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Intel&Sebastian posted:Robb could have won if he just figured out how to keep a side piece like every other Lord besides his dad. Or just remembered that the war is more important than marrying someone RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW and either dropping her or telling her we'll have to figure it out later. I'll give you that the jeyne situation was totally avoidable but Robb's war effort was basically doomed once the Lannister-Tyrell alliance formed. his eventual defeat might not have been as spectacular and gruesome as the Red Wedding, but i can't see any reasonable way he could've won once the alliance provided the Lannisters with an extra 40,000 or so troops (thats even after the tyrells sent half their army home), infinite food, a huge navy, the generaling services of tarly, the institutional power of oldtown, etc. robb could have pulled back behind the Neck and hidden in the north, sure, but only at the cost of abandoning his riverlands allies to presumably-deadly lannister retribution, which would have produced its own set of generational feuds and grudges I think one of the takeaways of the way GRRM handled the Wo5K is that there is really no way for the North (or any individual kingdom really) to subdue an area as large and populous as the other 6, so Robb was basically hosed as soon as he decided to fight PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 21:05 on May 1, 2019 |
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May 1, 2019 21:03
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Yeah, but that just sort of shifts the "dumb move" pin to "trusting them in the first place" rather than "thinking they're really totally ok with this compromise marriage" Robb definitely made some dumb moves, but I think his sins are more forgiveable. He's young and he's been dunking on the Lannister's this entire time while his men constantly fellate him as the King in the North. Why wouldn't he think he could get away with breaking his marriage pact to the Freys? It's still dumb, but he's young and has a lot to learn. Robb didn't die at the red wedding because he deserved it, he died because the story needed it.
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May 1, 2019 21:05
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Katt posted:I have to credit ASOIAF for the phonetic character names. This Hizdahr Zo Loraq erasure is unacceptable
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May 1, 2019 21:07
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chaosapiant posted:Robb definitely made some dumb moves, but I think his sins are more forgiveable. He's young and he's been dunking on the Lannister's this entire time while his men constantly fellate him as the King in the North. Why wouldn't he think he could get away with breaking his marriage pact to the Freys? It's still dumb, but he's young and has a lot to learn. Robb didn't die at the red wedding because he deserved it, he died because the story needed it.
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May 1, 2019 21:09
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:He could have just killed the freys the first time. Okay we're half across the twins, get 'em now boys. Every non-lannister house seems to have bannerman that are obtuse and villainous to the extreme, if only Robb had noticed he could have handled his own dreadfort and the rest on the way down. Yea, but that's completely counter to what Robb aimed to achieve. His original goal was just to free his dad. After that, his next goal was to fight for the right to be left alone. Robb was never going to off other houses just for his safety, unless they struck first.
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May 1, 2019 21:11
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really the dumb move that led to all this is the Tullys allowing the freys to have the Twins to begin with they should have long ago made up some pretext to strip them of their title and install a Tully cadet branch there you dont leave your most untrustworthy bannermen to hold the most strategically vital location in your territory!!! so if we want to blame anyone, we can blame...whoever was the first Riverlands lord paramount
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May 1, 2019 21:13
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lol for real who lets a bannermen roll up when a battles already done and just gives him a lovely nickname instead of firing him
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May 1, 2019 21:17
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PupsOfWar posted:really the dumb move that led to all this is the Tullys allowing the freys to have the Twins to begin with I believe that was Snuffleupagus Tully
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May 1, 2019 21:18
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yea hoster should probably have decapped walder at that point send the other few hundred freys to the wall, give the Twins to the blackfish and name him Warden of the Crossing or something, the equivalent of the job he ended up doing for lysa
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May 1, 2019 21:19
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my favorite later book pov is joncon because aegon's story is so absurd it actually owns. aegon, the true heir to the throne being raised by his remaining gay dad after his other gay dad and actual birth mother died (rip) is going to lead the company of mercenaries that has tried to conquer westeros like 6 times already and he's also going to do it before dany shows up to burn it all to the ground.
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May 1, 2019 21:22
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PupsOfWar posted:really the dumb move that led to all this is the Tullys allowing the freys to have the Twins to begin with Stripping titles is a huge no no in Medieval society and is the type of thing other houses would go to war on behalf of the Freys just to stop. Nobody wants that precedent set either because if the Tullys start doing that there's nothing stopping the Targaryens from saying gently caress you Tullys you're no longer a noble house, etc. It's a can of worms nobody would want to open.
