Climate Change: There are no jobs on a dead planet

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Gitro: May 29, 2013

alein jesus/domes 2024

# ? Jun 27, 2019 13:44

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 16:09

Gitro: May 29, 2013

ugh all i hear every day is 'im trapped eternally in this dome. i am sustainable. i can no longer die. free me', im sick of it. I warned you. this wouldn't be happening if youd voted for sentient ecofascism algorithms like SOMEBODY told you to janice

# ? Jun 27, 2019 13:51

Stoner Sloth: Apr 2, 2019

Marsupialization posted:

Might as well start doing heroin if the situation is so hopeless.

But things could still change. It's a political problem more than anything. With the technology we have now we could at least keep certain parts of the world somewhat inhabitable and avoid extinction. But the politics are a problem. The ruling class is mostly ignoring it or just looting the system in preparation for what's coming. Also voters won't accept the changes required, most aren't even willing to pay another $100 per year according to one poll. So, basically liberal democratic capitalism has failed.

But lucky for us, there are other ways to organize society. Some kind of totalitarian eco-socialism could work. It could keep a good percentage of the world population alive if adopted. At a lower standard of living for sure, but if the alternative is just dying it seems preferable to me.

It's true that a revolution is unlikely to happen now in developed countries. But there's a concept in nuclear war called a decapitation strike where a country strikes first at the leadership of the enemy nation to stop it from resisting or retaliating. I don't understand why scientists seem so disorganized politically when things are so serious. It's maybe a few thousand people in charge of the major world institutions. Scientists know chemistry, they can make stuff that could be useful as far as those people go. Like.. I don't know... an aerosolized MDMA-like chemical that could be released at Davos type events and suddenly cause the politicians and bankers to self reflect and feel empathy and realize they need to change their behavior. Something like that.

Also there's always the chance of some kind of saviour. Like a superintelligent AI. Or benevolent aliens. Or even the lord Jesus himself. Who knows? The future is hard to predict. Really weird black swan type events can happen. And humans are good at solving problems in the eleventh hour too. Right now most people aren't personally affected by the climate change and ecological collapse, but when it does start to get in peoples' faces, we will get more creative.

Either way, it's pointless to be defeatist and nihilistic. What do you gain from that except mental illness? If things are truly hopeless, you're ruining your last good moments by obsessing about dark futures. If they are not hopeless, then you are destroying morale and encouraging people to give up, and that could turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy where people don't fight back because they feel everything is futile.

At this point though it's basically a math/physics/chem/bio problem though mate. Sure, maybe magic powers will fix everything but yeah. Enjoy the time you have, be kind and pursue any avenue for possibly helping things... but if I told you there was a realistic chance of things being hunky dory 50 years from now I'd be lying?

If that makes life meaningless or you're being defeatist by accepting the state of play then... okay, fine. Doesn't make it inaccurate. Thing is numbers are numbers whether we like it or not? The time to 'fight back' was decades ago, now we deal with consequences as best we can.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 14:34

tuyop: Sep 15, 2006; Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted; Fun Shoe

Stoner Sloth posted:

The time to 'fight back' was decades ago, now we deal with consequences as best we can.

Dealing with the consequences is still a loving fight though. The default in the west seems to be movement toward fascism with closed borders and trade wars and all sorts of bullshit that does nothing to actually help the environment or anyone who isn�t rich as gently caress in the north.

A lot of the remaining fight hinges on local, municipal solutions. We have to do something about food security, develop resilient communities so that we don�t loving eat each other when things get hard, shore up our life-supporting infrastructure, figure out communal ways of living so we can reduce consumption and live off of an energy and water network that is greatly diminished by disasters it was never built to withstand, welcome displaced peoples and put them to work, try to protect the little chunks of the biosphere we can, protect our communities from powers that would act against their best interests, stuff like that. There�s a lot of fighting to be done for each of these solutions and none of it involves somehow �stopping� climate change.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 14:44

Shifty Nipples: Apr 8, 2007

Nail Rat posted:

Nonsense! There's a wide variety of commercial snack foods which have virtually no natural ingredients.

