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It's a series where a vagina the size of Australia appears on screen tho
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Jul 11, 2019 15:14
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*scene of son inside phallic shaped object penetrating a vagina on his mother's forehead, with clitoris* this is about space and aliens
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Jul 11, 2019 15:22
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IIRC, isn't the nape of a woman's neck quite heavily eroticised in traditional Japanese art and literature? Because that certainly adds an extra layer to the whole entry plug situation.
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Jul 11, 2019 15:32
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I remember a lot of fan pages citing the bit about "In the Kaballahbible, the seat of the soul is the back of the neck, known in an area now described by medicine as the XYZ Vertebrae as mentioned in Episode 4.5, at exactly 12:20 by RITSUKO AKAGI. This is why the eva pilots are able to synchronize with the soulless evas!"
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Jul 11, 2019 15:37
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FilthyImp posted:I remember a lot of fan pages citing the bit about "In the Kaballahbible, the seat of the soul is the back of the neck, known in an area now described by medicine as the XYZ Vertebrae as mentioned in Episode 4.5, at exactly 12:20 by RITSUKO AKAGI. This is why the eva pilots are able to synchronize with the soulless evas!" I mean, they might be going for that, but since this is Eva, my money's on the sex answer being the main answer.
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Jul 11, 2019 15:45
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I mean, yeah Eva draws from the Kabbalah constantly. The tree of Life is in every single episode (and Gendos office). Sure, Evangelion isnt a puzzle to be solved but its so clear that Anno went down the 1995 version of a Wikipedia hole trying to learn more about how brains work, psychoanalysis and how religion and mysticism tie into those. I can't blame people for trying to connect those pieces. The Kabbalah is neat, no need to act like it's this deeply obscure, unspellable text Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 15:46
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It's both. It's the Kabbalah thing and the sex thing. it's not quite right to say "Misato tries to have sex with Shinji" because it's more that she's hosed up and thinks that the only way she can offer comfort to anyone is with her body which changes the framing somewhat. Shinji then recoils and doesn't want to live there anymore, which isn't a thing you normally do over someone touching your hand/sorry I can't really help you with this (tbf though it's Eva, doing the "normal" thing isn't always what happens). afaik its also official from Gainax that's what is going on so take it up with those jokers for making that the content of the scene I guess.
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Jul 11, 2019 17:25
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HobbitGrease posted:25. You're thinking of the college days scene? Not sure if that's about the propositioning or more about her 'dirty' side in general. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 17:27
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Eva loves its symbolism, both subtle and explicit And it certainly works, since we're still picking apart things over two decades later... 
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Jul 11, 2019 18:12
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It's less explicit than I remember - in one sequence you see Misato touching Shinji's hand while he shouts for her to stop, then Misato says she hates herself and three characters pile on and call her a whore. The implication that she was making a sexual advance and hates herself for it seems really obvious to me but I guess it's not quite stated. Is this one of those things supported by the text or from comments from staff/writers? I can't think of any other series that ever generated such insane levels of speculation (or has been for 20+ years at least) and now later all of it is shaped and viewed from such a wide lens of perspectives and other Eva material, official, fanmade whatever and seems like at best a contradictory clusterfuck.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:25
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this is the first time I've seen anyone say that wasn't what was happening in that scene...how else could you read it? Not that she did have sex with him, but as far as her suggesting it, that's totally what is happening. e: she loving kisses him in EoE and says "there's more when you get back" before dying. It's not really one of those things the show tries to leave hanging a mystery. e: my partner was watching for the first time and we never went back to discuss if anything else but that was happening. She groaned and said "oh god, Misato, no..." Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 18:27
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For whatever it's worth, the first-timer person who I've been watching Eva with turned to me during that scene and said "Wait, did Misato just proposition Shinji?" We're also about to hit 3.0.  HobbitGrease posted:(According to Evageeks, the Newtype Filmbook written with Gainax says right out that she was offering her body to him.) IIRC, that Filmbook also says that Shinji's smile at the end of NGE is because he's accepted Instrumentality. Which isn't a judgment on it either way, just something I found interesting because I've always felt that was how the TV series was putting it.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:29
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Yeah, it's one of the moments where Misato slips really hard. Like, it's still a "What the hell, Major?!" moment, but given everything that has transpired when that moment happens, you almost pity Misato because, honestly, she's almost as traumatized as Shinji.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:18
