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Lambert posted:Yes, I like reading about short sellers losing their shirts because Wall Street idiots losing money is very entertaining. You are hoping to watch people who thought the stock price of tesla was going to go down cry? Why them specifically?
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Jul 16, 2019 22:59
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:You are hoping to watch people who thought the stock price of tesla was going to go down cry? Why them specifically? Because Wall Street idiots are more fun to laugh at than dubious reports of manufacturing issues that are either common in the car industry or don't matter at all.
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Jul 16, 2019 23:05
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Lambert posted:Because Wall Street idiots are more fun to laugh at than dubious reports of manufacturing issues that are either common in the car industry or don't matter at all. So do you own the Tesla or does your boss?
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Jul 16, 2019 23:49
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Trabisnikof posted:So do you own the Tesla or does your boss? Neither, and I detest Elon Musk. But I still like laughing at Wall Street idiots more.
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Jul 16, 2019 23:51
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This American Life did a fantastic episode years back on NUMMI where GM and Toyota teamed up to build GM cars with Toyota's methods. Early on they interview old GM workers who detail how stopping the line was trouble and cars left the line with known issues that had to be dealt with later. After Toyota brought in their system where an issue was addressed right away, the quality spiked with mostly the same UAW workforce. Best part is the plant closed in about 2010 and is now the Tesla Factory in Fremont CA.
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Jul 16, 2019 23:52
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Tesla bio weapon defense mode saved me from dying from smoke inhalation. Im indebted *dies of smoke inhalation from flaming tesla years later*
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Jul 17, 2019 00:38
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it never occurred to me before, but: teslas are cars for audophiles
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Jul 17, 2019 00:55
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Lambert posted:Because Wall Street idiots are more fun to laugh at than dubious reports of manufacturing issues that are either common in the car industry or don't matter at all. Lmao, silly me, I didn’t realize bumpers that fall off when they get wet Don’t Matter
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Jul 17, 2019 01:02
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Lambert posted:Neither, and I detest Elon Musk. But I still like laughing at Wall Street idiots more. Are you doing some "I'll be laughing when the price goes up and you guys all look like idiots" or are you using "short seller" as just some random stocks lingo generically?
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Jul 17, 2019 01:11
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Fly Molo posted:Lmao, silly me, I didn’t realize bumpers that fall off when they get wet Don’t Matter The point he was making - and that people with actual industry knowledge knows too well - that the issues Tesla have are in fact common across the entire industry and I can name half a dozen dumb gently caress things "established" car makers do that go by without comment, while every tiny bit of unsubstantiated report of a Tesla gets breathlessly reported over and over again. Like Subaru *literally* didn't weld the B-Pillars on the 2018 Ascent. They are recalling 2000ish Outbacks for faulty welds due to something didnt get cleaned. The BRZ is being recalled due to incorrect valve springs. Mercedes regularly have bumpers torn off in the rain or motors grenade. Want a new high performance Alfa? Better hope the diff doesn't explode, you wont get a replacement for at least a month. And oh hey Hyundai are having engines starve themselves of oil. Tape issues? LOL hi there GM, let alone the scandal of the faulty steering locks. BMW? Oil starvation issues, electronics issues. And god help your wallet fixing that out of warranty Or how about those dry plate DSG Ford Fiestas that randomly go into neutral and there has never been a fix found - and that issue was well known BEFORE the car was released? And while not specifically a car manufacturer issue the whole Takana airbag gently caress up is truly a gently caress up that might STILL take a decade to fix. Tesla are certainly below average quality but they are arent a unique disaster.... or even THAT much worse. Their logistics issues were pretty drat funny tho and a proper fuckup.
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Jul 17, 2019 01:52
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The point he was making - and that people with actual industry knowledge knows too well - that the issues Tesla have are in fact common across the entire industry and I can name half a dozen dumb gently caress things "established" car makers do that go by without comment, while every tiny bit of unsubstantiated report of a Tesla gets breathlessly reported over and over again. Did any other CEOs headbutt a car on the assembly line because they hate safety standards?