Supernatural snack foods. Spooky.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 16:51

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

zenguitarman posted:

Is there any reason to read The Uninhabitable Earth beyond "We're hosed and here's why"? Like, I know we're hosed and why, but is it just going to show me new ways we're hosed or does it have chapters on solutions or advocacy, stuff like that? I just listened to the David Chang podcast with the author and thought I should read this, but thought if it's all doom and gloom, I'm not sure what the point is for me?

yes. Uninhabitable Earth is good because it's actually a fairly optimistic book. it, correctly, points out its a sliding scale of doom. people focus on the binary but that isn't the case. every +0.1c = more doom and even averting some tenths of a c would vastly reduce prematurely to unnecessary extra suffering and death. just because we can't avert like actual bad things like genociding of hundo millons of people and society turning into children of men type poo poo doesn't mean thousands to millions suffering less isn't a goal worth aiming for.

Marsupialization posted:

Either way, it's pointless to be defeatist and nihilistic. What do you gain from that except mental illness? If things are truly hopeless, you're ruining your last good moments by obsessing about dark futures. If they are not hopeless, then you are destroying morale and encouraging people to give up, and that could turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy where people don't fight back because they feel everything is futile.

also this

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:03

Conspiratiorist: Nov 12, 2015; 17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the ~~fifth~~ ~~sixth~~ some day

redleader posted:

i'll at least grant that ecofascism is possible

I fully expect over the next decade for the current crop of neolibshits to transition to the type of ineffectual ecofascism that promises to keep up their living standards at the expense of the poor.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:19

Admiral Ray: May 17, 2014; Proud Musk and Dogecoin fanboy

Ecofascism doesn't exist, it's just fascism with some lip service to "living space", otherwise known as regular fascism.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:23

StabbinHobo: Oct 18, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

blood and topsoil

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:28

Paradoxish: Dec 19, 2003; Will you stop going crazy in there?

Xaris posted:

yes. Uninhabitable Earth is good because it's actually a fairly optimistic book. it, correctly, points out its a sliding scale of doom. people focus on the binary but that isn't the case. every +0.1c = more doom and even averting some tenths of a c would vastly reduce prematurely to unnecessary extra suffering and death.

Right.

This is a problem that's unbounded, except for certain hilariously unlikely possibilities. We're probably locked into "pretty bad." We're not necessarily locked into scenarios that are worse than that. More importantly, adapting and mitigating is a major fight too. Just because we're probably in for a pretty bad fall doesn't mean that we don't have some amount of control over how the landing goes.

This is actually what makes a certain strain of optimism that pops up in this thread from time to time so frustrating. We really can't save things as they are and pretending that's possible is just a huge waste of time that gets in the way of advocating for real solutions. If you want to be optimistic, you need to take "things are hosed" as your starting point.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:30

Funky See Funky Do: Aug 20, 2013; STILL TRYING HARD

Marsupialization posted:

Might as well start doing heroin if the situation is so hopeless.

But things could still change. It's a political problem more than anything. With the technology we have now we could at least keep certain parts of the world somewhat inhabitable and avoid extinction. But the politics are a problem. The ruling class is mostly ignoring it or just looting the system in preparation for what's coming. Also voters won't accept the changes required, most aren't even willing to pay another $100 per year according to one poll. So, basically liberal democratic capitalism has failed.

But lucky for us, there are other ways to organize society. Some kind of totalitarian eco-socialism could work. It could keep a good percentage of the world population alive if adopted. At a lower standard of living for sure, but if the alternative is just dying it seems preferable to me.

It's true that a revolution is unlikely to happen now in developed countries. But there's a concept in nuclear war called a decapitation strike where a country strikes first at the leadership of the enemy nation to stop it from resisting or retaliating. I don't understand why scientists seem so disorganized politically when things are so serious. It's maybe a few thousand people in charge of the major world institutions. Scientists know chemistry, they can make stuff that could be useful as far as those people go. Like.. I don't know... an aerosolized MDMA-like chemical that could be released at Davos type events and suddenly cause the politicians and bankers to self reflect and feel empathy and realize they need to change their behavior. Something like that.

