|
Yinlock posted:that doesn't change how boring he is Doppio is part of Diavolo as a villain. They're separate souls in the same body (which effectively works like fictional MPD), but the two of them compose one villain. It's JUST like Split. The whole movie is a buildup to invincible The Beast personality coming out, but you still see all of the different personalities as being part of the singular antagonist, especially since they work together. Diavolo is the Beast, essentially. Also goes for characters like Crazy Jane/etc. Darko fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jun 15, 2019 |
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 16:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 21:56 |
|
|
I have faith that DavePro will at least make Gold Experience Requiem visually entertaining.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 16:03
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:the final encounter with king crimson has always sucked and i don't think the anime can magically fix that The way I see it now (and not while reading) is that it's built that the Boss literally has an invincible power that you can at best avoid and there's no way to beat it, just desperate attempts at dodging it. The World can be planned around a bit as long as you work with the time limitation, it just matters who Kira fights, etc., but this is like Kars where Araki is doing his "nope, straight up invincible, the hero needs a MacGuffin or pure luck to win and can't outfight him." So the end of Part 5 is trying to get the arrow, which is the only MacGuffin that can beat him as opposed to a Stand fight. Similar to how Joseph didn't fight Kars and just had to run from him until complete and total bullshit happened. Or how part 6 does this where it is a race to the MacGuffin again, but this time the villain is racing to get it and then he's invincible and wins and only "loses" due to a different technicality that doesnt really have much to do with the main protagonists (6 probably has my least favorite "end boss battle" of all and leadup to it - the only good thing about it is seeing cool scenes of everyone dying to him). edit: The arrow is no different than the stone of Aja, etc. - person who gets it gets the Ultimate power thats basically an I win button. It's just person in this case is Giorno. Darko fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jun 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 16:09
|
|
|
the only thing I remember that happens next is Mista almost gets headshotted by his own bullet again but Trish uses Spice Girl to soften it if they worked together, they'd truly be unstoppable
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 17:23
|
|
|
I don't think I'd call part 5 uneven because the biggest problems with it are present the entire time. He has a cool power (most of the time) but Giorno really just feels like he shouldn't be in this group because he's such a black hole of a character. It also feels sort of like Araki was aware of this but still really wanted to make him prominent, so he had all these characters talk about how great he is the whole way through. On the flipside you have Diavolo, a character I like as an antagonist (and design, I dig his outfit) but not particularly as a character. There are a lot of paired up antagonists in this part, and Doppio/Diavolo mostly just feel like another one of them, and not the actual Big Bads that were built up this entire time. The two (three?) most important characters of part 5 all feel like they shouldn't be given the weight they have. Also on another note the stuff with the arrow always struck me as a bit odd. Jojo doesn't really do powercreep like traditional manga, so the effects of the arrow feel less like gaining untold power and more like they just rerolled for a different stand, at least in Silver Chariot's case. I don't feel like putting people to sleep and switching bodies is a power that much stronger than others we've seen without using the arrow (especially stuff in part 6. Chariot Requiem comparatively seems on par with stuff like Bohemian Rhapsody). Basing your whole ending on a powerup that barely feels like a powerup just isn't that interesting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 17:40
|
|
|
yeah part 5 and 6 both have cool stuff in them imo but I really dislike the ending fights because the resolutions are so lame and no i don't really care about the 'they're free of the joestar bloodline curse now!!!' ending bs either
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 17:44
|
|
|
its supremely cool that all of jolyne's character development gets negated
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 17:44
|
|
|
It does kinda suck the final battle is more about Jotaro than Jolyne, but Pucci's death at the hands of Weather Report is a hell of a better ending than GER
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:00
|
|
|
Aurora posted:and no i don't really care about the 'they're free of the joestar bloodline curse now!!!' ending bs either
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:01
|
|
|
multijoe posted:It does kinda suck the final battle is more about Jotaro than Jolyne, but Pucci's death at the hands of Weather Report is a hell of a better ending than GER yeah too bad about the main character
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:06
|
|
|