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Jul 17, 2019 03:20
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ryonguy posted:Did any other CEOs headbutt a car on the assembly line because they hate safety standards? In a industry that includes Chrysler, Ford and GM let alone the famed British car manufacturing sector and the so well known for being honest with diesel emissions VW along with such legendary caring CEO's like Roger Smith - what do you think? (There might be some sarcasm in the above)
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Jul 17, 2019 04:38
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The point he was making - and that people with actual industry knowledge knows too well - that the issues Tesla have are in fact common across the entire industry and I can name half a dozen dumb gently caress things "established" car makers do that go by without comment, while every tiny bit of unsubstantiated report of a Tesla gets breathlessly reported over and over again. And yet Tesla has so far managed to do all of the above while also finding novel ways to gently caress up like running a forklift through batteries and using them anyway.
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Jul 17, 2019 10:00
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Also, Tesla, a company which manufactures low single digit percentages of all cars made in North America had 75% of all reported worker injuries in the entire North American car industry. They are also famous for having their own in-house "clinics" that put workers back on the assembly line instead of treating them when they get injured, so they can cover up more injuries instead of reporting them.
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Jul 17, 2019 12:02
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The point he was making - and that people with actual industry knowledge knows too well - that the issues Tesla have are in fact common across the entire industry and I can name half a dozen dumb gently caress things "established" car makers do that go by without comment, while every tiny bit of unsubstantiated report of a Tesla gets breathlessly reported over and over again. Yeah but they make dozens of models each and most do not have. Tesla makes three models and they all have exciting failure modes.
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Jul 17, 2019 12:18
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Also Tesla models itself as pro-environment while making a significant percentage of their money selling credits to other car manufacturers. Every single smug Tesla driver is helping sell 2 ICE cars that don’t meet fuel standards.
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Jul 17, 2019 14:37
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The point he was making - and that people with actual industry knowledge knows too well - that the issues Tesla have are in fact common across the entire industry and I can name half a dozen dumb gently caress things "established" car makers do that go by without comment, while every tiny bit of unsubstantiated report of a Tesla gets breathlessly reported over and over again. Dude, they knowingly put perforated batteries in cars where you can’t open the doors if your battery lights on fire. Then SWAT’d the dude who blew the whistle, and turned off their system for tracking parts so no one could blow the whistle again. They’re much worse than any of the examples you just named. They are a uniquely horrible disaster, being run by a dude with no morals.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:26
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Fly Molo posted:They’re much worse than any of the examples you just named. They are a uniquely horrible disaster, being run by a dude with no morals. But short sellers are Wall Street! And Wall Street Bad! I just re-listened to the You Must Remember This episodes about the Manson murders, and there were a few points along the way where some idiot were rooting for Manson because Richard Nixon had said something bad about him and clearly Richard Nixon was bad so Manson has to be good. It feels like every generation has to re-learn that the enemy of your enemy is not automatically your friend.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:48
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LanceHunter posted:But short sellers are Wall Street! And Wall Street Bad! See: Glenn Greenwald.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:52
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LanceHunter posted:But short sellers are Wall Street! And Wall Street Bad! Yes, absolutely. It's fun to laugh at them when they lose their shirts.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:53
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So what would you have the world do to tesla? Whats the solution to goon moans about a goon who hit billionaire
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Jul 17, 2019 17:36
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Lambert posted:Yes, absolutely. It's fun to laugh at them when they lose their shirts. I literally still can't tell if you know what a short seller is and if you just picked a random word that sounds vaguely finance or if you actually have some specific thing about wanting to laugh when the tesla stock price goes up and all the haters and deniers get egg on their face.
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Jul 17, 2019 17:40
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:So what would you have the world do to tesla? Whats the solution to goon moans about a goon who hit billionaire Regulate, and fine them for their blatant incompetence and negligence. Also fire Elon and remove him from any company operations.
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Jul 17, 2019 17:41
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Regulate, and fine them for their blatant incompetence and negligence. Why not just liquidate the company entirely?
