|
4chan extends far beyond 4chan, often into real life. "ecofascism" is what a lovely boomer gently caress who supports literal fascists has been saying for the past thirty years whenever someone says acid rain is bad, it is a thought-terminating cliche.
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 23:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 17:29 |
|
|
"kindly gently caress" I love out of context quotes. That's the only place I've ever seen real eco-fascists explaining their "ideas" before. Is there some different version? Some book that explains it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 23:24
|
|
|
Shifty Nipples posted:Supernatural snack foods. Spooky. It's a quote from the final Dinosaurs episode but I think it was far too obscure. It's followed by "We can't live on ho hos!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
StabbinHobo posted:"from what I've heard from 4chan" Nah nah, he's saying don't use, "eco-fascism," becuase it's already taken (by channers). Eco-Stalinism is about sustainability, eating the rich, vast oceans of khrushchyovkas and fierce dance squads. Use Eco-Stalinism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 23:46
|
|
|
On the subject on individual contributions to combat climate change I was thinking the other the other day we’re missing a big one - housing. And not just in a single family suburban horn way but just overall. No one should really ever be living alone in an efficiency or one bedroom. We shouldn’t have individual washer and dryer for every unit and kitchens should probably be communal. Maybe even bathrooms too. Of course, it’s small pickings in the scheme of things but I’ve never seen it discussed but it’ll change many folks who highly value their independence.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 00:06
|
|
|
Tab8715 posted:On the subject on individual contributions to combat climate change I was thinking the other the other day we’re missing a big one - housing. if you wanted to take this vague (and fairly loving dumb) idea and actually google around for a few minutes, read some poo poo, watch some poo poo, and come back and post about how you think energy efficiency in housing could be better adresssed by <your insight> by all loving means but stooooooooooooop just posting one dumb loving gump thought after another. contribute or lurk, we don't need a simpletons stream of conscious.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 00:12
|
|
|
Another huge and unacknowledged problem is individual clothing. It is extremely wasteful for people to not share the clothes on their backs, and we'd be in a much better position if everyone in a shared apartment building or whatever could borrow clothes from a central repository. But that merely reduces the impact from clothing. Really, we have no choice but to enforce nudity wherever and whenever feasible
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 00:35
|
|
|
Manufacturing is easily a quarter of the worlds carbon emissions especially for steel and concrete. Would it help if some of us decided to forgo the luxury of solo living that includes not only the building itself but all the odds and ends like dishwashers, microwaves, etc. which totals up to tens millions of just things that sit nearly all the time? Of course, it is small pickings. Incredibly small but isn’t it something? Maybe I’m completely wrong but given the above I don’t see it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 00:38
|
|
|
Another huge and unacknowledged problem is individual bodies. It is extremely wasteful for people to not share their backs, and we'd all be in a better position if everyone in a shared apartment building or whatever could borrow bodies from a central repository. But that merely reduces the impact from human bodies. Really, we have no choice but to enforce decapitation whenever and wherever feasible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 00:41
|
|
|
Tab8715 posted:Apologies if this had been discussed previously in the thread but what is the carbon neutral solution for ships, airplanes and heavy machinery like tractors? Tab8715 posted:Is any Country actually building modern cities that aren't car centric? Tab8715 posted:Are there any maps that show coastline projections in 2040 and 2060? I'm picking those years because ideally I'd be retired, well-off if not wealthy and spend my wonder years traveling the world Tab8715 posted:Is anyone able to link sources or go into more detail on 150f heat waves? Tab8715 posted:Is there a simple bullet point list of what cities are essentially inhabitable in 2060? Tab8715 posted:What Country today is closest to actual textbook definition communism? Tab8715 posted:I am correct the earliest we will see substantial climate changes won’t happen until 2040? Tab8715 posted:Question, Tab8715 posted:My question, what are all the billionaires of the world doing about this in the meanwhile? Are they building their own fallout shelters or what? Tab8715 posted:Is global warming merely just Evolution or Natural Selection in process? As in, the things that are dying are dying because this is the new world just like the Dinosaurs died. Tab8715 posted:Does anyone have some sources to when we hit 4C? Tab8715 posted:Is there a world climate map? Tab8715 posted:Has anyone ever done research on how a $5500 Carbon Ton Tax - which is the amount recommended by the IPCC would impact the economy and our day-to-day lives? Tab8715 posted:Has there been any thought as to how things will play out if we miss the Paris Accord or worse? Tab8715 posted:Hell, didn’t the IPCC increase the estimate of severe weather events from one to 3-5 a year? Tab8715 posted:Dumb question, Tab8715 posted:How much forest is left before it’s all burned away? Tab8715 