|
uggy posted:Folks mocked oocc for saying you just gotta backup your digital files, cause it’s inconvenient, but are unable to understand why having one app with all the restaurants is nice cause convenience. Except that's not at all what the reality looks like. Depending on where I am in the world (or even just this country) I have to use different apps to have the best (or even a reasonable) choice of restaurants and none of that is obvious other than "trying poo poo out." While there may be a marginal level of convenience gained in some things, the market fragmentation is actually making things worse overall.
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 03:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 16:01 |
|
|
Also, it doesn't seem like much of an upgrade from 9 years ago when I could pull up my local Philly cheesesteak place's website, click around on a menu, place an order and go pick it up or get it delivered. It all feels like the smallest incremental changes. I don't think they bothered to put it online, but a month or so ago I saw a beautiful time-filler piece on NBC's evening news about a remarkable new restaurant. You see, they hardly served anyone indoors. Instead they just sold through various apps and people could either get their food delivered or come pick it up. They marveled at this technological revolution and new style of restaurant as I screamed on the inside.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 03:42
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Yeah those floppies are honestly probably fine my dude. Yeah so how about you don't post about digital longevity until you can find me a way to recover the original drafts of the books on my shelf published in the 50s: 
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 03:53
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:they may as well sell bicycles Well, they're technically not selling them... https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1131727578920833024
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 03:59
|
|
|
Harik posted:Yeah so how about you don't post about digital longevity until you can find me a way to recover the original drafts of the books on my shelf published in the 50s: You just posted incomprehensible garbage. Would you care to rephrase that into something that makes sense? fishmech fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jul 3, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 04:02
|
|
|
Doggles posted:Well, they're technically not selling them... Ah, wow, a completely original idea that they had and isn't done by billions of different providers worldwide. The next step is electric scooters you can just drop off wherever, they're a big hit around Tel Aviv, although they and the motorized bicycles are increasing hazards for pedestrians.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 04:20
|
|
|
Motronic posted:By the time your smart phone that would run the app existed every delivery place had menus online. The post I had originally replied to had said they had no need for Uber eats because they had mass transit and such. I replied with a use case for why even in such a place there's a reason for such an app to exist. You telling me that actually I could have used Google maps, or MapQuest and searched "food near me" and compared menus is true, but it was p nice to have it all in one place. Especially because one part of the story I thought was clear was that I was high the whole time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 04:55
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:The post I had originally replied to had said they had no need for Uber eats because they had mass transit and such. I replied with a use case for why even in such a place there's a reason for such an app to exist. You telling me that actually I could have used Google maps, or MapQuest and searched "food near me" and compared menus is true, but it was p nice to have it all in one place. Especially because one part of the story I thought was clear was that I was high the whole time. No, that part of the story wasn't clear but it's also not a bad use case to build a business on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 05:17
|
|
|
Reading two posters argue against the fact that bitrot exists and technical obselence effectively makes data unreadable is making my head hurt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 06:04
|
|
|
CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Reading two posters argue against the fact that bitrot exists and technical obselence effectively makes data unreadable is making my head hurt. Wow and real life rot exists with books and vast swathes of them are literally unreadable by the average person. So how about you make a real point? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 06:09
|
|
|
Doggles posted:Have you ever wanted to eat out at a restaurant while paying an additional fee to Uber for some reason? Uber posted:"Delivery does not work for a quick bite. It actually takes a lot of time," Matviyenko said. I love this. Instead of putting in an order for delivery, continuing to do whatever can't wait and then eating when the food gets to you, you can waste time traveling to and from the restaurant. This guy has no idea what he is talking about. The favorable comparison for "dine-in" is with regular dining where you go, sit down and then order and wait for the food. The comparison with delivery makes no sense because you don't give a poo poo that the delivery guy has to return to the restaurant (or his house). This "dine-in" option isn't even particularly competitive with fast casual or fast food, where there is (usually) a small wait to order but you get your food immediately. This idea is exclusively useful for power lunchers (or whatever) who definitely want to leave the office/home for a meal but want to spend the minimum amount of time doing it. So I can see it working for lawyers, finance people, tech bros and other corporate office types if the local restaurants want to play (and don't already have a fast lunch-type option). I don't know how it might play out, because fewer people are going out to lunch these days.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 06:29