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Wark Say posted:Yeah, it's one of the moments where Misato slips really hard. Like, it's still a "What the hell, Major?!" moment, but given everything that has transpired when that moment happens, you almost pity Misato because, honestly, she's almost as traumatized as Shinji. For me it marks one of the touch-off points to them all becoming at least temporarily "one" because that's totally the "oh gently caress, the adults are falling apart, this is all over..." moment. By the time the JDF is storming NERV in EoE they all feel like children confused and unsure of what to do, or even of consequence. They are all super ready for their greatest wishes to come down in Rei form and take them somewhere warm. Kaji is the only one of those that we didn't really have enough information on to get an idea of where he was coming from, or what his problems were. He's just a bag of ugly male traits presented as is. Misato is to me one of the better (best?) characters upon this rewatching. She's the model for a slightly progressed Shinji, who still has a long way to go.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:31
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Peacoffee posted:this is the first time I've seen anyone say that wasn't what was happening in that scene...how else could you read it? Not that she did have sex with him, but as far as her suggesting it, that's totally what is happening. It's possible to comfort someone with human contact without sex happening. If she'd hugged him while saying it, would we be having this discussion? The "we'll do the rest when you get back" is super blatant, but touching his hand and saying "this is all I can do for you" doesn't automatically go into ero-doujin territory.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:43
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One of the most unbelievable parts of Eva is that no one thought to try sexual bribery as a way to get Shinji into the robot until EOE
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Jul 11, 2019 19:49
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Paracelsus posted:It's possible to comfort someone with human contact without sex happening. If she'd hugged him while saying it, would we be having this discussion? This is my thought also. Look, I’m not saying she didn’t proposition him, I’m just saying I’m not sure it’s as clear as orthodoxy holds.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:56
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Intel&Sebastian posted:One of the most unbelievable parts of Eva is that no one thought to try sexual bribery as a way to get Shinji into the robot until EOE I can't help but wonder if the higher-ups were going for something like that by putting Asuka in Shinji's house. Peacoffee posted:For me it marks one of the touch-off points to them all becoming at least temporarily "one" because that's totally the "oh gently caress, the adults are falling apart, this is all over..." moment. By the time the JDF is storming NERV in EoE they all feel like children confused and unsure of what to do, or even of consequence. They are all super ready for their greatest wishes to come down in Rei form and take them somewhere warm. Kaiji just wants to know what the gently caress is going on and what this conspiracy bullshit is all about, and inveigles himself with every single faction who could provide him with answers. What makes him interesting is how cheerfully self-destructive he is about it. It casts an intriguing light on his habit of sabotaging his relationships through blatant, overt philandering, and on Misato's comment that he's far too much like her own father (who also got himself killed in pursuit of knowledge). The death drive is strong with this one.
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Jul 11, 2019 20:03
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Right I never saw the hand thing as sex but I saw the EoE thing as she knew she was dying and she needed to motivate him to get in the robot so she used the last thing she could think of and that she wouldn't be there to fulfill her end of the deal
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Jul 11, 2019 20:05
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Kaji likes making out with women without their consent and lording having had sex with them in public in front of children, he sucks His relationship with Misato is interesting because Kaji is a bad person and Misato knows this and sometimes we love bad people. Like her father, Misato doesn't know if she hates or loves Kaji, but still seeks to separate herself from him
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Jul 11, 2019 20:10
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Frankly I'm still shocked that someone in this thread apparently couldn't get why Shinji reacted so strongly after killing Kowaru. Like even ignoring all the other poo poo going on, he still killed someone for the first time. Someone who was important to Shinji in some way. Like that alone isn't enough to cause years of trauma, let alone being mopey for a few days lmao
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Jul 11, 2019 20:35
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Paracelsus posted:It's possible to comfort someone with human contact without sex happening. If she'd hugged him while saying it, would we be having this discussion? Well I wasn't talking about all the times there's human contact without sex happening. In this case it's human contact in an effort (however weak) to initiate something intimate and inappropriate. I mean if someone's reacted badly to you trying to hold their hand in the past, it wasn't because of hand holding. and yeah, a hug would have been different. Lots of people who are friends give each other hugs, they don't tend to lay their hand over someone else's while they sit on a bed together. If she'd done something good instead of something bad then, yes, the discussion would have probably changed. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 20:49
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Paracelsus posted:It's possible to comfort someone with human contact without sex happening. If she'd hugged him while saying it, would we be having this discussion? This isn't "HobbitGrease thinks Misato was propositioning Shinji because she touched her hand! Eva fans think light contact is propositioning! Ho ho!" poo poo like some assholes were saying, and I'm not saying this is something completely unambiguous because nothing in Eva really is. This is just how I read it based on the other elements going into the scene (the weird cut beforehand with the chair and Shinji's crotch dead-center, the possible Chekhov's gun from the "funny" conversation with Ritsuko in episode 2) and out of the scene (Shinji's reaction, his fear of Misato and his running away from the apartment, possibly Misato's Instrumentality scene). It's not supposed to be something sexy or like a doujin. It's supposed to be something tragic and gross: two characters unable to totally connect and comfort each other on an emotional level, so one disastrously tries to comfort the only way she knows how and causes even bigger problems.
