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Yeah. Basically, I think the key to understanding Third Impact is that it's a historical event and not a scientific process. Under the Third Impact umbrella, you've got SEELE's plan for it, Gendo's plan, the hypothetical Angel plan, and what happens. If you bring Adam, Lillith, the Lance, Evas and whatever else together*, you get a lot of incredible power. What you use that power for is up to the person sitting in the driver's seat. What they're all united by is that the energies involved will kill a lot of people and break down AT fields. * - seemingly you can lack some of the pieces and still get 'close enough.' SEELE laments the loss of the Lance but can proceed without it (maybe with the replica Lances as a somewhat-ok subsitute) and having less Evas than they want. Hard to tell if Gendo planned to involve Unit-01 and Shinji at all. The Angels maybe don't even need the Lance at all, and Gendo threw the Lance away to spite SEELE's plan.
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Jul 2, 2019 13:56
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are there people left in the world at the ends of the story? I'd always assumed in whatever version that with that endless sea of LCL, the planet's whole biomass had been converted and so Shinji was trapped outside the juice train and would either die there lonely OR while odds with Asuka
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Jul 2, 2019 14:25
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Zeruel posted:Don't forget the vulvas on the palms of her hands while she's cradling the Egg, and the Rei-souls that look like... yknow... I don't remember these, any similarities to the image of Shinji's hand or when Gendo absorbs Adam into the palm of his hand?
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Jul 2, 2019 14:25
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Covok posted:I didn't know that. That's interesting. I can't read that since, well, I am not from that country. So, when people said that's what they were, I had no way to disagree. also the death threat had nothing to do with the ending of the series it was from someone who saw Death & Rebirth and was mad that EoE wasn't out yet lol e:f,b Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 14:26
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Endorph posted:As an aside, I wonder if people are aware of the weird ways Anno's used 'autistic' as an insulting term when talking about otaku behavior he doesn't like, when they make posts like this.
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Jul 2, 2019 14:27
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grieving for Gandalf posted:are there people left in the world at the ends of the story? I'd always assumed in whatever version that with that endless sea of LCL, the planet's whole biomass had been converted and so Shinji was trapped outside the juice train and would either die there lonely OR while odds with Asuka As hypocritical as this might sound given my previous posting in this thread: given the highly symbolic and metaphorical nature of the story, I think this is the kind of question one is not meant to worry too much about. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 14:38
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grieving for Gandalf posted:are there people left in the world at the ends of the story? I'd always assumed in whatever version that with that endless sea of LCL, the planet's whole biomass had been converted and so Shinji was trapped outside the juice train and would either die there lonely OR while odds with Asuka "Don't worry. All living things have the ability to return to their original form... and the heart to go on living. Anywhere can be heaven as long as you have the will to live. After all, you're alive... and you can find the chance to achieve happiness anywhere. As long as the Sun, the Moon and the Earth exist, everything will be all right."
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Jul 2, 2019 15:57
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If Shinji, for all his issues, is capable of making the choice of leaving then pretty much anyone else is capable too. It might be instant for some people or take a while for others, but who even knows how the passage of time is perceived in the soup. Anno doesn't hate otaku, just a certain type of otaku. Being a nerd that focuses on their hobbies more than interacting with people is fine. Being someone who does that and then blames other people for rejecting you when you're the one making the choice of shutting yourself off from others is not. He's also not a huge fan of the wow cool robot crowd iirc, but again, you can like the robot and the tech it's when you do that while also ignoring the message that he doesn't like. He's a man that visibly shakes with fervour when talking about how the movie Char's Counterattack is a "cultural heirloom for future generations" because despite not knowing what was going on when he was working on it he basically had a religious experience when he saw it in theatres so he is under no illusions that he is not a huge nerd.
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Jul 2, 2019 16:35
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Hideki Anno has admitted to liking (and likely fapping to) Strike Witches. I avoid moe blob loli poo poo on principle of not being the lowest of the lows (lols don't @ me I'm being funny, mostly). Anyone who publicly calls themselves a fan is admitting to being a nerd. Just like when you start talking American comic runs by writer to MCU fans because you read the room wrong and soon find you're the biggest nerd/loser in the room. Everyone know what you be after that.
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Jul 2, 2019 16:48
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EthanSteele posted:Anno doesn't hate otaku, just a certain type of otaku. Being a nerd that focuses on their hobbies more than interacting with people is fine. Being someone who does that and then blames other people for rejecting you when you're the one making the choice of shutting yourself off from others is not. He's also not a huge fan of the wow cool robot crowd iirc, but again, you can like the robot and the tech it's when you do that while also ignoring the message that he doesn't like. He's a man that visibly shakes with fervour when talking about how the movie Char's Counterattack is a "cultural heirloom for future generations" because despite not knowing what was going on when he was working on it he basically had a religious experience when he saw it in theatres so he is under no illusions that he is not a huge nerd. Has he ever made fun of incels? Incels are like, the English speaking world’s malignant equivalent of exactly that sort of embittered Otaku.