|
|
|
fishmech posted:You just posted incomprehensible garbage. Would you care to rephrase that into something that makes sense? jesus christ it's not that complicated fishmech, I still have books printed in the 50s on my book shelf. Trying to read the digital media from nearly 70 years ago requires specialized gear and beating lottery-winning levels of odds. Digital rots insanely fast. Cloud services evaporate. the march of time renders disk interfaces, then formats, then filesystems, then the very OS it was stored on obsolete. Even reading stuff from the mid 80s requires custom-built hardware and a lot of good luck that everything was stored in enough climate control over the decades and on good-quality media. You're not going to be able to read a NTFS formated SATA disk in 2080 without some digital archaeology. Anything flash-based won't last a decade. The books I have from the 50s will still be readable long after all my electronics are gone. fishmech posted:Wow and real life rot exists with books and vast swathes of them are literally unreadable by the average person. So how about you make a real point? Ok I guess even smaller concepts: You lose books if something really bad happens. Fires, floods, thefts. You keep digital if a miracle happens. Stop equating the two.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 07:04
|
|
|
CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Reading two posters argue against the fact that bitrot exists and technical obselence effectively makes data unreadable is making my head hurt.  Also, no mention of data getting corrupted for any number of myriad reasons.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 07:44
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Wow and real life rot exists with books and vast swathes of them are literally unreadable by the average person. So how about you make a real point? You really just dont even try to post a) in good faith or b) with any knowledge. quote:You're not going to be able to read a NTFS formated SATA disk in 2080 without some digital archaeology I have well stored disks formatted in NTFS that are IDE that I am already having issues with. Thankfully I dont rely on single backups and the data was also elsewhere. Every floppy disk is already a mess and just LOL if oyu think I can read them. CD's - Welll..... some work? But then again I'm not a complete idiot so I persistently swap formats and keep backups up to date. But every one of my books is perfectly fiiiiiiine no matter how old or abused. quote:Ok I guess even smaller concepts: I was thinking about "But if you actively curate your digital data" buuuut... yeah okay you have a point. It only takes one drop and the SATA drives are headcrashed. Or I dont power the SSD's. Or any dozen likely scenarios like the online provider goes out of business that lose everything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 07:48
|
|
|
Yes flash expiration and rot are the same fishmechhing thing god damnit
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 15:42
|
|
|
Dont CDs and DVD degrade insanely quickly off the top even without scratching of the underside? Besides the rapid obselence of the format, I mean
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 15:54
|
|
|
Unoriginal Name posted:Dont CDs and DVD degrade insanely quickly off the top even without scratching of the underside? Pressed CDs/DVDs aren't completely awful, but burnt stuff is really short lived.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 16:08
|
|
|
Yeah writeable CDs/DVDs use light-sensitive dye to work, so exposure to light eventually makes them unreadable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 16:27
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:The next step is electric scooters you can just drop off wherever, they're a big hit around Tel Aviv, although they and the motorized bicycles are increasing hazards for pedestrians.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 16:38
|
|
|
Cicero posted:Solution here is protected bike lanes/separated bike paths, which should exist basically everywhere anyway. They’re still a hazard when people throw them down and leave them wherever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 16:48
|
|
|
Harik posted:jesus christ it's not that complicated fishmech, I still have books printed in the 50s on my book shelf. Trying to read the digital media from nearly 70 years ago requires specialized gear and beating lottery-winning levels of odds. Absolute nonsense. The digital media of 70 years ago is paper with holes in it (card or tape type) that you can literally read yourself. Harik posted:Digital rots insanely fast. Cloud services evaporate. the march of time renders disk interfaces, then formats, then filesystems, then the very OS it was stored on obsolete. Harik posted:
