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kcroy posted:It seems a bit ridiculous that I have to have read side novels to appreciate a key character in GOT.
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May 21, 2019 11:34
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LMAO my colleagues are so butthurt about the ending, it's glorious. Top notch thread title.  It's been fun, looking forward to my ban when GRRM publishes Win-pffrrhahahahaha
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May 21, 2019 11:48
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:So which is it, is Bloodraven a thousand years old or was he the half-brother of Egg and Maester Aemon? He's definitely the later in the books (there's no reference to him being that old), while in the show the explanation is either that he's not the same character or Bloodraven was only one host of the Three-Eyed Raven and he identifies with the whole gestalt. lol
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May 21, 2019 12:09
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nine-gear crow posted:He also gets to moonwalk away from "David and Dan's" awful ending and let them take all the blame for it when it could have been his to bear if he actually finished the books. So hell yeah, Jorge, take that victory lap while you can. Did you catch the part where he said he might have to add chapters? loving lol the butterfly effect? He's going to need another book isn't he? There's no way it's just 7 now. kcroy posted:It seems a bit ridiculous that I have to have read side novels to appreciate a key character in GOT. Books do this all time. Usually the books are finished though so you go ohhhh. Just like how he should've done the time skip and filled in the gaps with side novels. Urdnot Fire posted:The Dunk & Egg books are better than half the mainline books, though. Easily it's like no contest. Like ADWD is a tire fire
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May 21, 2019 12:17
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Well, I came to it with pretty low expectations and still managed to get disappointed. It was just lackluster, everything about it was dull You probably already discussed all the dumb parts, no need to repeat that. Ill just add that I dont think is a bad ending per se. The facts, the things that happen, it is a good closure to the story. It was just rushed, made without care, like someone just wanted to get rid of it, get it out of the way. If they had 12 episodes instead of 6, it could have been good. Everything just happens too fast, without development or motivation. This happens, than that, than that. Sometimes it feels like someone just describing the ending "ok, then Cersei kills a dragon and Dany gets really mad and decides to torch KL. after that Jon goes see her and kills her and then after some time all the remaining characters in the decides Bran should be king. The end". I think they could have done it properly, even considering how bad they screwed last 2 seasons. But they didint wanted it. They didint even wanted to do the 6 episodes we got, and it shows Also they left so many things unexplained (or poorly explained) that the books could still be interesting, and have many surprises. There wont be no more books though, so The last episode was the worst episode. Best episode was 5 cause we at least we finally got to see a dragon in full nuke mode Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 12:53 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 12:48
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Just when I think I'm finally done with all things GRRM, the Absolute Fucker pulls me back in. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-05-21-george-r-r-martin-stokes-flames-of-fromsoftware-collaboration-rumour
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May 21, 2019 12:59
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Shouldn't letting the north go have set off a whole new round of violence and chaos as it demonstrates the weakness of Bran to hold his family and kingdom together?
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May 21, 2019 13:06
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Where Jon is going at the end, by the way?
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May 21, 2019 13:19
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TK-42-1 posted:if bloodraven/three eyed crow is anything like the bene gesserit gestalt mind then bloodraven took over bran as the stronger personality and finally took the throne. Bloodraven is surely just the continuation of the heart tree hive mind. It’s not like he’s a distinct individual either.
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May 21, 2019 13:32
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Nothus posted:Shouldn't letting the north go have set off a whole new round of violence and chaos as it demonstrates the weakness of Bran to hold his family and kingdom together? The whole point of voting is that in theory it gives the involved parties negotiating power, but lol they vote in 30 seconds then the sister of the new King decides to secede. By early seasons logic the other lords would have rightfully said gently caress it and there'd be a new war.
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May 21, 2019 13:39
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Elias_Maluco posted:Where Jon is going at the end, by the way? Wherever redheaded wildling girls go.
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May 21, 2019 13:40
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i was really hoping for a big succession argument after tyrion's speech and an implication that the war would continue. what a load of crap
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May 21, 2019 13:41
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The Iron Islands are going to revolt in the first two months of the new rule. It is known. D&D just sort of forgot that's the only reason Yara joined Dany.
