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chaosapiant posted:Is it weird for anyone else that, just a little over 10 years ago this series of books were, while popular among fantasy fans, mostly unheard of, and now everything Game of Thrones related is a part of the zeitgeist. I remember thinking "these books would make a good tv show/movie" and then later "oh neat HBO is working on a pilot," and now we're two episodes away from the ending of an 8 season/9 year running series. I actually first read the series in 2009, because I was anticipating the then new Dragon Age: Origins game and kept reading that the game was influenced by Martin's books. So I read them, and afterward they pretty much ruined most other fantasy for me. the cool thing is that the entire tv series, and the books' moment of cultural import, have all run their course before gurm could get another book written
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May 8, 2019 18:39
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PupsOfWar posted:the cool thing is that the entire tv series, and the books' moment of cultural import, have all run their course before gurm could get another book written Not if HBO keeps the torch alive with whatever prequels they have planned. If they actually do that, and then Martin's 6th book comes out, the cultural spotlight will last a bit longer. It's the 15 year period between books 6 and 7 where everyone will forget this ever existed.
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May 8, 2019 18:42
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Imagine calling Yezzan zo Qaggaz--The Yellow Whale, the very personification of Gurm's id--a "minor background character."
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May 8, 2019 18:45
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If I try really hard I can imagine a world where the next book comes out, but it is 100% beyond the power of my mind to picture the scenario where it comes out and is also good or interesting.
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May 8, 2019 18:47
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Intel&Sebastian posted:If I try really hard I can imagine a world where the next book comes out, but it is 100% beyond the power of my mind to picture the scenario where it comes out and is also good or interesting. Eh, despite all the cynicism and the long rear end wait, I don't dislike any of the previous 5 books so if it does come out, I don't see it being a bad book by any stretch. If anything it'll be interesting to see how elements line up and don't line up with the show.
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May 8, 2019 18:48
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The Little Kielbasa posted:Imagine calling Yezzan zo Qaggaz--The Yellow Whale, the very personification of Gurm's id--a "minor background character." Gurm is increasingly a minor background character in the story of his own series. The Jets and Wildcards are more important at this point.
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May 8, 2019 18:59
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Preston is in rare form today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raAIKioXERA
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May 8, 2019 19:27
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Drone Jett posted:Gurm is increasingly a minor background character in the story of his own series. The Jets and Wildcards are more important at this point. I think ultimately he’s sick and tired of being asked about the books, talking about the books, or even writing the book. I think he probably feels trapped by it. He’s a rich old white nerd so I hardly feel bad, but I do empathize with being trapped by something he once loved , and feeling discouraged.
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May 8, 2019 19:32
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chaosapiant posted:I think ultimately he’s sick and tired of being asked about the books, talking about the books, or even writing the book. How can you know this sacred truth and still think you're going to get a good book?
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May 8, 2019 19:36
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Mike N Eich posted:Preston is in rare form today I think that might be a season one reference.
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May 8, 2019 19:37
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Didn't Bran accidentally warg into Shaggydog and saw that Rickon and Osha had made it to Sothoryos and Shaggy was hunting unicorns?
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May 8, 2019 19:47
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quote:Sothoryos men are described as brindle-skinned half-men by Daenerys Targaryen.[8] Their brindled skin is thick, often in patterns of brown and white. They are big-boned and massively muscled, with long arms, sloped foreheads, huge square teeth, heavy jaws and coarse black hair. Their broad, flat noses suggest snouts. Sothoryi women are said to be unable to breed with men from Essos or Westeros, only bringing forth stillbirths or malformed offspring quote:The Ghiscari consider them to be slow of wit but fierce fighters that make good slaves. Farther south, the Sothoryi are more savage, known for cannibalism and worshiping dark gods with obscene rites. There are also unproven reports of other races and forgotten peoples that were driven out, destroyed, or devoured by the Brindled Men, as well as lizard men and eyeless cave-dwellers.[7]
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May 8, 2019 19:54
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Calaveron posted:Didn't Bran accidentally warg into Shaggydog and saw that Rickon and Osha had made it to Sothoryos and Shaggy was hunting unicorns? nah that's cannibal island i think??? skagos or something basically rickon is going to become Dick, First of His Name, Master of Hounds, Cannibal King
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May 8, 2019 19:56
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V. Illych L. posted:nah that's cannibal island i think??? skagos or something OK no I looked it up and it's Jon "dreaming" about being Ghost seeing Shaggydog hunting and killing a unicorn in Skagos
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May 8, 2019 20:03
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Calaveron posted:Didn't Bran accidentally warg into Shaggydog and saw that Rickon and Osha had made it to Sothoryos and Shaggy was hunting unicorns? they went to skagos, not sothoryos, hence the unicorns.
