 2019 |
# ? May 1, 2019 02:32 |
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Mr. Steak posted:-Was there no blood at the scene or anything? Because there's no way you'd cut off someone's hand, even a recently-dead person, without getting blood everywhere.... right? Mm. Thing is, even without a heartbeat, chopping off someone's hand immediately after death would release a lot of blood. All the lack of a heartbeat would get you is no spurting; you'd still be looking at a damned big pool. So I wonder if Poe's explanation here is reflective of a lack of research on the author's part, or a deliberate deception on the character's part.
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# ? May 1, 2019 16:13 |
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The_White_Crane posted:Mm. Thing is, even without a heartbeat, chopping off someone's hand immediately after death would release a lot of blood. All the lack of a heartbeat would get you is no spurting; you'd still be looking at a damned big pool. I'm pretty sure we can trust the author's research considering the explanation of the time of death. But idk if that means Poe is definitely being deceitful either. Maybe Poe is considering if the hand was cut like... an hour or more after her death? I'm not sure when exactly there would be significantly less blood. There's also the possibility that Poe doesn't know super well about post-mortem bleeding. fast edit: that said, I'm pretty confident the body was moved after death. The tidiness of the corpse along with the lack of blood found at the scene makes me pretty sure about that right now.
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# ? May 1, 2019 20:50 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 22:47 |
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quote:3 * quote:"Yeah, there's no boats at all. And we don't have the tools to chop trees and make a raft. And even if we did, it'd be a roll of the dice whether we reach the shore. ----Want a smoke, Van?" * quote:"Actually Leroux, I think there's another possibility." ----- Part 1 thoughts: I'm really interested in Carr too. Am I just super easy to get invested in characters or are the characters in this really subtle and interesting? Probably a little bit of both. Man, I'm still upset that Orczy died so soon. I really wanted to know more about what made her tick. (And also it might've been cute if Carr actually was interested in Orczy and they had some cute interactions...) Also, for the record I completely agree with Carr, and not just because I want more details as a reader. It was totally irresponsible of the others to let Poe basically have an "information monopoly" over them. [By the way, this is officially the end of where I've skimmed ahead. From this point on I'm translating completely blind, as I read.] Part 2 thoughts: -"Poe, Van, and Agatha" ok so Ellery and Leroux are 100% definitely just loving around right now lol. -I like the idea that Poe just has a functionally infinite amount of cigarettes that he's constantly smoking/lending lol. -"None of us could have seen this coming." Well, one person certainly did. Agatha? She's the one who told the fisherman not to come, iirc. -The order of the dialogue after Agatha said "absolutely not" is slightly confusing. I'm fairly certain the order goes like this: Van, Poe, Van, Agatha, Van, and then a line is attributed to Poe. To reflect that, I added an attribution to Agatha. I'm sorry Ayatsuji! -Can't they use wood from the dead trees around Blue Mansion to build a fire...? -Agatha has a verifiable alibi...? C'mon girl, if this is some weak poo poo then that just makes you look suspicious. Part 3 thoughts: -I enjoy that transition very much. -I was gonna call the extra person a "third party individual" but realized that might add a fake association to that new year's party lol. -Oh, I kind of assumed Agatha etc were near the inlet area looking for canoes or whatever in the boathouse, since Poe mentions building a raft right after. I guess they were talking about seeing boats on the water though. Looking at the map again, I guess the inlet could be considered west coast. If they're heading up the east coast then the groups might actually converge right on top of Carr lol. (I'm starting to get a headache thinking about this. Luckily the translation doesn't depend on me understanding poo poo. For example I didn't have to edit any translations after this revelation.) -Ohh they're bringing up the Seiji theory already! Here we go... -I hate how every entrance was unlocked. I mean, that's the smartest thing to do if you're the killer. Leave everything unlocked so there are too many variables to deduce anything. -Is this the first time they mentioned that the front door lock is broken...? How does Ellery know that? -Time to check back to when the kitchen doors were opened during the sign-discovery scene. Could the outside culprit be sure they'd be able to see into the hall? (for some reason I'm reminded that the sakura trees are out near the kitchen window) -Super notable that Ellery doesn't bring up Chiori when asked about Seiji's motive. -Leroux is about to remember Chiori...?? -Man, there's *gotta* be something deeper about Ellery's character. He better not die before we get more into his feelings! Final thoughts: Wow, reading more of this after so long (since I've been REreading this whole time) is giving me that familiar feeling of having my head full to the brim with new details, and I probably won't get to sleep tonight because of it lol. I feel just like Leroux right now. I love how every single line feels like it has gravity, but also it's slightly exhausting... heh. Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 09:42 on May 2, 2019 |
# ? May 2, 2019 09:34 |