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May 21, 2019 13:43
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YaketySass posted:The whole point of voting is that in theory it gives the involved parties negotiating power, but lol they vote in 30 seconds then the sister of the new King decides to secede. Well, the "lords" in this case are half a dozen people, including some that arent even lords. If you think about it, if these bunch is all that was left of Westeros nobility, the kingdom is over anyway. The peasant should just kill and eat of all then edit: it was pretty rude of Dany to ignore all those excited dotrakhi in her speech, addressing only the unsulied, like they wanst even there. Than they completely disappear after she gets shanked cause the showrunners dont care about them either Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:48 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 13:44
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kcroy posted:It seems a bit ridiculous that I have to have read side novels to appreciate a key character in GOT. I agree, but the same can be said of Lord of the Rings. If I recall back when before the Silmarillion was published there was even a big debate in the fan community about whether or not Sauron was an evil elf or something, since the book itself explains nothing. And while GRRM is the absolute of fuckers and will never do more books, I suspect in the fairyland where he did, the future books would provide at least basic context on Bloodraven, assuming he does indeed play a major role.
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May 21, 2019 13:52
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YaketySass posted:The whole point of voting is that in theory it gives the involved parties negotiating power, but lol they vote in 30 seconds then the sister of the new King decides to secede. Yeah I was in complete disbelief at this scene. These lords have pretty much 0 reason to trust Bran (who might no longer even be human) much less pledge allegiance to him. The only one in this scene who doesn't act like a plot device is Sansa and she doesn't even get called out for seceding. This whole season smelled of rush and disinterest and that specific scene encapsulates that perfectly.
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May 21, 2019 14:05
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Pretty cool that the anti hero resolved all the complex issues in the final ten minutes by giving an impassioned speech about right & wrong. Very true to the spirit of the books i thought.
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May 21, 2019 14:37
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Well... I always think people pay WAY too much attention to the finale of any given show, and ALWAYS have unreasonable and undue expectations.. For example, people often expect the finale to somehow be... the very BEST and MOST EPIC or MOST EXPLOSIVE or whatever. When in truth, a finale doesn't really *need* to be the best or the most epic or most surprising, it just needs to do its job and do it well. A great finale should not be SO much different from an average episode, but it should be more elegiac and bittersweet. I honestly think this finale was pretty OK for a middling fantasy show. It had some great moments, some reaching moments. Some thjings felt very RIGHT, other things did not. I love Sam as Grand Maester but Bronn as Lord of Highgarden and Coin? Not so much. I like Bran being king but they PROBABLY should have spent more time explaining precisely who and what he is since "becoming the three-eyed raven". Mostly, it feels like a huge series of missed opportunities, and that makes me so, so sad. This episode, had it been better written, could have had made me cry about a dozen times if it hadn't all felt so rushed and crammed together. I mean.... They could have SPREAD THINGS OUT. Taken their time. Shown us how all of this impacted places like The Stormlands, Dorne, The Reach - show us what's going on in the other massive cities while King's Landing is being massacred; I mean, what is happening in Oldtown, Lannisport, White Harbor? Why not use some flashback devices and maybe do something out of left field like show how in truth Old Valyria fell because of a power-mad Targaryen dragon-rider set off a volcano, or something. That would have grounded Dany's action in a sort of historical and even genealogical context and also would have been SO COOL. It just feels like the writers chose the least creative and most rote, obvious way to resolve things. Even though there are hundreds of threads left hanging... which is how it should.
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May 21, 2019 14:40
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YaketySass posted:The whole point of voting is that in theory it gives the involved parties negotiating power, but lol they vote in 30 seconds then the sister of the new King decides to secede. Conversely, why does the north continue to insist on independence when Bran becomes king of the seven kingdoms? Their primary stance is that they will only submit to the rule of a Stark, and Bran is a Stark, so what's the difference? Just throw "King in the North" onto his list of titles. (I know the answer is so that the writers avoid a big ole struggle session about how there are no women leaders at the end) Nothus fucked around with this message at 15:13 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 14:59
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Solice Kirsk posted:The Iron Islands are going to revolt in the first two months of the new rule. It is known. And Dorne.
