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fishmech posted:You don't get them anywhere, and all the original ones will stop working in 5 years due to 3g shutdown.  Is it possible to activate an old Nokia on a modern cellphone network? IIRC they didn't have SIMs.e: I was all excited about the new Nokia, but it still has menus and it still has the two mysterious (to my mom) buttons above the keyboard. drat it. Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jul 13, 2019 |
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Jul 13, 2019 16:48
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Arsenic Lupin posted:My mom is 88 and has dementia. In five years she's not likely to be using a cellphone any more, one way or the other. The GSM ones had SIMs, and those will still work (providing it's not locked to some carrier that may or may not exist anymore). If it's old enough to be an AMPS phone......welp, nah, not so much. That network doesn't exist anymore.
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Jul 13, 2019 17:09
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Motronic posted:The GSM ones had SIMs, and those will still work (providing it's not locked to some carrier that may or may not exist anymore). If it's old enough to be an AMPS phone......welp, nah, not so much. That network doesn't exist anymore. AT&T cut off GSM service as of mid-2017. T-Mobile's final closure of GSM service comes at the end of 2020, but they've already stopped new activation outside of specific corporate situations and they've been shrinking the guaranteed service areas leading up to it. Some small time regional carriers may still support GSM beyond these points, but they're rare and patchy, especially as a lot of 2G regional networks had been built around CDMA. And for considering old CDMA phones and trying to go that way for 2G service - Sprint is totally shutting 2G service at the end of 2021 and 3G service at the end of 2022. Verizon halted new 2G or 3G activation as of last June, and both 2G and 3G service is being shut off at the end of 2019. US Cellular and the other semi-major regional CDMA networks are setting shutoff dates in 2020 and 2021 usually. Also AT&T plans provides no guarantee of 3G service past 12/31/2021 (though they won't be immediately removing all 3G network equipment/service at that date, your ability to use it is entirely at your own risk of losing service then). T-Mobile currently has no announced date to end 3G service but its expected to announce one in a year or so. Morbus posted:This is very different from the situation that existed 50, 100, or 150 years ago, when the near totality of mankind's records weren't guaranteed to evaporate in a few decades if not actively maintained or transferred to special archival media. Leaving aside your other bullshit, once again, throughout all of human history we have needed to constantly re-copy things to maintain access them, outside of very particular archival conditions. There is nothing fuckin unprecedented here. There was nothing special about 50 or 100 or 150 years ago where "the near totality" of records wasn't at extremely high risk of vanishing under typical conditions of life in human civilization. And we already have vast archival operations that aren't relying on bargain basement storage media in the first place. In general if you wish to preserve your stuff on commodity media anyway, toss it in a well maintained cave archive for minimal temperature and humidity related problems and it will be fine.
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Jul 13, 2019 17:56
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This thread is starting to give me bitrot.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:03
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fishmech posted:... I can find an intact paper document from 1917. If I unpower and store a disk drive or SSD today, no matter the storage conditions, it will be impossible to recover any data from it 100 years from now. This is totally inescapable. The data just won't be there any more. And It's not about "bargain basement" storage media or whatever. No flash or HDD product in existence will retain it's data for decades. They just can't, for reasons I explained carefully in the previous post which you dismissed as "bullshit" instead of, I dunno, spending 15 minutes on sci-hub or even wikipedia. In fact, "enterprise" storage often has worse data retention than client devices, since data in enterprise settings is expected to be duplicated across multiple devices anyway.
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Jul 13, 2019 19:50
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Morbus posted:I can find an intact paper document from 1917. If I unpower and store a disk drive or SSD today, no matter the storage conditions, it will be impossible to recover any data from it 100 years from now. This isn't true, no matter how much you say it. Morbus posted:No flash or HDD product in existence will retain it's data for decades. They just can't, This is trivially disproven by the fact that I have 2 decade old flash storage that I've taken data off just fine, and 3 decade old hard drives that are the same. fishmech fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jul 13, 2019 |
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Jul 13, 2019 20:05
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Morbus posted:I can find an intact paper document from 1917. If I unpower and store a disk drive or SSD today, no matter the storage conditions, it will be impossible to recover any data from it 100 years from now. This is totally inescapable. The data just won't be there any more. I think you'll find that no, and furthermore, I've poo poo myself. Therefore, you're wrong.
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Jul 13, 2019 20:07
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As usual fishmech is wrong, but engaging with him is also wrong. I know for a fact though that if I want to be almost absolutely certain that I want information to be preserved beyond 100 years, I just need to put it on paper and seal it away in the darkest and lowest humidity environment possible. Paper has proven itself capable of this already. As of this moment, I have no guarantee whatsoever that any information I put onto any single digital medium available to me today will last as long. What digital storage medium do we even have aside from paper punch cards that have even existed for more than 100 years to this point?
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Jul 13, 2019 20:27
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If you want a piece of information to be preserved indefinitely the only surefire way to preserve it is to somehow work it into an argument between Fishmech and OOC so they will still be posting about it at the heat death of the universe.