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Jul 2, 2019 16:58
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Ogmius815 posted:Has he ever made fun of incels? Incels are like, the English speaking world’s malignant equivalent of exactly that sort of embittered Otaku.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:03
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to the fifty different points correcting me on that audience shot in EoE I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm in the process of deleting it do not assassinate me with piledrivers and longinus spearing me cleanly from anus to mouth. For real that's what i had heard many years ago and thought that was a crazy idea, but the reality was ok only less cool.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:04
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Endorph posted:well, look at the fifth and sixth word of your second sentence and then look up what country anno is from "Anno, what do you think of 'Incels'?" "何" "Incels, the involuntary celibate?" "どこかに行って" "Please answer the question." "私をほっといて"
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Jul 2, 2019 17:12
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ArfJason posted:to the fifty different points correcting me on that audience shot in EoE I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm in the process of deleting it do not assassinate me with piledrivers and longinus spearing me cleanly from anus to mouth. The true Eva fan experience is being told conflicting things by every other fan.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:21
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Endorph posted:well, look at the fifth and sixth word of your second sentence and then look up what country anno is from So notwithstanding that he is Japanese it’s actually conceivable that he may have heard about social phenomena in the western world all things considered. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 17:26
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Ogmius815 posted:So notwithstanding that he is Japanese it’s actually conceivable that he may have heard about social phenomena in the western world all things considered. 私は40歳以上で、アニメーションスタジオを所有しています。あなたは私があいまいなアメリカのインターネット現象について知っていると思いますか？私はあなたの40歳のほとんどがそれについて知らないと思います。どんなチャンスがありますか？ I'm over 40 years old and own an animation studio. Do you think I know about an obscure, American internet phenomenon? I bet most of your 40 year olds don't know about it. What chance do I have?
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Jul 2, 2019 17:32
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I think the biggest realization for me on this rewatch is how much of a monster Misato (and Ritsuko for that matter) is. She cares about Shinji when it’s convenient for her, towards the end she tries to cheer him up by making a sexual advance, but throughout the whole series she’s been very cold and ordering him to get into the Eva again and again. Culminating with EoE where she convinces him one final time, without thinking about all of the hosed up poo poo he’s gone through. Shinji almost kills toji and then is ordered to kill Kaworu which just sends him on an awful mental breakdown. After his conversation with Misato, right after he kills Kaworu, Misato doesn’t even try to comfort him and this scares Shinji. Rei 3 is basically a whole new person and that scares Shinji too so the only person he can turn to that he knows is Asuka. Idk man it’s just so good. When I first watched eva all those years ago (this is my third rewatch I think) I was kinda upset about not learning more about the lore. But I feel like a lot of it is explained, you just need to work for it.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:38
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Ogmius815 posted:So notwithstanding that he is Japanese it’s actually conceivable that he may have heard about social phenomena in the western world all things considered. He could have, but why would he care. He cares about otakus because he is one.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:59
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I think the biggest realization for me on this rewatch is how much of a monster Misato (and Ritsuko for that matter) is. She cares about Shinji when it’s convenient for her, towards the end she tries to cheer him up by making a sexual advance, but throughout the whole series she’s been very cold and ordering him to get into the Eva again and again. Culminating with EoE where she convinces him one final time, without thinking about all of the hosed up poo poo he’s gone through. Shinji almost kills toji and then is ordered to kill Kaworu which just sends him on an awful mental breakdown. After his conversation with Misato, right after he kills Kaworu, Misato doesn’t even try to comfort him and this scares Shinji. Rei 3 is basically a whole new person and that scares Shinji too so the only person he can turn to that he knows is Asuka. I see Misato as an additional “don’t do this” example in the lesson on relating to and being intimate with other people. She’s kind of Shinji’s mirror image. While Shinji isolates himself from others and refuses to engage with them because of his fear of rejection, Misato refuses to acknowledge Shinji’s subjectivity and manipulates him throughout the show. She’s even aware of this and admits it to herself in literally the second episode. In this way Misato, who is far more socially adroit than Shinji, is equally lonely and miserable. I need to think a bit about how her relationship with Kaji fits here. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 18:07
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I have seen sentiments from some otaku that seem somewhat similar to incel talking points (eg complaints about '3d girls'). I think NGE's theme of running away from the problems that come from relationships with other people is pretty relevant to that mindset.