posted:Are there more or less tornados with global warming? Tab8715 posted:Haven’t there been other environmental catastrophes, something in Russia where they tried to drain an ocean? Tab8715 posted:What's the general consensus on the common conversion of coal power to natural gas or liquefied natural gas? Tab8715 posted:Is there enough room in a individual's carbon footprint for dogs? Tab8715 posted:Questions for the thread, Tab8715 posted:Question for thread, Tab8715 posted:What’s the tl;dr on Harper? Tab8715 posted:What would happen to the planet if all the methane or nitrous oxide bubbles up into the atmosphere? Tab8715 posted:Couldn’t we drill the methane out of the permafrost before it melts and capture it somehow? Tab8715 posted:Aren’t giant squid on the verge of extinction? Tab8715 posted:What would a carbon or gas tax look like to actual consumers? Tab8715 posted:And are you referring to The Unabombers manfesto? Tab8715 posted:Can we even physically build a sea wall that’ll handle a 6-12 meter rise? Tab8715 posted:Are feedback effects accounted for the reports from the IPCC? Tab8715 posted:Is there any data or good rebuttal points for those that claim climate change is really an overpopulation problem? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 00:55
|
|
|
Complications posted:Another huge and unacknowledged problem is individual bodies. It is extremely wasteful for people to not share their backs, and we'd all be in a better position if everyone in a shared apartment building or whatever could borrow bodies from a central repository. Altered Carbon mixed with this Eco-Stalinism
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 01:29
|
|
|
It astounds me that I have half the post count of someone who joined this thread after I ate my epic prob.  E: I'm not making a comment on that either way, Avs, I'm just surprised I'm nowhere close to the most frequent poster in here. Rime fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Jun 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 02:01
|
|
|
leave tab alone. he is new to this whole fiasco and very genuine about wanting to contribute, and while his contributions might seem simplistic to the experts itt they get conversation going and also provide an opportunity to explain concepts for the benefits of lurkers who might also be new to this whole fiasco and too shy to ask questions. he's cool
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 02:46
|
|
|
Yeah seriously you dweebs. Our civilization might be circling the drain but that doesn't mean we can't be nice to other people/posters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 03:06
|
|
|
I've been lurking for a few months, and I'm really confused by the tone of the conversations in this thread. It feels like every few pages, things swing back and forth between "everything helps even if things getting worse is inevitable and activism rules" and "lol it's hopeless to imagine we'll accomplish anything but do whatever makes you feel better". Somebody makes a post about the importance of not descending into nihilism and everyone seems to agree, and then a week later someone does basically the same thing and then gets picked apart and mocked. People talk about the importance of raising awareness and taking ownership of your emission choices in your own life, but then someone asks questions about those same things and gets told to educate themselves on their own. Everyone talks about how it's the height of naïveté to imagine that things will be okay even within a couple decades, but when I posted a while ago about how I should respond to this collapse as a medication-dependent person, I got told I was worrying too much. Maybe I'm being a total tone-deaf idiot, here, or or am too ignorant of the history of these threads to understand the way I should be framing these conversations? But I feel like I have less of an idea what is the right way to approach personal climate change action/preparation/coping than I did before I started reading it. PoorWeather fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jun 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 03:22
|
|
|
Tab8715 posted:On the subject on individual contributions to combat climate change I was thinking the other the other day we’re missing a big one - housing. Tab8715 posted:Manufacturing is easily a quarter of the worlds carbon emissions especially for steel and concrete. Yes, you’re correct but it’s also not really the whole picture. It’s going to be a nonstarter to start mandating hotbunking for 1bdrm middle-class folks while fuckers like Drake fly their jet around Toronto to celebrate sportsball victories and burn the equivalent of tens of households’ yearly emissions in that one stunt. The good news is that you’re thinking about what will probably be the norm if we somehow avoid extincting ourselves. We’ll need communal and shared living arrangements and we have to figure out how to live in those situations sooner rather than later. Just in case.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 03:31
|
|
|
You're on the Titanic. The lifeboats are gone and even if they weren't, you aren't rich enough to get in one. Really what it comes down to is what you want to do with the time that's left. Lash together a makeshift raft? Sure! Gorge yourself on pastries in the kitchen? Have at it. Sing a hymn? Good idea. Hug people and console them in their last minutes? Why not! Go to the stern and ride this out for as long as possible, marvelling at the enormous propellers? If you want! But the worst thing you could do is run around panicking and screaming. Once you internalize what climate change "means" in the context of your life as it's been lived so far, you have a duty to at least be deliberate and purposeful with your actions, whatever they are. Accept what's happening with some kind of serenity and go forward from there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 03:36