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Jul 11, 2019 20:50
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Peacoffee posted:and yeah, a hug would have been different. Lots of people who are friends give each other hugs, they don't tend to lay their hand over someone else's while they sit on a bed together. If she'd done something good instead of something bad then, yes, the discussion would have probably changed. I don’t think the hand touching is as clearly distinct from hugging as you suggest. My mom has a habit that I find annoying of touching my hands when she makes a point while we are talking. I assure you she is not coming on to me when this occurs.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:11
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Ogmius815 posted:I don’t think the hand touching is as clearly distinct from hugging as you suggest. My mom has a habit that I find annoying of touching my hands when she makes a point while we are talking. I assure you she is not coming on to me when this occurs. Just to engage with this then, how do you read Shinji's response in that moment? I mean what is the driving force behind his strong response. Ignoring what her intentions were. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 21:20
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Ogmius815 posted:I don’t think the hand touching is as clearly distinct from hugging as you suggest. My mom has a habit that I find annoying of touching my hands when she makes a point while we are talking. I assure you she is not coming on to me when this occurs. I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume that your mom isn't a deeply depressed alcoholic womanchild that introduces herself by objectifying her body and casually jokes about molesting minors over the phone. Remember when she said that to Ritsuko in ep 2? That was a thing. I didn't see the scene as her coming on to him when I first saw it as a teenager but rewatching as an adult it jumped at me as obvious. It wasn't a big surprise because of her last words to him in EoE, but it's not difficult to see it for what it is after the context of her teen and college years Ritsuko gives us. Misato is a person that covers up her inability to socialize normally using a sexy party girl facade even around her close friends. It makes sense she would think this is the only thing she can do to comfort him without understanding how the attempt would make things worse.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:38
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Everyone knows holding hands is the second-worst sexual act you can possibly perform on a person First one's hotly debated, but it might be eye contact or being within the same timezone as someone else
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Jul 11, 2019 21:41
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The character I’m mostly conflicted about is Ritsuko. I want to like her. For most of the show she seems so normal in comparison with literally all the other characters. But then it turns out she’s all caught up in Gendo’s weird tractor beam and she’s directly involved with all the horrifying things happening at NERV.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:51
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Peacoffee posted:Just to engage with this then, how do you read Shinji's response in that moment? I mean what is the driving force behind his strong response. Ignoring what her intentions were. He doesn’t want to be comforted. His friend died. You’ve never refused to be comforted when in distress?
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Jul 11, 2019 21:52
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Expect My Mom posted:Kaji likes making out with women without their consent and lording having had sex with them in public in front of children, he sucks I still think the only woman he's actually had relations with is Misato. Sure he acts like a slut with Ritsuko but that's just for show. Same way Misato acts in front of Shinji, etc.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:54
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Ogmius815 posted:The character I’m mostly conflicted about is Ritsuko.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:54
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Has anything ever shown what Misato and crew were studying in college? Were they all in Gendo’s Metaphysical Biology department?
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Jul 11, 2019 21:57
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Ethiser posted:Has anything ever shown what Misato and crew were studying in college? Were they all in Gendo’s Metaphysical Biology department? No but their parents were.
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Jul 11, 2019 22:00
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Ethiser posted:Has anything ever shown what Misato and crew were studying in college? Were they all in Gendo’s Metaphysical Biology department? "College" was probably just a thinly veiled recruitment process for Gehirn->NERV and other UN organizations at the time. And probably still is at the time of the show considering Asuka's college education.
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Jul 11, 2019 22:04
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next motherfucker to call Kaworu Kowaru gets gatted
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Jul 11, 2019 22:20
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klapman posted:next motherfucker to call Kaworu Kowaru gets gatted How do you feel about Kaoru
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Jul 11, 2019 22:21
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Wark Say posted:Yeah, it's one of the moments where Misato slips really hard. Like, it's still a "What the hell, Major?!" moment, but given everything that has transpired when that moment happens, you almost pity Misato because, honestly, she's almost as traumatized as Shinji. i like how she then goes to pen pen for comfort and upon being ignored realizes it's not that she feels particularly attracted to anyone, but that "Anyone will do", which is practically the same thing asuka chastises shinji for in the kitchen scene during EoE
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Jul 11, 2019 22:22
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klapman posted:next motherfucker to call Kaworu Kowaru gets gatted for real
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Jul 11, 2019 22:22
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ArfJason posted:i like how she then goes to pen pen for comfort and upon being ignored realizes it's not that she feels particularly attracted to anyone, but that "Anyone will do", which is practically the same thing asuka chastises shinji for in the kitchen scene during EoE I've always read Shinji's response as being informed by his knowledge that she is a lot like him. He knows what she's doing, like others have said the first episode establishes this part of the relationship. Ogmius815 posted:I don’t think the hand touching is as clearly distinct from hugging as you suggest. My mom has a habit that I find annoying of touching my hands when she makes a point while we are talking. I assure you she is not coming on to me when this occurs. your mother is trying to turn you into her Sexual Pen-Pen, hth Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 22:32
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Peacoffee posted:and yeah, a hug would have been different. Lots of people who are friends give each other hugs, they don't tend to lay their hand over someone else's while they sit on a bed together. If she'd done something good instead of something bad then, yes, the discussion would have probably changed. See, to me a hug is a more intimate act than putting her hand on top of his, it's just also a clearer social cue that we associate with comfort. Is there a more tentative form of physical contact than hand-to-hand? It's at full extremity from the body core and probably the part of the body you have the most control over. The point of the scene always felt like it was that he was recoiling from the simplest and most distant form of human contact, not that the contact itself was wrong. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to interpret the scene the way you do, but it never occured to me to do so and I've never seen that interpretation until this thread, whereas the elevator sendoff had people talking about it back in the late 90s.
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Jul 11, 2019 22:34
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