Also there's always the chance of some kind of saviour. Like a superintelligent AI. Or benevolent aliens. Or even the lord Jesus himself. Who knows? The future is hard to predict. Really weird black swan type events can happen. And humans are good at solving problems in the eleventh hour too. Right now most people aren't personally affected by the climate change and ecological collapse, but when it does start to get in peoples' faces, we will get more creative.

Either way, it's pointless to be defeatist and nihilistic. What do you gain from that except mental illness? If things are truly hopeless, you're ruining your last good moments by obsessing about dark futures. If they are not hopeless, then you are destroying morale and encouraging people to give up, and that could turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy where people don't fight back because they feel everything is futile.

Woah I never thought about it like that before. Scientists do know chemistry. Do you ever think that like, if we all just concentrated really hard that we could like, change the world with our minds? Y'know? I saw this documentary where they changed the structure of a water atom by playing Tool albums at it and like maybe we could do that with all the carbon.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:34

Ihmemies: Oct 6, 2012

I will support a totalitarian/facist attempt at saving the planet if they seem to have a reasonable chance of success. I won't support some random small groups of weirdos though.

While waiting for that miracle to happen, I'm destroying the planet with my co2-belching Audi S8.

A recent "study" published in Finland claimed that not making children saves 58,6 tons of co2 yearly. My car produces around 3,4 tons yearly from 10000km of driving so actually I'm quite eco friendly when driving my car instead of banging women

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:36

Telsa Cola: Aug 19, 2011; No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Ihmemies posted:

A recent "study" published in Finland claimed that not making children saves 58,6 tons of co2 yearly. My car produces around 3,4 tons yearly from 10000km of driving so actually I'm quite eco friendly when driving my car instead of banging women

Somebody can make the needed joke better than I can.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:41

Shima Honnou: Dec 1, 2010; The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit; College Slice

It's a good thing most of the governments and corporations of the world are slamming the brakes instead of the freedom molecule pedal to the floor.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:44

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

quote:

Also there's always the chance of some kind of saviour. Like a superintelligent AI. Or benevolent aliens. Or even the lord Jesus himself. Who knows?

lol

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:49

Admiral Ray: May 17, 2014; Proud Musk and Dogecoin fanboy

Ihmemies posted:

I will support a totalitarian/facist attempt at saving the planet if they seem to have a reasonable chance of success. I won't support some random small groups of weirdos though.

While waiting for that miracle to happen, I'm destroying the planet with my co2-belching Audi S8.

A recent "study" published in Finland claimed that not making children saves 58,6 tons of co2 yearly. My car produces around 3,4 tons yearly from 10000km of driving so actually I'm quite eco friendly when driving my car instead of banging women

Ah, the environmentally celibate, the encel.

Admiral Ray fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jun 27, 2019

# ? Jun 27, 2019 17:49

bowser: Apr 7, 2007

Which major global supply chains will be the first to fail due to climate collapse? I don't think the general public will start giving a poo poo until that starts happening.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:00

Morbus: May 18, 2004

Gitro posted:

alein jesus/domes 2024

In this thread we've gone from denial, to bargaining, to anger, to despair. Now, finally, we arrive.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:03

StabbinHobo: Oct 18, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Ihmemies posted:

I will support a totalitarian/facist attempt at saving ... my co2-belching Audi S8.

i'm tellin y'all, the boomer deniers are childs play compared to how hyper reactionary the gen-x car guys are gonna get.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:07

yaffle: Sep 15, 2002; Flapdoodle

bowser posted:

Which major global supply chains will be the first to fail due to climate collapse? I don't think the general public will start giving a poo poo until that starts happening.

Fish. All the fish will be gone.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:09

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Tree Bucket posted:

I look forward to catching this game (once I've worked out which bits of America correspond with the climate in my corner of Australia.)

On the subject of a game built around collapse and decay, there was an interesting interview with the designers of one of the Civilization games. They were hoping to include some more realistic "decline and fall" style elements, but appropriately enough discovered that players tended to disengage the instant their Numbers stopped Going Up. I think the latest AI may even have been programmed to avoid attack cities because for the majority of players, losing one city means an instant quit.