|
|
|
sitchensis posted:You're on the Titanic. The lifeboats are gone and even if they weren't, you aren't rich enough to get in one. I believe the correct answer is to calmly and deliberately catch, skin alive and eat the stupid, selfish rich bastards who crashed the ship despite all warnings to turn away from disaster and then drilled holes in all the life boats. Comedy option: Build a dome out of the furniture.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 03:47
|
|
|
sitchensis posted:You're on the Titanic. The lifeboats are gone and even if they weren't, you aren't rich enough to get in one. The problem with this analogy are the people who gorge themselves on pastries, ie. the business as usual scenario where you keep driving your car and eating beef and flying everywhere and just enjoy life before it falls apart (or even accelerating your consumption). This is reasonable to do on the Titanic and it might even be understandable if you really, truly believe there is no longer anything that can be done to even limit the climate catastrophe, but it's where a Zen-like acceptance approach falls down, if you think people living business as usual are in any way a problem. If not, sure, but then why not just become a full on denier and tap out of the thread and all climate news, you'll probably feel better for that too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 03:48
|
|
|
Well, I mean, that's the thing, right? If you fully internalize what Climate Change means, then one option is to just go hog wild and have a Bacchanalian orgy of excess. At least you would be doing it with some kind of reasoning, rather than just doing it mindlessly. You'd hope that most people aware of the extent and seriousness of the issue would be more mindful than that, but I can't blame them if that's the path they want to go down. Collectively, if every person on earth were to come to the realization of what's about happen and then went down that same path, yeah, we'd have a pretty serious issue and deserve what's coming for all of us. That's where you'd want some sort of government action to force eco-austerity on everyone. But given that our systems of governance appear to be completely incapable of handling or even communicating the scale of this problem and are simultaneously fully captured by the fossil fuel industry and the wealthy, I don't have much faith in that occurring. So, yeah, knock yourself out and eat those pastries if you want. sitchensis fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jun 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 04:03
|
|
|
Part of the problem is the timeframe. The Bacchanalian excess sounds fun, but if the world doesn't end in October I will have spent all my money on maenads and then I'll be broke, homeless AND living in a world doomed to climate catastrophe. As plenty of other posters have said, one of the most annoying aspects of civilization dissolving is that we still have to pay bills in the meantime.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 04:21
|
|
|
sitchensis posted:You're on the Titanic. The lifeboats are gone and even if they weren't, you aren't rich enough to get in one. This post: good asking questions about stuff: bad got it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 04:23
|
|
|
Why the poo poo are any of you dumping on the idea of communal living? Giving up our individual living spaces is going to be essential for our loving survival. Hell when we start dealing with the massive food issues due to rampant crop failures and livestock and fishery die offs were probably going to have to abandon the he idea of buying our groceries individually, we'll no longer be able to afford to tolerate the food waste we see in our society.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 04:29
|
|
|
I'm sure I'll get my head bitten off for saying this, but I do believe that our species has the potential* to decarbonise, adapt, and even capture enough of our emissions so that billions don't die and a sustainable global civilisation manages to continue. What I'm struggling with is that humanity has chosen not to do that, because a bunch of us want to die with more possessions than each other. *As in, the sole focus of all human activity would be to solving the climate change problems we're facing
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 04:31
|
|
|
PoorWeather posted:I've been lurking for a few months, and I'm really confused by the tone of the conversations in this thread. It feels like every few pages, things swing back and forth between "everything helps even if things getting worse is inevitable and activism rules" and "lol it's hopeless to imagine we'll accomplish anything but do whatever makes you feel better". Somebody makes a post about the importance of not descending into nihilism and everyone seems to agree, and then a week later someone does basically the same thing and then gets picked apart and mocked. People talk about the importance of raising awareness and taking ownership of your emission choices in your own life, but then someone asks questions about those same things and gets told to educate themselves on their own. Everyone talks about how it's the height of naïveté to imagine that things will be okay even within a couple decades, but when I posted a while ago about how I should respond to this collapse as a medication-dependent person, I got told I was worrying too much. No, I think that’s good summary. The flow the of thread shows how difficult of a problem climate change happens to be and eludes to the complexity of politics as whole. Many will say for whatever political problem the solutions aren’t enough while others say the solution is completely wrong. In the case of global warming Republicans don’t even believe the problem exists in the first place. tuyop posted:Yes, you’re correct but it’s also not really the whole picture. It’s going to be a nonstarter to start mandating hotbunking for 1bdrm middle-class folks while fuckers like Drake fly their jet around Toronto to celebrate sportsball victories and burn the equivalent of tens of households’ yearly emissions in that one stunt. What’s kind of interesting is they have a few of these communities in the Bay Area. Granted, it’s to deal with the cost of living and traffic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 04:44