what? the events of Part 2, 4 and 5 are all set in motion by DIO. - Because of the events of Part 1, Speedwagon became a rich explorer, finding the site of Pillar Men, where Straits betrayed them forcing Joseph into action - Because of DIO giving the arrow to Papa Nijimura and Papa Kira, Stand Users are now popping up in Morioh. Kira wouldn't be the danger that he is without the exploding cat girl ghost. - Because of DIO loving a woman in 1989, Giorno exists at all. because of DIO, none of the Joestars have peaceful idyllic lives, they now have periods in their life rife with conflict and loss. like even without butterfly effecting this, DIO has had a MASSIVE effect over the last hundred years of the Joestar family
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:07
|
|
|
Dio technically saved the world from the Pillar Men. If he hadn't become a vampire, Jonathan, and by extent Lisa Lisa and Joseph, would not have learned how to use Hamon. None of the other Hamon users seemed strong enough to take down the Pillar Men, and Joseph only wins by trickery.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:07
|
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:because of DIO, none of the Joestars have peaceful idyllic lives, they now have periods in their life rife with conflict and loss this is such a useless, bad point this isn't how life is jolyne and every other character went through changes and growth because of what happened to them irene isn't the ideal of jolyne.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:09
|
|
|
and even if you pretend like it's a good point giorno, josuke, and Joseph all have pretty good lives. jotaro has a pretty good life even if he hosed up his relationship with his daughter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:11
|
|
|
i wasn't talking about jolyne at all.. i was talking about how it's crazy to say that the Curse of DIO is only in three parts
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:12
|
|
|
idk your post seemed to also be in response to the point i made about the ending in the first post
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:13
|
|
|
oh sorry, i wrote it in reference to lonestar'sAurora posted:and even if you pretend like it's a good point giorno, josuke, and Joseph all have pretty good lives. jotaro has a pretty good life even if he hosed up his relationship with his daughter. josuke grew up without a father and lost a little goblin buddy joseph has lived a long life where many friends of his were murdered, almost including his own daughter. jotaro's later years have him distant from his family because he's worried about more supernatural threats coming from them a lot of these have pretty good lives, but that's not the point. it's that they all experience hardships and difficulties that would have never happened if dio didn't exist
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:15
|
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:what? the events of Part 2, 4 and 5 are all set in motion by DIO.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:16
|
|
|
Aurora posted:yeah too bad about the main character You could say the same about Jonathan dying in Phantom Blood? Jolyne giving up her life to allow Emporio to escape is good characterisation, just because it isn't the optimal happy ending for her it doen't mean it's bad writing
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:17
|
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:giorno grew up in an abusive household, found a new group of friends and watched three of them die life happens. removing 'the curse' to magically fix their lives isn't somehow a plus and removing the bad poo poo that happened is fairly tale nonsense. it's kind of insulting to think that their lives are better without the growth they went through.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:18
|
|
|
multijoe posted:You could say the same about Jonathan dying in Phantom Blood? Jolyne giving up her life to allow Emporio to escape is good characterisation, just because it isn't the optimal happy ending for her it doen't mean it's bad writing Jonathan's death isn't convoluted bullshit Dio didn't magically kill Jonathan by getting the superpower no one is allowed to touch
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:19
|
|
|
I guess to me DIO's intent doesn't matter here, the effect of his actions are global. What he has done set in motion events that will plague the Joestar family for generations. and yeah Giorno ends up better than he started, almost all the Joestars do, but they still have to go through those horrible and dangerous tribulations that they never would have if DIO just didn't exist.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:19
|
|
|
everyone's lives would be better if bad poo poo didn't happen. it's how the characters work through and grow because of it that matters. taking that away from every single character is stupid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:21
|
|
|
I'll reiterate this "curse" isn't a concrete thing, just a bunch of coincidences. It can just as easily just...stop on its own. It didn't really need the entire Universe, save one kid, to die off for it to end.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:24
|
|
|
Aurora posted:Jonathan's death isn't convoluted bullshit No, he killed him by spontaneously developing the power to shoot laser eyes after his entire body was destroyed. Made in Heaven was extremely well foreshadowed and and planned out by contrast.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:24
|
|
|
Aurora posted:life happens. removing 'the curse' to magically fix their lives isn't somehow a plus and removing the bad poo poo that happened is fairly tale nonsense. it's kind of insulting to think that their lives are better without the growth they went through. so to reset, and have it end anyway doesn't feel too similar from what we got, but that there's a different version of jolyne and hermes and jotaro where they get to just be a family really works for me..