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Jul 2, 2019 18:14
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Ogmius815 posted:Has he ever made fun of incels? Incels are like, the English speaking world’s malignant equivalent of exactly that sort of embittered Otaku. i mean hikikomori are right there why would he know about our weird violent offshoot of that? edit: i know that hikikomori are not actually directly related to incels but there are very similar core issues, but this is America, so instead of just holing up and totally ignoring society our hosed-up weirdos take up arms (and cars) and go out and gently caress people up because our dumb country is founded on a core of violence DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 18:39
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i think that misato genuinely cares for shinji, might be misrememebering but she starts crying when he gets dissolved in the eva and even slaps ritsuko when she goes the pragmatic route and says "well, the priority is saving the eva not the pilot". doesnt excuse some of her behaviour but i think its more than just using him
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Jul 2, 2019 18:46
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misato is one of the few adults who tries, but like she really should not be responsible for children
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Jul 2, 2019 19:01
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DC Murderverse posted:i mean hikikomori are right there why would he know about our weird violent offshoot of that? Hasn't there been some recent cases of hikikomori actually going on stabbing sprees - or at least murdering people - too? I'm pretty sure I read something about a dude that killed his parents.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:08
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ArfJason posted:i think that misato genuinely cares for shinji, might be misrememebering but she starts crying when he gets dissolved in the eva and even slaps ritsuko when she goes the pragmatic route and says "well, the priority is saving the eva not the pilot". doesnt excuse some of her behaviour but i think its more than just using him This scene happens after that though: Shinji Ikari: Kaworu said he loved me. I’ve never heard such kindness before. He was like me. And he was like Ayanami. I liked him, too. Kaworu should have survived. He was much better than I am. Kaworu should have survived, not me! He deserved to live. Misato Katsuragi: No. The one who deserves to survive is the one who has the will to make it happen. He wished for death. He ignored his will to survive and chose to die for a false hope. Your survival is not a mistake, Shinji. Shinji Ikari: Misato, how can you be so cruel? She cares about Shinji yes but then she does poo poo like this
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Jul 2, 2019 19:08
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She's right, Kaworu really should have kept his head in the game.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:11
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The REAL Goobusters posted:This scene happens after that though:
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Jul 2, 2019 19:12
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He just killed a guy by squishing him using the evangelion. Shinji is way hosed up right now and this is what Misato decides to tell him in a very angry/aggressive tone.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:17
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The REAL Goobusters posted:This scene happens after that though:
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Jul 2, 2019 19:18
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Yeah that isn’t terribly manipulative on it’s own. It’s fairly bog standard you got to live on speech that a ton of shows have used
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Jul 2, 2019 19:19
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just finished watching the series again with my wife who's never seen it at all and generally isn't in to mecha. she hated the first half to 2/3rds but got really drawn in when all the weird poo poo started to happen. so of course she absolutely loved EoE despite not having a clue what was going on and asking a million questions. it also made me realize i don't actually know how or why i know a bunch of poo poo about Eva. a couple hours after the movie she randomly says "i think my favourite character is Misato, at least she tries not to be a shithead"
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Jul 2, 2019 19:20
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weast posted:Another way to think of this is that she is still struggling to deal with the death of Kaji and this response is as much a justification to herself about his death as it is trying to be there for Shinji at all. It’s still hosed up but there’s some layers to it. This is true. I just still think it’s hosed up since Shinji (who is 14 years old btw) is suffering through some of the most intense mental trauma and this is what he’s told??
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Jul 2, 2019 19:21
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The REAL Goobusters posted:This is true. I just still think it’s hosed up since Shinji (who is 14 years old btw) is suffering through some of the most intense mental trauma and this is what he’s told??
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Jul 2, 2019 19:27
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what did Aoba ever do to you???? also Fuyutsuki is like relatively normal, just tired and following orders
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Jul 2, 2019 19:40
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Million Ghosts posted:what did Aoba ever do to you???? also Fuyutsuki is like relatively normal, just tired and following orders Aoba didn't do anything but also like, was a nonentity in Shinji's life so
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Jul 2, 2019 19:51
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if you're gonna get on Prof Fuyutsuki for having a weird relationship with his grad student then boy academia will be a rough time for you. i actually have more empathy for Fuyutsuki than most characters, episode 21 basically shows him not having a choice but to be Gendo's right hand even though he hates the guy. he's the dude who shows up for work 20 minutes early every day despite loving hating his boss and just tries to keep it all from falling apart. obviously he knows at least a good amount of what Gendo's plan is and goes with it, but like i said i get the impression he's far more tired and worn down and just following orders than actively trying to fulfill Gendo's wacky ideas.
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Jul 2, 2019 20:03
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I mean academia is insanely hosed up and insanely toxic so I don’t get your point
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Jul 2, 2019 20:09
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that is my point?
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Jul 2, 2019 20:23
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I mean your point seems to be everyone’s toxic so he’s fine? Like I’m genuinely not sure what you where going for there
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Jul 2, 2019 20:25
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Million Ghosts posted:just finished watching the series again with my wife who's never seen it at all and generally isn't in to mecha. she hated the first half to 2/3rds but got really drawn in when all the weird poo poo started to happen. so of course she absolutely loved EoE despite not having a clue what was going on and asking a million questions. it also made me realize i don't actually know how or why i know a bunch of poo poo about Eva. a couple hours after the movie she randomly says "i think my favourite character is Misato, at least she tries not to be a shithead" I find this both wholesome and strangely intriguing that she hated everything except the weird poo poo.
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Jul 2, 2019 20:26
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