|
|
|
Mr Chips posted:I'm sure I'll get my head bitten off for saying this, but I do believe that our species has the potential* to decarbonise, adapt, and even capture enough of our emissions so that billions don't die and a sustainable global civilisation manages to continue. What I'm struggling with is that humanity has chosen not to do that, because a bunch of us want to die with more possessions than each other. Why would you get your head bitten off for saying that? I think the majority of people in this thread agree that this problem is technically solvable with sufficient political will. It's no longer practically solvable because our systems don't move quickly enough and no one is willing to accept the cost. Edit- Like, the reason we make fun of CCS in this thread isn't because it's technically impossible. The science is basic as hell and scaling it up isn't hard at all... as long as you accept that you're spending incredible amounts of money to turn the air into rocks which you are then going to bury and that the whole scheme offers no economic advantage at all. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jun 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 04:48
|
|
|
Mr Chips posted:I'm sure I'll get my head bitten off for saying this, but I do believe that our species has the potential* to decarbonise, adapt, and even capture enough of our emissions so that billions don't die and a sustainable global civilisation manages to continue. What I'm struggling with is that humanity has chosen not to do that, because a bunch of us want to die with more possessions than each other. The literal number one priority for the entirety of humanity should be decarbonization and environmental sustainability. As someone who’s in tech I’ve meet some incredibly bright people and their job is developing mobile games like Candy Crush or selling ads on Google. That’s wasted talent. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 04:49
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:Why would you get your head bitten off for saying that?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 05:00
|
|
|
Tab8715 posted:The literal number one priority for the entirety of humanity should be decarbonization and environmental sustainability. As someone who’s in tech I’ve meet some incredibly bright people and their job is developing mobile games like Candy Crush or selling ads on Google. That’s wasted talent. Uhm excuse me but the MARKET clearly values google ads higher than whatever you're talking about so...... What you think you're smarter than the Invisible Hand??? Low prices, friend.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 05:06
|
|
|
PoorWeather posted:I've been lurking for a few months, and I'm really confused by the tone of the conversations in this thread. It feels like every few pages, things swing back and forth between "everything helps even if things getting worse is inevitable and activism rules" and "lol it's hopeless to imagine we'll accomplish anything but do whatever makes you feel better". Somebody makes a post about the importance of not descending into nihilism and everyone seems to agree, and then a week later someone does basically the same thing and then gets picked apart and mocked. People talk about the importance of raising awareness and taking ownership of your emission choices in your own life, but then someone asks questions about those same things and gets told to educate themselves on their own. Everyone talks about how it's the height of naïveté to imagine that things will be okay even within a couple decades, but when I posted a while ago about how I should respond to this collapse as a medication-dependent person, I got told I was worrying too much. I believe this is largely the result of people pinging back and forth between the bargaining and acceptance stages of grief, but since we are grieving for an even which has yet to occur there is no closure to end this cycle. You aren't wrong, I am aware of this state of affairs and my own participation in it but I honestly don't know what to say. We're dealing with a catastrophe so monumental that most people can't even comprehend it. This melts brains. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 05:26
|
|
|
Mr Chips posted:I've gone back and read some of the posts that were bothering me recently, maybe I'm picking conflating the negativity about the political/social aspects with negativity about the technical problem. People are negative about technical solutions to what is fundamentally a social and economic problem. The tools and methods all exist already, we just don't like them so we won't use them. We're also becoming more entrenched and resistant to solutions as the problem gets worse and the options get more unpleasant. What you're seeing in this thread is people being extremely negative about technological solutions that amount to magical fairy dust. You can spot these pretty easily, because they usually come close to claiming that we can solve climate change without any real cost at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 05:33