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May 21, 2019 15:01
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I still stand by enjoying the ending. I still think the season needed more episodes to flesh out some of the curveballs and decisions characters made. The "whose gonna rule Westeros" debate should've been two episodes at least. I like the destination of all the character, but I'm not super keen on how we got there. Edit: Also, I'm not as cynical as most and actually believe Martin will finish the 6th book. My concern isn't the 6th book not being done, it's the 7th one. That one, for everything we've been told, hasn't even been started. I hope Martin learns to be a bit economical with his word-count and gets through "most" of the drama/Night King stuff in book 6. That way book 7 can be the length of the first book and be out within 5 years. But I do believe we'll get a 6th book. chaosapiant fucked around with this message at 15:10 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 15:07
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He hasn't started the 6th book either, let's be honest with ourselves. I haven't watched the show since like season 2 but I read summaries and I'm kind of annoyed that the Starks just get to win essentially. Obviously they had a hard time throughout the story but that's how poo poo goes. It doesn't seem to make sense to wrap them up such a happy ending. Maybe I missed something by not watching the later seasons but the more I read the more I think I made a good decision. beejay fucked around with this message at 15:18 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 15:14
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Nothus posted:Conversely, why does the north continue to insist on independence when Bran becomes king of the seven kingdoms? Their primary stance is that they will only submit to the rule of a Stark, and Bran is a Stark, so what's the difference? Just throw "King in the North" onto his list of titles. Thats the kind of feudal technicality that show watchers would be confused by but GRRM would throw in a book. SirKibbles posted:Did you catch the part where he said he might have to add chapters? loving lol the butterfly effect? He's going to need another book isn't he? There's no way it's just 7 now. Theres no way its even 6 now. There are 5 books. There will always be 5 books. It is known.
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May 21, 2019 15:16
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There's just 4 books: GOT ACOK ASOS AFFC pt1 AFFC pt2 And the currently unfinished AFFC finale.
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May 21, 2019 15:24
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All this “oh this ending makes sense they just didn’t have time to set it up” is a tautology. Anything makes sense if you “set it up” that’s called telling a story. I’m just imagining space aliens coming down and laser zapping everyone in the series finale, and D&D apologists saying, “Hey space aliens is a satisfying ending if you think about it. I bet if they had another season or two they could have really put a bow on it.”
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May 21, 2019 15:25
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They set it up as well as anything else that wasn't relying on the first three books was set up.
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May 21, 2019 15:26
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chaosapiant posted:I still stand by enjoying the ending. I still think the season needed more episodes to flesh out some of the curveballs and decisions characters made. The "whose gonna rule Westeros" debate should've been two episodes at least. I like the destination of all the character, but I'm not super keen on how we got there. Are you a troll designed specifically for the bad thread? What are you doing here with up your optimism and enjoyment? Did GRRM send you to kill the bad thread?
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May 21, 2019 15:27
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I maintain that the ending was good because I laughed at it. This is opposed to a bad ending like in BSG where I just said "what the gently caress are you idiots doing this is the stupdiest poo poo"
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May 21, 2019 15:28
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Cavelcade posted:Are you a troll designed specifically for the bad thread? What are you doing here with up your optimism and enjoyment? Nah, it just gets old seeing a thread constantly repeat the same theme about how there's never gonna be another book. That may very well be the case, but if everyone actually believes that the thread should just be closed.
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May 21, 2019 15:29
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I always thought we are the bad thread?
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May 21, 2019 15:30
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genericnick posted:I always thought we are the bad thread? That's quite possible, I only found the thread a couple weeks back. Is there a thread that's more positive? If not no worries, I'll just un-bookmark this one.
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May 21, 2019 15:31
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How can the maesters write a history of what happens in the show without mentioning Tyrion? Here's a guy who:
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May 21, 2019 15:37
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The easiest answer is that they're trolling him.