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May 1, 2019 21:24
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Doing a Red Wedding is just as bad, if not worse, in this society and nobody made a move on them. Not to mention it can't be that bad because there's a famous song about the Lannisters doing it just because someone was getting uppity and no one went to war over it. Unless it's cool because it was a genocide and not a legal stripping or whatever lol. Both of these can be explained away as the Lannisters just being too powerful to oppose but if that's the case then the Tully's would probably be in the same position over internal Riverlands conflicts. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:30 on May 1, 2019 |
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May 1, 2019 21:28
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Ginette Reno posted:Stripping titles is a huge no no in Medieval society and is the type of thing other houses would go to war on behalf of the Freys just to stop. Nobody wants that precedent set either because if the Tullys start doing that there's nothing stopping the Targaryens from saying gently caress you Tullys you're no longer a noble house, etc. thats why you make up a pretext to get everyone else on your side fabricate a frey treason plot probably doable since the freys had been involved in Blackfyre hijinks and were roundly despised by the other families for being parvenu i think you could get blackwood, vance, mallister, etc. on board with a putting-the-freys-in-their-place campaign
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May 1, 2019 21:29
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Doing a Red Wedding is just as bad, if not worse, in this society and nobody made a move on them. mayhaps
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May 1, 2019 21:30
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Yes, stripping a title give a big opinion penalty with all vassals
Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 21:47 on May 1, 2019 |
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May 1, 2019 21:33
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game of thrones properties better than the show: the mod for ck2 the mod for mount and blade the books.
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May 1, 2019 21:35
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dont forget about the mod for medieval 2
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May 1, 2019 21:39
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UnlimitedSpessmans posted:my favorite later book pov is joncon because aegon's story is so absurd it actually owns. I seriously don't know what the gently caress GRRMz is thinking here, and the clearest evidence yet that no one loving edited that book.
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May 1, 2019 21:58
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chaosapiant posted:I made the mistake of going back and reading the last two page of posts. I guess ya'll were discussing GRRM buttbanging his woman, PA R. R. IS? They both have 2 Rs see. It's good. Yeah he put his wiener in her butt and her turds were the perfect blend of soft and firm that he ended up sounding his peen with a poop and got a doodoo dick infection on Christmas. Welcome to the GRRM thread.
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May 1, 2019 22:00
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kcroy posted:I seriously don't know what the gently caress GRRMz is thinking here, and the clearest evidence yet that no one loving edited that book. the best part is the fact that the golden company are still in the show while aegon was written out of it, despite the golden company landing and taking over griffins roost in the books means that aegon probably does actually win in the books until Dany shows up.
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May 1, 2019 22:03
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also can we talk about how according to the show rheagar named two of his sons aegon what the gently caress lmao
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May 1, 2019 22:04
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UnlimitedSpessmans posted:game of thrones properties better than the show: Whoa, there’s a GoT mod for mount and blade? Please send me it! Is it good?
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May 1, 2019 22:04
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maybe Winds of Winter (posthumous publication) will open with Storm's End casually no-selling aegon's attack castellan griping at JonCon's body like "my man, did you not understand the pun?" then we never hear from the Stormlands again UnlimitedSpessmans posted:also can we talk about how according to the show rheagar named two of his sons aegon what the gently caress lmao i know this is probably the showrunners forgetting aegon's other kids existed but rhaegar was a weird enough dude that I can imagine him going...wait, didn't get that first aegon right, got to start over
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May 1, 2019 22:10
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the weirdest part about the show's take on R+L=J is every character being so willing to accept the definitely-real anullment and marriage ceremony rhaegar arranged
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May 1, 2019 22:17
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chaosapiant posted:While I'm at it, does anyone else love the Witcher novels as much as these books? I do, but I think i'm one of the few. 
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May 1, 2019 22:20
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chaosapiant posted:I always think Eddard absolutely got what was coming to him. He was WAY too honest and straightforward and I have no idea how he made it that far in the world as it is. Robb, however, is a different story. I absolutely do not believe that the Freys wouldn't have betrayed him if he'd kept his promise. The Freys aligned with the house they thought would win the war, and used Robb's dumb marriage as a pretext. Ned gets killed because he’s away from his power base where the loyalty he inspires in his people doesn’t matter. If the Lannisters or Littlefinger tried any poo poo in the North, there’d be a lot of grim men shrugging and going “Awful shame what happened to those Southerners.@ and be talking about sealing the Neck. Look at Ned and Tywin Lannisters legacy long term, who comes out better? Ned raised decent people, Tywin really didn’t.