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Jul 13, 2019 20:33
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paperwind posted:As usual fishmech is wrong, but engaging with him is also wrong. I know for a fact that are a wide variety of digital storage media that will also be fine in 100 years of proper storage. Your insistence that nothing can last which is magnetic or flash or whatever is quite funny because you can go and buy those things in random thrift stores and ebay quite easily. And yeah lol, you're basically just claiming it's impossible for digital things to last because digital things aren't old enough yet, wow. By that standard you can't be sure anything being put on paper now will stick around, since we're using different paper manufacturing methods and different inks.
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Jul 13, 2019 21:14
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lol at goons thinking it’s impossible to find paper from 1917
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Jul 13, 2019 21:32
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ryonguy posted:I've replied in ways you people wouldn't believe. Bullshit from a liar on dead forums. I read endless replies that all bounce off my thick as gently caress skull. All those words are useless, like water off a ducks back. Time to post.
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Jul 13, 2019 22:09
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Absurd Alhazred posted:This thread is starting to give me bitrot. And how.
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Jul 13, 2019 23:00
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This thread has high redundancy and is thus resistant to bitrot.
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Jul 13, 2019 23:22
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fishmech posted:I know for a fact that are a wide variety of digital storage media that will also be fine in 100 years of proper storage. What was it like to live through WWI and/or be time traveller
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Jul 13, 2019 23:57
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Physical books typically don’t last very long. If you have very old book that is cool but it’s survivorship bias and every year less and less of that print run of the book still exist unless they are being actively preserved. I know this post is from awhile ago, but I wanted to thank OOCC for teaching me about book survivorship bias. I'm nearly 40 and have books dating back to my teenage years, also my mom's library of books dating back to her teenage years, and I even some books dating back to the 40s from my dead aunt's library. Which in the grand scheme of thing isn't a long time at all, but here they all are. Meanwhile I've lost thousands of songs, comic books, movies, tv shows, books, and even personally written things from a dozen computers over my lifetime. My bad for not diligently backing things up, but you know, the books are still there. But now I know the err of my ways.
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Jul 14, 2019 00:44
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Four thousand years in the future, all that will remain are the digital archives of DeviantArt's Naruto/MLP slash-art section. "By the gods," we'll say. "If our ancestors could produce works such as these, perhaps it is just fine that the rest has been lost to the sands!"
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Jul 14, 2019 01:02
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1glitch0 posted:I know this post is from awhile ago, but I wanted to thank OOCC for teaching me about book survivorship bias. I'm nearly 40 and have books dating back to my teenage years, also my mom's library of books dating back to her teenage years, and I even some books dating back to the 40s from my dead aunt's library. Which in the grand scheme of thing isn't a long time at all, but here they all are. Sounds like your books generally go back about one generation. Where are all the books from your grandparents and great grandparents and great great grandparents? Why aren't you listing them? Why does it sound like you only have "some" books going back to your parents teenage years? In general sounds a lot like books dwindle out at a pretty steady pace, even if theoretically you could have kept one in a cave in a desert for 2000 years.
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Jul 14, 2019 01:05
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Sundae posted:Four thousand years in the future, all that will remain are the digital archives of DeviantArt's Naruto/MLP slash-art section. even better, the only image preserved well enough for restoration is my_little_holocaust.jpg
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Jul 14, 2019 01:05
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:even better, the only image preserved well enough for restoration is my_little_holocaust.jpg Well there's an image I never needed to know existed. 
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Jul 14, 2019 01:18
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fishmech posted:This isn't true, no matter how much you say it. Fishmech gonna win the Nobel prize for his groundshattering work re: superparamagnetism
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Jul 14, 2019 01:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Sounds like your books generally go back about one generation. Where are all the books from your grandparents and great grandparents and great great grandparents? Why aren't you listing them? Why does it sound like you only have "some" books going back to your parents teenage years? In general sounds a lot like books dwindle out at a pretty steady pace, even if theoretically you could have kept one in a cave in a desert for 2000 years. We have the books we have because we bought them. We ain't the library of loving congress. My known family relations only go back a generation or so. But I'm sure the books the older generations of my family owned didn't explode on the shelf or give you the blue screen of death or something. They're around. As just a normal guy who has lived in this time period I have found paper books to be much more reliable than digital books. Put a 2019 laptop in a cave in a desert for 2000 years and tell me if it pops up with Moby Dick.
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Jul 14, 2019 01:39
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In fairness, if I find a 2000-yr-old copy of Moby Dick, Melville's got one hell of a lot to explain.OOCC posted:Sounds like your books generally go back about one generation. Where are all the books from your grandparents and great grandparents and great great grandparents? Why aren't you listing them? Why does it sound like you only have "some" books going back to your parents teenage years? In general sounds a lot like books dwindle out at a pretty steady pace, even if theoretically you could have kept one in a cave in a desert for 2000 years. I know being a disingenuous little poo poo is kind of your thing, but people intentionally don't keep every piece of data that ever enters their lives. Data also has different degrees of priority in how seriously you treat/protect it, whether it's digital or not. I have books going back to when my family lived in Italy in the late 1800s, but that doesn't mean I've also retained every damned sci-fi novel I've ever read even though they can be more than a century younger. Sundae fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jul 14, 2019 |
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Jul 14, 2019 01:41
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1glitch0 posted:But I'm sure the books the older generations of my family owned didn't explode on the shelf or give you the blue screen of death or something. Good news! Neither does digital storage! Morbus posted:Fishmech gonna win the Nobel prize for his groundshattering work re: superparamagnetism The groundshattering work of observing magnetism does in fact last decades, such wow.