|
|
|
This thread is incredibly hostile to anything remotely positive which is quite odd when I’ve been simultaneously been following numerous actual climate scientists on twitter whom have dedicated their whole lives to this problem but still have faith. Imagine being alive in 1980 and studying this sort of stuff - everyone would think your absolutely crazy. Fast forward a few decades, nothing has been done and Trump is president. They along with DWS and the author of Falter believe things can be done. No one is arguing at all that’ll it be easy, cheap, etc. Personally, I think it’s going to cause an entire global revolution and if we get some amazing outcome the journey will not be enjoyable. Edit : On a second thought things do occasionally get bleak but you don’t seem them trying to shoot down those trying to make a difference even if it’s something crazy like Carbon Capture or little impact like becoming vegan. Excluding feedback effects. Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jun 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 05:51
|
|
|
PoorWeather posted:I've been lurking for a few months, and I'm really confused by the tone of the conversations in this thread. It feels like every few pages, things swing back and forth between "everything helps even if things getting worse is inevitable and activism rules" and "lol it's hopeless to imagine we'll accomplish anything but do whatever makes you feel better". Somebody makes a post about the importance of not descending into nihilism and everyone seems to agree, and then a week later someone does basically the same thing and then gets picked apart and mocked. People talk about the importance of raising awareness and taking ownership of your emission choices in your own life, but then someone asks questions about those same things and gets told to educate themselves on their own. Everyone talks about how it's the height of naïveté to imagine that things will be okay even within a couple decades, but when I posted a while ago about how I should respond to this collapse as a medication-dependent person, I got told I was worrying too much.  dozens of people at various stages are going to create a clusterfuck of a discussion like that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 05:53
|
|
|
I'm mad as hell and actually I am going to keep taking it because the only alternative is suicide and I can do that later if I want.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 06:36
|
|
|
Tab8715 posted:This thread is incredibly hostile to anything remotely positive which is quite odd when I’ve been simultaneously been following numerous actual climate scientists on twitter whom have dedicated their whole lives to this problem but still have faith. Imagine being alive in 1980 and studying this sort of stuff - everyone would think your absolutely crazy. Fast forward a few decades, nothing has been done and Trump is president. "synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, reliance, dependence; optimism, hopefulness, hope, expectation" None of these is necessarily rooted in reality.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 07:41
|
|
|
Tab8715 posted:On the subject on individual contributions to combat climate change I was thinking the other the other day we’re missing a big one - housing. People are talking about it. Everything should be communal. You shouldnt even have your own tv, computer, cellphone. The resources in making those devices isnt sustainable either from a carbon footprint level. You want internet you reserve a time at the library Also our communal living, transportation will need protected from the hellscape weve created. Underground is easiest. With added bonus that we can go all in on treating the atmosphere and land as a trash can for our waste. Then we can have mega mega reactors powering our artificial survival
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 08:00
|
|
|
tuyop posted:Yes, you’re correct but it’s also not really the whole picture. It’s going to be a nonstarter to start mandating hotbunking for 1bdrm middle-class folks while fuckers like Drake fly their jet around Toronto to celebrate sportsball victories and burn the equivalent of tens of households’ yearly emissions in that one stunt. Whatever we create for our survival will take decades to construct. And the closer we get to hellscape the harder it will be to coordinate people and have them cooperate. Over their instincts to survive at other peoples expense to save their family The governments need to start experimenting, building for the apocalypse now. thewalk fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jun 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 08:06
|
|
|
Rectal Death Adept posted:
I cycle through the 2,3 and 5 on a weekly basis
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 08:16
|
|
|
Mr Chips posted:I cycle through the 2,3 and 5 on a weekly basis Me too, would probably help if more of us set up shop on 4 for a while though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 08:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 17:29 |
|
|
honestly it's just that this is an emotionally charged thread, one of the most emotional on the whole forums, and sometimes in lieu of anyone better to take their rage out on goons tend to jump on each other. i've learnt to just say "misdirected goon rage again" and ignore it when it happens to me, but it's bad for the thread to drive out constructive posters with a genuine interest in the topic. we're not going to actually solve any of the major problems itt so it should be a place for information and education where asking questions is encouraged 
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 08:34
|
|