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Tetracube posted:and given that it's araki we're talking about here, if you're thinking any deeper about it you're almost certainly wrong. lol
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Jun 15, 2019 19:54
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Darko posted:(DIO gets a lot of credit for stacking Dio Brando's personality from 1 on him subconsciously, but basically only shows up at the very end, Diavolo suffers from a lot of people not staking Doppio on to him) that's because the story explicitly tells us that diavolo and doppio are entirely seperate people, while DIO and Dio are the same guy
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Jun 15, 2019 19:56
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Even if we stick Doppio to Diavolo, that doesn't change that Doppio basically never shows up again after he walks behind that pillar and we're stuck with Diavolo's boring rear end for the rest of the duration.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:57
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it's not doppio's fault that diavolo killed bruno
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Jun 15, 2019 19:58
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Funky Valentine posted:Even if we stick Doppio to Diavolo, that doesn't change that Doppio basically never shows up again after he walks behind that pillar and we're stuck with Diavolo's boring rear end for the rest of the duration. it doesn't help that chariot requiem shows up and we're immediately treated to 100 years of bodyswap bumbling instead of a rad final boss fight
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Jun 15, 2019 20:04
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Doppio would really need to be in on the act for him to be read as a single character with Diavolo. As he spends the entire manga genuinely thinking he's his own man just working for Diavolo and never develops any real agency he's not so much a symbiotic part of 'The Boss' as a subservient persona to be worn and discarded as convenient. He dies without ever knowing his true nature or his role in Diavolo's schemes.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:06
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The real tragedy with Doppio/Diavolo is that not only is Diavolo as a character less interesting than Doppio as a character , he's not even as interesting as Diavolo as a voice in Doppio's head.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:08
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I don't really mind the body swap stuff because it's fun, but I think it's a missed opportunity they didn't have to learn how to use each other's stands
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Jun 15, 2019 20:14
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Butt Ghost posted:I don't really mind the body swap stuff because it's fun, but I think it's a missed opportunity they didn't have to learn how to use each other's stands Trish accidentally shoots herself in the head and suddenly understands Mista.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:16
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I don't really see how Epitaph will save you from poison as long as the onset time is greater than about 30 seconds.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:19
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Funky Valentine posted:Trish accidentally shoots herself in the head and suddenly understands Mista. It is divine law that those with gun stands must accidentally shoot themselves
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Jun 15, 2019 20:27
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't really see how Epitaph will save you from poison as long as the onset time is greater than about 30 seconds. Maybe he could skip the point were the poison causes him to die. Anyway poisoning him would be hard cause he tries to remain as secret as possible.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:28
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Yinlock posted:that's because the story explicitly tells us that diavolo and doppio are entirely seperate people, while DIO and Dio are the same guy I already gave the example of Split earlier. There is no functional difference in the narrative between McAvoy's other characters and The Beast and Doppio/Diavolo. Or Norma/Norman Bates, etc. It's a split personality with a dominant personality, only in a series with soul powers, Araki gave the split two souls as well. DIO does practically nothing in 3 outside of being an unseen guy in the shadows until the very end, which is basically what Diavolo is. They have about the same level of personality in their respective parts; people just use fond memories of Dio Brando to inform DIO.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:36
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Darko posted:DIO does practically nothing in 3 outside of being an unseen guy in the shadows until the very end, which is basically what Diavolo is. They have about the same level of personality in their respective parts; people just use fond memories of Dio Brando to inform DIO.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:38
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't really see how Epitaph will save you from poison as long as the onset time is greater than about 30 seconds. That's why he lives in a dark room alone where nobody knows who he is, since his only weakness is that kind of assassination.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:38
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TheLoneStar posted:DIO's fight with Jotaro by itself makes him ten times better than Diavolo. Eh, I'm not that huge of a fan of that fight outside of a couple of moments. Now if you said Pet Shop vs. Diavolo, I'd agree.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:41
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At this point I don't think Doppio was unaware that he was sharing a body with Diavolo, and he didn't "think" he was the boss' most trusted subordinate. With the anime showing us that they were born that way as two people, I can't really buy Doppio being out of the loop the whole time that his boss is in the same body. He still sees himself as the subordinate because Diavolo is the more forceful one, but I feel the relationship between the two is one of mutual understanding instead of Diavolo literally just using Doppio.