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Jul 14, 2019 01:50
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Sundae posted:I know being a disingenuous little poo poo is kind of your thing, but people intentionally don't keep every piece of data that ever enters their lives. Data also has different degrees of priority in how seriously you treat/protect it, whether it's digital or not. I have books going back to when my family lived in Italy in the late 1800s, but that doesn't mean I've also retained every damned sci-fi novel I've ever read even though they can be more than a century younger. So you are saying that the collection of paper books dwindle out at a pretty steady pace, even if theoretically you could have kept one in a cave in a desert for 2000 years. And that even a hundred years your ancestor's book collection is down to a few important ones and in a hundred years from now that collection might be down to nothing, then after that the whole world's collection of 1800s italian books will be in museum cases too rare and valuable to touch or read.
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Jul 14, 2019 05:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Anything, ever Please go play with your toys in your room. This is grown-up talking time.
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Jul 14, 2019 06:15
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fishmech posted:The groundshattering work of observing magnetism does in fact last decades, such wow. Jedec standards are for end of life - maximum erase cycles. If you threw one copy of your I, robot slash fanfic on an early flash drive yeah, it's likely to still be readable for a while yet. Any storage that's actually used for something won't have that property. Secondly you've somehow completely missed that integrated circuits have advanced in the past decade and are much smaller now. Smaller cells carry less charge each, and modern flash isn't single bit like back then, where detecting any charge was a 1. Now each cell holds one of 4, 8 or even 16 analog voltage levels slowly decaying - and their lifespan at first erase is already significantly lower than the early slc. Drives went the same way, with modern disks packing literally millions of bits in the space we used to use for one. There's no way fields that tiny remain readable offline for any significant amount of time.
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Jul 14, 2019 06:48
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Rent-A-Cop posted:If you want a piece of information to be preserved indefinitely the only surefire way to preserve it is to somehow work it into an argument between Fishmech and OOC so they will still be posting about it at the heat death of the universe. 
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Jul 14, 2019 07:02
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I realize that Fishmech's stupidity is great bait, but you don't have to respond to her. If it is too tempting, there is this magical button called "ignore button", that will save you from yourself.
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Jul 14, 2019 07:11
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Harik posted:How is it that you can be such a technophile yet have such limited knowledge about how things work? I don't have "limited" knowledge about it, that's how. Posting your big rant about how drives you can still read today can't possibly exist again doesn't change that. Come back here in 50 years and I'm sure you will find tons upon tons of drives from right now which are perfectly readable with cheap equipment of that future time. Particularly ones that were deliberately stored in favorable conditions.
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Jul 14, 2019 08:11
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The real tech nightmare are dilettantes with an open Wikipedia tab.
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Jul 14, 2019 09:34
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fishmech posted:I don't have "limited" knowledge about it, that's how. Posting your big rant about how drives you can still read today can't possibly exist again doesn't change that. 50 years from now humanity will be living in small bands across the world without access to electricity, praying to neptune that the waters stop enveloping them
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Jul 14, 2019 11:21
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Sundae posted:Please go play with your toys in your room. This is grown-up talking time. what?
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Jul 14, 2019 14:39
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fishmech posted:Come back here in 50 years  Xarn posted:you don't have to respond to her.
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Jul 14, 2019 18:17
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Harik posted:Agreed, I'll resume this argument in 50 years when new evidence becomes available Alas, you were right; 50 years from now, this thread/forum has been lost forever and the great argument was never settled.
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Jul 14, 2019 20:41
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Sundae posted:Alas, you were right; 50 years from now, this thread/forum has been lost forever and the great argument was never settled. It wont though, because this whole place is being backed up by one of the largest archiving services in the world, every last bit of it!
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Jul 14, 2019 20:52
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fishmech posted:It wont though, because this whole place is being backed up by one of the largest archiving services in the world, every last bit of it! Oh, good. I was worried for a second that future generations of sociologists would never get the chance to marvel at your posts. quote:wait what? shitposting aside if I've been misgendering fishmech I apologize. This too, by the way. I've been assuming you're a guy basically forever.
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Jul 14, 2019 21:06
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fishmech posted:It wont though, because this whole place is being backed up by one of the largest archiving services in the world, every last bit of it! Lol that you think the loc is still actively doing that.
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Jul 14, 2019 21:45
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quote:I don't have "limited" knowledge about it Exactly, you have absolutly zero knowledge and you keep proving it over and over again. You really are a bad faith poster and should always be treated as such.
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Jul 14, 2019 21:47
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Exactly, you have absolutly zero knowledge and you keep proving it over and over again. Please show your proof that all of the existing readable magnetic, flash, and other format data storage isn't actually readable.
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Jul 14, 2019 22:37
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