"it's impossible to read this because someone made popular open source hardware to read it" sure is a weird argument. Also like, I've got plenty of 5.25 inch floppies my mom was using in college in the early 80s that spent about 3/4 of the time since then in regular storage bins in crawlspaces or attics or outside sheds over the course of moves. That means temps building to well over 120 F or dropping below -30 F on the way, let alone all the humidity variation. You will definitely be able to read an NTFS formatted SATA disk in 2080 as much as you can read a similarly commodity paperback from now then. I've personally got plenty of flash media that's still functional from the late 90s so gently caress off with your "everything's broken" chicken littling. You don't need loving miracles for digital documents to survive my dude. Especially as time proceeds. And that's merely if you're some kind of idiot who insists on leaving the data in question in a single basket.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 16:55
|
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:They’re still a hazard when people throw them down and leave them wherever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 17:10
|
|
|
Doggles posted:Well, they're technically not selling them... oh ffs, there's already too many bloody rentabikes clogging up the pavements. at least the boris bikes have docks, i almost dropped the bins the other day, tripping over a Lime bike that someone had just randomly left on the ground in front of my flats.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 17:12
|
|
|
lol at the idea of anything lasting for all time
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 17:32
|
|
|
I'm skeptical of this, but it's an interesting idea. The 1,000 year DVD is here https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-1000-year-dvd-is-here/ How does it work? The key is a writable layer that, unlike existing writable DVDs, uses an inorganic mineral layer to store the data. The laser hits that layer and burns a physical hole in it. Because it is physically burnt into that inorganic mineral layer of the DVD media, it cannot and will not shift or change over time. The layer will last as long as the disc's tough polycarbonate plastic. What you need to know These discs cost about three dollars apiece. The Blu-ray versions will cost about three times that. The DVDs are available now, with the Blu-ray versions expected this summer. Both are from Ridata, a large manufacturer of optical and other media. Not every DVD burner is warranteed to successfully burn these desks. Current LG burners are, with more vendors to follow. Stay tuned for more vendor announcements
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 18:03
|
|
|
VideoGameVet posted:The layer will last as long as the disc's tough polycarbonate plastic. As long as you keep it out of sunlight then. Still, does sound a lot more durable than the usual write-able discs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 18:14
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Absolute nonsense. Magnetic tape was first used as recording in 1951. 68 years ago. Punch cards were used to program, not as data storage. The rest of your insipid crap has already been addressed as false. Once again you just dont know a thing you are talking about and you are posting in bad faith. Yes I know its Fishmech and I shouldnt reply to his crap. I apologise
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 20:16
|
|
|
Let us debate and discuss the definition of digital media 70 years ago and settle this question once and for all!
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 20:20
|
|
|
If the data on my punch card is defined by where the punch holes are, then as the card rots away, I am not losing data but gaining EXTRA data. It's bitgrowth instead of rot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 20:43
|
|
|
ryonguy posted:As long as you keep it out of sunlight then. Still, does sound a lot more durable than the usual write-able discs. They could do it with glass. Glass 'Century' CD's were a thing a few decades ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 22:12
|
|
|
CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Magnetic tape was first used as recording in 1951. 68 years ago. Punch cards were used to program, not as data storage. From 1980 to 1982 I was a game developer for the popular computers of the day (Atari 800, Apple II etc.). The cassette tapes and floppies were less than reliable. I did at one point, dialing into UNH's DEC-110, backed up the source for a game onto punched cards.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2019 22:15
|
|
|
CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Magnetic tape was first used as recording in 1951. 68 years ago. Punch cards were used to program, not as data storage. This is very incorrect, punch cards and paper tape were in fact used for data storage, particularly that which didn't need to stay readily accessible. Also surely you understand that something being first used at one time meant that other methods were used for quite a while after? It's not like they just shut off the existing equipment, or that every new customer was shelling out for the latest storage technology. There was also singificant pressure to shift data that wasn't immediately needed off to alternate storage methods even when magtape was common, as those tapes were still quite expensive and it was a priority to erase parts as you went (see also the analog equivalent with how tons of BBC content is/was missing in its origin country outside of home recordings). Not sure why you're interested in lying about computing history like this, you seem like someone who went to a museum once and that's the extent of your understanding.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2019 04:29