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Jun 15, 2019 21:05
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Doppio thinks he's the Boss most trustful subordinate because Diavolo tells him that he is. Doppio going his entire life not knowing that Diavolo's inside him is exactly how Trish can't tell that Diavolo is with her inside Mista's body right this second in the anime
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Jun 15, 2019 21:18
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If only diavolo trusted rubbers
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Jun 15, 2019 21:23
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how did diavolo get in the same body as someone else instead of ending up in i don't know, polnareff's corpse
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Jun 15, 2019 21:24
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Coco Jumbo went into Polnareff's body because I guess Polnareff hadn't died yet, just had the JoJo Steam. And since Diavolo being there makes the group an odd number, he just followed his child into Mista because I dunno in JoJo family members can sense each other or whatever
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Jun 15, 2019 21:26
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is the turtle dead. coco jumbo nooo
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Jun 15, 2019 21:29
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Turtle lived I think because Polnareff’s soul gets stored in the key
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Jun 15, 2019 21:32
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the turtle is fine. polnareff is in it! but they establish that soul watching is a trade of sorts so coco jumbo has to be dead now, I think Polnareff just exists AS the turtle and inside the room if you wanna see him again. the joke being that once again, polnareff is trapped somewhere without a bathroom
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Jun 15, 2019 21:38
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I thought Polnaref's soul was sorta "stuck" in mr president and that Diavolo was able to follow Trish's soul cause she's his daughter and *mumble mumble*
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Jun 15, 2019 21:44
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I'd say part 8's partially gimped by an iffy scanlation. Like certainly not part 5 levels of bad, but it's not the best. Characters have way more personality than the part 5 translation but probably a bit less than in a better quality one.
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Jun 15, 2019 22:07
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Personally I think even if you don't count Doppio as a factor for Diavolo (I do though) he's still a main antagonist and should count towards Part 5's quality as a whole. Since he's hilarious and amazing I think he adds quite a bit towards making it a quality Part. I have to agree though that DIO's fight with Jotaro alone makes him the better antagonist. Diavolo doesn't even have a fight, its just Giorno gets the arrow but Diavolo goes "Aha but KC is still bullshit!" only for GER to go "Actually I'm more bullshit." I still think Giorno, Mista and Trish could have put up a good and more importantly fun fight if Araki had tried to write it than what we got which was frankly an anti-climax.
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Jun 15, 2019 22:28
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Diavolo: *as he gets stabbed by a junkie* Giorno your power is so loving stupid. I loving hate you so much stop using it.
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Jun 15, 2019 23:58
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Darko posted:I already gave the example of Split earlier. There is no functional difference in the narrative between McAvoy's other characters and The Beast and Doppio/Diavolo. Or Norma/Norman Bates, etc. It's a split personality with a dominant personality, only in a series with soul powers, Araki gave the split two souls as well. DIO has a massive, dope-rear end fight which is where most of DIO's iconic things come from so no they're not just running off past 1 nostalgia also them not being a split personality and instead two entirely different people inhabiting one body makes a massive difference narratively it changes it from "noted fun villain doppio's not loving around anymore oh poo poo" to "who's this rear end in a top hat" Yinlock fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jun 16, 2019 |
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Jun 16, 2019 01:18
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DIO's "Oh, you're approaching me?" scene has literally become a huge meme in the last month or two. That fight in general is Goku vs Frieza in terms of Shonen Notoriety, "liking DIO is entirely nostalgia" is an absolutely insane take on the finale of Part 3. For decades all the West knew about JoJo was the road roller bit, what the hell are you talking about
Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jun 16, 2019 |
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Jun 16, 2019 01:33
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I'm caught up with part 8. Guess I'm just waiting on the verdict like others. I like Josuke and Yasuho but not that much. They're pretty weak after Gyro and Johnny, and after Team Jolyne. Joshu can go eat poo poo, everyone else is just odd. There's a weird family with weird traditions and they're up against weird not humans instead of there being some looming ultimate evil (Except the rock humans have said they want the Rokaka for some kind of ascension...). Could there be some rock human we haven't seen yet running the show and who will attain their ultimate form with the Rokaka like Kars did in part 2? Could Jobin make one too many moral compromises for the good of his family and be driven to fully become a main villain? Actually, you know what, the Rokaka itself is kind of the main villain, it brings out the worst in everyone.
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Jun 16, 2019 02:28
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*sees every stand's power in every previous jojo part change and retcon themselves consistently for 30 years* hmm i definitely trust this guy to do a longform mystery with a good payoff
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Jun 16, 2019 02:35
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all i want for a part 9 jojo at this point is for there to be a girl jojo again please. i have low standards. this is all i need, araki.
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Jun 16, 2019 02:38
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It was kind of obvious this wasn't going to be a super well written mystery when at the midpoint the magna just sort of gives us the answer to what Josuke is instead of the characters figuring it out.
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Jun 16, 2019 02:38
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Expect My Mom posted:DIO's "Oh, you're approaching me?" scene has literally become a huge meme in the last month or two. That fight in general is Goku vs Frieza in terms of Shonen Notoriety, "liking DIO is entirely nostalgia" is an absolutely insane take on the finale of Part 3. For decades all the West knew about JoJo was the road roller bit, what the hell are you talking about Adding to this, the notion of "you're just remembering part 1 Dio" is like...yeah? People were excited that Dio was back and were really excited for the final reveal. It's the same character. Why wouldn't the audience take what they've known about him from part one onward? He didn't need to show up right away because we already know what his deal is.