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May 8, 2019 20:19
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NihilCredo posted:In the fantasy genre, I suggest you check out the Black Company series. It's much more high fantasy than ASOIAF/Witcher, but they share a similar mood which I would sum up as 'this world is full of poo poo'. Disclaimer - it's also more character-oriented than the others, I think a big reason I "only" read the first three books and never bothered to keep reading was that the world didn't feel real and vibrant in my mind the way Planetos does. Ugh, am I the only one who made the stupid mistake of reading further only to find out that it all turns to poo poo? I hate each and every one of you for having the wisdom of stopping while it's still good. chaosapiant posted:I actually first read the series in 2009, because I was anticipating the then new Dragon Age: Origins game and kept reading that the game was influenced by Martin's books. So I read them, and afterward they pretty much ruined most other fantasy for me. Are you me? Literally the only difference is that I read them a few years before that.
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May 8, 2019 20:22
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even alt shift x got salty on his ep3 video
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May 8, 2019 20:22
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TK-42-1 posted:even alt shift x got salty on his ep3 video On a tangent, the fact that there's a whole meta-entertainment industry revolving entirely around reacting and commenting on other people's creations is so bizarre to me.
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May 8, 2019 20:32
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Intel&Sebastian posted:How can you know this sacred truth and still think you're going to get a good book? Because if he really didn't give a poo poo he would've written it already. At least that's my thoughts. I don't believe it's malicious intent on the author's part. I believe he's a busier man nowadays and there's a lot more pressure on him. In the earlier books it was easier, there wasn't much attention on the series besides it's core fan base and he could kinda relax. Now, at least per every interview I've seen him in, he's basically feeling like every word he types needs to be the most amazing poo poo ever. Vichan posted:Are you me? Literally the only difference is that I read them a few years before that. Funny thing is, The Witcher 1 came out two years before Dragon Age and also ruined Dragon Age for me. I was disappointed when I first played it because everything it wanted to do, Witcher 1 did better. With the exception of being a party based RPG.
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May 8, 2019 20:52
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chaosapiant posted:Does anyone out there have any recommendations on some other good fantasy to read? I've read this series, of course, most of RA Salvatore's Forgotten Realms/Drizzt novels (I'm done with those, not interested in continuing), the first two books of Wheel of Time which I didn't care for too much, The Witcher novels which are as good to me as ASOIAF, and most of The Lord of The Rings. I still need to finish LOTR. I've heard good things about the Malazan trilogy. Any other series that treat their characters with the same general respect that ASOIAF/Witcher novels do? Abercombie's First Law series In the past I'd recommend the Prince of Nothing by Bakker, but now i dunno. I'm not happy with the last book. "Any other series that treat their characters with the same general respect that ASOIAF/Witcher novels do?" What does this mean?
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May 8, 2019 20:58
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kcroy posted:... It means that if a character fucks up, or does something stupid, for the most part they pay for it. Characters don't keep almost dying, whether main or otherwise. And the characters all have depth and qualities you're supposed to like and dislike. Compare to the characters in the Drizzt saga where everyone is a hero or noble savage and pretty much survive everything regardless of how headstrong/ignorant/stupid their decisions are.
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May 8, 2019 21:03
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For a while I thought Bronn was joining up with the good guys and we'd get more of him but then he just leaves the room and I guess Tyrion is bound by Lannister honour to give him High Garden if Daenerys wins?
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May 8, 2019 21:05
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https://twitter.com/cirisolo/status/1125519424952209408?s=19
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May 8, 2019 21:08
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Katt posted:For a while I thought Bronn was joining up with the good guys and we'd get more of him but then he just leaves the room and I guess Tyrion is bound by Lannister honour to give him High Garden if Daenerys wins? If Tyrion wins, chances are Jon/Dany will capture/punish Bronn for being a backstabbing little bitch. I like his character, but if he's willing to backstab Tyrion that easily, then he's the exact same person he was in season 1 has made zero character growth. Others may disagree and say "that's the way Bronn is supposed to be," but I don't buy it. It'd be different if he went straight to Jaime and Tyrion and offered a way out instead of needing to be bribed. But that's just me.