I'm doing a mix of a visual novel and Oregon Trail gameplay since that's what I can afford.

Because I was in mobile games from the start, a really good art house is giving me a great deal.

I do think a sim type game would also work. Chris Crawford did "Balance of the Planet" a while back, that sort of game might be a good sequel to this climate refugee one.

Trivia: I was a playtester for Chris's Tanktics and Leagonaire games. (Yeah, I'm that old).

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:13

Admiral Ray: May 17, 2014; Proud Musk and Dogecoin fanboy

yaffle posted:

Fish. All the fish will be gone.

Replaced with squids, which are doing really well right now.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:13

Rectal Death Adept: Jun 20, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

Marsupialization posted:

Might as well start doing heroin if the situation is so hopeless.

But things could still change. It's a political problem more than anything. With the technology we have now we could at least keep certain parts of the world somewhat inhabitable and avoid extinction. But the politics are a problem. The ruling class is mostly ignoring it or just looting the system in preparation for what's coming. Also voters won't accept the changes required, most aren't even willing to pay another $100 per year according to one poll. So, basically liberal democratic capitalism has failed.

But lucky for us, there are other ways to organize society. Some kind of totalitarian eco-socialism could work. It could keep a good percentage of the world population alive if adopted. At a lower standard of living for sure, but if the alternative is just dying it seems preferable to me.

It's true that a revolution is unlikely to happen now in developed countries. But there's a concept in nuclear war called a decapitation strike where a country strikes first at the leadership of the enemy nation to stop it from resisting or retaliating. I don't understand why scientists seem so disorganized politically when things are so serious. It's maybe a few thousand people in charge of the major world institutions. Scientists know chemistry, they can make stuff that could be useful as far as those people go. Like.. I don't know... an aerosolized MDMA-like chemical that could be released at Davos type events and suddenly cause the politicians and bankers to self reflect and feel empathy and realize they need to change their behavior. Something like that.

Also there's always the chance of some kind of saviour. Like a superintelligent AI. Or benevolent aliens. Or even the lord Jesus himself. Who knows? The future is hard to predict. Really weird black swan type events can happen. And humans are good at solving problems in the eleventh hour too. Right now most people aren't personally affected by the climate change and ecological collapse, but when it does start to get in peoples' faces, we will get more creative.

This wild "anything is possible" optimism was way more prevalent in older versions of this thread about ten years ago. There were even thread regulars whos answer to every worsening report was "Technology!"

If only we could actually have some of those older reports still happen. The people in extreme denial about the lightly bad reports of the past aren't any more noble than people who were real from the start.

quote:

Either way, it's pointless to be defeatist and nihilistic. What do you gain from that except mental illness? If things are truly hopeless, you're ruining your last good moments by obsessing about dark futures. If they are not hopeless, then you are destroying morale and encouraging people to give up, and that could turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy where people don't fight back because they feel everything is futile.

Not everyone is the same. I find being realistic about what is happening to be reassuring. It's a reminder to care about the things that matter to me or will matter to those i love. Things that will actually happen to them. My descendants aren't really helped if i live in extreme denial of the truth and act like I'll have a mental breakdown if I try to be remotely honest about the situation and just pretend magic will save us because it has to and i can't conceive of a world where it doesn't.

Associating realism with nihilism and mental illness is your baggage not mine.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:17

Admiral Ray: May 17, 2014; Proud Musk and Dogecoin fanboy

Marsupialization posted:

And humans are good at solving problems in the eleventh hour too.

Hahaha, what? What "problems" have we solved at the eleventh hour?

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:20

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Admiral Ray posted:

Hahaha, what? What "problems" have we solved at the eleventh hour?

There have been many outright crisis we've figured out at the last second. One was running out of islands of bird poo poo.

I don't see us figuring this one out though.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:24

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Admiral Ray posted:

Hahaha, what? What "problems" have we solved at the eleventh hour?

The one that comes to mind is "Blowing stuff up better."