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Jun 16, 2019 02:41
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I read Part 3 before any other part (thank you, VIZ Media), and thought Dio was great. Then I read Part 1 and thought he was even better. Dio doesn't do a whole lot in Part 3, true, but Araki nails making him feel like an ever-present force, and the few glimpses we're afforded into how he operates carry a lot of water. He's presented as something akin to a mythic figure, a devil who tempts with honeyed words. Men and women are willing to kill for him, yes, but die for him also, or at least live in fear of the repercussions of betraying him. Both Kakyoin and Polnareff recall him as a coldly comforting figure, and Avdol was overwhelmed with the need to flee at once. He reacts to Joseph's spirit photography (several times), philosophizes with Enya, coolly talks down Hol Horse, and inspires Vanilla Ice to kill himself, then the Joestars. These scenes, while short, are given weight, tension, and clearly communicate Araki's horror influence. He's the xenomorph from Alien, seldom seen but ever in our thoughts. Then he's revealed at the top of the stairs, staring down Polnareff, and his opening gambit isn't to fight, but to tempt the Frenchman as before. He compliments him on his growth, congratulates him on avenging his sister, and seek to lull him into compliance. Even as Polnareff gathers the will to fight, Dio toys with him instead, using his powers to psych him out. It is only once the others arrive he moves to fight, and the fight that follows doesn't disappoint. So many iconic moments, as others have already pointed out. What's more, as the fight drags on, Dio reveals more and more of his old personality. I didn't recognize it as his old personality at the time, but in retrospect that's absolutely what's happening. In Part 1 he was a punk who played at being sophisticated. By Part 3 he's mastered the performance, but as his power grows and his enemies dwindle, he can't help but indulge in his old vicious streak. All this, save the knowledge of his habits from Part 1, was evident on my first read-through. Going back to Part 1, then (and then back back to Part 3), you get a sense for who Dio was before all this, and how the events of his life have defined him. It's not Shakespeare but there's an arc, both personal and thematic. Part 1 is very much a morality play, with Jonathan being the Good to Dio's Bad. In the end Jonathan gives his life to prevent Dio's corrosive influence from spreading further; so for Dio to return a hundred years later, his head grafted onto Jonathan's body, there's almost something obscene and unholy about it. Diavolo makes a strong first impression with how he handles Sorbet and Gelato, but beyond that isn't given much to work with. He's too deep in the shadows to ever meaningfully interact with anyone, except when he's fighting them. There's no history there. His origins are shrouded in mystery and rumor, but we're never really allowed to peer past the veil. Nothing meaningful really comes from it. He's a powerful mob boss and an extreme recluse, and the latter almost seems in service of the former. Pretty much everything he does, he does to preserve his anonymity. He has the assassins killed because they were trying to uncover his identity, and he wants Trish killed because someone might trace her back to him. He rules through fear, allegedly, but I guess not enough since a sizable portion of his own people were actively trying to kill or replace him. Then he shows up and, well, it's not much. He's got a pretty powerful ability, but it's not attached to much of a character. The multiple personality thing could've been interesting, but it mostly ends up a vehicle to further obscure Diavolo's identity - and it doesn't help that Doppio's the more interesting (and entertaining) half of the duo by leaps and bounds, and rendered irrelevant before the final battle. Diavolo ends up feeling like a cardboard cutout, a weird attempt at mixing Dio's reputation with Kira's motives, while lacking the elements that made those characters work. He's a threat to our heroes, but not much more than. We don't get much from him, and I can't say I'd care to.
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Jun 16, 2019 04:14
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Also for a dude whose main motivation is ostensibly trying to keep a low profile Diavolo sure doesn't dress like it.
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Jun 16, 2019 04:21
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You know now that I think about it it's really weird that Diavolo bothered to wear a suit when confronting Bruno and Polnareff. You don't want anyone know notice you to the point that you spend like 95% of your time driving around in Doppio and you're going to ice the guy anyway, why bother wearing anything other than the mesh poncho?
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Jun 16, 2019 04:24
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Bad Seafood posted:Also for a dude whose main motivation is ostensibly trying to keep a low profile Diavolo sure doesn't dress like it. Well, look at the series he's in.  You really nailed it when it comes to what separates the too, but to me, there's just this factor that both DIO and Kira have where it's like...that same thing that makes the audience burst into applause when a character in a sitcom shows up. Doppio kind of had that too! I really miss him! It would have been so much more interesting if the Boss was "fake" and the mob was being run by this weird, dopey 15-year-old with a murder streak. I got sidetracked from my original point from thinking about how dope as hell that would be. edit: anyway I really do admire the writing involved with Dio because he can pull off having that larger than life vibe while also being the kind of character that would wear one of those pants that have "JUICY" printed on the rear end. The duality of man. BaDandy fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jun 16, 2019 |
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Jun 16, 2019 04:39
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Expect My Mom posted:DIO's "Oh, you're approaching me?" scene has literally become a huge meme in the last month or two. That fight in general is Goku vs Frieza in terms of Shonen Notoriety, "liking DIO is entirely nostalgia" is an absolutely insane take on the finale of Part 3. For decades all the West knew about JoJo was the road roller bit, what the hell are you talking about The Freeza fight is the most iconic part of Dragon Ball, and he's the most beloved villain then, but he's not actually interesting until Super plays on his character a bit more. There's a difference between Shonen type good fun video game style bosses and developed characters. Funny Valentine is a great, well developed villain, DIO is a fun final boss. I don't really like the latter much anymore.
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Jun 16, 2019 14:30
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