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May 21, 2019 15:38
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I'm rewatching/binging the entire series right now with my GF because she only made it to season 4 for some reason. I am constantly finding myself to be that rear end in a top hat everyone hates who says things like "yea this is cool, but in the books...." and I'm really trying to stop. The first most egregious sin for me is still #nochain. Peter Dinklage raises the bar on Tyrion's character in so many ways, but the show continues to make him seem dumb. My gf was like "it's smart that the only sent one boat." And I'm like "eh sort of? It worked, but I believe these characters would've sensed a trap if Tyrion didn't send the whole fleet, plus it was more wood to burn and catch fire." Edit: Also as for Tyrion, I think the maester's mostly hate him from what they know of him and what they've heard. The best way to acknowledge that someone is a piece of poo poo is to not mention them at all. So yea, they were trolling him.
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May 21, 2019 15:42
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I really do believe an ending is just one small piece to a greater whole, and is much less important and significant than, say, The Beginning or even the second act of a story. That's where you get people hooked to stick around for the story. In truth, the success of shows like LOST and GOT have more to do with that longing to learn about some greater unfulfilled mythology. In truth, the real trick is getting you to feel that way in the first place, so you KEEP WATCHING all the way through in hopes of like... getting real fulfillment regarding the resolution of certain plot threads and learning the real motivations behind some character you feel they are holding out on... It's a tricky thing. I mean, I feel like they more or less went "the safe route" in this finale, because nothing truly happens that, um... challenges our ideas about where and how various things would progress. Dany's vision is in the House of the Undying was, in truth, a very direct and accurate and more or less literal preview of how the show would end; we see Dany finding a Blue Rose in the wall of ice (Jon/Aegon, son of Lyanna and Rhaegar, at the wall) and subsequently approaching The Iron Throne covered in ash as ash continues to follow around her like snow. And she does not sit in it; no, she hears a cry and goes to find her dead husband and child, awaiting her in the shadow-lands. Presumably, I suppose this what happens to her after she is killed by Jon, maybe? The rest of the prophecy was pretty accurate. Then I don't know if a mass-murder of innocents and children really deserves a happy afterlife but hey. edit: I think the lack of Tyrion in the book at the end is to remind us of the incredibly subjective nature of any history. That what we're watching is probably as biased a rendition of what really happened as the play that Arya saw in Braavos where Joffrey was a brave and just princeling/King, and Tyrion was a nasty and brutish rapist, and Cersei a tragic and passive victim who watches all her children taken away one by one through no fault of her own. The sense I got was that the entire show we just watched was probably just as slanted in favor of the Starks, ultimately... Because in the very end, it's the Starks and their allies who win, and thus the Starks and their allies get to write the histories. kaworu fucked around with this message at 15:56 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 15:51
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hobbesmaster posted:The easiest answer is that they're trolling him. it's clearly this. the maester who wrote it obviously doesnt like tyrion and conveniently wrote him out of history.
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May 21, 2019 15:53
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chaosapiant posted:Nah, it just gets old seeing a thread constantly repeat the same theme about how there's never gonna be another book. That may very well be the case, but if everyone actually believes that the thread should just be closed. this thread has sustained itself for years on that joke. this is The Bad Thread. it is what it is.
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May 21, 2019 15:54
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Was the prophecy bit about "...when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east" ever fulfilled? I don't remember any condition that could be literally or metaphorically used to satisfy that bit of prophecy. I'd originally thought it meant something regarding Dorne due to their sigil, but I'm not sure anymore.
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May 21, 2019 15:55
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chaosapiant posted:Was the prophecy bit about "...when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east" ever fulfilled? I don't remember any condition that could be literally or metaphorically used to satisfy that bit of prophecy. I'd originally thought it meant something regarding Dorne due to their sigil, but I'm not sure anymore. I don't think it was a prophecy per se, it was a poetic way of saying never.
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May 21, 2019 15:56
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chaosapiant posted:if everyone actually believes that the thread should just be closed. I've thought about it but it wouldn't work, people would just make more threads. This forum needs a threat for ruminating about GRRM the way it needs one for Star Wars novels or LitRPGs. Have to keep the poison contained in a cyst.
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May 21, 2019 15:57
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