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:25
|
|
|
TheLoneStar posted:Like I said, it's more contrived coincidences. DIO didn't mean for any of the bad things in Parts 2, 4, or 5 to even happen. They aren't fighting against DIO, they're fighting against people completely unrelated to him. And Giorno is a bad point since he's a positive influence on the world in general. I don't think it really matters if DIO intended it or not, he was still directly and indirectly a major driving force in the events of parts 1 through 6. The "ripples" of his evil follow the Joestars through every part even when it's not the main focus. Plus, JoJo isn't a documentary afaik and I don't think the constant callbacks to DIO was coincidental Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jun 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:25
|
|
|
multijoe posted:No, he killed him by spontaneously developing the power to shoot laser eyes after his entire body was destroyed. Made in Heaven was extremely well foreshadowed and and planned out by contrast. He could already shoot laser eyes. Acting like Made in Heaven is some masterpiece of a superpower because Space Ripper Stingy Eyes exists is loving dumb.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:26
|
|
|
TheLoneStar posted:I'll reiterate this "curse" isn't a concrete thing, just a bunch of coincidences. It can just as easily just...stop on its own. It didn't really need the entire Universe, save one kid, to die off for it to end. like do you want there to be a magic curse from wang chen or enya or god?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:27
|
|
|
Literally all of Jojo happened because Dario was an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:28
|
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:if DIO had said "CURSE YOU JONATHAAAAAAN" like it's the end of ocarina of time as he dies in jonathan's arms help this? would that make it feel like a real curse then?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:28
|
|
|
the theme is that at the beginning of like every part of part 3 they show you a picture of DIO and tell you why the inciting events of the Part are happening
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:29
|
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:so to reset, and have it end anyway doesn't feel too similar from what we got, but that there's a different version of jolyne and hermes and jotaro where they get to just be a family really works for me.. there's not even the implication that anyone besides a new jotaro and jolyne and her friends from prison exists. josuke and giorno and everyone else got their good endings effectively overwritten, who knows what their lives are even like? they were fine. i don't think jolyne really chose to die as some grand thing, she just knew it was the only way that pucci might be stopped. yeah, she 'chose' to save emporio, but was there even really a choice to make? it was the only thing she could really _do_
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:30
|
|
|
do we even have any reason to believe there wasn't a dio in the new universe
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:31
|
|
|
dio in the new universe is probably just Diego tbh
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
we don't even know what emporio did really other than 'look not-jolyne and her not-friends are happy!'
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:34
|
|
|
Aurora posted:He could already shoot laser eyes. Acting like Made in Heaven is some masterpiece of a superpower because Space Ripper Stingy Eyes exists is loving dumb. Dio only figures out he can do it after Jonathan has already beaten him and he's falling off the castle, entirely as a contrivance to allow him to gank Jonathan despite being decapitated. Made in Heaven comes about as a result of Pucci achieving communion with his god (DIO) and grants him what he believes is mastery over the main overarching concept of the series (Fate). I mean it's fine if you don't like it, but there was a logcal conclusion to the story being told in Stone Ocean and the original JoJo contiunity as a whole.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:34
|
|
|
irene and new-jotaro being close that she wants permission from him to get married tells me that new-jotaro didn't have to keep traveling the world to fight new stand users
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:35
|
|
|
Part 5 has a lot of underlying problems, Giorno and Diavolo both chief among them. When I call it uneven I'm thinking more fight-to-fight. It's actually a bit worse when viewed as a complete package. Polpo's an early highlight, and the Execution Squad is mostly (mostly) quality, but most of the other fights lack something, and even the assassins dip in the middle with Melone. Part 6 is also uneven, fight-to-fight, though it's built on a stronger foundation. Jolyne's a great character, as is Pucci, but the final lap doesn't really do either of them much justice. I do like the way Dio continues to be a thing, however. It's the sort of thing I feel like a lot of good versus evil stories ignore: just because the bad guy's dead doesn't mean all the evil they've done is magically fixed. Even in death, Dio casts a long shadow over the rest of the series. Part 4 probably illustrates this the best, despite being the most removed from the core plotline. Kira and Okuyasu's stories are only ever tangentially related to Dio's, but the role Dio plays in unintentionally setting them both up for their respective arcs suggests there may be countless others whose lives have been changed simply by passing proximity. In the end Dio becomes something bigger than himself, which is part of what I dig about him as a villain. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 21:56 |
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:irene and new-jotaro being close that she wants permission from him to get married tells me that new-jotaro didn't have to keep traveling the world to fight new stand users you're really stretching it here
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2019 18:37
|
|