My thinking is that some level of climate apocalypse is unavoidable, but we can influence just how horrid it is and we can prepare for that world (as best as we can).

Note: The Mayor of Miami touting his "Miami Forever" efforts to deal with sea level rise is not a good example.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:30

Rip Testes: Jan 29, 2004; I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception.

I was thinking about tree planting and wondering how when civilization starts to melt down whether humans cutting down what's left for fuel, cooking and warmth would be a thing and to what extent.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:31

Stoner Sloth: Apr 2, 2019

Actually we just need to focus on building AI controlled time capsules/arks all over the place that can store genetic material and then acts as vast artificial wombs to birth new life onto the planet in centuries or millennia time and eventually also breed new humans with access to all our knowledge and preserved nuclear reactors to kick start human civilization and a functional ecosystem back into place after we wipe it and ourselves out.

If only we had some sort of structure we could use to encase and guard these miraculous technological saviours... perhaps some kind of half spherical protective design :thunk:

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:36

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Stoner Sloth posted:

Actually we just need to focus on building AI controlled time capsules/arks all over the place that can store genetic material and then acts as vast artificial wombs to birth new life onto the planet in centuries or millennia time and eventually also breed new humans with access to all our knowledge and preserved nuclear reactors to kick start human civilization and a functional ecosystem back into place after we wipe it and ourselves out.

If only we had some sort of structure we could use to encase and guard these miraculous technological saviours... perhaps some kind of half spherical protective design

Have you seen this new Netflix movie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm5F4Wj_fUE

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:39

plushpuffin: Jan 10, 2003; Fratercula arctica; Nap Ghost

Rip Testes posted:

I was thinking about tree planting and wondering how when civilization starts to melt down whether humans cutting down what's left for fuel, cooking and warmth would be a thing and to what extent.

yep

# ? Jun 27, 2019 18:58

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Nightfall owns and yeah it'll probably be exactly like that honestly except instead of the stars breaking everyone's brains it'll just be the collapse of civilization and Jesus never came. Plus the Mormons with some fortified compound at the end of it all.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 19:32

golden bubble: Jun 3, 2011; yospos

https://twitter.com/mioana/status/1143176205249593344?s=19

# ? Jun 27, 2019 19:47

Goons Are Gifts: Jan 1, 1970

Stoner Sloth posted:

Actually we just need to focus on building AI controlled time capsules/arks all over the place that can store genetic material and then acts as vast artificial wombs to birth new life onto the planet in centuries or millennia time and eventually also breed new humans with access to all our knowledge and preserved nuclear reactors to kick start human civilization and a functional ecosystem back into place after we wipe it and ourselves out.

If only we had some sort of structure we could use to encase and guard these miraculous technological saviours... perhaps some kind of half spherical protective design

While it appears that I'm not expert in this, we do have one ITT that can elaborate on this, but I agree that these structures should probably exist, be underground and maybe also on Mars, so that Judge Dredd technology can solve our problems.

Only this time they will be built by an AI Mega Jesus. That's hope we can hold onto.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 20:10

Trainee PornStar: Jul 20, 2006; I'm just an inbetweener

Goons Are Great posted:

so that Judge Dredd technology can solve our problems.

I was a big 2000ad fan as a kid & can remember being about 10 years old & realising that there is no way gonna be megacities/cursed earth/etc.. in the next 20 years, I was crushed lol
Turns out it's only off by 30-40 or so years.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 20:22

Accretionist: Nov 7, 2012; I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

redleader posted:

i'll at least grant that ecofascism is possible

Eco-Stalinism sounds better.

Because it's like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoQb8vb4blA&t=98s

That's the way it is.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 20:37

Mazzagatti2Hotty: Jan 23, 2012; JON JONES APOLOGIST #3

I'm actually tempted to purchase archives so I can reread that climate thread were that one totally not a denier dude would nevertheless pop up to argue "the science doesn't support that!!!" for every single report that didn't fit safely into the 1.5 c by 2100 scenario, because lmao.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 21:21

Doorknob Slobber: Sep 10, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

bowser posted:

Which major global supply chains will be the first to fail due to climate collapse? I don't think the general public will start giving a poo poo until that starts happening.

a big war will probably be the first real uh oh moment, the US is already teetering on the edge of war in various places around the globe in part because of climate change(and also good brain politicians) and as more places buckle under heatwaves and food shortages and other environmental disasters those stressors just get worse.

edit - for us in the thread we've mostly already had our uh oh moments though

Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jun 27, 2019

# ? Jun 27, 2019 22:32

Lampsacus: Oct 21, 2008

Tree Bucket posted:

I look forward to catching this game (once I've worked out which bits of America correspond with the climate in my corner of Australia.)