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May 8, 2019 21:08
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Yeah the mother fucker isn't a faceless man, just being like "hey I'm gonna come gently caress you up later if you don't give me a castle" is like the least savvy thing he could've done. They can just double their security and hire a thousand soldiers to hunt him, he'd have to spend a bunch of time and effort escaping Westeros when he could've just asked for a much simpler bribe and hung around.
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May 8, 2019 21:18
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Katt posted:For a while I thought Bronn was joining up with the good guys and we'd get more of him but then he just leaves the room and I guess Tyrion is bound by Lannister honour to give him High Garden if Daenerys wins? Which can Tyrion even remotely do that (no) and the Tyrells main branch may be dead but they still had vassals, some of which they probably intermarried with at some point, and they're just going to allow this random guy with no retainers to take over one of the most powerful demesnes in the seven kingdoms?
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May 8, 2019 21:22
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Mike N Eich posted:Preston is in rare form today yesss time to roll one and chill with my boi Preston
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May 8, 2019 21:24
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chaosapiant posted:If Tyrion wins, chances are Jon/Dany will capture/punish Bronn for being a backstabbing little bitch. I like his character, but if he's willing to backstab Tyrion that easily, then he's the exact same person he was in season 1 has made zero character growth. Others may disagree and say "that's the way Bronn is supposed to be," but I don't buy it. It'd be different if he went straight to Jaime and Tyrion and offered a way out instead of needing to be bribed. But that's just me. This is why poor Show Bronn is so hosed up. He was never meant to be some sort of dynamic three-dimensional character. In the books he basically leaves the scene after book 3 and is totally off-screen because.....he is a blackhearted son of a bitch who does whatever he wants, and thats it. Them doing all this contrived nonsense with him the last few seasons makes him super loving lame and toothless. Why is Cersei offering him a lordship to kill Jaime and Tyrion? She should know he isn't gonna do it because he hangs with his bros all the loving time. Why is he giving toothless threats to Jaime and Tyrion, while the entire audience knows there's literally no drama there because there isn't an inkling of a thought as if he'd go through with it. It sucks, man.
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May 8, 2019 21:27
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It's really weird how Euron is like that last competent man on the planet. I thought he would lose that election and then get thrown into a shark tank for killing his brother but he just keeps on winning. Although Tyrion openly talking about Cersei being pregnant even though they haven't seen one another since way before Euron even hosed her. The scene goes by without zooming in on Eurons frowning face so I assume the scene had no deeper meaning.
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May 8, 2019 21:33
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Mike N Eich posted:This is why poor Show Bronn is so hosed up. He was never meant to be some sort of dynamic three-dimensional character. In the books he basically leaves the scene after book 3 and is totally off-screen because.....he is a blackhearted son of a bitch who does whatever he wants, and thats it. Plot armour. We fell in love with a show that didn't have it but eventually we got it.
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May 8, 2019 21:34
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It's been a while since I've read the books, but yea, if the intention was to keep him a one dimensional character who does his thing then exits stage left, then he either needs to evolve in the show, or they should dump him. But he's a popular character so he's going to stick around and keep being a dick for money.
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May 8, 2019 21:34
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The Little Kielbasa posted:Roose wants peace and security so nobody finds out that he's a thousand-year-old skin-changing vampire. this. chaosapiant posted:You realize he's been writing since the 70s right? That doesn't invalidate anything else you've said, but he's been around the block a few times. Just never really been noticed for it before. I meant that he had been writing ASOIAF since 1991, so it's hard to expect those books to be all woke. I would think some of that blame would rest on HBO, since they were doing a "modern" adaption of the first book 15 years after it was written.
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May 8, 2019 21:39
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chaosapiant posted:It means that if a character fucks up, or does something stupid, for the most part they pay for it. Characters don't keep almost dying, whether main or otherwise. And the characters all have depth and qualities you're supposed to like and dislike. Compare to the characters in the Drizzt saga where everyone is a hero or noble savage and pretty much survive everything regardless of how headstrong/ignorant/stupid their decisions are. gotcha. That is a tough one. I can think of books where you have some anti-heroes, or books that sort of grimdark - but main characters always have some sort of plot armor, otherwise there wouldn't be a story. I dunno, maybe try Bakker's prince of nothing. Characters definitely having to live with their consequences in that one.