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Jul 17, 2019 17:49
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:So what would you have the world do to tesla? Whats the solution to goon moans about a goon who hit billionaire Should have considered ending their tax freebie money Until they stop producing car lubricated with worker blood anyway
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Jul 17, 2019 18:07
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Why not just liquidate the company entirely? Why punish the workers? Just make it an employee owned co-op.
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Jul 17, 2019 18:09
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Fly Molo posted:Dude, they knowingly put perforated batteries in cars where you can’t open the doors if your battery lights on fire. Then SWAT’d the dude who blew the whistle, and turned off their system for tracking parts so no one could blow the whistle again. Yeah everything that's come out about their quality practices is shocking, they're basically doing everything 100% wrong. Musk should be glad he hasn't let himself be snowed into the food/pharma space because I can't imagine they'd be any better at cGMP.
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Jul 17, 2019 18:16
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nvm
Lambert fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 18:20
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Why punish the workers? Just make it an employee owned co-op. I'm not convinced anything of that company can or should be salvaged. Just scorch the earth of Tesla and let the patents fall where they may.
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Jul 17, 2019 18:21
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https://twitter.com/mywifecameback/status/1151457621276278784
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Jul 17, 2019 18:42
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Still think Hyperloop (and Loop) are his worst ideas because politicians actually believe in the potential of these dumb concepts. But brain probes are certainly a great runner-up.
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Jul 17, 2019 18:55
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Why not just liquidate the company entirely? Why yes, I am an impossible optimist.
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Jul 17, 2019 19:02
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Lambert posted:Still think Hyperloop (and Loop) are his worst ideas because politicians actually believe in the potential of these dumb concepts. But brain probes are certainly a great runner-up. Okay lets say gently caress elon and the tunnel idea Is vacuum maglev still bad
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Jul 17, 2019 20:20
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Okay lets say gently caress elon and the tunnel idea It doesn't truly achieve anything useful over just running a regular maglev as have been in use for a few decades. And building a continuous vacuum chamber over hundreds to thousands of miles is a major hassle.
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Jul 17, 2019 20:24
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putting high speed trains in a low pressure tube is totally a great idea for a mars colony but a lot of musks ideas come from his persistent fantasy of being the Mars Colonizer Genius and he doesn't refactor those plans in any way regarding how practical they are to implement on earth in the next three decades with a finite budget
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Jul 17, 2019 20:27
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Evacuated tubes are complementary to Musk’s “electric cars will solve everything” world view. Trains benefit much less from evacuated tubes because they start out more efficient. Each carriage has a fraction of the drag an independent car would because it’s drafting in the slipstream of the carriage ahead of it.
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Jul 17, 2019 20:33
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Why punish the workers? Just make it an employee owned co-op. Undercapitilization is a perfectly valid reason to pierce the corporate veil in California. Cant wait until all of the workers homes are seized to pay for Tesla's debt.
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Jul 17, 2019 21:13
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Platystemon posted:Evacuated tubes are complementary to Musk’s “electric cars will solve everything” world view. What about at a 10x multiple of current traveling speed of maglev above ground or non vacuum
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Jul 17, 2019 21:40
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evobatman posted:Also, Tesla, a company which manufactures low single digit percentages of all cars made in North America had 75% of all reported worker injuries in the entire North American car industry. This is the "will not buy" thing for me. My family has a history of union organizing (Father's great uncle ran a major union for decades). Buying a car from a company that acts this way would be a betrayal.
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Jul 17, 2019 21:46
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:What about at a 10x multiple of current traveling speed of maglev above ground or non vacuum Probably not feasible in real-world application. Best to build out high-speed rail using established technology instead of pining for some extremely expensive pie-in-the-sky technology with severe usage limitations. One huge advantage high-speed rail has is that it can serve multiple purposes: Tracks can be used to run regional transit with more stops, and can be utilized for freight. This was a big consideration in the financing of the high speed line between Munich and Berlin that opened at the end of 2017: The fact it could be used to run freight as well. High speed rail can also integrate seamlessly with existing railway infrastructure. These considerations are the reason why Maglev is a dead-end technology as well. Lambert fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 21:53
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