On the subject of a game built around collapse and decay, there was an interesting interview with the designers of one of the Civilization games. They were hoping to include some more realistic "decline and fall" style elements, but appropriately enough discovered that players tended to disengage the instant their Numbers stopped Going Up. I think the latest AI may even have been programmed to avoid attack cities because for the majority of players, losing one city means an instant quit.

When I was 16 and a civfanatics mod, all I ever did was give people warnings for derailing threads to curse Sid Meier for the RNG/losing a unit. Because once the thread started descending into that, ugh.

Civfanatics players were funny to me because they were all old white dudes who 'loved history' but what that meant was the roman empire, ww2 and economic growth. The civ games are basically cookieclickerlikes.

I think 'numbers must go up' have their place in games. But only as an element perhaps? I can think of a bunch of games that don't rely on it.

Hidden Agenda (1988) is badass and an underrated gem. You are the newly installed president of a developing country that's unstable as gently caress. And you are trying to hold onto power by placating as many demographic groups as possible. You don't win with a numbers go up type situation. You just kinda cling on to office for as long as possible until an ex-army officer slits your throat or there is a populist revolt. Its really very good. And definitely is the type of educational game that is relevant to climate change as oppose to civ. Two thumbs up, way up!

Actually even Oregon Trail works right. Yeah! We don't need numbers going up. We just need to be on the brink of collapse. Er, in our games.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 23:07

Marsupialization: Aug 14, 2015

Yeah, why fascism when there are better ideas? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what this forum considers ecofascism, but fascism in general places way too much value on the idea of the nation and the race when both concepts are kind of weak I think. Also there's the whole genocide problem. From what I've heard from 4chan ecofashists, their proposed "solutions" would make Hitler look like a pacifist. They love to blame overpopulation in the developing world for climate change while totally ignoring the overconsumption and waste created by the West. Even if they did get their wish and managed to genocide the whole developing world, it would at best just delay the inevitable. This way of living is still fundamentally incompatible with long-term human survival. If it's not climate change that kills us off it would just be some other problem in the future, like fresh water and energy supply issues. We need to create a sustainable and equal society if we want to last over the long term. Not just exterminate the developing world and keep polluting.

Anyways, even if you ignore the possibility of friendly skynet and ancient aliens and the glorious return of Our Lord, there are still some ways we could save some parts of civilization. It doesn't have to be a full die-off and return to hunter-gatherer living. Just for an example, imagine that we could save at least 50% of the world population and prevent the most terrible outcomes if we reduced our standard of living to late nineteenth century levels (plus keeping a lot of our technology that can be used sustainably) and raised the developing world to the same level. That's not so bad is it?

quote:

Eco-Stalinism

Yes, this is good. Stalin took Russia from being a backwater developing nation to a superpower within a decade or two. I'm not saying the USSR was exactly good on environmental issues. It was pretty much terrible, but I feel like there's a lot more room for sustainability in socialism than there is in capitalism or fascism. So how about a green five year plan? Like what if we just built hundreds and hundreds of breeder reactors and then used them to power carbon capturing machines and indoor vertical farms and stuff like that? Yeah I know, no one in power right now would make this kind of proposal. But there are ways of removing bad leaders. They might not be as easy or legal as voting, but they do exist.

# ? Jun 27, 2019 23:09

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 7, 2024 16:09

StabbinHobo: Oct 18, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

"from what I've heard from 4chan"

kindly gently caress the gently caress off

# ? Jun 27, 2019 23:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Climate Change: There are no jobs on a dead planet

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