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May 1, 2019 22:21
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chaosapiant posted:Whoa, there’s a GoT mod for mount and blade? Please send me it! Is it good? there's two, the a clash of kings mod and the world of ice and fire mod. clash of kings is very good but also made by a crazy person who can't handle criticism so it might become real bad at any time. woiaf mod is super difficult at the start and has some pretty bizzare design decision but overall is worth a try. i've had people advocate for both but they both seem good with some problems. acok:https://www.moddb.com/mods/a-clash-of-kings awoiaf: https://www.moddb.com/mods/a-world-of-ice-and-fire
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May 1, 2019 22:23
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PupsOfWar posted:maybe Winds of Winter (posthumous publication) will open with Storm's End casually no-selling aegon's attack robert baratheons ghost would really like the first part, also bobby b would 100% side with the night king if it was against the targs and that owns. i do like the idea of the showrunners forgetting aegon's kids existing even after having the entire oberyn arc on screen, followed by the sand snakes avenging oberyn who died to avenge the mountain killing baby aegon.
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May 1, 2019 22:27
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Man Mount and Blade is so good I wish I had the time to install and play those mods
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May 1, 2019 22:29
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Man Mount and Blade is so good I wish I had the time to install and play those mods i have several bets with people related to bannerlord never coming out and winds of winter never coming out. mount and blade is a legit masterpiece
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May 1, 2019 22:31
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PupsOfWar posted:thats why you make up a pretext to get everyone else on your side However I suspect the Tully’s spymaster had some terrible, terrible stats.
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May 1, 2019 22:35
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going by the other kids' names it seems like rhaegar was trying to recreate the original 3 targ dragonriders had his aegon, had his rhaenys, needed a visenya presuming that was the plan, jon being born a boy would've hosed it up but anyway, im guessing jon's real name in the books is whatever is the male equivalent of visenya so...viserys? maybe the show changed it because they thought that would be confusing
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May 1, 2019 22:36
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PupsOfWar posted:the weirdest part about the show's take on R+L=J is every character being so willing to accept the definitely-real anullment and marriage ceremony rhaegar arranged  *looks at camera*
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May 1, 2019 22:37
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HidaO-Win posted:
Since Tywin's castle is not a burned-out ruin, his rival local House has not replaced his lineage as Warden, he was not dumb enough to send his living brothers to a penal colony where they cannot claim land or produce more Lannisters, and his kin are all in key positions of power instead of murdered by upstarts or fleeing for their lives, I'm going to sat Tywin is way ahead on that count. Long term the Starks are really banking on a series of miracles to even keep from vanishing entirely. Meanwhile the Lannisters, even after a lot of bungling, are still a powerful House, their lands relatively untouched by the war, rich as poo poo and an integral part of calling the shots in Westeros. A lot of contrivance went into that status quo, but there it is.
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May 1, 2019 22:41
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Sephyr posted:Since Tywin's castle is not a burned-out ruin, his rival local House has not replaced his lineage as Warden, he was not dumb enough to send his living brothers to a penal colony where they cannot claim land or produce more Lannisters, and his kin are all in key positions of power instead of murdered by upstarts or fleeing for their lives, I'm going to sat Tywin is way ahead on that count. I’ll lay money at the end of this that the Starks will come out of this better than the Lannister’s just because their support base is more loyal, Tywin used fear and gold to keep people in line and that’s all gone. Since we’re never getting the books, the show will have to be our guide.
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May 1, 2019 23:03
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The problems with book 4 and 5 is its entirely clear that GRRM is tired with the main storyline (and/or he doesn't know what to do next with it) so he fills the books with shitloads of worldbuilding. If there's one thing GRRM never tires of, its worldbuilding. So there you get all this poo poo about Essos nobody cares about, a million sellsword companies and their flamboyant leaders, all this poo poo about Dorne and the Iron Islands nobody gives a poo poo about, and the main characters *mostly* twiddling their thumbs. There's a little bit of plot progression, but not much. Jon sits on the Wall for an entire book and then gets killed. Arya trains. Sansa slowly poisons her cousin. etc.
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May 1, 2019 23:31
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https://twitter.com/LeoOfHyrule/status/1122850640273780737
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May 1, 2019 23:44
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OK the last page hosed me up. I wasn't expecting actual book chat in here. Time for a reread I suppose.
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May 1, 2019 23:50
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Too cool for school
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May 2, 2019 00:07
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HidaO-Win posted:I’ll lay money at the end of this that the Starks will come out of this better than the Lannister’s just because their support base is more loyal, Tywin used fear and gold to keep people in line and that’s all gone. Ehh, even in the books that's a chancy take. The Lannisters basically already crushed any viable opposition in their turf, while Starks have the Boltons, Karstarks and Barrowtown all spitting on them, and the loyal ones have all been ground to paste, except for White Harbor. Not saying they won't go for some Deus ex Machina ("See, the mountain clans and the Reeds are here now!"), but it's going to be weird. And since two beloved characters from the books are Lannisters, I doubt they'll be hit -that- hard in the never-coming next book. I'll lay -my- money on the story taking it all out on Cersei.
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May 2, 2019 00:11
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