|
|
|
fishmech posted:This is very incorrect, punch cards and paper tape were in fact used for data storage One of my mom's first jobs was doing data entry into the brand new hospital computers in like the late 60s and her particular role was matching patient case files to find people with mirror image diagnoses. Like if you could enter 'broken bone' as 1011 and "child birth" was 1101 the same card would work run through correctly or flipped backwards. And somehow this saved a huge amount of time to run 100 cards through, then lift the whole thing out, turn all the cards around then just run it again with all the cards backwards. ( I'm unclear on the details of how this worked exactly, I don't imagine they were finding palindrome names or anything. )
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2019 04:50
|
|
|
fishmech posted:
When you try to engage in good faith I will bother expanding on a quick shitpost point and any history actually using paper and tape for mainframes that will show Im the one that belongs in a museum VideoGameVet posted:From 1980 to 1982 I was a game developer for the popular computers of the day (Atari 800, Apple II etc.). The cassette tapes and floppies were less than reliable. I did at one point, dialing into UNH's DEC-110, backed up the source for a game onto punched cards. Now on the other hand..... In case what I was more referring to is the more traditional punch card batching with output / storage to tape. The claim that Fishmech was trying to make was patently absurd esp with tapes being such a prevalent datastore pretty much from the beginning of Big Iron esp IBM formats. Sure punch and paper have been used alongside and I used it going back to the mid 1970s. gently caress sorting a pile of cards if some doofus dropped them..... part of my first job after high school was batch card processing and archiving. Which got interesting if you had to refer to something created three years prior. Annnnd oh boy do I hear you on the problems of cassettes. I really hated trying to work out my own Space Invaders or Joust clones all for ten minute attempts to save go wrong. I think I even have some of those tapes around....now I kinda wonder if the old Microbees still boot? I know my old Apple II disks are unreadable thinking of bitrot
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2019 07:02
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Not sure why you're interested in lying about computing history like this, you seem like someone who went to a museum once and that's the extent of your understanding. as opposed to you, who scans wikipedia and that's the extent of yours?
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2019 07:07
|
|
|
bad posts ahead!!! posted:as opposed to you, who scans wikipedia and that's the extent of yours? no, see, going to a museum is cheating.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2019 07:34
|
|
|
Mister Facetious posted:And people think Ubisoft invented bullshots... But even though they try their best to hide it, you can still clearly see there's only half a slice of cheese on that burger.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2019 09:15
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Absolute nonsense. The digital media of 70 years ago is paper with holes in it (card or tape type) that you can literally read yourself. That picture that was posted up thread? That's an IBM 350 magnetic hard disk platter. Circa 1956. You're about to be a goddamn pedant again and claim that was only 63 years ago, I can feel it in my bones. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Jul 4, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2019 09:34
|
|
|
I like to think that fishmech retired from posting and has an NLP model making his posts these days. The objective function of the model is to maximize the number of words expanded on responding to its posts
shrike82 fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Jul 4, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2019 09:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 16:01 |
|
|
CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:When you try to engage in good faith I will bother expanding on a quick shitpost point and any history actually using paper and tape for mainframes that will show Im the one that belongs in a museum Yeah no once again you're just plain eliding vast amounts of how data was stored because you're trying to build a false narrative of "everything was magnetic and now no one can use it". Which is really weird to do, especially when talking about the equipment of 70 years ago. You're for some reason choosing to read "70 years ago" as "1970s" judging by the arguments you think you're making. Among other things, IBM doesn't even start selling/leasing magnetic tape storage for their computer systems until 1952 with the IBM 726 - and continues to supply new and existing computing installations with paper-only bulk input and storage for quite a while afterwards. UNIVAC systems had been introduced in 1951 with magnetic tape storage, but had much less installs at the start. Liquid Communism posted:That picture that was posted up thread? That's an IBM 350 magnetic hard disk platter. Circa 1956. Do you have a point here? The IBM 350 was also a massively expensive new device at the time and tons of computing sites of the era would not be using it. It would also be used in conjunction with passing off data to other formats. fishmech fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 4, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2019 16:35
|
|