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May 8, 2019 21:42
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chaosapiant posted:It means that if a character fucks up, or does something stupid, for the most part they pay for it. Characters don't keep almost dying, whether main or otherwise. And the characters all have depth and qualities you're supposed to like and dislike. Compare to the characters in the Drizzt saga where everyone is a hero or noble savage and pretty much survive everything regardless of how headstrong/ignorant/stupid their decisions are. Joe Abercrombie. The First Law trilogy.
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May 8, 2019 21:56
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kcroy posted:this. iirc GRRM has even gone on record saying that his whole 'let's give the other cultures an air of mystery/write them the way medieval people would write about foreign peoples they only know bits and pieces about' method was bad, and his handling of PoC and LGBT people in the series is not too hot and he wants to improve going forward in his next series. Except he'll never finish this one and write a next series, but it's the thought that counts. e: GRRM is a pretty liberal dude and I 100% buy it just being a dumb mistake he made back in 1991 and can't fully go back on without futzing with the poo poo he's already written
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May 8, 2019 22:02
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Mike N Eich posted:This is why poor Show Bronn is so hosed up. He was never meant to be some sort of dynamic three-dimensional character. In the books he basically leaves the scene after book 3 and is totally off-screen because.....he is a blackhearted son of a bitch who does whatever he wants, and thats it. The one and only reason I could possibly come up with was the Jaime took him away from his castle for the dorne adventure and he wants another one. Other than that it’s stupid as gently caress.
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May 8, 2019 22:02
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Mike N Eich posted:This is why poor Show Bronn is so hosed up. He was never meant to be some sort of dynamic three-dimensional character. In the books he basically leaves the scene after book 3 and is totally off-screen because.....he is a blackhearted son of a bitch who does whatever he wants, and thats it. It seems in character for Cersei to think thats a good idea, its just her kind of crazy.
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May 8, 2019 22:10
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TK-42-1 posted:The one and only reason I could possibly come up with was the Jaime took him away from his castle for the dorne adventure and he wants another one. Other than that it’s stupid as gently caress. I thought he still had his castle. Jaime didn't completely remove him from his seat did he? Also, as for GRRM's "wokeness" (hate that word)I think while he could stand to be more inclusive in his writing, he's kinda just writing what he knows. He's a 70 year old white dude, as has been repeated. I'm almost 40 and a white dude in the south east United States, and there are tons of social/racial/sex related issues that I'm constantly finding out my ideas on are outdated. It's a constant process of iteration and discovery that requires not only a great deal of social awareness, but the concern needed to want to change if you find your ideas outdated, as I have. I can't imagine someone at 70 years old wanting to change much. That said, I still wrestle with "inclusiveness for the sake of inclusiveness." As in, if your idea is to just jam in PoC because that's what the social and political climate dictate, I don't think that is going to produce a better piece of work. The intention needs to be more than that. Characters and their backgrounds should have a reason to exist and make sense. That's a slippery slope because on one hand, as I said, including people just for the sake of it does not a better book make. But at the same time, inclusiveness is, to me, something that should be so free and without structure or rules that if a character is white, or black, or gay, or transgender, no one should give a poo poo. They should just be another person/character in a story. chaosapiant fucked around with this message at 22:17 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 22:11
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It's a weird line between being inclusive for inclusiveness' sake and not imo. I'm happy to see more representation in all media, but on one hand I'd much prefer that representation be handled by people who know how to write from the experience of whomever it is currently being represented, or at least writers willing to seek out help making sure those experiences are portrayed properly. But that only really matters in media where that specific point of view is integral to the story. Otherwise it really shouldn't matter what race or gender or orientation a character is if it has no real bearing on the plot itself.
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May 8, 2019 22:44
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esperterra posted:iirc GRRM has even gone on record saying that his whole 'let's give the other cultures an air of mystery/write them the way medieval people would write about foreign peoples they only know bits and pieces about' method was bad, and his handling of PoC and LGBT people in the series is not too hot and he wants to improve going forward in his next series. That's good to know, and I agree with you. I see it less as a dumb mistake though, and more uhm.. in depth. It's a way of looking at the world and is shaped by our environment. I don't think you just shake it off, or change it easily. And there is an entirely different factor - if GRRM had written some woke rear end book in the 90s it probably wouldn't have resonated with the people who ended up making his book so popular. But that's a whole different discussion.
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May 8, 2019 22:48
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